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Zorra

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Gender: Female
Current location: Earth
Member since: Tue Sep 23, 2003, 11:05 PM
Number of posts: 23,048

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So, like...uh, how much would you be willing to pay for that information?

Yeah, huh? This ain't rocket science. Clue #1: Bush stole the 2000 election. Doh!

So, either they were gullible and naive enough to be conned by a clueless imbecile fronting for PNAC fascist scum, AGAIN and are admitting that they totally got beat by a transparently malicious fool, or they voted for this war for what are unquestionably despicable, anti-democratic reasons.

I don't know of one single leftist Democrat, not one, who didn't know that Bush was lyin' like a snake in our beds the moment Bush opened his mouth about Iraq. And the archives of Democratic Underground are full of our posts as proof of this.

This is what all we leftist Democrats knew, beyond the shadow of a doubt:

By The Progressive on October 31, 2002
The Bloodstained Path
by Dennis Kucinich

Unilateral military action by the United States against Iraq is unjustified, unwarranted, and illegal. The Administration has failed to make the case that Iraq poses an imminent threat to the United States.

There is no credible evidence linking Iraq to 9/11. There is no credible evidence linking Iraq to Al Qaeda. Nor is there any credible evidence that Iraq possesses deliverable weapons of mass destruction, or that it intends to deliver them against the United States.
snip---
We know that each day the Administration receives a daily threat assessment. But Iraq is not an imminent threat to this nation. Forty million Americans suffering from inadequate health care is an imminent threat. The high cost of prescription drugs is an imminent threat. The ravages of unemployment is an imminent threat. The slowdown of the economy is an imminent threat, and so, too, the devastating effects of corporate fraud.
snip---
America cannot and should not be the world's policeman. America cannot and should not try to pick the leaders of other nations. Nor should America and the American people be pressed into the service of international oil interests and arms dealers.


A-frackin'-men.

‎The REAL® Democrats Unofficial Motto:

Fuck The Third Way, Before They Fuck You.

But you appear to enthusiastically support a potential pro-corporate

neoliberal presidential candidate as the Democratic nominee, the chosen candidate of the faux-liberal fascist Third Way party, who by all appearances wish to preserve the status quo of continual expansion of privatization, polarization of wealth, weakening of our social programs, such as Social Security, and the highly destructive MIC war machine economy of the bankster oligarchs, if she is elected President.

With all due respect, I don't understand how you can possibly accurately self-identify as a liberal Democrat under these circumstances.

Here is some rah rah go HRC propaganda bullshit from the, conservative, neoliberal, pro oligarchy, pro_MIC corporatist Third Way party, whose views on Hillary Clinton's desirability as our next President you appear to share.

Third Way Perspectives

The first woman president is not about the past
March 10th, 2014
by Bill Schneider

Want to see excitement? Look at the polls. In the latest CBS News-New York Times survey, 64 percent of Americans say they would like to see Clinton run for president. No other potential contender in either party — Vice President Joe Biden, Senator Rand Paul (R-Ky.), Senator Ted Cruz (R-Texas), New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, Senator Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), Senator Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), former Florida Governor Jeb Bush, Maryland Governor Martin O’Malley, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo — gets more than 33 percent.
snip---
Educated, upper-middle-class liberals like Warren and New York Mayor Bill de Blasio are trying to push the Democratic Party away from Bill Clinton’s New Democratic centrism toward what they regard as a more populist direction.

That’s the populism of the Occupy movement. It’s very popular at Harvard, where Warren used to teach, and Park Slope, Brooklyn, where de Blasio lived. The Clintons’ populist appeal is more authentic. They don’t talk about going after Wall Street or rich people or big business. They talk about bringing back prosperity.
snip---
One thing Clinton can’t promise to do is end the polarization of U.S. politics. The last four presidents — two Republicans and two Democrats — promised to do that. They all failed. In the CBS-Times poll, an overwhelming 82 percent of Democrats say they would like to see Clinton run for president.


Anyone, even Anne Coulter, can claim to be a liberal; just as anyone can claim to be Mary Poppins.

There are a lot of corporatized zombies out there, otherwise known as

consumers.

