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Dragonfli

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Name: Dennis
Gender: Male
Hometown: Buffalo NY
Home country: US
Current location: Variable
Member since: Thu Nov 11, 2004, 08:38 AM
Number of posts: 10,609

Journal Archives

'poorsplaining'

I often resist the urge to poorsplain to the obviously financially secure posters here that keep telling us how well we are all doing, how we are in recovery, how we are on the right track.

What about access to not worrying about your electricity being cut off because you are juggling bills?
What about access to a dignified, well-funded mass transit system?
What about access to education and opportunity?


Are questions I ask on a daily basis, and what might shock some of the cheerleaders here is that those are the most common thoughts to enter the minds of the average American in this day and age, yes, I said average, but it really is more like the majority of Americans. The majority of us have been left behind in an economy where we lose more each day as the well to do gain more each day, what makes matters worse is that we no longer appear to have much in the way of representation no matter how we vote.

I would give what little remains of my life for a party of the people, a labor party, a party that is concerned about the rising and rampant poverty all around the insulated bubbles of the few remaining middle class members that love to tell me how great we are doing, how progressive our party is, how our leaders "feel our pain".

I would poorsplain to them what the true reality is as a party that once represented the people has for the past thirty years abandoned us to decay as a people as completely as they have abandoned the crumbling bridges roads and empty factories that once were the life blood of a people first marginalized, then ignored, and now completely invisible. - it is as if the majority of Americans do not exist.

I would do this splainin' but such is condescension and anger does not translate well as condescension but rather rage repressed becomes expressed, and this insulated bubble of cheerleading "sports team" enthusiasts that do not have the worries of the common man are quite fragile and easily offended, they would ban me from this site were I to attempt to poorsplain to them the nature of the reality of the suffering all around them they are blind to as my condescension would turn to rage before the first paragraph were completed.

You see, it is not just the rich that keep 'splainin to us "how we need to be" to not be struggling and losing, but also those that carry their water from the insulated middle class that are the only ones spoken to by our representatives, the house servants to the rich that exist within our party that are skeeved out by a class they fear they will one day join if they don't ally themselves to the rich splaining servants of the upper crust that call themselves representatives to the people.

If any of them truly cared about anyone but themselves, if any of them cared about most of their fellow citizens, they would not cheer on and idolize those that have shaped a party that once served the people into a golem fit only to further enrich the already rich using nothing more than soft rhetoric and broken promises to the middle class that carry their water while ignoring the rest, the majority, the struggling .... the invisible that are losing or have lost everything to policies chosen by those that they swoon over and adore as if they were teenagers smitten by a heart throb.

There are exceptions within these insulated bubbles of middleclassdom that do see us and do see with deeper insight how their class too shall fall to the greed of the wealthy that own our representatives, there are exceptions as well within our representative bodies that can see the invisible majority, they are the ones that have my respect as advocates that show true empathy and disgust at the indefensible state we find ourselves in and who would, like statesmen of a time now past, attempt to effect change that will perhaps not make the majority wealthy, but at least comfortable enough to survive without the constant dread of becoming homeless and dead. But alas, they need no one to explain to them because they already have eyes to see.

To the rest, you are cowards or complicit idiots that perhaps feel you will one day rise above your middle class status to trample us beneath your feet like the heroes you idolize that have brought this country to a state where an economic recovery is now defined as the rich gaining much more of the monetary resources they will never need or likely spend while the majority fall further into poverty. House servants are what they are, and could only maybe learn from working in the fields for a bowl of gruel and a hope that the next day they will be able to break their backs yet again for yet one more bowl, one more day alive. I do not respect such individuals and attempts to 'poorsplain to them would more likely result in a lynch mob directed towards me than a change of mind or heart.

This is a bad day today (as perhaps evidenced by my lengthy rambling response), one more acquaintance went homeless today and we are all of us trying to help around here but with little success save temporary floor accommodations and calls to the mostly ineffective representatives that work within a tattered and barely existent safety net apparatus ravaged a few decades ago with bi-partisan support and a well adored sports team favorite named Clinton.

I feel I should introduce some research on the candidates records, I hope this is the proper forum

A warning to all Democrats.
There is a myth going around that Hillary Clinton has more experience, I intend to shatter that illusion as it is not true, nor is it true (as some have "misspoken") that he accomplished little to nothing during his career in public service.

He has always caucused with the Democrats, he is more a Democrat than most in the party regarding issues


An independent in name only in many ways

He caucused with the Democrats for, 16 years in the United States House of Representatives, 10 years in the United States Senate;

where he served on many committees Representing the Democratic party such as the:

Committee on the Budget (Ranking Member)
Committee on Environment and Public Works
Subcommittee on Clean Air and Nuclear Safety
Subcommittee on Green Jobs and the New Economy
Subcommittee on Transportation and Infrastructure
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
Subcommittee on Energy
Subcommittee on National Parks
Subcommittee on Water and Power
Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions
Subcommittee on Children and Families
Subcommittee on Primary Health and Aging (Ranking Member)
Committee on Veterans' Affairs (chairman)

He has every right to expect respect from those he served with such loyalty and in so many capacities.
The Democratic party must consider him a true blue ally to have given him seats on so many committees.

He was also a co-founder of the Democratic Progressive caucus.

It appears to me the only one's that are offended by his former Independent status are all the Moderate Republicans that are far less honest and register as "Democrats" while voting for Republican policy, those "Democrats" are most often both conservative and liars

He has done a great many good things for the Democratic party that they could not take credit for without him!

