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Member since: Fri Dec 10, 2010, 10:36 PM
Number of posts: 41,183

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Oh, thanks for telling us. Send him our love and wishes for healing... He's a favorite of mine:


He is a classic libertarian know it all, who holds Plato and Aristotle as 'significant thinkers.'

Here it is their defense of inequality. Both men lived at the top of a society built on the backs of slaves. They were in the leisure class with plenty of time to talk, like Murray.

I found the views of their idolized philosophers on slavery, and why they considered it a natural state for some people. Not them, or course. Also they lumped in all those conquered by war and all women as having been born to be slaves. And in their writings, they said should have no voice in their society, nor any right to decent treatment.

This was the basis of the Confederacy that blacks and other groups were born to be slaves, this is why he is labeled as he is by the SPLC, because he's a racist. It's a long read, but I'll explain more further down:


It's the libertarian version of freedom, as described Lincoln, that they want the liberty to own other people as slaves to serve their own interests to make them rich.

Plato excused / justified slavery:


Know how the RW insists the USA is a 'republic' and not a 'democracy'? Limited government is all they are selling, not the Constitution, which says to look out for the general welfare.

They and Libertarians say 'democracy'is 'mob rule' as it increases the power of the inferior. Romans used the term 'democrats' as a perjorative since they tried to lift up the working class of the day. Sound familiar?

More Plato here:


Now to Aristotle:

Some aspects of Aristotle's theory of slavery

Slavery -- natural or conventional?

Aristole's theory of slavery is found in Book I, Chapters iii through vii of the Politics. and in Book VII of the Nicomachean Ethics.

Aristotle raises the question of whether slavery is natural or conventional. He asserts that the former is the case. So, Aristotle's theory of slavery holds that some people are naturally slaves and others are naturally masters. Thus he says:

"But is there any one thus intended by nature to be a slave, and for whom such a condition is expedient and right, or rather is not all slavery a violation of nature?

There is no difficulty in answering this question, on grounds both of reason and of fact. For that some should rule and others be ruled is a thing not only necessary, but expedient; from the hour of their birth, some are marked out for subjection, others for rule."

This suggests that anyone who is ruled must be a slave, which does not seem at all right. Still, given that this is so he must state what characteristics a natural slave must have -- so that he or she can be recognized as such a being. Who is marked out for subjugation, and who for rule? This is where the concept of "barbarian" shows up in Aristotle's account. Aristotle says:

"But among barbarians no distinction is made between women and slaves, because there is no natural ruler among them: they are a community of slaves, male and female. Wherefore the poets say,

'It is meet that Hellenes should rule over barbarians';

as if they thought that the barbarian and the slave were by nature one."

So men rule naturally over women, and Greeks over barbarians! But what is it which makes a barbarian a slave? Here is what Aristotle says:

"Where then there is such a difference as that between soul and body, or between men and animals (as in the case of those whose business is to use their body, and who can do nothing better), the lower sort are by nature slaves, and it is better for them as for all inferiors that they should be under the rule of a master. For he who can be, and therefore is, another's and he who participates in rational principle enough to apprehend, but not to have, such a principle, is a slave by nature. Whereas the lower animals cannot even apprehend a principle; they obey their instincts. And indeed the use made of slaves and of tame animals is not very different; for both with their bodies minister to the needs of life. Nature would like to distinguish between the bodies of freemen and slaves, making the one strong for servile labor, the other upright, and although useless for such services, useful for political life in the arts both of war and peace. But the opposite often happens--that some have the souls and others have the bodies of freemen. And doubtless if men differed from one another in the mere forms of their bodies as much as the statues of the Gods do from men, all would acknowledge that the inferior class should be slaves of the superior. And if this is true of the body, how much more just that a similar distinction should exist in the soul? but the beauty of the body is seen, whereas the beauty of the soul is not seen. It is clear, then, that some men are by nature free, and others slaves, and that for these latter slavery is both expedient and right."

So the theory is that natural slaves should have powerful bodies but be unable to rule themselves. Thus, they become very much like beasts of burden, except that unlike these beasts human slaves recognize that they need to be ruled. The trouble with this theory, as Aristotle quite explicitly states, is that the right kind of souls and bodies do not always go together! So, one could have the soul of a slave and the body of a freeman, and vice versa! Nonetheless, apparently because there are some in whom the body and soul are appropriate to natural slavery, that is a strong body and a weak soul, Aristotle holds that there are people who should naturally be slaves. It also seems that men naturally rule women and that bararians are naturally more servile than Greeks! This seems like an odd, indeed arbitrary, way for the virtues of the soul to be distributed! Las Casas deals with a similar problem in regard to the native peoples of the Americas...

Contrast the ancient 1% with:

...John Locke's theory of slavery in The Second Treatise of Civil Government Locke does not believe in natural slaves or in the conventional view that all prisoners of war can be legitimately enslaved. He is a just war theorist who explicitly rejects the doctrine that might makes right.


