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JackRiddler

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Member since: 2002
Number of posts: 22,019

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USAID discrediting medical programs...

The example of Venezuelans dispatched by USAID to pose as fake health workers while attempting to stir an uprising in Cuba is just as reprehensible as the fake vaccination program in Pakistan. Absolutely criminal, this endangers legitimate aid workers everywhere and threatens public health.

It illustrates more generally the insanity of allowing secret agencies that can employ the cover of other agencies and organizations. As soon as you do so, within any government, you create an unaccountable, separate, secret power center. And why should anyone in the world who meets anyone from "USAID" or State Department or American NGOs (or who knows which American company) not fear that they are dealing with the CIA or some other spook outfit?

This kind of behavior gets uninvolved, innocent people killed. Not surprisingly, the Cubans that these stupid fuckers tried to recruit are appalled at the manipulation.

Hector Baranda, who was a college student in Cuba when he was befriended by a group of traveling Venezuelans, said he was surprised to hear from the AP they were working for the U.S. government and had profiled him.

"How would you feel if you offered your sincere friendship and received this kind of news?" Baranda asked.


These people are fucked in the head and THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PEOPLE THEY SAY THEY WANT TO FREE. They don't give a flying shit, those are pieces on a grand chessboard.

It really illustrates the ideological anti-communist fanaticism that still motivates many of these actions. These people are prepared to see innocents die in their effort to restructure the world in an American image.

Check out the rationalizations and successful ideological self-indoctrination offered up by this loser:

"We worked it so that the government here didn't know we were traveling to Cuba and helping these groups," said Yajaira Andrade, a former administrator with a Venezuelan organization. "Because that was when (President Hugo) Chavez was in power, and if he had known about us — that some Venezuelans were working to stir rebellion — we would have been thrown in jail."


Does she seriously believe her own bullshit? That would go a long way to explaining why she would participate in such a harebrained and wrongful scheme to inject U.S.-made chaos into a stable island society that never wronged her, never did anything against her country or the U.S.

At $5.41 an hour!

This is what the CIA has to offer Cuba (I use this as a general term for the covert operations national security wing of the foreign policy apparatus, which is the most important). They'd like to turn it into Libya, or the Ukraine.

FUCK THE CIA.

I find it interesting that "GMO" usually prompts a swarm

of usual suspects claiming they practically embody Science and everyone thinking otherwise is a fool and only GMOs can solve world hunger and those who oppose them are literally going to cause millions to starve, etc. etc.

Start a thread with a focus on the politics behind GMO and Big Ag, however, and how these fit into the food system generally, and the societal as well as the ecological impacts, not to mention the international politics... crickets from that side.

The big picture can't be addressed, because the role of GMOs as actually applied within the corporate business models is so decisively indefensible. They'd rather hype a few words from some icon who's a great astrophysicist and teacher of science but not a biologist or an economist, who threw off some blinkered smug comments that altogether avoid these issues.

Carter actually tried.

Hundreds, probably 600-800, were let go from the operations divisions (the covert interventions, the major crimes), in the wake of all the bad image that had been exposed by Church, Pike, etc. in the 1970s. But these operators weren't identified, the history didn't come out, there were no prosecutions, and they had their backers all over politics. So most of them found their spots in the private sector or as mercenaries, kept tight, got behind Bush, and roared back in with Reagan to conduct the new round of excessive criminality in grand fashion under Wild Bill Casey.

The only way to uproot is to also expose, and prosecute, and let the full history be known. And that's only the beginning: the whole system of incentives that drives this culture has to be radically dismantled, which has implications for whole industries.

So if I've understood your two points...

1) The story starts without any prior chapters with Hamas rockets, which appear completely out of nowhere, like Pearl Harbor or something, and which have nothing to do with the aggression the IDF had already initiated in the West Bank. These rockets then retroactively caused the Israeli invasion which, luckily, had been planned, prepared and announced well in advance. These are also what's forcing Israel to bomb little boys playing ball on a beach and UN refugee shelters, rubble whole neighborhoods, etc. etc. and to declare 40% of this densely crowded territory into a no-go zone, pushing the Palestinians into the sea.

Now, as for your second point... wait a minute, I just got a friendly tap on the roof, be right back...



Phew! Right, so we were saying...

2) Hm, this one's tougher. Let's see... Genocide and occupation are okay since that's what the U.S. did. Or wait, that can't be what you mean. They're okay long as it's the U.S. or Israel doing it? No, I don't think that's what you want to say either. Oh! I get it! You just don't want anyone to speak of these, since "we" who live today are responsible for the historic genocidal treatment of Native Americans, therefore, um... right. Denial, that's what you're looking for. Let's just not talk about unpleasant things in the now, or the past, what's the difference?

Except for rockets. Hamas very bad.

Thanks for the adventures in logic.

Brennan must go, the CIA investigated for spying on Senate.

What do you think?

After World War II, Hitler was dead.

We're talking about the wholesale adoption of scientists and spies who had worked diligently in the programs and agencies of the defeated Nazi regime by the U.S. government into the CIA and other programs, as well as the creation of the West German intelligence agencies out of the Gehlen Organization, after the war. Some were Nazis, some were loyal technocrats, all had participated willingly and operationally in the regime and its war.

After the war.

The issue with GMO seeds is political, not just scientific

NOTE ON EDIT of August 10, 2014: I'm changing the title of this thread (formerly, "Vandana Shiva on the problem with GMO seeds") to make clear it's about the issues generally, and to make it harder for certain parties to degenerate it into the sneering distraction tactics of the fake "skeptics" and the irrelevant ad-hominem attacks now fashionable among many self-designated embodiments of "science". Let's focus on the issues of GMOs and their actual utilization within the present-day system of political economy.