The following is a list of every substantive bill and amendment Sanders sponsored from the floor of Congress that became law (substantive meaning legislation renaming post offices is not included). Many of the roll-call amendments he passed with majority approval — like limiting the federal government’s ability to spy on people’s library records — were removed from bills when the House and Senate negotiated over the final legislative text and did not become law.

Because the list is derived from Congress’ official database of floor actions, it does not include achievements like his insertion of funding for veterans health care into an Iraq war spending bill because that occurred off of the House floor while the bill was in conference. Nor does the list include what is perhaps his most significant achievement — providing health care to an additional 10 million mostly low-income Americans by getting Senate majority leader Harry Reid to add $11 billion in funding for community health centers that provide care regardless of a person’s ability to pay to the 2010 Affordable Care Act in exchange for Sanders rallying liberal Democrats who were considering voting against the bill once conservative Democrats removed the public option.

Those who mistakenly believe that a President Sanders would be powerless in the face of a hostile Republican Congress should bear in mind that he managed to pass these bills and amendments in spite of Republican control of both the House (1995-2006) and the presidency (2001-2008). Furthermore, it was Republicans in the House and Senate who compromised with him (not the other way around) on major veterans legislation in 2014. His original bill expanding services for veterans and fixing the scandal-ridden Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) cost $17.3 billion. The price tag of the final compromise bill? $16.3 billion.

H.R.4206 (Cancer Registries Amendment Act) enacted as S. 3312 (Cancer Registries Amendment Act).

H.Amdt. 98 to H.R. 665 (Victims of Justice Act of 1995)

H.Amdt. 210 to H.R. 830 (Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995)

H.Amdt. 1203 to H.R. 3666 Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development, and Independent Agencies Appropriations Act, 1997

H.J.Res.129 enacted as S.J.Res.38 (A joint resolution granting the consent of Congress to the Vermont-New Hampshire Interstate Public Water Supply Compact)

H.Amdt.174 to H.R.1757 (Foreign Affairs Reform and Restructuring Act of 1998)

H.Amdt.267 to H.R.2160 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1998)

H.Amdt.289 to H.R.2266 (Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 1998) -- National Guard Starbase program

H.Amdt.368 to H.R.2378 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 1998) -- Prohibit funds for the U.S. Customs Office from being used to allow the importation into the U.S. any material mined, produced, or manufactured by forced or indentured child labor.

H.Amdt.388 to H.R.2267 (Departments of Commerce, Justice, and State, the Judiciary, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1998)

H.Amdt.569 to H.R.6 (Higher Education Amendments of 1998)

H.Amdt.614 to H.R.3694 (Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1999) -- Reduce the intelligence budget for fiscal year 1999 by 5% with an exemption for the CIA Retirement and Disability Fund.

H.Amdt.626 to H.R.10 (Financial Services Act of 1998) -- Require the Comptroller General to report to Congress regarding the efficacy and benefits of uniformly limiting any commissions, fees, markups, or other costs incurred by customers in the acquisition of financial products.

H.Amdt.706 to H.R.4101 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1999) -- Increase funding for nutrition programs for senior citizens by $10 million

H.Amdt.708 to H.R.4103 (Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 1999) -- Prohibit funding to be used to enter into or renew a contract with any company owned, or partially owned, by the People’s Republic of China or the People’s Liberation Army of the People’s Republic of China.

H.Amdt.724 to H.R.4104 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 1999) enacted as H.R. 2490 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2000) -- National Archives and Records Administration improvements

H.Amdt.127 to H.R.1906 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000)

H.Amdt.136 to H.R.1906 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000) -- national pilot program to promote agritourism

H.Amdt.258 to H.R.2466 (Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000) enacted as H.R.3194 (Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2000) -- deficit reduction; and reduces fossil energy research and development funding

H.Amdt.442 to H.R.2684 (Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development, and Independent Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000) -- health care services for veterans in rural areas

H.Amdt.791 to H.R.4577 (Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2001) -- (relating to the availability to the public of an invention and its benefits on reasonable terms)

H.Amdt.818 to H.R.4578 (Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2001) -- weatherization assistance and energy conservation programs and reduce fossil fuel energy research and development programs

H.Amdt.238 to H.R.2590 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2002) -- Prohibit the importation of goods made by forced or indentured child labor.

H.Amdt.376 to H.R.3061 (Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2002) -- relating to the availability to the public of an invention and its benefits on reasonable terms

H.Amdt.404 to H.R.3338 (Department of Defense and Emergency Supplemental Appropriations for Recovery from and Response to Terrorist Attacks on the United States Act, 2002) -- Provide $100 million for federally qualified community health centers.

H.Amdt.255 to H.R.2691 (Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2004) -- Increase funding for weatherization assistance grants

H.Amdt.336 to H.R.2861 (Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development, and Independent Agencies Appropriations Act, 2004) enacted as H.R.2673 (Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2004) -- Prohibit the use of funds in the bill to implement any policy prohibiting the Directors of the Veterans Integrated Service Networks from conducting outreach or marketing to enroll new veterans within their respective networks.

S.Amdt.737 to H.R.1591 (U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans’ Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act, 2007) -- fund weatherization assistance program

S.Amdt.1515 to H.R.6 (Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007) -- Establish an energy efficiency and renewable energy worker training program

S.Amdt.1525 to H.R.6 (Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007) -- use of solar hot water heaters in certain Federal buildings

S.Amdt.4384 to H.R.3221 (Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008) -- Increase specially adapted housing benefits for disabled veterans.