Corporate marketers have "turned them" by performing a video lobotomy on them, using television and other electronic devices to create an artificial mindset/socialization process and subsequent society where the majority of people don't even know who they are, having adopted their identities from fictional characters in breakfast cereal and new car commercials, pawn stars, celluloid bounty hunter heroes, duck douchebags, and most dangerous of all, Fox News, the televangelists, and the glamor plastic "wealth idols".

Well over half of our national population cannot read effectively, having only basic reading comprehension, vocabulary, and writing skills. Enough to perform their assigned tasks competently enough to serve the purposes of the matrix.

Products of the matrix, obedient wage slave conzombies, never questioning where it all came from and how it came about, who have no clue that their entire existence has been programmed by the 1% who perpetuate this inhumane process for their protection and continued accumulation of wealth.

Do not question. Obey, or suffer the punishment the authorities of the oligarchs will inflict upon you.





“Our strategy should be not only to confront empire, but to lay siege to it. To deprive it of oxygen. To shame it. To mock it. With our art, our music, our literature, our stubbornness, our joy, our brilliance, our sheer relentlessness – and our ability to tell our own stories. Stories that are different from the ones we’re being brainwashed to believe.

The corporate revolution will collapse if we refuse to buy what they are selling – their ideas, their version of history, their wars, their weapons, their notion of inevitability.

Remember this: We be many and they be few. They need us more than we need them.

Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.”


― Arundhati Roy

I wonder if part of the reason that she lost the 2008 nomination to Obama was because of her

connection to these fascists. It appears that she has refused to comment in depth on her relationship with "The Family".

If she decides to vie for the nomination, Democratic voters deserve to know about the depth of her involvement with this really creepy RW cult. Otherwise, people are going to believe she's hiding something and won't trust her. You can hide your head in the sand, and try to deflect interest by dismissing it without really addressing it, but only really stupid people are going to buy that tactic, and there aren't a whole lot of stupid people here at DU.

Trying to shoo Democrats away from an issue with "run along now, nothing to see here" bullshit is insulting.

None of the information below proves any sinister involvement by Hillary Clinton with The Family. Hanging around with these people is questionable enough in itself.

Jeff Sharlet talks about "The Family" on Rachel Maddow


You can find all about it in a widely under-read article in the September 2007 issue of Mother Jones, in which Kathryn Joyce and Jeff Sharlet reported that "through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as "The "Fellowship," also known as The Family. But it won't be a secret much longer. Jeff Sharlet's shocking exposé The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power will be published in May.

In 2002, Sharlet joined The Family's home for young men, forswearing sex, drugs and alcohol, and participating in endless discussions of Jesus and power. He wasn't undercover; he used his own name and admitted to being a writer. But he wasn't completely out of danger either. When he went outdoors one night to make a cell phone call, he was followed. He still gets calls from Family associates asking him to meet them in diners--alone.

Clinton fell in with The Family in 1993, when she joined a Bible study group composed of wives of conservative leaders like Jack Kemp and James Baker. When she ascended to the Senate, she was promoted to what Sharlet calls the Family's "most elite cell," the weekly Senate Prayer Breakfast, which included, until his downfall, Virginia's notoriously racist Senator George Allen. This has not been a casual connection for Clinton. She has written of Doug Coe, The Family's publicity-averse leader, that he is "a unique presence in Washington: a genuinely loving spiritual mentor and guide to anyone, regardless of party or faith, who wants to deepen his or her relationship with God."

Sharlet generously attributes Clinton's involvement to the under-appreciated depth of her religiosity, but he himself struggles to define The Family's theological underpinnings. The Family avoids the word Christian but worships Jesus, though not the Jesus who promised the earth to the "meek." They believe that, in mass societies, it's only the elites who matter, the political leaders who can build God's "dominion" on earth. Insofar as The Family has a consistent philosophy, it's all about power--cultivating it, building it and networking it together into ever-stronger units, or "cells." "We work with power where we can," Doug Coe has said, and "build new power where we can't."

http://www.thenation.com/article/hillarys-nasty-pastorate


Lindsay Beyerstein: What's Hillary's involvement with the Family? What is she getting out of it?