I don't idolize people who defended slavery in the exact same terms as the Confederacy, in their claims of others' innate inferiority. The Founders owned slaves but realized if equality was going to mean anything it would have to be eliminated.

The South rejected the idea of human equality by the same rationale as Plato and Aristotle. This is libertarian tea party ideas of governance ignoring the rights of those whom the powerful regard as innately inferior and put on Earth for their use.

This is so similar to the ideology of the GOP and the theocrats, that there is little difference to me. Murray is confident that he will never face what he is willing to inflict on others.

Wimmenz don't know what they're doing, don't ya know? Incapable of 'significant thought' sez:

Adviser to Texas GOP’s Greg Abbott: No ‘evidence’ that women are ‘significant thinkers’


Apply liberally to this comment!!!

Hope he sues every last one of those who framed him within an inch of their life.

And if he'd lost his in prison, or given the death penalty in some other state, what would have been said?

Just another worthless killer who won't be on the public dime, kept alive all those years after committing murder.

Since this is today's news, it ought to be an OP, but it'd sink like a stone anyway.

I imagine the hell his family went through all this time, knowing he was innocent. That their words and evidence were dismissed repeatedly. And this man, who went to prison, what it did to him. He lost the most productive years of his life, but that's not all he lost.

It reminds me of this video, and it's time that something be done:

Daniel Beaty... Knock, Knock. Who's there? We Are!

The fierce urgency of now and the long game. Daniel Beaty - Knock, Knock on Def Jam Poetry:


to Sheshe2

Centuries of racism. No, as Hank Aaron said today about the way Obama is still treated, it's not over. America needs to face up to what has been and is being done by Atwater's game.

Thanks, Beacool for posting on this travesty of justice.

Black women have been notable for courage and huge hearts before:

Little Known Black History Fact: Keisha Thomas and the Ann Arbor Riot

On June 22, 1996, a group of 17 Ku Klux Klan members met in the city hall of Ann Arbor, Michigan –fully clothed in hate robes. With intention to hold a rally, they were met with an angry group of 300 protestors who wanted them to know they weren’t welcome. In the midst of the protestors, majority black, someone spotted a middle-aged white man wearing a Confederate t-shirt. Through his clothes and “SS” tattoo, it appeared that he was a white supremacist.

Once his presence was made known, a crowd of angry people chased him down and began to beat him in the streets, one yelling “Kill the Nazi”. While there were policeman with gas masks and riot gear protecting the Klansman who wore full garb on the other side of the fence, there was no one protecting the man who chose to stand on the same side as the protestors to observe, while he wore a symbol that represented racism on his shirt.

After the man was on the ground, being kicked and beaten with wooden sticks, 18-year-old Keshia Thomas, a black woman, threw her body over his and protected the man from the beating.

When asked why she helped him, Keshia Thomas said “…violence is violence – nobody deserves to be hurt, especially not for an idea.” Thomas admits to being a victim of violence and a spiritual person who believed that beating the man was wrong.

Keshia Thomas never knew that man she saved, nor did she seek him out for thanks. However, a few months later, the man’s son thanked her in a coffee shop.

The images of the incident will live on, capturing the bravery of a high school girl who saved someone who may not have saved her in the same situation.


Many more details and a full set of photograpsh leading up the event and her actions right here:


This is true power, that the bigots and the violent cannot grasp. The media should run many stories like this... I would like to see the racists at FNN run these, but they wouldn't want to offend their owners. The USA has a lot to learn.

Yeah, but we can't call the GOP a bunch of fascists. It'd hurt their precious feelings:

So, they wanna scam people into signing, then repeal it? Typical GOP. And won't expand Medicaid?

That's about all I have to say to them!

Plus they want to dress up jobs in call centers with the name of General Dynamics, that people think of as a high paying job? And which call center job the 'Job Creators' will outsource to reduce costs later? How many of those call center workers are doing without healthcare, but can't get expanded Medicaid?

Oh, and, Fuck Off, Republicans!

VIDEO: Secular Talk analyzes Rawn Pawl's support for Crimean secession. Note, he's a states righter:

Ron Paul Defends Russian Invasion Of Crimea

Published on Mar 15, 2014

Former Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) appeared on the Fox Business Network's The Independents on Wednesday night where he was asked for his thoughts about the worsening situation in Ukraine's Crimean peninsula. Paul said that the United States and the West have engaged in hypocrisy and alleged that they participated in the overthrow of Viktor Yanukovich's government. He added that Russian President Vladimir Putin has "some law on his side" in Crimea because Russia held a lease on a naval base in the Crimean city of Sevastopol...

Oh, noes! Please don't say that!

No, that's business as usual until someone pulls one of these out of their hat:

Little Kim's statements to world always seem to be same. He hates X, Y and Z and will nuke them. We only hope he isn't really that far gone . Talk about having a bad neighbor next door, I'd hate to live near him, he's a bogeyman.

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