S.Amdt.1658 to S.1390 (National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010) -- re child care available to deployed members of the reserve components of the Armed Forces

S.Amdt.2271 to H.R.2997 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2010) -- funds for the school community garden pilot program

S.Amdt.2601 to H.R.3326 (Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 2010) -- veteran outreach and reintegration services

S.Amdt.3738 to S.3217 (Restoring American Financial Stability Act of 2010) -- let the American people know the names of the recipients of over $2 trillion in taxpayer assistance from the Federal Reserve System

S.Amdt.306 to H.R.1 (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009) -- Require recipients of TARP funding to meet strict H-1B worker hiring standard to ensure non-displacement of U.S. workers

S.Amdt.1658 to S.1390 (National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010) -- report to Congress on financial assistance for child care available to deployed members of the reserve components of the Armed Forces.

S.Amdt.4280 to H.R.4899 (Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2010) -- make publicly available the contractor integrity performance database established under the Clean Contracting Act of 2008

S.2450 (Veterans’ Access to Care through Choice, Accountability, and Transparency Act of 2014) enacted as H.R.3230 (Veterans Access, Choice, and Accountability Act of 2014) -- VA reform bill

S.893 (Veterans’ Compensation Cost-of-Living Adjustment Act of 2013) -- increase rates of veterans’ disability compensation, additional compensation for dependents, etc.

S.Amdt.2146 to S.1471 (Alicia Dawn Koehl Respect for National Cemeteries Act) – re interring the remains and honoring the memory of a person in a national cemetery

Also, compare her record to his perhaps you will gain an understanding of her right wing infiltration into the party

The Right Wing meme been spread here often appears to be that even with all his years of public service, a progressive like Bernie Sanders was too far to the left to accomplish anything, being a former Independent and all.

That one has to be able to find the buypartisan way, in other words, adopt the least offensive GOP legislation as your own if you wish to accomplish anything, if one is not a member of the Republican party itself.

The problem with this bullshit GOP meme is that it is completely false, he's actually one of the most effective members of Congress, passing bills, of all sizes and shapes, that have reshaped American policy on key issues like poverty, the environment and health care.

The Amendment King


....Congress is not known to be a progressive institution lately, to say the least. Over the past few decades, the House of Representatives was only controlled by the Democrats from 2007 to 2010, and a flood of corporate money has quieted the once-powerful progressive movement that passed legislation moving the country forward between the New Deal era and the Great Society. Yet, as difficult as it may be to believe, a socialist from Vermont is one of its most accomplished members. ....

snip

....Sanders did something particularly original, which was that he passed amendments that were exclusively progressive, advancing goals such as reducing poverty and helping the environment, and he was able to get bipartisan coalitions of Republicans who wanted to shrink government or hold it accountable and progressives who wanted to use it to empower Americans.

Here are a few examples of the amendments Sanders passed by building unusual but effective coalitions:....


Much more, but due to the three paragraph rule you will have to follow this link
I dare those that pretend the GOP meme is true and are spreading it for them, to read the article!

There are so many examples in fact that you really need to read the entire article as it completely dispels this current Right Wing myth that Bernie Sanders after all his time in Congress achieved almost nothing, when in fact he was literally one of the most effective members of Congress! Read the facts in the article itself, clearly the GOP is spreading lies about him, after all, who besides Rove and the GOP would use such lying sleazy bullshit tactics against someone that helped Democrats get as much progressive policy put into effect during his tenure?...


Robert Reich, Clinton Secretary of Labor, on Bernie's effectiveness in Congress




Lets Compare Hillary Clinton's commitment and "Democratic" values accomplished by way of comparison.

Not to say Hillary Clinton did not achieve some things during her six year hobby involved in legislating (the last two were spent campaigning and fundraising)

She managed to vote for the Patriot Act, for an illegal war, and even whip some votes with her passionate selling of the Bush/Cheney lies. (she deserves some credit for that,) and those of you that enjoy war should be and are rightfully quite proud of that.

As a Senator Clinton did get some things accomplished, Clinton sponsored three bills that became law: S.3145, S.3613, and S.1241. The first of these renamed a highway in New York state, the second renamed a post office in New York City, and the third established the Kate Mullany National Historic Site in Troy, New York and authorized funding to set the site up.

To be truly fair, she also tried to put an end to the epidemic of flag burning and ban some media, but these, her most favorite things were too hard for her to get done, she just couldn't get them passed, she may have lacked the chops to do it, but BUT SHE TRIED REAL HARD!

The United States Family Entertainment Protection Act (FEPA) was a bill introduced by Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY), and co-sponsored by Senators Joe Lieberman (D-CT), Tim Johnson (D-SD) and Evan Bayh (D-IN) on November 29, 2005. The bill called for a federal mandate enforcement of the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) ratings.

Unsuccessfully unfortunately for the more puritan among us, sigh, if only she were more effective at passing such laws, we would finally be safe from cluster bombs, eerr.. I mean f-bombs (she voted against ending the use of child killing cluster bombs, my "misspeak" or my bad, if you prefer) she likes cluster bombs, so much so that after some donations to very, very, special charity, she made sure as SoS to sell cluster bombs to those altruistic rulers of Saudi Arabia! She deserves credit for that!

The kids just love playing with those rather than video games.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2008/03/13/cluster-bombs-are-not-good-children-hillary

Speaking of her only other "superior experience" on her resume'

Lets review her tenure as Secretary of state, great experience! for a neocon war hawk, she deserves huge credit for that!



She is basically a moderate Republican that Registered as a Democrat
He was Basically an FDR Democrat that Registered as an Independent (likely because he did not want to be identified with the ever increasing Right Wing infiltration and taint of such an anti worker "modern" party.

Yet he still voted and enacted more Democratic amendments and laws than most DLC Democrats would even dream of or even want to (their priority instead since the early nineties being largely deregulation of banks, corporations and everything else under the sun, privatization of as much of the commons as possible, media consolidation and Corporatization, safety net shredding welfare destruction, and tough on mostly minority crimes involving possession of weed and other substances to grow the prison industrial complex beyond anything seen in even China or North Korea.