Jeff Sharlet: As I was researching the book, I knew Hillary had this strange connection. I didn't think much of it until I was reporting on Sen. Sam Brownback. Everyone knew I was a reporter from "Rolling Stone," probably more liberal than they were. So, a way that a lot of Family people would reach out to be friendly was to tell me that Hillary Clinton was OK with them. They'd tell me that HRC was going for regular spiritual counseling with Doug Coe.

Lindsay Beyerstein: Is she still getting counseling from him?

Jeff Sharlet: This was in 2005, and she refused to say anything about this. When NBC questioned her about this, her only answer was that (she's) not a member and (she) has never given Doug Coe money -- which was a strangely parsed kind of answer.

http://www.alternet.org/story/87665/worse_than_fascists%3A_christian_political_group_%27the_family%27_openly_reveres_hitler


Jeff Sharlet on Hillary Clinton's Relationship to "The Family"

The Rise of Chicago's 99% Against Rahm Emanuel, "Mayor 1%"

It's a shame that the Third Way/Republican policies of privatization and snowballing polarization of wealth are forcing more and more working people to make desperate choices due to the hopeless conditions that so many hard working people have been forced to live in.

This post is related to a post in GD where a DUer felt compelled to have to make the decision to call the police on a single working mom, working at the very difficult, very low wage/no benefit job of a home health aide, who did not have any options for affordable child care. No American should ever be forced into these desperate circumstances, and no American should ever be compelled to make the heart crushing decision to call the police on a hard working single mom, forced into desperate straits, because she cannot afford child care for her children.

Please, folks, please, vote to nominate progressive/liberal Democratic candidates, so we don't get stuck with any more neo-liberal Third Way legislators like Rahm Emanuel, who are rapidly reversing so many of the gains for the 99% that the Democratic party has made over many decades, beginning with the New Deal.

The Rise of Chicago's 99% Against Rahm Emanuel, "Mayor 1%"

Will Rahm Emanuel's effort to establish a privatized neoliberal outpost in Chicago succeed? Not if the ongoing uprising brushfires turn from kindling wood into a contemporary Chicago fire of political resistance. Kari Lydersen, author of "Mayor 1%," tells Truthout Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel is representative of the neoliberal wing of the Democratic party, and he's getting significant pushback in his efforts to expand privatization and limit protests.
snip---
Kari Lydersen: Yes I would say he represents the ascent of the neoliberal wing of the Democratic Party . . . but the way that the nickname "Mayor 1%" is used in Chicago and the way I see it, it is also more than that. It's clear that Emanuel's political philosophy and his approach to solving Chicago's problems centers around shifting public resources to the private sector. This isn't necessarily all bad, though it is problematic, especially in terms of the impact on public sector jobs, public education and public services for the most needy. Even more disturbingly, I see "Mayor 1%" as referring to the feeling among many people - especially low-income African Americans - that the city is being reshaped in a way that doesn't include them; that the symbolic and literal structures that make up their neighborhoods and daily lives are being dismantled as the city's resources are being shifted to cater to the "1%" or at least a much smaller percent of the current populace.



Rahm Emanuel jumps on the Hillary Clinton bandwagon

Ready for Hillary is building a list of Clinton supporters, which now totals more than two million, to lay the grassroots groundwork for her should she choose to run for president. During the 2008 Democratic primaries, Emanuel, then a congressman, stayed neutral, torn between his long allegiance to the Clintons and his friendship with Obama, a fellow Chicagoan.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/05/09/rahm-emanuel-jumps-on-the-hillary-clinton-bandwagon/


Crush the Third Way before it crushes you.

Thanks, WillyT!!! Our candidate better have a stronger anti-MIC line, or about 95% of independents

will vote for Brat, and he will win the election.

Democrats are going to have to learn that they can no longer win on social issues, while letting the corporations/banksters/1% continue toward total privatization, ownership, and control of everything and everyone on the planet.

The Third Way needs to be neutralized so they don't cause us to lose more seats in Congress, and the WH as well.

WATCH HERE: White, black, red, brown, yellow, and *other* liberals march with Rev. Jesse Jackson,

and black labor leaders and activists, against the common enemy of every person, of every race, on this planet.

Watch us march for equality and justice, sing "We Shall Overcome". Watch the whole video. Listen to what Rev Jackson, who worked right along with Rev. Dr. King has to say, to the awesome "hated white liberals" among us.



