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Member since: Fri Sep 17, 2004, 03:59 PM
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The Good Old USA "actually tortured its own informants at one point.”

“Among the many abuses the Senate Intelligence Committee found in its report on the CIA’s torture program, perhaps one of the more embarrassing for the CIA is that the agency actually tortured its own informants at one point.”


a little more:
3. The two psychologists who helped the CIA create the torture techniques earned over $81 million.

“In 2006, the value of the CIA’s base contract with the company formed by the psychologists with all options exercised was in excess of $180 million; the contractors received $81 million prior to the contract’s termination in 2009. In 2007, the CIA provided a multi-year indemnification agreement to protect the company and its employees from legal liability arising out of the program. The CIA has since paid out more than $1 million pursuant to the agreement.”

7. The CIA tortured innocent people.

“Of the 119 known detainees that were in CIA custody during the life of the program, at least 26 were wrongfully held. Detainees often remained in custody for months after the CIA determined they should not have been detained….Other KSM fabrications led the CIA to capture and detain suspected terrorists who were later found to be innocent.”

11. The CIA dismissed information that wasn’t obtained through torture, even though it proved to be true.

“KSM’s reporting during his first day in CIA custody included an accurate description of a Pakistani/British operative, which was dismissed as having been provided during the initial “‘throwaway’ stage” of information collection when the CIA believed detainees provided false or worthless information.’”

much more:


The Senate report proves once and for all that torture didn't lead us to Osama bin Laden


According to internal CIA records cited in the Senate report, key intelligence on Kuwaiti — "including information the CIA would later cite as pivotal" in finding Bin Laden — was acquired by 2002.

The sources included:

An email address the agency linked to Kuwaiti.

A phone number found in the records of several people close to bin Laden.

Interrogations of detainees by unspecified foreign governments.

Phone taps on various other individuals linked to al-Qaeda.

As the Senate report details, the CIA didn't acquire any intelligence on al-Kuwaiti via torture until 2003.

The CIA had begun trying to find and identify al-Kuwaiti well before any of that information was in.


"Forced Rectal Feeding"

The CIA forced some detainees who had broken feet or legs to stand in stress-inducing positions, despite having earlier pledged that they wouldn’t subject those wounded individuals to treatment that might exacerbate their injuries.

Forced Rectal Feeding and Worse

At least five detainees were subjected to “rectal feeding” or “rectal hydration,” without any documented medical need. Others were deprived of sleep, which could involve staying awake for up to 180 hours—sometimes standing, sometimes with their hands shackled above their heads.

Some detainees were forced to walk around naked, or shackled with their hands above their heads. In other instances, naked detainees were hooded and dragged up and down corridors while subject to physical abuse.

At one facility, detainees were kept in total darkness and shackled in cells with loud noise or music, and only a bucket to use for waste.

No Blockbuster Intelligence

the rest:http:



In all parts of our politics, the compass of acceptable ideas gets more tightly circumscribed by the money power. In all parts of our politics, the number of people on whose behalf the government works gets more tightly circumscribed by the money power. In all parts of our politics, the number of people that the government recognizes at all gets more tightly circumscribed. Increasingly, in all parts of our politics, and within the institutions of government, as the redoubtable Driftglass always reminds us, there is a club and you're not in it.

As a consequence, individuals seeking to challenge large companies are left to seek counsel from a pool of attorneys that's smaller and, collectively, less successful. The court generally has a conservative, pro-business majority, but even one of its most liberal justices, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, accepts the corporate tilt of the specialist bar that dominates the docket."Business can pay for the best counsel money can buy. The average citizen cannot," Ginsburg said. "That's just a reality."


Michael Luttig, general counsel for aerospace giant Boeing Co., understands the advantages of hiring from that group; he has done so when the company has had a case before the justices. But as a former U.S. appeals court judge who earlier served as a Supreme Court clerk, he says he also sees a downside. "It has become a guild, a narrow group of elite justices and elite counsel talking to each other," Luttig said. The court and its bar have grown "detached and isolated from the real world, ultimately at the price of the healthy and proper development of the law."

If a guy making almost $3 million representing a corporate leviathan like Boeing thinks the game is fixed, perhaps the rest of us should, too. Like so many other things that have gone badly wrong for the political commonwealth, this also began with the election of Ronald Reagan.