Mustn't we reevaluate our party since it is is going through a right wing realignment?

And has successfully been doing so since the founding of the DLC

The entire goal of the neoliberal, "new" Democrat movement, under Al From and the Clintons (and all the other "new Democrats" AKA "Third Way" Democrats) has been since at least the 80's, to court and bring into the fold moderate Republicans, replacing the working class voters with them.

They refer to the RW takeover of the party as an "intellectual leveraged buyout" And history shows they DID take over the party.

My suggested most current reading on the subject would be Thomas Frank's new book, Listen, Liberal – or – What Ever Happened to the Party of the People?


If Sanders does not bring the party back, one must realize they will complete the realignment


It may well likely be too late to reclaim the party from within if he fails, so we must consider all viable options in order to keep a party of the people, not an easy task, which is why Bernie Sanders calls such a task a political revolution. That is not hyperbole but honesty.

If true liberal ideals, a moral economy, and an equal society that grows beyond bigotry in all it's forms is to ever be achievable again, let alone in time to stop the demise of many species including our own. It will be nearly impossible by the method we had hoped for, that is, by saving the party from it's complete makeover and thus reclaiming it because in a few years such will no longer be a viable option. Let me explain if I might.

Those that vote for hawkish Neo-Liberals such as Clinton are not in denial, they are simply not at all like the Democrats of the pre "intellectual leveraged buyout of the Party" by the Koch funded DLC, beginning before, but put actively into legislative practice by William J. Clinton and his DLC allies with the assist of Newt Gingrich beginning in 1992 (Welfare destruction, deregulation and tough on mostly minority crime bills) were passed with a purpose, one that continues unto our present day.

They are indeed not in denial or uneducated politically as some may assume, but rather they are like the candidates they support, neo-liberals. Some are also even neocons as well, much like Hillary Clinton.

Many of us call these sort of voters limousine liberals, or latte' liberals but they are something else (more accurate and less derogatory).

I have understood this a long time, most are comfortable financially (not necessarily rich yet many are) but able to always pay their bills, save for retirement, usually live in the 'burbs and own at least two cars (plus a starter car for their teenage child old enough to drive).

They like to consider themselves politically correct, believe in equality just enough to support it verbally and feel "evolved" (while thinking they deserve a badge for doing so) but would never put themselves in harms way for the rights and equality that sound as good to them coming out of their mouths as their own flatulence smells to them coming out of their own asses (they detect a whiff of roses when they breath it in). It becomes hard to ignore that such declarations, formed of methane as they are, are meaningless slogans, with little action to support such claims of "equal rights".

They ARE moderate Republicans (like the ones that no longer exist outside the Democratic party), I remember back when most Republicans were sane and many (certainly not the Goldwater or John Birch types though) believed in civil rights, choice and other equality issues, they were different in that they believed in Republican fiscal values, the old bootstrap philosophy made popular by Ayn Rand (even if the Democratic version would never admit it).

The party is going through a realignment, as parties do over the course of decades, (just as the Republican Party once was the anti-slavery party but have been quite the opposite for a long time now) - The Democratic party is changing into the moderate Republican party of my childhood (except they are far more hawkish than the old Rs used to be). There is no more room for the new Deal, The Great Society, or the working class in this newly realigning party.

The Republicans have also been going through a realignment during the same 35 year period as ours has. One of the reasons one no longer finds Moderate Republicans in the Republican Party, but only in ours, under their new (D) banner. Their realignment has already turned them into the modern equivalent of the John Birch Society wackos of old, but they are not finished yet, just as we are not finished yet.

Once the Realignments of the parties are complete, ours will be fully Republican, with no vestige of economic morality left, even in the "fringe" that was once the heart of the party. The Republicans in their completion will be the Fascist US party (they of course like the brand name they already have, Republican sounds so much like a "Republic" (a form of representative democracy this country was first created to be, and if one believes the bullshit group psychosis still is), so they will never call themselves Fascists.

I suppose the question to the average Citizen is, do you want to be-
A Republican (under a new brand name)?
A Fascist (under a new brand name)?

Or hope the worst of the newly realigned parties self destructs, leaving room in our two party system for some form of labor party like the Democratic party once was (perhaps the Democratic party itself), with a deep belief as well in full equality for all of us and a livable, for our type of mammal, biosphere. (personalty I hope the one turning fascist is the one that self destructs, but that is just me). If/when such, which now appears inevitable, happens, perhaps it will leave the Neoliberal/ Neocon coalition as the party occupying the newly opened space in our two party system to grow in greed and corporate acquiescence, while attempting to promote coups and wars worldwide.

If not, it will leave an open space for those that are not global corporatists and war seeking profiteers to reclaim a newly formed labor party, Those of us so much like the pre 80's Democratic party of Social Democracy made popular for and by the working class and which would again welcome a New Deal, Great Society, Civil Liberty, war on Poverty, and green initiative style of governance that used to hold the spot now held by these "New" Democrats, these "Moderate" Republicans that have taken to wearing those itchy Democratic suits ever since they took over the party of the people and turned it into the party of Corporations, Banks, And war that relies on poverty as the fuel for it's new gilded age dripping with the blood of innocents.

Ours has to be more than a labor party, but it must be that and more, it must also include equality and unity for moral reasons of course, but also for a very pragmatic reason. We need to repair a biosphere so terribly damaged that it will take (all hands on deck in unity) if it is to matter enough, and in time, so that it may continue supporting our form of life rather than succumbing to yet another series of ELEs That will leave our earth very, different and without our species - to have yet another go at continuing it's varying evolution experiments among the remaining species to suit the new environment.

