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Gender: Female
Hometown: South East Michigan
Home country: United States
Member since: Tue Jul 27, 2004, 12:19 PM
Number of posts: 8,706

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It has been a rough couple of weeks. **UPDATED**

I have been dealing with a young (23 years old) family member who appears to be suffering from an undiagnosed mental illness.

On Tuesday I stood in front of a judge with copies of half a dozen police reports to explain why I am legitimately in fear of her harming herself or others. The reports range from an "abuse/neglect" case involving her then boyfriend causing her 22-month old son to require brain surgery (the baby is now in the care of her mother, or as the family member calls her, "the devil") to larceny charges incurred by stealing from her 74-year old grandmother, with a bonus "kicked the window out of a police car when placed under arrest", through last week's suicide threats, which she made multiple times but denied when questioned by police officers.

The judge signed the order very quickly. I don't think the suicide plan from last week (two days of hell that started when she was fired after eight days on a job due to "attitude") was what did it, or the menacing/breaking the "no-contact" order with the grandmother; I think it was when I explained that foster care had put in a "no contact" order after she had verbally abused her mother in front of them by stating "you used your vagina to put a roof over our heads, and I am not going to do that." Do I have to add that her mother is an office worker/not a sex worker?

She and her partner - her baby's father, not the boyfriend who put their son in the hospital - are currently homeless/living in her car. He works at McDonalds. Family cannot / will not take them in due to her unpredictable mental state. She verbally abuses her partner at levels I simply cannot comprehend, and nearly brags about how she has at least six domestic violence reports against him from when they lived on the other side of the state. She waved this in front of me during our last talk as her "security" - she told me she could always go to a domestic violence shelter, and they would take care of her. Her partner would have no shelter or transport, and is controlled by her as a result. (They only have one incident together here - her trying to get her grandmother arrested by hitting herself in the face/claiming grandma did it doesn't count, right?)

My plan was to have her escorted for evaluation at her next court appearance (Thursday morning) but she found out Wednesday evening. A very nice deputy took the paperwork and escorted her to the facility; he then explained to me that she and her partner didn't want any further contact with me, and if I did attempt to contact her, I could be charged with harassment. They were done with me now.

I nearly burst out laughing, but contained myself lest it become hysterical. I had already dealt with her earlier screaming threats aimed at me and my children ("I will ruin your life! I will open a CPS case! I will make sure you regret this forever! You are a liar! You said you would help me! I have always triumphed over my enemies and I will triumph over you! I will destroy you!" Etc.) so my instinctive "Promise?" is understandable, but I did not say it out loud. I heard "stay away" multiple times during the suicide drill, and she texts it frequently in between asking for help/meeting for meals, etc. This was the first time a police officer had relayed the message, along with the implicit threat, and I was torn about asking him just how seriously he was taking it, considering the place where we were at and the paperwork he had seen?

But I didn't. I could see doubt in his eyes - she can present "calmly" on occasion, and maybe he thought she was being persecuted or something. Heaven knows she does. I finished making sure the staff was aware of her issues by high lighting important bits, and left. HIPPA means I will have to rely on others to know whether they decide to keep her for more than 24-hours. She had told me she would kill herself if she was forced into a hospital, and I am trusting they can keep her safe. I had made arrangements for her boyfriend to have shelter (the car is hers and he has no license/his last arrest was for driving on a suspended license), but after the policeman's warning, I didn't call him again. (I did make sure the helper had his number, so hopefully he is going to be okay.)

It has been a rough couple of weeks. I did not take this step lightly, and am confident it was the right decision. The up/down mood swings have been getting shorter in duration and more violent in intensity. She cannot understand why the world isn't working the way she expects it to - she *knows more than EVERYBODY* and they should listen to her! - and when they don't, when the police officers and the doctors and the lawyers and the shelter workers and the social workers and her supervisors and anyone in authority tries to tell her how to behave, or that her decision making might be in error, she just cannot Get It and she explodes in epic verbal tirades. The number one question every time law enforcement has had to deal with her: is there a drug problem? And the answer is no, we don't think so - she is tested regularly during the supervised visitation, and also during the week she spent in jail last month. It doesn't seem to be a drug issue, and she is in the age range when these types of issues traditionally start to manifest....

