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Member since: Thu Oct 5, 2006, 02:23 PM
Number of posts: 2,496

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At first, I was merely amused by your fairy tale economics theories.

However, I have to respond with a dose of reality to the last paragraph in your post.

You said:

"Well, sure, that's one of my motives. The American left has magical thinking about manufacturing employment that is counterproductive, so I argue against it. Manufacturing is no different from agriculture, extraction, or services: all of them add value, and we need to pay the people who do all of them more than we do now."

The principal source of gaining wealth is through trade. The principal method for spreading the wealth for a large number of people in a given population is by manufacturing goods and trading those goods with other groups.

Japan is an example of a country with limited resources. It developed into a wealthy country by manufacturing and trading goods with other countries. The wealth is widely distributed among the population.

Saudi Arabia is a wealthy country whose economy is based predominantly on the extraction of oil. The wealth is concentrated largely in the hands of a "royal" family and their followers. The rest of the population, not so much.

China is another example of a country that is expanding its wealth through manufacturing. It has a large population, and the wealth is spreading throughout the population, as can be seen through the fact of its growing middle class.

In fact, the corporations are looking at China, with its growing middle class, as an area of expanding markets.

One of the aims of the TPP is to prevent any competitors from entering the U.S. markets and taking market share away from the corporations that currently control it.

The TPP is NOT a "free trade" agreement. On the contrary, it is a treaty to prevent competition

Most of the goods that we buy are manufactured in low wage countries such as china.

Most of the everyday goods purchased by Americans are manufactured in whole or in part in low wage countries including, but not limited to, clothing, shoes, electronics, (computers, calculators, TVs, telephones, and more) electrical goods, appliances, hardware, tools, furniture, auto parts, pens, pencils, books, and more.

Actually, the sheer quantity of goods that are imported, goods which used to be manufactured in the U.S., belies your contention that "we manufacture more today than at any point in US history."

The huge trade deficit that the U.S. has with China, and the hoarding of profits by the corporations in overseas tax havens, is going to collapse the U.S. economy.

The TPP will only hasten that collapse.

The TPP will mean more U.S. jobs being outsourced to low wage countries.

This will result in a larger U.S. trade deficit and require more borrowing from China to be able to buy (on credit) from them.

Moreover, the problems with the safety and quality of imported medicine is NOT that China or India cannot make quality products.

The problem is that the corporations that import the stuff into the U.S.make little or no effort to demand quality and safety of the products from their foreign suppliers.

Outsourcing jobs is used to place the manufacturing of products beyond the reach of U.S. safety and quality regulations.

From what is known about the TPP, in effect, it allows corporations to sue the U.S. government if the government takes action to protect the American people by banning defective products if such a ban interferes with the profits of the offending corporation.

It seems, from your comments, that you have no concern about these issues.

The plundering and looting of America continues unabated.

The barbarians have taken over the U.S., and a majority of the voting public are too muddleheaded to deal with it.

K and R.

PS: If the TPP is not defeated, that deep hole you spoke of is going to go all the way to China.

PPS: Thank you for speaking up for the American people.

Media control is another example of how the corporations control us.

We have numerous examples of corporate control everyday on DU and in other media.

Besides the media, the corporations control numerous key politicians, trade, technology, many parts of the judiciary, our elections through the use of secretive, propriety voting systems and machines, our food supply (GMO foods), medicine (pharmaceuticals and much of health insurance), transportation, the military, and it seems that everyday, they are gaining more control over education (private charter schools and mind-numbing practices like "teach-to-the-test" techniques such as "No Child Left Behind" and "Race To The Top").

It seems that the main hope, perhaps the only hope, of reversing the complete takeover of civilization by the corporate 1 percent, is for a large part of the 99 percent that currently supports them comes to realize that their time will come to be oppressed when they cease to be useful minions of the oligarchy.

The goal should be for the middle class and the working class to regain a practical amount of negotiating power vis-a-vis the oligarchy. This negotiating power was previously provided by a strong union movement that supported the election of politicians who supported the interests of the people.

There are two main tactics used by the corporatists to achieve their aims of total control.

One tactic is to debilitate the union movement. This takes bargaining power away from the people.

The second tactic is to computerize every activity of the people. This removes all decision-making power from workers and lower level managers, since how the computers are programmed is controlled by upper management. That is, if an action isn't allowed by the computer, the user of that computer cannot make a decision of what is to be done.

Moreover, the computer allows tracking and recording of every action by a user of that computer. There is no privacy, and what is tracked is controlled by the "boss".

There are two ways to slow the march to a feudal system.

One strategy is to support workers and demand more American-made products.

The second strategy is to stop embracing the computerization of everything. It takes decision making ability away from people and hands more power to the corporations that decide how the computers are programmed.

Why is it that many are quick to accept the lies about Social Security...

...but slow to accept the facts? That is, If they ever accept the facts at all.

It occurred to me that the reason that so many accept the claim that Social Security is going broke despite the facts that say otherwise, and that climate change denial is true, despite the facts that say otherwise, and more, is that they tacitly accept as a given the overarching right wing theme that "they" are victims of a "liberal" conspiracy.

That is, underlying all of the lunatic themes of the right wing is the paranoia promoted in a united campaign by the right-wing commentators, politicians, talk show hosts, and the right-wing media.

The way to counteract right wing propaganda is, first, to avoid using the right wing "trigger" words in presenting the facts of the issues.

Second, keep progressive points of view simple, direct, and brief. Avoid mind-numbing charts and graphs, that are often inaccurate, if not totally irrelevant.

