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friendly_iconoclast

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Member since: Fri Sep 8, 2006, 12:47 PM
Number of posts: 13,666

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Joe Manchin: 'Due process is what's killing us right now' with getting gun control passed

Posted by friendly_iconoclast | Thu Jun 16, 2016, 02:38 PM (5 replies)

Using a tragedy in order to promote a political line can be from genuine concern about...

...society as a whole prompted by unfortunate events.

Or it can be crass and cyncical opportunism for political gain.

Trouble is, both sorts will claim that they are the first sort, and it's
"*those* people" that are the second...



Posted by friendly_iconoclast | Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:02 PM (3 replies)

Repost from GD: A nearly complete list of those responsible for the Orlando massacre

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027903608

So far, from DU and other sources, the following have been held to be responsible
for the horrible mass shooting:

The FBI
Gun culture
LGBT culture
The LGBT rights movement
The NRA
Wayne LaPierre
Every gun owner in the US
Gun Nuts
Guntards
The Second Amendment
Anybody who doesn't support immediate repeal of the Second Amendment
Assault Rifles
Assault Weapons
Extended magazines
Detachable magazines
AR-15s
Abrahamic religion
Islam
Wahabi Islam
ISIS
ISIS propaganda on social media
The victims
The LGBT rights movement
The shooter's employer
Scary-looking guns
Popular culture
Social media
Violent media

I can't help but feel that this list is somehow incomplete- perhaps some kind poster
could complete it for us?
Posted by friendly_iconoclast | Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:50 PM (12 replies)

A nearly complete list of those responsible for the Orlando massacre

So far, from DU and other sources, the following have been held to be responsible
for the horrible mass shooting:

The FBI
Gun culture
LGBT culture
The LGBT rights movement
The NRA
Wayne LaPierre
Every gun owner in the US
Gun Nuts
Guntards
The Second Amendment
Anybody who doesn't support immediate repeal of the Second Amendment
Assault Rifles
Assault Weapons
Extended magazines
Detachable magazines
AR-15s
Abrahamic religion
Islam
Wahabi Islam
ISIS
ISIS propaganda on social media
The victims
The LGBT rights movement
The shooter's employer
Scary-looking guns
Popular culture
Social media
Violent media

I can't help but feel that this list is somehow incomplete- perhaps some kind poster
could complete it for us?
Posted by friendly_iconoclast | Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:46 PM (18 replies)

None dare call it faith-promoting rumor...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/126210844#post9


I personally have about 8 guns. All but one is a historic relic. Five designed prior to 1898, two designed in the 1920s, one designed in 1893 and one modern shotgun for bird hunting. I purchased one relic for each of my grandchildren who, when they turn 21, will inherit these pieces of military history (assuming they are willing to purchase a suitable gunsafe and bolt it to the wall). I go for two years or more without laying eyes, much less hands, on one of them. I have not made a purchase in six years.


Hmm, seems that this poster has ...'forgotten', shall we say, that bolt-action rifles and
pump-action shotguns are current US military issue- and are being used as we speak.

What bothers me is that the new buying profile is semi auto current military style weaponry capable of firing several hundred rounds a minute relatively accurately. These buyers are not just collectors or hunters...


I seem to have missed the parts in the Second Amendment where collecting and hunting are mentioned



... they believe they NEED these things to be safe. Safe from who? Safe from people with guns of course. There seems to be no thought for safety for the vast majority of these buyers as given testimony by the hundreds of toddlers shooting themselves and others with mommy and daddy's guns.


"the vast majority"? Bullshit- even this posters' fellow prohibitionists 'gun safety
advocates' say there was 265 accidental shootings by under-18s last year:

http://everytownresearch.org/notanaccident/

...and that from a gun owning population of ca. 80 million. That's still too high, but nowhere
near indicative of a "vast majority of these buyers"

The new buyer is preparing for urban warfare. The guns I own are 55 inches long with barrel lengths of 40 plus inches...


Nonsense, unless the guns they own look like these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabyle_musket

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jezail

...(add another 22 inches if the antique bayonet if fixed--makes a good tent pole in a pinch). A wheelchair friendly hallway is less than 40 inches wide. I literally cannot make a 180 degree turn in a wheelchair friendly hall way without bringing these things to a vertical position. An AR-15 with a 20 inch barrel can be carried at the ready in firing position and make that 180 degree maneuver in a non wheelchair friendly hallway. At best my relics can fire 5-6 rounds a minute and can be reloaded in 2 minutes if you aren't under stress.


