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Gender: Male
Hometown: Eastern North Carolina
Home country: United States
Current location: Eastern NC
Member since: Wed Dec 1, 2004, 03:09 PM
Number of posts: 12,122

Journal Archives

So it sounds like the obsessive focus on attacking lawful gun owners and target shooters...

is focusing on the wrong cohort.

And yet every year, ten or fifteen times as many people are murdered with revolvers

as with all rifles put together, even though modern-looking rifles are more popular than revolvers among gun enthusiasts.

And before the gun-control lobby discovered how eeeee-villlll protruding rifle handgrips are, they were all about outlawing revolvers while protecting rifles (including AR-15's), because "rifles and shotguns aren't the problem; they aren't concealable". --Pete Shields, former head of Handgun Control, Inc., later the Brady Campaign.

Methinks there is a disconnect in your logic.

He probably intends to use it for long-range target shooting,

but you knew that.

AFAIK, not one single murder has *ever* been committed with a .50 BMG in the United States since 1919, but I may be wrong.

Ballistically, anything you can hit with a .50, you can hit with a .408 or a .338 or a .300 or a 6.5mm, which is why the gun control lobby has also expressed interested in banning everything down to the fast .30's also.

In terms of caliber and power, there are larger rifles than .50 that are considered Title 1 civilian rifles under sporting-use exemptions (the cutoff under Federal law is .51 caliber, but larger caliber sporting guns are allowed). .577 T-rex, .585 Nyati, and .600 Nitro Express come to mind. Most shotguns are .729 caliber, but operate at much lower pressures than rifles.

Since the #1 priority of the gun control lobby is outlawing the most popular *rifles*,

and the #2 priority is magazine bans that hit rifles hardest, I think "we want to take your pistols but we promise to leave your rifles alone" is not going to be believed.

There's also the issue that as many Americans own pistols as own rifles and shotguns, and will keep them.

I think focusing on *misuse* rather than lawful and responsible ownership would be a point of common ground, but I don't see the gun control lobby turning in that direction until the prohibitionists stop running the movement.

It was a ballot referendum that Bloomberg's people wrote and paid to pass.

I think he spent about $35 *per vote* to pass it. And yet his staff are so ignorant of the law that they wrote it in such a way that it is illegal to enforce. SMH.

If I remember correctly, I think Nevada law says that the legislature can't change a ballot-passed law within 3 years of passage. Meaning it's dead until November 2019, if my recollection is accurate.

Since he already tipped his hand by starting the push for a magazine ban as soon as the UBC referendum squeaked by, I think it will be a much harder sell next time. Anyone who thinks a ban on most magazines will fly in Nevada is probably from New York City or California.

Gun control advocates are demanding legislation banning rifle handgrips that stick out,

and limiting magazine capacities to 2/3 of an 1866-vintage Winchester. Neither of which would affect Chicago homicides *at all*.

I'll also point out that those areas outside Chicago where gun ownership rates are much higher have *vastly* lower homicide rates. It's not guns in homes, it's the culture that decades of neglect and dysfunction have created in a handful of Chicago neighborhoods.

Who was holding an Airsoft that someone else had painted to look real.

The people who called 911 told dispatch it was likely fake, but that info wasn't passed to the responding officers. The officer who shot the child had previously been "deemed an emotionally unstable recruit and unfit for duty", says Wikipedia, and fired two seconds after arriving on-scene.

So, no, that case doesn't demonstrate that Red Ryders and other .177 air weapons, adult training replicas, and movie props need to be made to look like toys.

Those aren't toys. Your link has law-enforcement training replicas, and

replicas made for collectors (popular in Japan and a handful of other nations where collecting actual firearms is hard), and inexpensive movie props (much cheaper than blank-firing guns, and you can dub in muzzle flashes in post-processing).

15 USC 5001 covers all toys, but exempts both non-toys (like training replicas and collectibles) and actual weapons (e.g. airguns).

