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Member since: Sat Jun 13, 2009, 06:39 PM
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To begin with (1) The patient also described what s/he had heard the doctors

and nurses were saying.

(2) People born blind can compensate to an appreciable degree with
their other senses,: hearing, touch. Helen Keller became blind and deaf at
the age of 18 months. And look at her accomplishments! Of course, she was
fortunate enough to have parents wealthy enough to have her taught by specialists
in people with such handicaps. And the patients I was referring could hear. Sight and
hearing are the two main senses of learning for us. The others help, too. You'd
be surprised how much can still be learned through inference with the other
senses, even when one can't see.

(3) The patients couldn't see with their physical eyes. But the part that came out
of their physical body during their clinical death was not their physical eyes. This
is the main point: They could "see " and "understand" with their spirit, which was
temporarily out of body. Eyes, noses, ears....are different names given to the
different parts of the physical body. You are thinking in terms of the physical
body only. I don't blame you for thinking in this way. It is the only way one can
possibly think, when one doesn't believe there is anything else to a person
besides the physical.

The paragraph immediately above is what this discussion is mainly about. Spirits
are not bodies. Spirits have no bodies. Have you ever had the thought "Then
how do they communicate with one another?" Very likely not, since you don't
believe they even exist.

Here's another point for you to ponder: The average person when asked "What's
the opposite of life?" would answer "Death." In my opinion the opposite of death
is "birth." One is born and one dies. "Life" has no opposite. Life is an energy
force. And spirit is this energy force. Life = spirit. We know from physics that
energy is permanent. It may change form, but it cannot cease to exist. "Physical
life" exists for as long as this "energy force" is present in it, and the body dies
when this "energy force" leaves.

Sounds like you've come across too many rigidly fundamentalist type of people. Are you

living in such an area?

I had a long-time neighbor whose mother passed away. A few days later while (I'll call her Mary)

was at home, her mother appeared to her in the late afternoon and said "I'm okay," and was gone.
I asked Mary if she saw her mother "as clearly as you see me now?" Yes. "And did you hear
her as clearly as you hear me now?" Yes, again. This happened during the daytime, too. It
wasn't at night in a dream.

Mary is the honest, straightforward type. She wasn't religious, either. In fact, she had been
a Catholic, was divorced, and had remarried.

A friend of mine died some 10 years ago. He appeared to his long-time-neighbor family
next door, and asked them to tell his wife that he "was okay." His wife had a heart condition,
and he didn't want to shock her by appearing to her directly. That was why he appeared to
his neighbors instead.

The same identical "I'm okay." Not much else. This friend and his wife were very religious.

I have joined a near-death experience forum on the Internet. You don't need to have had
a near-death experience in order to become a member. I have never met any of them
in person. But I have written them, of course, and also spoken over the phone to a few.

Like I said in a previous post, Taverner, if you're not willing to put in the effort to go into
this matter in depth, you're only wasting your time -- unless, of course, passing away time
is your purpose in bringing up this subject.

Am sorry to hear of your condition. I am open to most ideas about the hereafter. But, don't be

surprised if, when you're on the other side, you find yourself still conscious, when you know
that your physical body is dead. How come I am still aware, still conscious when I'm dead?

Eventually, it will occur to you that there is an afterlife, after all. Just be glad, think of
those you love. Think pleasant, loving thoughts. And then see what happens.

I've read quite a bit about those who've been clinically dead (from minutes to days) but have
somehow been resuscitated and are alive today. This is becoming quite common nowadays
because of the improved methods of resuscitation. If you're curious enough about the
experiences these people have had when they were clinically dead, you can try reading:


These are some of the sites where opinions, scientific studies, all pros and cons can also be
read. I'm an old guy who probably hasn't got much time left either. I was afraid of death at
one time -- but no longer.

Good luck!

Most of the 10 Poorest States are Repblican. What does it say about the Republicans?

It says that the Republican Big Business corporations are screwing the people
blind, and these poor suckers don't even know it. They probably believe the
Republican lies that the Democrats are screwing them.


What you are implying is that the human brain (or at least the brightest ones) is capable of

understanding everything. I happen to think that the human mind is quite limited in its
capabilities. There are things in nature that we simply don't understand.

One example: a scientist in one area can make changes in a sub-atomic particle. The
same changes will also be observed in all sub-atomic particles of the same type by
scientists in any other part of the world. At the present time, all they can say is that
sub-atomic particles don't seem to obey the laws of macro-particle nature in regard to
space and time. But they don't understand why.