I am left with the questions that have me awake and posting on a message board in the middle of the night. Will she be able to fool them? Am I wrong about her being mentally ill? Will they be able to help her? Only time will tell.

It's been a rough couple of weeks....

ON UPDATE: They released her within hours. The cycle continues....

Thank you, everyone for your support. I wish there was a better system for getting people who need help what they need.

Because seeing your dad HIT YOUR MOTHER is no reason not to have lunch with him.


Siblings thrown in juvie hall for refusing to see dad

Pontiac An Oakland County judge who sent three children to a juvenile detention facility for failing to maintain a "healthy relationship" with their father calls the case one of the worst examples of parental alienation she's ever seen, according to court records.

Judge Lisa Gorcyca ordered the children ages 9, 10 and 15 to Children's Village on June 24 for civil contempt of court after they refused to have lunch with or talk to their father. The children's parents have been involved in a contentious divorce dispute since 2009.


The children a 15-year-old boy, a 10-year-old boy and a 9-year-old girl are permitted visits with their father and attorney while at Children's Village, but not with their mother or her side of the family. The order states "the siblings are to be kept away from each other as much as possible."


According to the court transcript, the 15-year-old apologized to Gorcyca but said he was not going to apologize to his father because he had done nothing wrong. He also alleged his father was violent and said he had seen him hit his mother, "so I'm not going to talk to him." Gorcyca reminded the boy that his father had never been charged with any offenses and that he loved his children and wanted to spend time with them.

(more at link)

According to the story, the CHILDREN are represented by attorneys (court appointed) who did NOT object and in my opinion need to be fired.

The judge is an idiot who apparently doesn't understand how victims of abuse can be angry.

After all, it is just their MOTHER. He loves them, so what's the problem?

Almost told an alerter to perform obscene acts on himself.

I was more offended by the alert than the post being alerted on.

Kept my cool, and hoping for a 0-7 keep it.

Jury duty.


Can someone explain this hidden post to me?

Apparently four members of our community found it outrageous enough to be hidden and I don't get it:


For those who don't want to click the link, let me share the context, because this one is a DUzy:


That's it. A bunch of PERIODS. Apparently, similar posts weren't offensive because they were allowed to stay, but this one: HIDDEN.

Yes, a DUer just got a HIDE for what appears to be the crime of "gratuitous kicking" of a thread I wrote on June 5, 2015 that received (as of now) 355 RECS, 680 REPLIES, and nearly 20,000 VIEWS.

Apparently, the fact that at least ONE DUer did not want the discussion about NYC_SKP, Internet reputation and the value posters bring to a forum to end meant the jury system had to be abused.

Or maybe these are the community standards? After all, just because the poster who provided the catalyst for my post had been here for years, donated money to this site, and posted tens of thousands of times, is really no reason to keep POSTING about it, right? It was, like, THREE WEEKS AGO so let's all just MOVE ON and throw a jury hide on anyone who thinks the issues I raised in my post The latest "banning" (NYC_SKP) is an interesting lesson on REPUTATION. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6783883 were worthy of further discussion.


Walk me through it, please. I think I get it, but I really want to be wrong.

Racism = Mental Illness. Good to know even Faux now agrees.

And the Republicans, too.

That is what all the "the boy was mentally ill which is why he was reading and promoting white supremacist nonsense, plus insisting he wanted to kill black people, then, you know, killing black people - he was mentally ill and now we should discuss the state of mental health care available in this country" rhetoric means, right?

Proud to be an American today.

Never thought they would admit it, but now that they have jumped on the bandwagon, let us welcome them to the sanity train.

Racism is a Mental Illness.

Question submitted by IdaBriggs

The text of this question will be publicly available after it has been reviewed and answered by a DU Administrator. Please be aware that sometimes messages are not answered immediately. Thank you for your patience. --The DU Administrators

The latest "banning" (NYC_SKP) is an interesting lesson on REPUTATION.