More nonsense:

https://www.google.com/search?q=reload+bolt+action&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=tactical+reload+bolt+action+

https://www.google.com/search?q=reload+bolt+action&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=tactical+reload+lever+action

https://www.google.com/search?q=reload+bolt+action&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=tactical+reload+pump+action+shotgun

An AR is capable for 700/minute and being reloaded in less than a second.

Like BillH I support strong gun control and want to decrease the number and availability of modern military style weaponry. This shit has just gotten nuts.


Apparently, actual military weaponry is acceptable, as long as it was designed
originally a long time ago.

Posted by friendly_iconoclast | Sat Jun 11, 2016, 05:30 PM (12 replies)

Spoon-bending workshop, widely ridiculed online, pulled by university

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/spoon-bending-workshop-widely-ridiculed-online-pulled-by-university-1.3615916

'There is absolutely no physical way you can bend a spoon with your mind'

After a healthy dose of online ridicule, the University of Alberta has cancelled a workshop at which doctors were supposed to learn to bend spoons.

With their minds.

When Tim Caulfield first spotted a poster for the event, he didn't understand what he was seeing.

"When I first saw the post I thought it might be a magic show," said the professor of health law and science policy at U of A. "But this wasn't being presented as that, or as satire, it was being presented as a real event where you're supposed to use the power of your mind to bend spoons."

The seminar, titled simply "Spoon Bending and the Power of the Mind," was arranged by the university's Complementary and Alternative Research and Education program or CARE, as part of the Pediatric Integrative Medicine Rounds, a series of monthly seminars presenting a specialist in the field of integrative medicine to a clinical audience.




Imagine my lack of surprise when I read that this was to have been
"taught" by a Reiki practitioner...
Posted by friendly_iconoclast | Mon Jun 6, 2016, 10:56 PM (8 replies)

There will be no unity without a ticket that has *both* Clinton AND Sanders on it

In either order.

If Clinton gets the presidential nod, she'll need Sanders to campaign for her and if
she wins she'll need at least one person around not inclined to genuflect.

If it's Sanders, Hillary can be his devil's advocate and tell him when neccessary
"Bernie, that shit ain't gonna happen, and here's why".

If this sounds unlikely, consider John F. Kennedy's choice of Lyndon Johnson as VP
after Johnson tried to defeat Kennedy in the 1960 primaries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_B._Johnson#Nomination

Or the vice-presidency of Henry A. Wallace, a guy who made FDR look like
Warren B. Harding:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_A._Wallace


http://www.britannica.com/biography/Henry-A-Wallace
Posted by friendly_iconoclast | Mon Jun 6, 2016, 06:35 PM (45 replies)

Poll: The "Under The Gun" director owned and defended her pious fraud in an interview...

https://variety.com/2016/film/news/under-the-gun-director-i-stand-by-edit-1201787149/

Is that sort of edit in line with standard practices for documentary filmmaking?

I think it has a different standard than the nightly news has. When you’re making a film like this, the goal is to get people to come to theaters to watch your film. You have to provide a thematic experience for them. I don’t think we misconstrued any of the facts. I think the VCDL made their position on background checks very clear earlier in the film and throughout the film. So yeah, I do think it’s pro forma for filmmaking.

Couric said in her statement that she spoke with you about the edit and raised concerns. Did she?

We talked about everything in the film and all edit choices. I’m the director of the film and at the end of the day I felt it was necessary to stop down and give people a moment to consider the question.

She mentioned you by name in her statement. Did you feel at all like she was attempting to shift blame for the controversy to you?

Not at all. Any time Katie does an interview and receives a compliment on the film she says, “It’s all Stephanie. I can take very little credit for this. Stephanie and her team did all of this.” That swings both ways, right? In other decisions that I made I need to take responsibility, too, and this was my choice.


In what way, if any, does she differ from James O'Keefe?

Posted by friendly_iconoclast | Thu Jun 2, 2016, 02:55 PM (12 replies)

Once again, the VPC hopes you are both easily frightened and poor at math

The Violence Policy Center has cranked up its evergreen moral panic
"Concealed Carry Killers"- and the gullible and doctrinaire fall for it:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22concealed+carry+killers%22&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

http://www.democraticunderground.com/126210658

Concealed Carry Tragedies Include Workplace Shooting, Six-Year-Old Unintentionally Killing Father.

Washington, DC — Concealed handgun permit holders are responsible for at least 873 deaths not involving self defense since 2007, including 29 mass shootings that killed 139 people, ongoing VPC research shows. Since there is no comprehensive record keeping of fatal incidents involving concealed carry permit holders, this tally most likely represents a small fraction of the actual total.