I was right there, when Rev. Jackson visited our camp on the sidewalk, the night before, and spoke to us, and hugged us, and told us not to ever give up. None of us radical liberals were black, or white, or red, or brown, or yellow, or male, or female, or gay, transgender, or straight, or old, or young,

We were just people. Equals. Just people. Sisters and brothers, equal in one human family, united with one purpose: To free our planet from the corporate greed and the corporate control that causes injustice and inequality.

Fuck all Third Wayers and Republicans, and religious bigots, fuck their lying, duplicitous bullshit, and fuck all their phony ass hypocrite free market greed loving planet destroying corporate bullshit that is the real reason behind almost all the injustice, inequality, bigotry and hatred in our world today.

More discussion? About what? The merits of what amounts to unwarranted,

unregulated information gathering on non-criminals through multiple surveillance techniques?

No real Ddemocrat would ever support this type of enterprise.

No real Ddemocrat would ever deny and denounce whistleblowers who righteously expose corrupt, harmful, covert practices and actions perpetrated by our government.

The discussion game is finished, as far as I'm concerned. There's nothing left to say in this matter, and related matters; if there was any legitimate argument for unwarranted, unregulated spying, it would have been presented long ago.

Constant personal attacks on messengers exposing corruption is not "discussion" of these issues, it's anti-democratic, pro-MIC RW propaganda. And when long recognized propaganda techniques are used to catapult these anti-democratic, pro-MIC "points of view", it compounds my perception that certain posters are deliberately posting insidious RW bullshit.

I have been involved with Occupy since the beginning. After reading anti-Occupy propaganda by certain posters, post after post, and watching these same posters attack righteous whistleblowers day after day, and after seeing many of these same posters post what, from my long lifetime POV as a liberal Yellowdog Dem, seems to be nothing but the same type of insidious RW bullshit propaganda that I've seen repeatedly since the early days of Vietnam, I have little reason to consider that certain posters are not paid trolls in service of some agency of the MIC, or, at best, are simply naive "Good Americans" who don't really understand enough about history, life, and the world, to be able to perceive that they are supporting and promoting corporate fascism and oligarchy.

Some of us are struggling for freedom and democracy. Others are struggling for fascism and 1% oligarchy. And others are struggling for fascism and oligarchy and don't even have a clue that this is what they are struggling for.

"The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. "

-Franklin D. Roosevelt, "Message from the President of the United States Transmitting Recommendations Relative to the Strengthening and Enforcement of Anti-trust Laws"


“Our strategy should be not only to confront empire, but to lay siege to it. To deprive it of oxygen. To shame it. To mock it. With our art, our music, our literature, our stubbornness, our joy, our brilliance, our sheer relentlessness – and our ability to tell our own stories. Stories that are different from the ones we’re being brainwashed to believe.

The corporate revolution will collapse if we refuse to buy what they are selling – their ideas, their version of history, their wars, their weapons, their notion of inevitability.

Remember this: We be many and they be few. They need us more than we need them.

Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The attack the messenger game is long over; the messengers won.

Evil may be relative to individual beliefs and social constructs, and, who knows? Maybe even

natural/universal law, with respect to human beings, and possibly other beings who have the innate, conscious abilities to be empathic and altruistic. I don't know;, does anyone really know?

I have my own personal beliefs, my own morality/code of ethics, which I rearrange as personal "truth" is gathered. So far, what I have come up with in my journey is to consciously do my best to treat others like I want to be treated, and try to never consciously do harm, to the best of my (obviously) limited abilities, while trying to analyze the motivations behind my thoughts and behavior in order to try to not bullshit myself.

It appears to me that many genuine, sincere progressives/liberals have, to some degree, a similar view of existence, and, in this spirit, we determine, through reason, individually and collectively, what appears to us to be "evil". Based on this evolving determination of our collective value system, we join together, and take measures to prevent those who demonstrably do not share our collective beliefs from harming others, within the most liberal sphere of non-destructive individual action possible.

It appears to me that all human behavior is driven by the desire for some type of reward. If our primary value is the most satisfactory existence for ourselves and everyone else, we work toward manifesting this type of world for ourselves.

What we value most will generally be what we sincerely desire and pursue in our lives; and attaining this reward will most often be our primary focus.

Just my 2 cents worth, based on very limited information.

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