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Member since: 2001
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Agreed. There's no naked hatred here of Christians.

But we liberals HAVE been on the receiving end of hatred FROM quite a few so-called "Christians." Talk about being demonized? We liberals have had to deal with that for YEARS.

Watching the very word "liberal" being spoken aloud, on national television, with a visibly curled lip. I first noticed that when I watched george herbert walker bush speak at some republi-CON convention back during the reagan nightmare - and last, sadly, witnessed it coming out of my best friend's mouth that way, when she got into a rant based on something she saw on Pox Noise - just a few months ago.

Being called a "Saddam lover" and "al Qaeda sympathizer" because we dared to try to stop an illegal, immoral, unethical, irrational, and deceitful war.

Hey, you haven't lived til you've been called a "baby-killer" merely because you support a woman's right to choose. And this from the so-called small-government/get-the-goverment-off-yer-back crowd, who never seem to mind giving themselves the authority to forcibly insert the government inside every woman's vagina. I've never killed a baby in my life!

Whoever claims liberals are doing all the demonization and persecution these days - better think again.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^

One of those posts I wish I could recommend multiple times.

NOBODY'S "religious beliefs" take precedence over the law, OR ANYBODY ELSE'S "religious beliefs," either, for that matter!

It's really astounding, isn't it. This is the 21st Century forcryingoutloud.

Seems to me the "we've already had this conversation" part is erupting all over this country like a collective bad acne breakout. The voices of other women echo in my mind - after hearing them puzzle aloud, again and again "I thought this was already SETTLED!" and "WHY are we still fighting this???????" That's just in the women's-right-to-choose arena. But there's more.

I thought SCIENCE was settled. I thought the value of public education was settled. I thought the idea of universal suffrage was settled. I thought the idea that we all pay in to support the common good was settled. I thought the plaque on the Statue of Liberty - the one that starts "Give me your tired, your poor..." was settled as a sacred trust at the very foundations of this country. Sorry to swear, but What the Fucking FUCK???

Ran across this photo during the whole Ferguson mess last year - and it's stuck with me ever since:

Whoever that young woman is - MAN does she speak for me!!!!!


And He'd forgive them, too, another group of folks who "know not what they do." We're all supposed to follow that example, those of us who've been brought up in the Catholic/general Christian system. THIS particular example is - well - particularly difficult.

OF COURSE he didn't see the backlash coming! He has not a clue about what the real world thinks.

He's just another teabagger/extremist CON who pays attention only to the gospel according to Pox Noise and hate radio - and THAT is his reality.

OF COURSE he would NOT anticipate the blowback that he created.

OF COURSE he didn't see it coming and didn't expect any such thing. He clearly surrounds himself only with fellow nutcases, who ALSO didn't see it coming - because nobody he listens to warned him about this. That's because there WAS no one around who had a more realistic, normal view. They pay no attention to anyone with OUR worldview, for example. Ours is just summarily dismissed as invalid or hedonistic or godless. So he pays no attention to that. Doesn't bother figuring that kind of viewpoint into his equations AT ALL. Our side really has no relevance to him, and we frankly don't exist in his world. We're just there to be blocked and defied and undercut and muzzled and mocked and maybe reformed or taken to one of those deprogramming camps to screw all our heads back on "right." So when it smacks him full-on in the face like a big fat shitty cream pie, it takes him completely by surprise. Not only do we exist, WE HAVE A VOICE, TOO. A powerful one. AND we have allies - even in the business community which I'm sure he NEVER in a million years would have expected to find such a mindset. Everybody's a religionista just like he is, correct? Or they damn well should be!

But... but... but... you mean I actually have to allow for another point of view? I have to get it through my thick skull that some people will see this VERY differently than my crowd does - and they actually have an impact? I thought only MY side had an impact. I thought only MY side counted. I thought the interests of MY side were all the interests there even WERE! What the hell happened?

Just guessing, of course, but when some of these folks get a little power under their belts using the formulae and approaches and policy sloganeering they have, seems to me they start to take on an air of invincibility. OF COURSE this is a good idea. God's on OUR side! OF COURSE this is good and necessary in this increasingly heathen world! OF COURSE everybody's going to sing its praises!

Oh... wait...

Rude awakening mr. governor. GREAT debut you just made on the national stage! And you actually think YOU'RE ready to run for the White House! As they say in the Queen song: "Another one bites the dust!" Mr. Candidate "My-religion-says-I-don't-have-to-work-with-you." Yeah, THAT will serve you well in the 21st Century, kid.

Just give it time...