And yes, a Daisy Red Ryder is not a toy; it is a .177 caliber air rifle firing a projectile capable of causing serious injury if misused. They are trainers for real guns, and should be treated the respect afforded real guns, even if the consequences of an accident are sublethal. My son had one when he was younger, and I kept it in the safe and ensured he followed the Four Rules as if it were a .22.

As to *criminals* painting toys to look real or buying realistic looking replicas in order to carry out crimes, we could bring our murder rate down if we convinced more criminals to use nonfiring replicas, no? Yes, it presents an occupational hazard that the criminal using one for robberies might get himself shot in the belief that it was real, but if a career criminal is going to commit armed robbery then I'd much rather they do it with a fake gun than with a knife or an actual firearm. Not many innocent people a year are murdered with nonfiring replicas or Airsofts, and even the suicides-by-cop via replicas are a tiny fraction of suicides by firearms, falls, hanging, or blades, no?

They don't. That's *ALREADY* the law, since 1988 (15 U.S. Code 5001).


15 U.S. Code § 5001 - Penalties for entering into commerce of imitation firearms

Current through Pub. L. 114-38. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

(a) Acts prohibited

It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, enter into commerce, ship, transport, or receive any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm unless such firearm contains, or has affixed to it, a marking approved by the Secretary of Commerce, as provided in subsection (b).

(b) Distinctive marking or device; exception; waiver; adjustments and changes

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2) or (3), each toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm shall have as an integral part, permanently affixed, a blaze orange plug inserted in the barrel of such toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm. Such plug shall be recessed no more than 6 millimeters from the muzzle end of the barrel of such firearm.

(2) The Secretary of Commerce may provide for an alternate marking or device for any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm not capable of being marked as provided in paragraph (1) and may waive the requirement of any such marking or device for any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm that will only be used in the theatrical, movie or television industry.

(3) The Secretary is authorized to make adjustments and changes in the marking system provided for by this section, after consulting with interested persons.

(c) “Look-alike firearm” defined

For purposes of this section, the term “look-alike firearm” means any imitation of any original firearm which was manufactured, designed, and produced since 1898, including and limited to toy guns, water guns, replica nonguns, and air-soft guns firing nonmetallic projectiles. Such term does not include any look-alike, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or traditional B–B, paint-ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.

(d) Study and report

The Director of the Bureau of Justice Statistics is authorized and directed to conduct a study of the criminal misuse of toy, look-alike and imitation firearms, including studying police reports of such incidences and shall report on such incidences relative to marked and unmarked firearms.
(c)  Technical evaluation of marking systems

The Director of  National Institute of Justice is authorized and directed to conduct a technical evaluation of the marking systems provided for in subsection (b) to determine their effectiveness in police combat situations. The Director shall begin the study within 3 months after November 5, 1988, and such study shall be completed within 9 months after November 5, 1988.

(f) Effective date

This section shall become effective on the date 6 months after November 5, 1988, and shall apply to toy, look-alike, and imitation firearms manufactured or entered into commerce after November 5, 1988.

(g) Preemption of State or local laws or ordinances; exceptionsThe provisions of this section shall supersede any provision of State or local laws or ordinances which provide for markings or identification inconsistent with provisions of this section provided that no State shall—

(i) prohibit the sale or manufacture of any look-alike, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or

(ii) prohibit the sale (other than prohibiting the sale to minors) of traditional B–B, paint ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.

(Pub. L. 100–615, § 4, Nov. 5, 1988, 102 Stat. 3190.)

What you're advocating is to take the rules for toys and apply them to *non* toys, e.g. BB guns, collector's replicas, and Airsoft replicas, by repealing the exemption for non-toys in 15 U.S. Code § 5001(c). Talking about "toy guns" when talking about expanding the toy rules to non-toys is a bad-faith bait and switch.

Is that sarcasm/Poe, or are you serious?

Because gun ranges are not only legal everywhere in the United States, but also legal in Canada, Australia, the United Kingdom, and every nation in Europe.

I suppose "the entire planet except for Japan and a couple other nations" counts as "some places", making that statement technically true, but it doesn't capture the scope of it.
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