ON EDIT: I accidentally copy/pasted the post in duplicate - my apologies!

NYC_SKP and I are on good terms outside of DU; we met here, extended the relationship to Facebook and have spoken on the phone several times.

He is not a misogynist, a racist or a homophobe. He is a California Democrat, currently supporting Bernie Sanders (not a Republican), and personally has a long history of political activism in favor of causes near and dear to the hearts of most people on this board. His "real life" credentials are excellent.

On DU he has continued his tradition of service by acting as a moderator in a major forum back in "the olden days", then host in half a dozen forums on DU3. His participation over tens of thousands of posts was polite, respectful and courteous enough that his hide level is nearly non-existent. He has regularly made financial donations in support of the site, and is a "recognized" name to many of us.

His banning has the site in an uproar with an all-out near flame war. There is grave dancing by those who found his passion for his preferred candidate annoying, joy from the purely anti-misogynist crowd (many of whom count their "hides" in double digits with multiple time outs due to their rude and borderline abusive posts), and frankly consternation from his friends/other long time posters because if it could happen to him over ONE POST then it could happen to us, too.

Banned. Cut from the club. Not "time out/come back and explain yourself" - BANNED. No chance to clarify what you were thinking, apologize if required, or defend the post.

What is the value of an online reputation using a pseudonym? Especially in a for-profit discussion forum? For him or against him, his reputation is in tatters; he is now an accused misogynist, a stupid over the top rude idiot - a fool who doesn't belong among the "decent folks" on this board --

What value the hundreds of hours he spent here?

I have been a member since 2004. DU has been a part of my life on a near daily basis ever since. I have shared public triumphs (recounting New Hampshire presidential election, American Red Cross during Hurricane Katrina), personal tragedy (death of my father, loss of my beloved dogs, the story of my sister with MS), and the joy of getting pregnant/giving birth/raising my now eight year old twins. In 2012 when I began figuring out the connection between micronutrient deficiency, growth retardation and cerebral palsy, my first public discussion on the topics began here, and when I worked on the dratted paper explaining it all, I talked about that, too.

This site is someplace between a habit and a home. I have a reputation here. What is that worth? In real life my family walked with our newly elected Democratic Representative in a local Memorial Day parade and I am NOT a racist, a misogynist or a homophobe. I am a rabid supporter of civil rights issues, I support legalization of marijuana, but think people who chance losing their children over it are idiots, despise illegal drug use, and am adamant about a strong social safety net.

Am I DEMOCRAT enough for this board? Is my reputation strong enough to survive a mistake or a mistyping or a misunderstanding or a temporary moment of over the top passionate typing? If or when I am banned, and the grave dancing begins (the Woo Wars alone ensure those!), how will I handle the "little death" of that moment? Will the glee of the cruel erase the good memories I have made? Will I question the number of hours I have spent here, reading and responding to "imaginary" people, and wonder why I bothered?

What will my reputation be worth? How will I be remembered? Will I be mourned?

This playpen is run by good people who deservedly receive income from their efforts. I submit that there is a value brought by long term members and that at some point an arbitrary kick to the curb is inappropriate by our hosts. At some point you stop typing or texting and pick up the blasted phone to repair a relationship before it goes off the rails.

If you value it, anyway. That is what you do when you care about people. And yes, with thousands of posters, many of us long term, the phone tree approach might be necessary - the details are not mine to work out - but (to circle back again) NYC_SKP is not the first "long timer" who has been booted; some have been welcomed back, and some have not.

This is an online discussion forum, and the long term rules are still being wrestled with. A good reputation has to have some value.

Doesn't it? Or is this place just a "what have you done for me lately/posters come and posters go" internet site instead of a community?

I post under my real name. I have received death threats (thank goodness not serious ones!) for some of my public stands. I am REAL - and so are the rest of the PEOPLE who post here. And, to be fair, at some point the board itself has a "personality" with a reputation of its own: thoughtful discussion, courteous behavior, insightful views....all provided by quality posters who bring their best to the site on a regular basis.