The rise of that specialty bar can be traced to the mid-1980s, when President Reagan's first solicitor general, Rex Lee, joined the Washington office of Sidley Austin. Demand had grown for lawyers who could help corporations roll back workplace, environmental and consumer regulations that had roots in the late 1960s and early 1970s. At Sidley Austin, Lee launched a high court practice focused on business clients. In the next two years, he argued a remarkable eight cases before the Supreme Court. By the time Lee died in 1996, other large firms were creating their own Supreme Court practices, largely on behalf of business interests. The star appellate lawyers, by virtue of the appeals they write and sign, help the justices winnow the pool of cases the court considers. Typically, the Supreme Court agrees to hear just 5 percent of the petitions filed by private attorneys. It accepts 21 percent of the cases bearing the name of a leading advocate. "They basically are just a step ahead of us in identifying the cases that we'll take a look at," said Justice Anthony Kennedy. "They are on the front lines and they apply the same standards" as the justices do.

As should be obvious, there is absolutely no public service component to this phenomenon. It helps the aging justices "winnow" their dockets. but it does so in such a way that it excludes the vast majority of the American people that may have cases regarding why they can catch their breathing air in a coffee can or light their drinking water on fire. Read the whole thing, as the kidz say. This is how a Gilded Age grows -- in the dark, moist corners of the most important places in the country.

the rest:

If faux-patriotic warmongers hadn't tortured anyone in 1st place-there would be no fucking report

No, releasing a report endangers nobody!
Actually TORTURING people endangered those lives!
If the faux-patriotic warmongers hadn't tortured anyone in the first place, there would be no fucking report.

"Should any American soldier be so base and infamous as to injure any prisoner. . . I do most earnestly enjoin you to bring him to such severe and exemplary punishment as the enormity of the crime may require.
Should it extend to death itself, it will not be disproportional to its guilt at such a time and in such a cause... for by such conduct they bring shame, disgrace and ruin to themselves and their country."

- George Washington, charge to the Northern Expeditionary Force, Sept. 14, 1775

The defense failed, and the accused were convicted. Note that the Germans were able to demonstrate a process of maintaining discipline and punishing officers who disobeyed the rules of verschärfte Vernehmung (enhanced interrogation). By contrast, the Bush Administration has arguably (not) brought a single case of prosecution, against hundreds of documented cases of extreme abuse — including a great number documented by the FBI. So while there are distinctions to be drawn between the German practice of verschärfte Vernehmung and the Bush Administration’s “enhanced interrogation techniques,” a good many of these distinctions cut in favor of the Germans.

And let’s recall: what was the sentence the Norwegian war crimes court deemed appropriate for those convicted of the use of verschärfte Vernehmung? Death.


and yet........

'They Tried To Bury Us They Didn't Know We Were Seeds'

Incredible! @harvardmed students stage powerful protests.


We tortured others in the name of God. So where’s your God now?

Congress is afraid of the backlash. Members of the former administration are afraid of violence and death. The intelligence community is afraid – and the CIA is terrified. Foreign leaders are afraid.

And they should be.

Very likely there will be blood and violence. Very likely it will be the blood of innocent civilians and violence against US forces that had nothing to do with torture.

That’s the price we’re going to pay for this dirty shameful dishonor.

That’s the price we’re all going to pay for cowardly faceless men who traded their duty, and their honor, and their humanity for expediency and revenge and political advantage.

That’s the price we’re going to pay for religion. We tortured others in the name of God. So where’s your God now? If we are so righteous, where’s his protection and why are you so goddamned afraid?

If you’re afraid of what will happen when people find out that you’ve been torturing people, then maybe YOU SHOULDN’T GO AROUND TORTURING PEOPLE.

The coming violence, well, Folks, that’s the price we’re going to pay for selling our souls cheap.


Dick Cheney Was Lying About Torture - It’s official: torture doesn’t work.

Dick Cheney Was Lying About Torture
By Mark Fallon

It’s official: torture doesn’t work. Waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of 9/11, did not in fact “produce the intelligence that allowed us to get Osama bin Laden," as former Vice President Dick Cheney asserted in 2011. Those are among the central findings of the Senate Intelligence Committee report on CIA interrogation and detention after 9/11

The report’s executive summary is expected to be released Tuesday. After reviewing thousands of the CIA’s own documents, the committee has concluded that torture was ineffective as an intelligence-gathering technique. Torture produced little information of value, and what little it did produce could’ve been gained through humane, legal methods that uphold American ideals.

