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Member since: Tue Sep 23, 2003, 10:05 PM
Number of posts: 26,896

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Wall St. will try to do something similar to us if Bernie is elected.

Now that we have seen the Venezuelan model for how they destroy democracies through planned economic deprivation and external economic and media manipulation, etc., we need to figure out how to quickly strip them of their power to commit acts of financial terrorism against the US and all peoples of the world of the world who wish to establish democratic governments for themselves that are free from manipulation and control of greedy, malicious oligarchs.

Subcomandante Marcos, Zapatista brother, wrote this in the mountains of south Mexico a few decades ago:

The global power of the financial centers is so great, that they can afford not to worry about the political tendency of those who hold power in a nation, if the economic program (in other words, the role that nation has in the global economic megaprogram) remains unaltered. The financial disciplines impose themselves upon the different colors of the world political spectrum in regards to the government of any nation. he great world power can tolerate a leftist government in any part of the world, as long as the government does not take measures that go against the needs of the world financial centers. But in no way will it tolerate that an alternative economic, political and social organization consolidate. For the megapolitics, the national politics are dwarfed and submit to the dict ates of the financial centers. It will be this way until the dwarfs rebel . .


From Fire to Autonomy: Zapatistas, 20 Years of Walking Slowly

Speaking in the mountains of Chiapas, Mexico, on a cold drizzly New Year's Eve, the Zapatista Comandante Hortensia addressed the crowd: "Twenty-five or 30 years ago we were completely deceived, manipulated, subjugated, forgotten, drowned in ignorance and misery." She was communicating the official words of the Zapatista Army of National Liberation (EZLN) on the 20th anniversary of their rebellion, when thousands of indigenous people rose up in arms, took over dozens of major towns and villages in this southern state, and declared "enough is enough, never again will there be a homeland that doesn't include us."

Comandante Hortensia went on to explain how over the past two decades, they have constructed their own autonomous government, complete with their own health and education system, based in the indigenous traditions of their ancestors. Despite the continual efforts of the "neoliberal bad government" to displace them from their land, the Zapatistas have successfully recuperated thousands of acres of land on which they have constructed communities that are governed "from the bottom up." Community members participate in rotating government positions that operate under the democratic principle of "mandar obedeciendo" (commanding by obeying).

The Mexican government has attempted to introduce social programs with the goal of co-opting and dividing the indigenous population in Zapatista areas. However, the indigenous rebels, who reject all forms of government handouts, have successfully resisted co-optation. If you ask a Zapatista how many are in the ranks, they will just respond "somos un chingo," which loosely translates into "there are a whole lot of us." Official estimates put their numbers at 250,000 people or roughly 10 percent of the population of the state of Chiapas.
Daily Life: Dignity Triumphs over Money

Their efforts in constructing autonomy could not be understood without focusing on their indigenous ethics and principles of mandar obedenciedo: to serve and not be served; represent and not supplant; build and not destroy; propose and not impose; and convince, not defeat, from below not above. No autonomous authority receives a salary, as it is considered an honor to serve the people. The home community of the representatives of the good government donate corn and beans to be consumed by them while they are living and working in the Caracol.


A possible simple working model for worldwide democratic resistance to the economic terrorism of the oligarchs.

Alert socks would be a useful tool for what are, generally,

any inherently subjective, dishonest individuals/groups of posters.

FDR traditional Dems at DU don't use alert socks, won't alert for malevolent purposes, and are collectively far more objective in their evaluations of posts in the capacity of juror than the more conservative groups of posters.

Posters from generally subjective, inherently dishonest group(s) can, and do, frequently, use the jury system as a weapon, because they are permitted to alert at will, and they will almost universally automatically vote to hide even the most innocuous alerted on post that is made by a traditional Democrat.

It's somewhat like the integrity gap between traditional FDR Dems and Republicans. The farther to the right of the political spectrum that a juror is, the more likely that juror is to use the jury system as a weapon.

The 7 - 0 rule is relatively ineffective in protecting traditional Dems here because of this integrity gap. There's almost always one subjective member on a jury from an inherently dishonest group. Therefore, there's no 7 - 0 result, and subsequently, the alert stalkers are allowed to continue to alert stalk traditional FDR Dems with impunity.

An added bonus for the dishonest group is that each time they hide a traditional Democrat's post, they significantly lower the traditional Dems odds of being selected for a jury. Each hide a poster gets lessens their chances of being selected for the jury, effectively stacking future juries on the side of the dishonest group.