Long term versus short - a reputation for being a "good" poster either has value or it doesn't. The whisper I hear is "who is next?"

And that is not a good reputation for this place to have.

Sinning versus Criminal Behavior: one involves God, the other Law Enforcement.

This may seem like a simple concept, but it a big issue when a religious leader (usually fundamentalist) commits a "sin" and falls from grace. The cry for forgiveness - complete with acknowledgements of unworthiness of all sinners - is usually accompanied by an expressed faith that, having approached the Lord with humbled heart, the sinner has repented, and received forgiveness from the Almighty. With approval from on high already given, can the congregation follow suit? Already aware of their own lack of perfection, and well aware of their own humanity, forgiveness, along with explanations, rationalizations, and sometimes just plain excuses, are all inevitably offered by those who *like* the sinner and wish to continue a positive relationship.

The problem comes in when something is presented as a "sin" but is in reality considered A CRIME by the rest of society. Sins are not necessarily crimes - lust in one's heart, secretly coveting someone else's spouse, taking the "name" of a deity in vain, etc. - and not something the judicial system in this country is going to pay attention to. Even "moral failings" - adultery, non-marital sexual activity, immodest dress - are not CRIMES.

Petty crimes - pilfering from the collection plate - probably get more law enforcement calls, but the major crimes - rape/murder/molestation - are where all heck breaks loose.

Josh Duggar committed a crime. His parents covered it up (another crime). His victims were encouraged to bury their own feelings for "family unity/religious love" and this lack of Justice outrages decent people.

The sin is on their souls, and frankly, not the business of the community. The CRIME is the issue, and the cover up.

None of us is perfect. I suspect the young teen who began molesting his sleeping female victims was acting out his own abuse, but again, the crime of covering up the situation has made that difficult to investigate. The narcissism of the confession is telling.

The 15 minutes of fame is over for this family. Unfortunately, he may appear to be a martyr to those who can't grasp the difference between accountability for one's "sins" versus one's CRIMES (unless the perpetrator has dark skin),

My $.02 - your mileage may vary.

"Once he choked her unconscious, I didn't need to get to know him!"

Top ten list of "things I thought I would never need to explain" except that apparently I had to spell this out for someone who was trying to justify letting two young "lovebirds" stay in her home after the boyfriend was released from jail following his arrest after an incident of violence.

I have been told that the girlfriend assaulted him first, then he choked her unconscious, and she called the police on him when she came to. (The home owner saw the marks on her neck.) The police deemed the situation to be "mutual combat" but since he had an outstanding warrant (driving on a suspended license) he got hauled off to jail. He was released Monday (after two weeks in jail) and the two lovebirds were back together again before his release.

It is actually the home owner I am most upset with because the line "but the girlfriend wants him back!" was actually used as part of the justification, along with me "not really knowing the guy" which is when I used the quote in the subject.

It is "not my circus, and not my monkeys" but I predict this is not going to end well. The girlfriend moved in with the homeowner less than two months ago, has lost custody of her child to the state, was stealing from the home owner/called the police to get the home owner arrested after initiating a tug of war over the stolen property (that was a shocker/didn't work, thank goodness), and now this...all in two months!!!

Apparently I am a judgmental cynic. I do not think "a stern talking to" is going to prevent the next episode of "drama" from happening, which I predict will occur before the end of April.

"But they have no place to go!"

"He choked your granddaughter unconscious - who cares?"

The CRAZY is strong with these ones....ARGH!

Karma has bitten someone. I feel bad for the guy.

His incompetence cost half a dozen people their jobs, and he FINALLY got fired.

There was a time I would have celebrated, but now I just feel sorry for him. He tried to protect himself by throwing other people under the bus, and it totally backfired on him.

He was enabled by a supervisor who has apparently managed to save himself by blaming this guy. It is an ugly mess. I am grateful to be NOT involved, and hope my former team is able to function with a competent person in the role.

I am surprised by my pity for the man, especially after he did so much damage....?
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