I was aware of no valuable information that came from waterboarding. And the Senate Intelligence Committee—which had access to all CIA documents related to the “enhanced interrogation” program—has concluded that abusive techniques didn’t help the hunt for Bin Laden. Cheney’s claim that the frequent waterboarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed “produced phenomenal results for us" is simply false.


Marcy Wheeler, the brilliant scholar-blogger who has for years pried deeply into available sources to come up with her extraordinary analyses of some of America's darker moments, points out that torturing information out of captives was only one part of the reason for doing so. Recruiting spies and spreading propaganda were two others.

And the purpose of that propaganda? Tying Iraq to al Qaeda and raising the threat of nuclear or dirty bomb terror:

Then it raises the really horrible possibility that Cheney pushed torture because it would produce the stories he wanted told. It would be difficult to distinguish whether Cheney believed this stuff and therefore that’s what the torture produced or whether Cheney wanted these stories told and that’s what the torture produced.
As Steven Kleinman said in an important Jason Leopold and Jeff Kaye story on this subject, the torture CIA used was designed to get false confessions, not accurate information:

“This is the guidebook to getting false confessions, a system drawn specifically from the communist interrogation model that was used to generate propaganda rather than intelligence,” Kleinman said in an interview. “If your goal is to obtain useful and reliable information this is not the source book you should be using.”

The people who approved torture had the means of knowing—should have known—it would elicit false confessions. It’s just that no one can prove whether that was the entire point or not.


The insane narrative you are supposed to believe about the torture report

CIA APOLOGISTS: "...this will be used by our enemies to motivate people to attack Americans and American facilities overseas,”

......to suggest that this Senate report will really tip the scales when it comes to the United States’ enemies rallying support, you have to believe that the following exchange is happening somewhere in the Middle East:

ABDUL: Ahmed, why won’t you come with me to attack the infidels? You are not outraged that the United States has invaded Afghanistan and Iraq and caused so much suffering in two Muslim countries?

AHMED: It’s not enough for me to take up arms.

ABDUL: You are not outraged that in the past three years the great Zionist oppressor has waged air campaigns against two Arab countries — Syria and Libya — and accomplished little but to extend the suffering of our Muslim brothers and sisters?

AHMED: It’s not enough for me to take up arms.

ABDUL: You are not outraged that the great Western imperialist power has launched drone strikes with impunity in two other countries — Yemen and Pakistan — killing scores of innocent Muslim families in the process?

AHMED: It’s not enough for me to take up arms.

ABDUL: You are not outraged that the infidel superpower has defended Israel as that Zionist pig-state has done nothing but displace, bomb and humiliate our Palestinian brothers and sisters?

AHMED: It’s not enough for me to take up arms.

ABDUL: You are not outraged that two successive U.S. presidents, in two flowery speeches, have claimed that the United States wants to bring human rights and democracy to the Middle East, only to tolerate authoritarian crackdowns in Egypt and the Gulf states?

AHMED: It’s not enough for me to take up arms.

ABDUL: You are not outraged about all the stories of infidels torturing our Muslim brothers in Abu Ghraib, in Bagram, in Guantanamo Bay? The stories about infidel soldiers desecrating the Koran?

AHMED: It’s not enough for me to take up arms.

ABDUL: You are not outraged by the just-released Senate report about CIA torture?

AHMED: Wait, did you say ‘Senate report’? Okay, I will take up arms now.


Ferguson grand jury documents withheld

Neither the audio recording nor the transcript of Johnson's FBI interview was included in the materials released.
KSDK in St. Louis has the story.

A team of investigative reporters from around the country reviewed the transcripts released by McCulloch's office, which included law enforcement interviews with 24 witnesses. Most conspicuous in its absence was the joint federal-county interview with the witness who had been closest to the deadly confrontation, Michael Brown's friend Dorian Johnson.

McCulloch's office blamed the Feds:

McCulloch's executive assistant, Ed Magee, said the office released everything it still had when the case was closed, but had "turned over and relinquished control" of some FBI's interviews conducted in connection with the shooting.

There is one problem with this story that must be noted. The KSDK piece says:

McCulloch's office labeled the witness interview transcripts it released by witness number, up to Witness #64. But only 24 different witnesses' interviews with law enforcement were included in the information released.



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