Of course, it's possible we may get to understand this problem sometime in the future.
And there is no end to the number of things we don't understand. But they do exist.

I believe that many become atheists as a reaction (whether consciously or not) to

some unpleasant experiences they have had with religionists -- oftentimes
with clergymen of that particular religion. Example: A friend of mine was
attending church one Sunday when he was 18 or 19. The preacher was
saying that those who did not accept Christ would be condemned to hell.
Someone asked, "What about those who have never even heard of Christ?"
The preacher said, it couldn't apply to those who have never heard of
Jesus. Another asked, "What about Gandhi? He knew about Christianity."
The preacher replied that Gandhi was in hell.

Well, my friend was a great admirer of Gandhi. He couldn't believe his ears.
He went up to the preacher after the service and spoke with him about
Gandhi. The preacher insisted that Gandhi was in hell. My friend became
an atheist on the spot, and has remained one ever since.

Jasana, just keep on being the way you are. To me you are one of those
spiritual people who are practicing as their conscience tells them to. And
each one of us is at some level of development. We do change with time
according to our ability as we experience and learn more. There are no rigid
doctrines to follow. We just do what we can. If more people did what you
are doing, the world would have been a far better place than it is now. Well,
it isn't. You seem to be accepting that too, while continuing to be the way
you are, Just keep it up.

There are international institutions that have been involved in debates and discussions

on this topic for many decades.

There are a few cases reported of a born-blind patient who had died on the operating table.
While the medical personnel were making efforts at resuscitation, the non-physical part of
the patient had floated out of his/her body and was watching and listening to all the goings
on. The resuscitations were successful.

Post-op the patients, of course, were still blind. But they reported to the nurses and
surgeons what each one of them had been doing and saying during the resuscitation.
These medical personnel were astounded, but could give no "natural" explanation. How
could these patients have seen when they had never seen? They were born blind, and
still were blind.

To really go deeply into this subject, you'll have to do a lot (and I mean a LOT) of research.
There are many institutions of world-renown involved in the links given below: Just begin with:


Since resuscitation methods have improved, millions who would have died in the past are now being

brought back to life. Roughly 8% of those who were clinically dead (flat EEGs, etc.) have had
various experiences while "on the other side." Some were clinically dead for a few minutes, others
for hours, even days. Some have had minor experiences, others major, deep ones.

You're stating as fact "There will be no white light...." that some of these "near-death experiencers"
will not agree with.

Einstein was born to a non-practicing Jewish family. Religion played little or no role in his life as a
child. I was surprised to learn that he had written quite a bit about spirituality, which were
conclusions of his own after he had become an adult. Among other statements, he had said that
it would be difficult for him to believe that there could be such order throughout the entire universe
without there also being some Supreme Intelligence present to sustain it.

But I do agree with you that NOW is the most important, if not the only, moment we can live in.
And every NOW moment well lived makes the chances for having better future moments that are
dependent on how we are handling our here and now.

I believe Powell could easily have beaten Clinton had he chosen to run in 1992. He was just

that popular after the Gulf War. But, he'd have had to run against Bush, Sr. to whom
he felt a depth of gratitude. Bush, Sr., among other things, had used his influence in
helping Powell become a general. Also, from what I've read, Mrs. Powell was terrified
at the idea of Powell's being assassinated, had he won the presidency. She was dead
set against his running for that position.

I wouldn't be surprised that he accepted the position of Sec'y of State when asked by
Bush, Jr., partially because of his gratitude to Bush, Sr. Also, he had stated in his
autobiography that he would try his best to respond positively to the request of any
president of the United States, if and when asked to do so.

If you've read his autobiography, he'd said that he didn't know what he should study
when he started college. He wasn't interested in any particular field. Then he joined
the ROTC while there, and realized that this was where he felt he belonged. His
description of his experiences in the ROTC showed that very likely he had the authoritarian
type of personality. Taking, following and passing on orders was what made him comfortable.

It was too bad that he had come in contact with Bush, Jr. That was his luck. If Bush, Jr.
hadn't happened in his life, Powell would have had the reputation of being one of the most
popular and all-time great American generals.

Powell's personality type was well-suited to that of a military man. He needed to have some
authority figure above him. He should not have tried his hand at a non-military position.
And secondly, gratitude -- especially of the second-hand variety -- to a man like Bush, Jr.
could and did prove fatal to the success that was already his.
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