The system works!

***An effective, and simple, solution to this problem would be to allow each individual member 4, or maybe 6, alerts per year. Having been a member of DU for almost 13 years, I believe that this should be acceptable to any reasonable DU member who would never consider using the DU jury system as a weapon for punishing and/or silencing, without reasonable cause, those who disagree with her/him.

Just FYI, a prolific poster's alert sockpuppet was exposed for trying to circumvent the alert system a few years ago. The sockpuppet was tombstoned, but the poster was not tombstoned, or suspended. No telling how many socks are out there.

Awaiting validation

The effects of the long term, blanket RW MSM propaganda brainwashing

program is what we are seeing here.

Hundreds of RW AM radio hate jockeys, and the RW monopolization of televised and print "news" media, were inflicted upon the people of this country, for a generation. "Conservative" almost became institutionalized as synonymous with "good", and liberal almost became synonymous with "bad".

Fortunately, progressive "media crusaders" on the internet saw what was happening, and provided an outlet for truth and fact to counteract the decades long RW media blitz, and today we have a generation known as "millennials" who were not lobotomized to any significant degree by the massive long term RW MSM propaganda campaign.

Those of us of other generations who saw through the propaganda, and who were not affected by the RW media poison, are now united with millennials in an effort to help take back our country and our government from the oligarchs, and their conservative minions, by electing Bernie and other traditional Democrats to office.

President Obama nailed it perfectly when he wrote that Reagan was a "transformational" President. Midway through the Reagan presidency, conservatives calling themselves the "DLC", or Democratic Leadership Party, infiltrated and co-opted the Democratic party, which resulted in the conservative brainwashed mess of a party that we find ourselves dealing with right now. Today, the DLC is known as Third Way, or New "Democrats". These New "Democrats" serve and promote the interests of oligarchs and their massive private transnational commercial enterprises over the interests of human beings and the environment.

It is up to us to further reverse this destructive national transformation to conservatism by engaging in a sustained, massive united progressive push to prevent republican and Third Way conservatives from being elected to office, by electing traditional Democrats who understand that the interests of human beings, and our environment, are the most important issues in the world.

Electing Bernie is a primary step in this transformation of the US into a kinder, saner, better nation.

The purpose of this revolution is to take our country back from the oligarchs,

and establish a genuine working democracy.

Occupy, and Bernie, have done much to change the national dialogue. But if Bernie is not elected POTUS, the establishment corporate government will do whatever it takes to maintain the privatized idiocracy of the oligarchy.

Changing the national dialogue is a gain, but it is not victory. Victory is Bernie in the White House, and all of us working together to transform our country from an inhumane and violent profit obsessed oligarchy, into a compassionate democracy, where the interests of human beings are of primary importance.

That is what real win is.

All the IRA only ever wanted to do was drive the English imperialist occupiers out of Ireland.

The overwhelming number of English in Ireland are Protestant. At various times over the past several centuries, the English forbade Catholics to practice Catholicism, and Catholics were beaten, imprisoned, dispossessed, and murdered for practicing Catholicism. The English tried, through the use of brutal force and political and social machinations, to make the Irish to join the Church of England.

This gives many people who are not familiar with Irish history the mistaken impression that IRA activities are, and have been, about religion. They are not.

The English murdered, tortured, beat, dispossessed, oppressed, starved, and did every evil rotten thing they could to subjugate the Irish people, but they never succeeded, the Irish people never gave up, and after centuries of Irish nationalist groups fighting for their freedom for several centuries, the IRA successfully drove the English out of most of Ireland in the first half of the 20th century. After centuries of genocide at the hands of the English, most of Ireland gained independence, and became the Irish Free State.

Six counties in the province of Ulster, in the north of Ireland, still remain under English control. Factions of the IRA have split off from the original group. There are still some, but very few, who advocate using violence to end English control of the Six Counties. Today, however, most everyone in Ireland recognizes the fact that the days of English control of the Six Counties are numbered, and that the Six Counties will, through peaceful process, reunite with the Irish Free State (the Republic of Ireland) relatively soon, and English control in Ireland will be no more. This is one primary reason that there has been so much less violent activity directed at English imperialists in the north of Ireland in recent years. English control will simply wither away on its own sometime before 2050, and probably sooner.