I couldn't be arsed to look for any 2014 or 2015 screeds from them, so let's
look at one from 2013:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023118413

Research Details Hundreds of Examples of Innocent Lives Lost to “Concealed Carry Killers"


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
June 27, 2013
3:18 PM
CONTACT: Violence Policy Center
Avery Palmer, 202-822-8200 x104, apalmer@vpc.org

As Zimmerman Case Begins, VPC Research Details Hundreds of Examples of Innocent Lives Lost to “Concealed Carry Killers

WASHINGTON - June 27 - Washington, DC— As the trial opens this week over the deadly shooting of Trayvon Martin, research shows that similar fatal incidents are shockingly common. The Violence Policy Center has uncovered hundreds of examples of non-self defense incidents involving private citizens legally allowed to carry concealed handguns. These incidents resulted in 516 deaths — including 24 mass shootings and the killing of 14 law enforcement officers.


Doing the math, and according to the VPC, concealed carriers are responsible for 357
deaths over the last three years, or 119 a year.
Lets stipulate, for the sake of this argument, that all of those deaths were murders
even if they were not.

Now comes the part where the wheels fall off the panic mongering.

The lowest estimate I can find for the number of concealed handgun permit holders
in the US is 11.1 million- other figures cited were a high of 12.8 million but
I'll stick with the low one. Taking that number, and using the numbers given by the
VPC, we see that 119/11100000 = a murder rate of 0.93 per 100,000 permit
holders, a rate about one-fifth of the US population as a whole

Source for US murder rate:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-1

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/preliminary-semiannual-uniform-crime-report-januaryjune-2015/tables/table-3

Worse for the controllers, these numbers mean that those 'concealed carry killers'
kill at a lower rate than does the populations of the UK, France,
Australia (where have I heard that name recenly?), Ireland, Canada...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

http://rboatright.blogspot.com/2013/03/comparing-england-or-uk-murder-rates.html


and at par with Norway and Sweden




Posted by friendly_iconoclast | Wed May 18, 2016, 06:03 PM (31 replies)

The VPC contradicted itself, and the anti-gunners fell for it

From the other group:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/126210633

Self-Defense Gun Use is Rare, New VPC Study Confirms

Washington, DC — New research from the Violence Policy Center (VPC) confirms that contrary to what the firearms industry and gun lobby claim, private citizens rarely use guns to kill criminals or stop crimes.

The new study, Firearm Justifiable Homicides and Non-Fatal Self-Defense Gun Use, analyzes the most recent federal data available, which shows that private citizens use guns to harm themselves or others far more often than to kill in self-defense.


Got that headline and first sentence? A strong clear claim, is it not? Not surprisingly,
given the general mendacity of Josh Sugarman and the VPC, it's not true

Who says so? The VPC itself, in the body of the touted 'study':

http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable16.pdf

Page 5:

ESTIMATES ON SELF-DEFENSE USE OF FIREARMS FROM THE BUREAU OF JUSTICE STATISTICS NATIONAL CRIME VICTIMIZATION SURVEY

Hemenway notes, and numerous others agree, that the most accurate survey of self-defense
gun use is the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) conducted
by the Bureau of Justice Statistics.


And what numbers did the NCVS give for self defensive use of firearms?
From the next page:

SELF-PROTECTIVE BEHAVIORS, BY TYPE OF CRIME, 2012-2014

"Threatened or attacked with a firearm"


Note: This is *not* the only type of defensive gun use. Sometimes, mere display suffices
and many DGUs are not reported to police - mine wasn't, for instance

Cut to the chase- how many of these 'rare' occasions happened during the period under study?

262,500

From the same page:

SELF-PROTECTIVE BEHAVIORS, BY TYPE OF CRIME, 2012-2014
Violent Crime 2012-2014
Property Crime 2012-2014

Self-Protective Behavior
Threatened or attacked with a firearm
163,600 99,900


Given the total number of DGUs, and even accounting for the restricted definition,

262,500/731 (days) = 359 defensive gun uses per day 2012-2014

How many people were murdered via firearm in 2013? The FBI says 8454:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

8454/365(days) = ca. 21 firearms murders per day

Therefore in 2013 there were 18x as many defensive gun uses (using the VPC's own
restricted definiton than there were murders via gun



Posted by friendly_iconoclast | Mon May 16, 2016, 12:13 AM (22 replies)
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