I only ask that you give this perspective some thought, and come to your own conclusions

The dangers to the party if Clinton continues her scorched earth attacks go beyond the discussions

regarding how it will hurt party unity.

There are some things to point out that go beyond party internal damage and loss of registered Democrats that WILL effect the General election and down ticket races that could really hurt our party's numbers in the Senate and House besides potentially losing the presidency if she salts the earth in a frustrated rage against Sanders.


There are larger elephants (or block of voters) in the room that one must understand we will lose


There are the independent voters that have only come out for Bernie (they are Independents because they don't like either party's establishments or corruption) contrary to popular belief, they are mostly to the left of the current Democratic party, but about 30% are just right wing bigots that don't like establishment Republicans (lets call them the Trump revolution), they have been polled and like all the stuff we lost when we abandoned the FDR, LBJ programs and the union factory jobs IOW the american dream.

Of those polled 70% are in favor of left wing (old school policies that are and were Democratized Socialism FDR, LBJ policies and even beyond that), I think they are the displaced and disgusted x Democrats, the only reason the party has not shrunk to lower than the 29% of the population the party lately enjoys, is some were replaced by moderate Republicans in the form of "new Democrats" or DLCers if you prefer that have been forced out of the R party by the John Birch Society loons and Theocrats. You will notice that in open primary States the numbers match and we gain much of that 70% (I) for Sanders in tangible votes, they will go Bernie or Bust, they don't like establishment right wing Democrats like Hillary, we did get some back in the '08 voting cycle but long story short we lost them due to feeling they fell for false advertising (one could argue rightly or wrongly so), but lost again nevertheless This block of voters is crucial to win a GE

There is the younger vote that will mostly only come out for Bernie, they are very well informed (not buying into the Pravda media outlets) tend not to vote in many elections because they see through the establishment and only see themselves losing a future they should have, ecologically and financially and don't see the value in voting to continue the trend.

The ecological part is rather self evident because actual climate change is quite real and will effect them more than the older generations, and being well informed, they see establishment politicians as continuing the fossil fuel favoring industries that support both parties through lobbyists.
Financially they see themselves either falling heavily in debt for college and end up flipping burgers anyway for the most part (some do get good jobs from degrees but far too few and are still in great debt) the rest see college as an unattainable pipe dream and end up flipping burgers or unemployed, many of both groups are forced to live at their parents homes much longer than in past generations This block of voters is crucial to win a GE.

There are the disenchanted, or too busy trying to live non voters that until Bernie showed up had given up on politics long ago as a means to positively affect their lives, most of them are poor which include the terminally unemployed in regions such as mine where all of the jobs outside of clerks at stores and restaurant workers have vanished since NAFTA, and the working poor that work two or three jobs for the privilege of trying to raise a family in poverty even tho they work hard, they are very stressed about things like, can we pay the rent or the utility bill this month and sometimes have to choose, that choice leaving them as prey to the pay day loan sharks. This is the fastest growing demographic as this is the hell you are sent to as the middle class disappears if you are not already born into it as most are. This is the largest group of voters , usually non voters as evidenced by our very low national turnout the last 4 decades, because of this This block of voters is crucial to win a GE.


Now, the 29% or 30% of solid Democrat voters are in a civil war between the traditional (and the only successful for the 99% policy wise) old school FDR LBJ Democrats, and the what would once have been called Moderate Republican "New" Democrats. It is a very real schism in the party.

For all the blustering and anger during the primary they will still probably, for the most part hold their nose and vote for the lesser of two evil Republicans types in the GE, but lacking the three groups I mentioned above that few on DU are talking about we can not win a General election, especially if Hillary wins and unites the Republicans in their common hatred of her that now spans two generations (I personally believe they will break records coming out for the privilege of hate voting against her).

Perhaps enough of the three un-talked about elephants in the room I mentioned will show up to vote with the Democrats against the Republicans, under a Clinton nominee, I have my doubts, but perhaps.

But two things are certain.
One, these three groups will come out in much large numbers for Sanders and polling shows this, and two, if Clinton goes all scorched earth she may actually split the party enough that the nose holding Democrats won't unite this time around around her as they usually do in the end and she will only increase her negative polling, hurting her further with the other three non Republican groups mentioned above and will most assuredly lose us more registered Democrats. JMHO

All that being said, my conclusion is we all lose if she doesn't stop with the frustration induced and ill advised hateful scorched earth policy she appears to be moving toward.

Edited to add due to the Hillary's scorched earth policy deniers that try to revers it as a Sanders thing, how the truth is already known, much like climate change, but much like climate change deniers they will ignore the truth anyway

Many may still be sleeping, but the awakening has begun!

In their somnolence many are only dimly aware of lies and propaganda as told by the corporate owned media and thus some support a candidate that openly and habitually lies to them in order to continue serving her masters that have already made her a multimillionaire by doing their bidding at our expense.

However some dreamers have awakened! Many no longer follow the mcpravda media and are seeing with their own newly opened eyes as their lives and livelihoods fall apart all around them while the billionaires capture all the wealth created by the work and effort of those that see themselves falling either from middle class into the working poor, or from the poor to the desperately impoverished. while at the same time witnessing the once solid safety nets put into place to keep them safe and fed, free from the horrid conditions of more Dickensian times being ripped to shreds little by little before their eyes, with both parties complicit in their destruction.

One need look no farther than a Republican stump speech or the more cleverly hidden common goals of the new Democrats that have become Vichy collaborators that hide their plans in the open to destroy those safeguards against complete hopelessness by perusing the chapters of the PPI or Third Way sites where they scheme with the (john Birch Society Transformed) Republican party to not only recreate the gilded age (which they have already done).