The only difference, ethically speaking, between Native American tribes in N. America who fought for centuries to drive the British imperialist occupiers out of their lands, and the Irish tribes who fought for centuries to drive the British imperialist occupiers out of their lands, is that the Irish eventually won.

Both groups only simply wanted to drive the genocidal English imperialist invaders from their lands.

The IRA has never been about religion, per se. It's always, and only, been about driving the English imperialist occupiers out of Ireland. Forever.


I do not trust her, and do not feel that just because she is female that

she will significantly improve my condition. She is extremely fickle regarding what she claims to believe; her history shows a great deal of disingenuous, duplicitous behavior.

I feel that her primary interest in running for President is to represent the billionaires, giant multinational corporate interests, and large financial institutions. Although I believe I may possibly benefit from her Presidency, any consideration for advancement in my social and economic condition will be secondary to her primary interest of serving profit interests, and I simply can't count on her to do take a break from her service to corporations and take a hammer to the glass ceiling, or vigilantly and steadfastly protect and advance my right to have control over my own body.

Bernie Sanders has a long history of honesty, forthrightness, and consistency in his beliefs and actions concerning my rights as a woman, and member of other minority groups. I trust Bernie Sanders to place my interests, and the interests of my children and grandchildren as human beings first and foremost, when executing his populist agenda as US President.

It is clear from observing Clinton's tenure as Secretary of State that her primary interest is in serving the wealthiest 10% of Americans, and that just ain't me in any way shape or form.

I'm relieved that many other women are waking up, and are now realizing that Bernie will actually do what he says, and do everything in his power to help achieve equality for the women of the United States, to the very best of his ability.

It doesn't matter if marriage was on the table or not. Just because there is

no record of something doesn't mean it did not and does not exist. By all indications, Bernie supported full civil rights for LGBT since at least the early 70's.

"Let us abolish all laws which impose a particular brand of morality or "right" upon people. Let's abolish all laws dealing with...sexual behavior, homosexuality...)


"All" means ALL:

Definition of "all":

predeterminer, determiner, & pronoun

1. used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing.

All means all. No caveats, no exceptions. Bernie did not say, "Let us abolish all laws dealing with homosexuality, except for any and all laws that prevent gays from marrying".

Now, some may use the stupid argument that there were no laws against same sex marriage at the time, but using that argument is lose and fail, in terms of reality. Lesbians and gays could not legally marry anywhere in the US at that time, and none did, unless maybe a few used a brilliant disguise and subterfuge .

And some may say, well, but he didn't say anything about gay marriage!! But that is meaningless with respect to claims that he did not support same sex marriage.

"Joe never said that he supported same sex marriage, therefore, he did not support same sex marriage" is nonsense.

Bernie is clearly an old school freedom loving liberal progressive. If you would have asked Bernie, in 1972, if he supported same sex marriage, I believe he would have replied, "Sure, why wouldn't I?"

There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were, and ask why not? ~ Robert F. Kennedy

“It is my very strong view that a society which proclaims human freedom as its goal, as the United States does, must work unceasingly to end discrimination against all people..." Bernie Sanders, 1985

All. Fucking A-L-L. He did not say, "we must work unceasingly to end discrimination against all people, except for gays. Gays should be subject to certain forms of discrimination and inequality, and should not have the right to marry like heterosexual individuals can."

He said "all", as in "the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing".

The centuries spanning homophobic belief, profoundly institutionalized into the collective consciousness, that LGBT are inferior, pariah, and "not really the same as normal humans", can make it utterly incomprehensible to some, that a straight person back in the 1960's (when gay marriage was rarely spoken of) could actually have believed that LGBT were equal human beings, worthy of respect and full equal rights, including the right to be able to marry the adult of their choosing, just like heterosexuals have the right to do so.

Please understand, I'm not implying that this is at all true in your case, Agschmid.

For anyone wishing to donate to help victims of wildfires in Washington:

The fires in Okanogan County are already by far the largest in state history. The Tunk Block fire is only 30% contained as of 4 hrs ago. The devastation, to quote a member of my family who lives there, is "epic".





Both the Tunk Block fire of the Okanogan Complex, and the North Star fire are burning on the Colville Rez, and have burned about 175,000 to 200,000 acres or more on the rez. Unfortunately, there is no way that I know of to donate online to the tribal disaster relief fund

North Cascades Bank
Colville Confederated Tribes Disaster Relief Fund

The Colville Tribal Emergency Operations Center
and Northstar Fire
Donation Center are
accepting monetary donations to their North Cascades Bank Colville
Confederated Tribes Disaster Relief Fund.