Avoid using examples to promote the Democratic Party that, in fact, promote the right-wing agenda. For example, pointing out how well the stock market is doing under a Democratic president undermines the criticism of "privatizing" Social Security. or at least diverting some of a person's retirement funds into the stock market. How so? Just point out that the stock market was booming in 1928, and then "crashed" in 1929. Then there is the example of Enron stock that many employees held in their retirement funds.

In other words, Social Security is a much more secure investment than the stock market.

Finally, Democrats should get on the same page. Whereas the right wing uses the same verbiage and promotes the same themes, the Democrats sound confused and befuddled by being all over the map with their pronouncements and often using the same "trigger" words used by the right, as well.

Everything about Trickle Down economics is a hoax.

It is based on a false premise that if you give money to the wealthy people, then they will invest it to create more jobs in order to make more money.

The reality is that if you give money to the rich people, they just keep it. They don't need to create jobs to get richer.

This is one reason why giving tax breaks to the wealthy just makes them wealthier.

Moreover, the stock market is just a giant Ponzi scheme. It has no correlation to the condition of the "real" economy. In most cases, stock prices go up when companies eliminate jobs, which boosts next quarter's profits.

The Federal Reserve is "owned" by the banks, and enables their fraudulent schemes. Interest rates on deposits are kept low to supply "cheap" money to the rich with which to speculate.

The charts and graphs that are presented to the public to describe economic conditions don't explain anything, because they are based on the validity of supply-side, trickle-down economics.

Most economists speak nonsense. If they work for banks or corporations, their jobs depend on them defending the bankers and Wall Street frauds. If they are academics, their reputations depend on their towing the party line.

Most people vote against their economic self-interest because they haven't a clue about how economies works, and what they think they know is mostly nonsense.

You want to fix the economy? This is what you do. Raise taxes on the wealthy and spend that money on education, health care, mass transit, research and development, renewable energy resources, pollution reduction, and bring manufacturing jobs of consumer goods back to the U.S.

Replace the Federal Reserve with a true central bank, dump NAFTA and similar corporate promoted trade agreements, and re-implement the Glass-Steagall Act.

This is where you start. Economics is NOT rocket science. People cling to their misconceptions so they refuse to see what is really straight forward logic.

Your presentation is a bit over-the-top, but otherwise quite accurate.

The current economic and political patterns mirror, to a large extent, those that existed in the 1930's in the U.S. and Europe, especially in Germany.

An economic war is being waged against the working and middle classes by the bankers and industrialists (Wall Street). Their end game is another Great Depression. It is absurd to believe that a booming stock market signifies a booming economy when a booming stock market preceded the Great Depression. The stock market was (and still is) nothing but a giant Ponzi scheme based on over-priced pieces of paper (or electronic bits of memory).

The stock market is based on trickle-down economics. and only works if "investors" believe in "free markets", "free trade", a "global economy", NAFTA, and Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, and Unicorns.

An economy is driven by demand, which requires that a large number of people have money to spend and want to spend it. Money has to circulate within an economy, which means that a population within a local economic system has to produce a majority of the goods and services that it buys.

Outsourcing jobs to low-wage countries in Asia drains money from an economy. Austerity measures by government and reducing taxes for the wealthy, who hide it in offshore bank accounts, drain money from an economy. The hidden and growing inflation ($2.00 and up for a pound of tomatoes, among other examples) reduces the assets and leverage of the middle class

Draining money from an economy reduces demand which leads to economic collapse.

Therefore, a healthy economy requires that an economic system support good paying jobs within its population, who produce a majority of the everyday goods and services purchased by that population.

Providing only a second-rate education, and making college unaffordable for the masses provides a rationale to the industrialists to send technical jobs offshore, "because the corporations can't find qualified people in the U.S."

The economic war is the core element in the goal of subjugating the masses.

This effort has been mainly successful because of a largely gullible, ignorant, and apathetic population, massive and open support of bigotry and racism by the powers-that-be through control of the mass media, and bread-and-circus for a select few, while planned economic and political collapse is expanding for the masses.

This is ALL that you need to know to understand modern economics.

Charts and graphs don't explain the economy. Most of the charts and graphs are either meaningless or designed to confuse you.

The stock market is another technique based exclusively on trickle-down economics used by the wealthy to separate the middle class from its savings.

So-called "free trade" doesn't exist. It is basically a marketing term to distract the unknowing from reality. Trade is controlled by the largest corporations for their own power and profit. So-called "free trade" agreements are the major corporations' method of carving up a captive market so as to increase their profits and prevent competition.

Consider "trade agreements" such as NAFTA and the proposed TPP as the manufacturing equivalent of OPEC.

The Federal Reserve is controlled by the largest banks for their own benefit exclusively. Interest rates are low only on depositors savings. Interest rates are high on credit card balances, student loans, and other money owed to the banks by the middle class.

Corporate avoidance of taxes, such as through unnecessary corporate subsidies, and offshore tax havens, is designed to withdraw money, the circulation medium that drives economic activity, from the middle class so as to collapse the bargaining power and influence of the middle class.

In order to understand reality, one first has to purge the false myths about economics from one's consciousness.

Another battle to fight in "Wall Street's War Against America".

The banks are already siphoning off the assets of middle class depositors by paying a measly 0.1 percent interest rate to their depositors while charging 14 percent or more on credit card balances.

A further loss to depositors occurs because 0.1 percent earned interest doesn't even come close to the annual inflation rate.

The Federal Reserve claiming that its low interest rates spur the economy are patently absurd. If the Fed really wanted to spur the economy, they would pay higher interest to depositors, thereby putting funds into the pockets of people who would spend it, while charging much less interest on credit card balances, which would leave much more money in the hands of those people who would spend it.

K and R!
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