But to surpass it via the now global neo-liberalism and it's trade deals to the bottom, it's austerity, it's privatization of all the nations commons, it's near enslavement of all the worlds workers, and it's desired complete destruction of any semblance of a middle class in an insane attempt to create the wealthiest class ever, which will create the poorest population conceivable.

The new generations are fully awake however and are beginning to feel their power and the power of unity that will in time destroy the depravities and horrors of completely unchecked Capitalism via revolution. The question becomes when and how at this point, the people united win!!! Once after a depression a man and his political revolution saved us from the very same plan at this very same stage, by mixing Socialism with Capitalism and regulating it and thereby defanging the beast of it's venom.

His name was Franklin D. Roosevelt. WE that are awake, those that are awakening, and those of a younger generation not polluted by propaganda must either unite again in a similar political revolution, or else they WILL succeed with their Dickensian utopia until such a time as a different sort of Revolution occurs - one involving a great deal of blood, death, and in the end a victor that may or may not be any better than the ruling elite that it defeats, that is if it defeats it at all the first go around

For the sake of us all, I hope we make the better choice for all of humanity as this is history folks and history almost always ends up with the bloody revolution. However unlike in the past, we are facing an Extinction level event that threatens many of the lifeforms on the planet including humanity itself and so we lack the luxury of time and blood soaked streets and the turmoil that follows such ever recurring events before things settle and we begin to repair the damage being done to the biosphere that supports us.

Not to be an alarmist, but the alarm has already sounded and we not only need to fight and win a political revolution and defeat the plutocrats, we must restore balance and sanity again, but we must do so quickly.

We must unite as well and stop being divided by minor differences within our species (in truth there is only one human race regardless of melanin content, shape of eye, differences in sex organs, or varying choices of sexuality and we need to wake up from meaningless differences very quickly if we are to survive) we absolutely must unify and do so quickly..

There is no more time to play history's games of the wealthy siphoning everything until a revolution occurs, or the games of racism, sexism, or any other isms.

For time is too short and not only must the quality of life of the struggling and ever more impoverished masses be resolved, but unity must happen or not only will the impoverished grow hungry, but the entire human race will cease to exist.

We have run out of time to play the DNC and RNC games and fully awaken not only to live well, but to live at all.
The Younger generation has begun to glean this and so must we all, and unfortunately time is so short that such grand goals with such high stakes must begin by winning a simple yet difficult to win political revolution happening in this very election. Made so unnecessarily difficult by pure, short sighted ridiculous greed of people like the Clintons, their third way and the Republicans.


Let us all awaken now!!!!

I have examined where my loyalties lie, you judge, I'll explain my position.

From my perspective, the party I joined thirty nine years ago was a party I believed in and so gave my loyalty, It was the party of The New Deal, The Great Society and at the time I joined also the party of civil liberty, equal rights and a war against poverty. I see a party in 2016 that is not that party. The question of my loyalty now becomes murky. I think my loyalty now only belongs to my class and because Bernie Sanders shares this loyalty to my class, I must support him every way possible.

So many in the party leadership and the party overall are comfortable and this place of comfort has made them cold to the reality that is daily life for a great many people.

They make many assumptions from ivory towers of middle class or wealth with little awareness it would seem of those that are lower middle class (quickly falling into poverty even tho they work harder with multiple McJobs than they did before lower middle class meant poverty).

As to the poor - they seem completely oblivious to them and convince themselves that welfare reform didn't harm anybody, I know Hill and Bill believe this, but it did and does to this day I assure you, it was not a pragmatic solution to a "welfare queen" problem handled well because a Democrat helped to all but destroy it. It will not be a brave pragmatic solution to "earned benefit queens" they will likely label SS beneficiaries, as they collude yet again with republicans to begin to shred these last vestiges of the new deal and great society.

They cause the poor to become poorer still while so many in the party applaud the politicians responsible. Their applause and support are what make them just as responsible as their political idols.

They think this is a game, or a sport with my team and their team, not realizing or caring that the ball that is tossed around in this sport is a child that only gets to eat at school and will soon lose that food, or the ball is an elderly widow or widower that can only afford to take their medicine every other day or maybe will freeze to death in a small flat during a winter they could not pay their gas bill (this happens ALREADY where I live).

There are many other balls tossed around for their sport and amusement, too many to list them all here, some are dead or dying, some are living under a tarp in a vacant lot hoping the cops don't roust them or the suburban teenagers don't decide to slum it and amuse themselves by assaulting them while laughing and taunting the "bum" for cell phone footage. Some of these comfortable people give advice to "the poor that in fact do OK" as a famous DLC Democrat once said. One of the Conservative DU posters once even suggested dumpster diving as a viable and reasonable option.

Too many of them applaud policies and politicians that make all these problems worse, they need to get it through their heads, many are dying and more will die of poverty, this is no game and the poor aren't doing OK, they are doing worse all the time with less help available all the time.

It is not serious, pragmatic, or brave to cause more people to suffer and die in poverty because it is referred to flippantly as "eating peas" or "being adult". It is not pragmatic even when the ones shipping away the jobs or destroying welfare "feel your pain". It never was bravery, but cowardice. It is not balanced when an increasing number of people fall into poverty and die while others become wealthier at an exponential rate.

The punditry, politicians, and comfortable may think it is a fun sport full of serious brave adults that make hard decisions.

Cowards all really, making easy decisions, easy because their decisions don't harm them, but rather the poor they barely acknowledge exist for the profit of the wealthy.