First, a Vandana Shiva interview with Bill Moyers - please watch it.



http://billmoyers.com/segment/vandana-shiva-on-the-problem-with-genetically-modified-seeds/

Bill talks to scientist and philosopher Vandana Shiva, who’s become a rock star in the global battle over genetically modified seeds. These seeds — considered “intellectual property” by the big companies who own the patents — are globally marketed to monopolize food production and profits. Opponents challenge the safety of genetically modified seeds, claiming they also harm the environment, are more costly, and leave local farmers deep in debt as well as dependent on suppliers. Shiva, who founded a movement in India to promote native seeds, links genetic tinkering to problems in our ecology, economy, and humanity, and sees this as the latest battleground in the war on Planet Earth.


Here are questions the GMO issue raises that are generally avoided by framing the discussion merely as one of science determining the supposed effects on health:

How is this technology applied? What kinds of GMOs have been developed? By whom and to what purpose? With what effect, not just on the biology of the organism or of the eater, but also on the environment and in the political economy, the lives of humans generally? What are the totality of the consequences, insofar as we might know them, as well as the potential unintended consequences? Who decides?

My argument:

This is at least as much an issue of politics and power as of science. GMO functionally is used as a means for business entities to claim intellectual property rights to seeds whether or not these are in their possession, or to set up other systems of guaranteed rent-seeking, as when they sell both the seed and the persticides/herbicides to which it is resistant. (A place gets flooded with that particular herbicide and then everyone's forced to buy the more expensive, herbicide-resistant seeds and prohibited from using seeds gained in the harvest.) As a matter of system GMO tech is applied with corporate pecuniary interests as the motivating force. In practice reinforces the present systems of energy-intensive industrial monoculture, food processing and delivery-marketing in the hands of cartels, and problematic diet.

Analogy:

Applying new techniques in metal sciences, I invent a new gun and sell it to a corporation that puts it into immediate mass production. Some people don't like this, many of them for visceral reasons. Others rationalize my invention, like Neil de Grasse Tyson has just done with GMOs, with the general argument that people have been making things out of metal for millennia. This is obtuse. He's a smart guy, but he's missing the point. What's the gun for? Who's using it, to what end?

Missing the matter of who and why. Politically naive.

Re: Tyson's defense of GMOs.

Here is what he's not asking:

How is this technology applied? What kinds of GMOs have been developed? By whom? To what purpose? With what effect, not just on the biology of the organism or of the eater, but also on the environment and in the political economy, the lives of humans generally? What are the totality of the consequences, insofar as we might know them, as well as the potential unintended consequences? Who decides?

Analogy:

Applying new techniques in metal sciences, I invent a new gun and sell it to a corporation that puts it into immediate mass production. Some people don't like this, many of them for visceral reasons. Others rationalize my invention, like Tyson in this case, with the general argument that people have been making things out of metal for millennia. This is obtuse. He's a smart guy, but he's missing the point. What's the gun for? Who's using it, to what end?

"The reason Israel doesn't do it..."

is that they are using this (weak) defensive response from Hamas as the retroactive pretext for the IDF's own attack. Tunnels, schmunnels, none of this is a threat to Israel. They're playing a strategy to crush Palestinian hopes over the long term.

The IDF initiated the offensive on Gaza, after a two-year ceasefire and in the absence of any rain, trickle, barrage, or salvo of rockets from Gaza. The government had decided to pursue this aggression following the crime against the settler children in the West Bank (not by Hamas, not in Gaza, not by anything other than a "lone cell") and just as a unity deal had been struck between Hamas and the P.A. The government's actions are for domestic political consumption and out of long-term calculations of the power constellation. This aggression has never had anything to do with Hamas's rockets, or its supposed tunnels. These are the excuses for consumption among true believers and low-information voters in the U.S., and they wear thin, and I tire of hearing nonsense about the "rain of rockets" when Israel chose to initiate this massacre which has laid waste to large carpets of residential areas without regard for the civilians.

U.S. public opinion is shifting radically.

51% of Americans 18-29 years old think the Israeli attack is unjustified. Most support from Israel comes from ages 50 and up.... the majority of Republican identifiers back what Israel is doing. Meanwhile, Democrats take the opposing view, with nearly half saying Israel’s actions are unjustified.


This is an analysis digging down into the numbers from the latest Gallup poll, at

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/israels-actions-unjustified.html

It's no surprise given the audacity of the IDF's crimes against humanity in Gaza, and the transparently lame justifications served up by the pro-Israeli PR. Which, as we're learning in this thread, has also not worked on Democratic Underground, despite the flood of posts by the relatively small but highly vocal group who support of the Israeli aggression against the occupied people of Gaza.

Now we're also seeing what the true majority opinion on this site is, although you'd never be able to tell from just reading threads, due to how prolific a handful of IDF supporters are.

Check out the link for further breakdowns - opinion among U.S. women is 44 to 33 percent against the Israeli action, says Gallup! Among non-Whites, it's running 2 to 1 against.

This is almost parallel to the general right/left divide, wherein the old white men still predominate and keep the Tea Party politics going, but everyone else is against that.

Israel’s actions ‘unjustified’ in eyes of women, non-whites, Dems, indy’s, and those under 50 — Gallup
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/israels-actions-unjustified.html
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