Also, donations can be mailed to:

Colville Confederated Tribes
Attn: Central Accounting/Disaster Relief Fund
P.O. Box 150
Nespelem, WA


Not sure if the Tunk Block and North Star fires have joined yet. The total amount of land burned so far in these two fires, which are in close proximity to each other, is at least, I believe, 370,00 acres, roughly about 570 sq miles.

High winds stall firefighting efforts, fuel Tunk Block, Lime Belt fires
Originally published August 29, 2015 at 11:56 am Updated August 30, 2015 at 11:07 am

The most recent figured, released late Saturday showed the Okanogan complex fires had burned 304,782 acres, or 476 square miles. Two fires in the complex, the Twisp River and Nine Mile fires, were each about 95 percent contained.
The North Star fire Saturday afternoon was burning about 4.5 miles outside the town of Republic, Ferry County, according to Gerardo Regalado, spokesman for emergency operations there. That fire has burned 192,900 acres, or about 300 square miles.



Debbi Wasserman Schulz, former national co-chair of the Hillary Clinton Campaign for President,

dictatorially decides that she has the absolute right to rig the Democratic primary process, so that her BFF Hillary Clinton will be the Democratic nominee for POTUS in 2016.

Paraphrased, Little Debbie says fuck democracy, and says Democrats can go fuck off if we don't like it. Little Debbie says this ain't Burger King, and Democrats get it her way, or we don't get it at all.

So, just how many millions of Democratic votes will this cost Clinton in the GE after Debbie
crowns her Hillary, Queen of the Democrats?

Bernie is correct. We are spread too thin. Our own people suffer while

we spend billions of our tax dollars protecting the profit interests of transnational corporations all over the world. Neoliberals pretend that they have the noble goal of curtailing human rights violations in those countries with our presence and influence, and use this pretense to try to justify our imperialist capitalist "presence for profit" abroad.

We have already done everything we could to destabilize the Middle East in the name of imperial capitalist neoliberalism. Time to let the region deal with its own issues, the issues it lives every day. The US cannot be the World Police for several reasons, one of which is that we have proven that we totally suck at doing it, another of which are that it is sucking up half our tax revenue, revenue that could be used to improve the conditions of everyone in the US and maybe even our neighbors in the Americas as well.

Our home is a tragically dysfunctional home, and we all know the ways in which it is dysfunctional. We're definitely not going to be able to help anyone else if we can't even help ourselves.

Neoliberalism is nothing but imperialist capitalism. Neoliberalism is a disease that is killing the planet, and the US is the main host/carrier of neoliberalism and is spreading the disease of neoliberalism throughout the world. Neoliberals claim they spread democracy, but democracy to neoliberals means subjugation of other cultures for profit. Neoliberal imperialists have displaced and dispossessed billions of indigenous people by stealing their land, taking away their means of sustenance/resources, and then forcing them to bow before the self-righteous imperial neoliberal throne, often forcing them to become refugees in order to survive, under the most meager of circumstances.

Virtually every non-white culture on the planet has been infected, exploited, disrupted, and impoverished by murderous neoliberal white supremacist profiteers with delusions of racial superiority.

Let other regions of the world deal with their own issues, which they understand better than anyone. Yes, Saudi Arabia is a nasty, rotten, oppressive neoliberal monarchy. Maybe if they are forced to deal with major threats to their wealth and sovereignty, the people will get a shot at overthrowing the monarchy. The people of Saudi Arabia are not benefiting significantly by neoliberal appeasement and partnership with the rotten regime that oppresses them.

We have proven, over and over that we simply are not capable of effectively dealing with the issues of cultures we cannot understand because we do not live the issues, and we, like so many imperialist European nations before us, have created and perpetuated the enormous clusterfuck that is the Mideast.

We desperately need to break the neoliberal stranglehold on all of our lives, and work on fixing ourselves. If we are not in the Mideast committing mass genocide and blowing the destabilizing unholy fuck out of sovereign nations with unjustifiable wars (for neoliberal profit!) in the Mideast, it may actually give the people of the Mideast the chance to eventually fix themselves.

From Fire to Autonomy: Zapatistas, 20 Years of Walking Slowly



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