Sometimes they even have the gall to pat themselves on the back and reassure each other "the poor in fact do OK".

I feel very sincerely about these class and poverty issues, I give my loyalty completely to the forgotten, struggling and increasingly poor working classes that birthed me. You decide if that makes me disloyal to a party that has all but forgotten us save for donations and Pyrrhic election victories, because I will fight tooth and nail against any one of them or any elected Democrat that is harmful to my class, in other words harmful to most of America.

For these reasons and others, my loyalties now lie only with Bernie Sanders, politicians that share his views, and the revolution that is necessary if we are to fight and win against overwhelming odds, a fight I take on for my class, the very survival of countless people, and for a better future to leave behind for our younger generations.

Any candidate that would actively try to divide Americans across racial and cultural lines

Then attempt to foster hatred of each group against the other is harmful not just to the process but to the innocent people they are trying to divide into racial political wars, even if it is only an attempt to do so temporarily (as they likely tell themselves), just until an election is won, it is deplorable behavior and often seen used by hate groups across the globe.


This is becoming a pattern from the Clinton Campaign.
Incredibly well-respected surrogates sent out to attack Bernie or his supporters, get some pushback, accuse Sanders and his supporters of racism and/or sexism for pointing out the smear isn't true. It's sickening and cynical and divisive. I expect this stuff from Repugs- this divisiveness from the Clinton camp is heartbreaking.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511300567#post4.


Brock is a big part of this (pit one poor race against another) in order to win victories designed to profit the wealthy at the expense of all the people that will suffer under their trickle down neoliberal policies which will harm all of us struggling people no matter the race, but those that hire them also have a history of agitating people to hate by race and so are just as, if not more, accountable for such deplorable tactics.

It is a tactic often used by the wealthy in order to keep the power and money while continuing to steal even more in the face of glaring wide spread wealth disparity across all racial and social lines, In war the tactic is called divide and conquer, the wealthy have throughout history done this at the point where the difference between the rich and poor becomes widespread and apparent.

A true leader on the other hand, one that wants to help all the people historically tries to bring all the people together to fight the aristocracy.

It is clear which candidate is following which tactic, just as it is clear which candidate is little more than the puppet of the wealthy and attempting to win yet more of their favor. Such candidates often acquire excessive wealth during their lapdog tenures practically rubbing it in our faces (how much wealth have the "public servants" the Clintons acquired again, and from whom?)

The honest candidate, not swayed by or wiling to be used by by an uncontrolled group that worships at the altar of greed often lives a relatively normal lifestyle, not depending on acquiring wealth in order to achieve their version of a happy life, again which candidate more closely represents this lifestyle?

I have told you of tactics as old as the existence of extreme wealth at the expense of others. In your hearts the signs of their use are evident, some would say axiomatic.

I have also told you of some common traits of leaders on the side of the populace.

There is enough for you to decide for yourself which side you are on. And who is on your side as well.


choose well.

Who would ever want to ask our young people to scale back their dreams and goals?

...politicians like Clinton are schooling young people to expect less and ask for less. It's a campaign - inspire people, especially young people, who will have to deal with the mess once we middle-aged and older people have passed on. What will we leave for them??? So glad that Sanders is putting these perspectives into the political conversation, and it's up to us to turn it into policy!!...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1221556


IMO Bernie's approach gives them the opportunity to fight for idealistic things, Clinton's Me my banks and I approach would discourage fighting for or dreaming of a future they want, a future they need, telling us instead to rely on her and others like her to compromise away the fight in favor of "getting things done"
One can only assume by finding common ground with a John Birch Society/near fascistic Republican party, something she claims only she can do.

If her Mentors Bill Clinton, and Henry Kissinger are any indication of how she would "get things done" it would not only mean giving up on fighting and dreaming of a better, more equitable future, it would mean compromises that favor the wealthy, cut funding for the needy (and likely encourage more profit from college dept), more private prisons and more quotas to fill them, and more free trade that represents corporate interests that will send more jobs overseas leaving our youth nothing but service jobs at a min wage where she would begin negotiations at $12/hr and "compromise" on something less. Those compromises represent the Bill Clinton Mentorship.

The values she learned from her good friend and mentor Henry Kissinger will leave our young people another option to min wage jobs, a career in the military as she will continue along the path (one of her only consistent paths) to fight in wars sometimes preemptively as per her faith in the Bush Doctrine, as well as engaging in regime change across the world including but not limited to overthrowing Democratically elected leaders in favor of any blood-thirsty warlord that will agree to allow US corporate interests to thrive, let's call that the Kissinger doctrine (or what he calls a pragmatic use of our military might to help further our country's interests

They (the younger generation) deserve a chance to fight rather than have no power as the chosen establishment pieces move about the board compromising away their hopes, dreams, and futures.

I want them to have the chance that we did when we fought the good fight and achieved some of our liberal goals. They decided (our party in the eighties, culminating in '92) that there would no longer be a party to fight with the idealistic youth for things like labor rights, The New Deal, The Great Society, Civil Liberties, Equality for Women and the last attempted fight that died on the vine, the fight against poverty that was abandoned in favor of a fight against the poor via welfare reform.

They deserve to fight for these things as we did, not because they are easy, but because they are necessary to their survival.

They deserve more than the smell of sulfur that summons forth a demon of lesser evil that says "no you can't!" - "I will compromise away your fight for you so you may have the crumbs my corporate sponsors allow you to have."

They deserve the right to fight as well as leadership that will help rather than hinder that fight.
We all had that (us older folk) but took it for granted. They have only had dismissal and the lack of support offered by Vichy Republican collaborators.

Let us help them elect someone (many ones) that will allow them to fight.

"We must reinstate Glass-Steagall & HOLD BANKS ACCOUNTABLE WHEN THEY BREAK THE LAW"

Without question or reservation!!!!

Unfortunately, due to statements I foolishly believed in 2008, I don't know if I can believe such rhetoric in this modern political age where 180s are common and there are such stark differences in policies those we elect actually fight for as compared to the policies they promised they would fight for while they ran for the office..

It makes me wonder if we can take any absolutely agreeable statements such as this (which I personally would back 100%) with anything other than a grain of salt.

Our candidates need to gain our trust again unfortunately, I must not be alone in such feelings after watching the past couple of decades unfold. I can't be the only one that feels it is more common that candidates are trying to con us rather than state what they would do if we elect them.

I hate my cynicism, but to be honest, the way I worked and how I felt about the party in '08 and what I thought I was fighting for, my energy my hopes, my trust, where brought to great heights and then mercilessly crushed by the reality that followed.

I haven't felt such cynicism since iran contra proved that great crimes could be committed, were being committed and yet people were held above the law as even the most damaging crimes began to be swept under the rug habitually with few exceptions as if a new caste was born that were to be held completely above our laws.

There is also the cynicism born of believing a party would support workers, our rights, our liberties and our prospects of achieving prosperity through our hard work only to watch even our most cherished representatives sell out our futures enabling instead the continued policies that ever favored capital over labor, greed over the law and which sold our well being to those that now hold so much of the wealth created by our labor and increased productivity that we have not seen such disparity since the gilded age.

Also, the cynicism of watching as our war on poverty became the war on the poor often worsening the plight of those with the least in the most bipartisan of callous lawmaking even in the face of an ever increasing rate of poverty and despair.



I wish I was young enough to hear those perfect words and other such great words and react with the positive energy of one that hears a voice of reason fighting for me in a wilderness of corruption, but I will never be that young again, or that able to trust again.


I may believe some of what they say, but only if their actions have proven consistently that they would do as their words claim, only then could my trust be had again I think, hopefully not to be crushed yet again.

New Democrats, The DLC and the Third Way


President Bill Clinton with Al From, president of the Democratic Leadership Council, at a conference in 2000.

New Democrats, in the politics of the United States, are an ideologically centrist faction within the Democratic Party that emerged after the victory of Republican George H. W. Bush in the 1988 presidential election. They are identified with centrist social/cultural/pluralist positions and neoliberal fiscal values. They are represented by organizations such as the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), the New Democrat Network, and the Senate and House New Democrat Coalitions

After the landslide electoral losses to Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, a group of prominent Democrats began to believe their party was in need of a radical shift in economic policy and ideas of governance. The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) was founded in 1985 by Al From and a group of like-minded politicians and strategists. They advocated a political "Third Way" as a method to achieve the electoral successes of Reaganism by adopting similar economic policies (Reagan Democrats and Moderate Republicans would provide burgeoning new constituencies after adding these new economic policies and politicians to our tent they contended) While hoping to retain, woman, minorities and other social issues allies with long ties to the party. Such would be their new Democratic coalition forged between fiscal right and social left under the "New" Democratic banner. The DLC disbanded in 2011 during an apparent re-branding of the New Democrat movement when money ties to the Koch bros. and Koch representatives placed on the DLC's board embarrassingly became common knowledge among the Democratic left. The DLC is survived by the Third Way, The New Democrat Coalition, and Al From's Progressive Policy Institute among other corporate funded groups that continue to sell their Economic-Right/Social-Left brand of "Centrism" to America.



The term Third Way refers to various political positions which try to reconcile right-wing and left-wing politics by advocating a varying synthesis of right-wing economic and left-wing social policies.

Third Way was created as a serious re-evaluation of political policies within various center-right progressive movements in response to international doubt regarding the economic viability of the state; economic interventionist policies that had previously been popularized by Keynesianism and contrasted with the corresponding rise of popularity for neo liberalism and the New Right. In a sense, 80s Moderate Republicans are almost identical to "Third Way" Democrats.

I strongly believe it's time for a serious re-evaluation of political policies within various center-left progressive movements in response to international doubt regarding the economic viability of the neoliberal corporate policies previously popularized by Reagan and Thatcher! For thirty years we have all but abandoned liberal solutions to economic problems, chasing instead the snake oil of supply side economics, austerity and neoliberal trade policy. These right wing policies have failed miserably, and rather than learn from the New Democrats failed experiments, the center-right faction of the democratic party has chosen instead to double down on failure with more free trade and austerity measures (to include cuts to Social Security).

In the face of a new gilded age of extreme wealth contrasted by an exponentially growing rate of poverty,  a rapidly shrinking middle class and the emergence of an elite class of  bankers, politicians and other predatory behemoths that are held firmly above the law and enabled to steal the remaining crumbs of wealth held by the masses without repercussion, it is not only time to return to Democratic principles of old that created the strongest most prosperous middle class in our history, it is time to reverse the damage done by the right thinking "New" Democrats and their failed policies with a new populism based on the needs of the people over the elite.

We do not need a "Fourth Way" to accomplish this, all we need is a return to the fundamentals of Keynesianism, a strong commitment to labor, increased spending on social programs (rather than cuts), progressive taxation, and an end to the cancer of privatization that would reduce the commons and the basic needs of the populace (such as health care and drinking water etc.) into the cash cows of profiteers of human suffering

Time to dump the "Third Way" for the unquestionably effective "Democratic way" made successful by the New Deal, The Great Society, and civil liberties. Our party can not serve two masters, the choice is clear, they must serve the financial elite, or the economically struggling populace

My choice has already been made.
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