And if it isn't him, it'll be somebody else.

Welcome to DU, marked50!

Great to have you with us! The problem here, as you've just stated, is that if THIS is allowed to stand, this opens the floodgates. What's to stop another state, or another four states, from trying to pull this shit? Look what happened immediately after the Supreme Court gutted voting rights? You had a cascade of states that stepped on the gas on bills that were very likely already warming up in the bullpen in anticipation of a favorable ruling. That's thanks to outfits like ALEC, preemptory strategists who help GOP legislators plop finished bills into active mode in their state capitols to accomplish things like voter restrictions, stand-your-ground, climate change denial, restricting the minimum wage, blocking or otherwise thwarting affordable health care coverage, religious interference in public policy, vaginal probes, "sanctity of marriage" stuff, charter and private schools instead of ensuring a robust public education system, and other anti-social, ill-conceived, and wrongheaded shit that the far so-called "right" wants.

Wrong-way social engineering is what it looks like. Anti-social engineering. They're trying to FORCE the CONservative view on us all. They're trying to push the pendulum farther and farther to the "right" and then hold it in place there. And artificially prevent the natural order of things - where, in nature, in reality, the pendulum inevitably swings back the other way. That side always tends to riff on the same theme - asserting repeatedly that this is a "center-right" country. They're wrong! It ISN'T! And it's growing steadily less so with the changing demographics. ESPECIALLY with the marriage equality issue, and the very noticeable and widespread forward momentum of gay rights in America. Things have REALLY evolved there, thank goodness. And yet the other side remains hellbent on resistance, and applying some big cosmic "brakes" against the ongoing evolution of human society through time, a continuum if you will. They resist change. They can't fight it either, and I suppose that makes them hate it and want to stop it all the more.

Welcome to DU, nakocal!

Glad you're here! Sure looks that way, doesn't it? I don't want to be led around by ANYBODY's religion or religious beliefs (not even mine!) when it comes to public policy and the common good. OR when it comes to government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Particularly in this SECULAR society. Religion has nothing to do with it. Religion is beside the point.

I don't care what the bad guys say. This country wasn't founded as a specifically Christian nation. I do get some pleasure out of reminding people that Keith Ellison, the Democratic rep from Minnesota who's the first Muslim elected to Congress was sworn in, in January 2007 with his hand on Thomas Jefferson's copy of the Koran. He asked for permission to borrow it from the Library of Congress and they hand-carried it over to him for his ceremony.


Interesting Congressional trivia: Debbie Wasserman Schultz, btw, told him her first swearing-in was done using a copy of the Tanakh (Jewish scripture).

SHEESH. We've got a LOT more going on in this country than just the extremist Protestant worldview. And our representation should rightfully reflect that, seems to me. I just realized you could direct to each of those pictured with mike pence and say - "Who died and made YOU God?" !!!!

Besides, even for those of us who believe directly in Jesus, even HE pointed out the need for separation of church and state. Anyone notice He was NOT quoted as saying "render therefore to Caesar and to God both the same together." Or "...for both are as one." He differentiated. If one follows That Guy, one would presumably want to differentiate the same way too.

Indeed. Ayatolla Pence.

Christianist Sharia Law.

I look at those religious figures, especially the Jesus-y ones. Didn't they study the same Scripture I studied in Catholic school? Didn't they study the words attributed to Our Lord? Only two Commandments - 1) "Love God." 2) "Love thy neighbor as thyself." Does this new law conform to that Holy Word - in ANY way? Did Jesus die on the cross just for straight people? I happen to believe that, just statistically, one of the 12 apostles was probably gay. Just by the numbers. Sheesh - there were other reviled people among the 12 apostles. Including at least one tax collector - which as I was taught, was an example of a really despised and resented member of that community back in that day. He told a parable about "The Good Samaritan." Samaritans were hated and looked down upon, as I was taught, yet Christ held a Samaritan up as the good guy in one of His best-known parables. He liked the down-trodden. He cited a poor widow hiding in shame in the shadows at the side of the Temple, embarrassed that she had only a couple of pennies to drop in the collection plate, while the bombastic show-off rich guy paraded down the center aisle to make sure EVERYBODY could see the huge bag of money he was handing in - I believe it was the widow's donation that Jesus said was far more pleasing to the Eye of God. He hung out with the poor and the outcast, the riffraff, the lepers - whom EVERYBODY avoided.

I DO NOT profess to know or understand the Mind of God, or the fullness of the Word of Jesus. However, I do find myself wondering if perhaps He might be hated by all these individuals in the photo if He were in our midst today.

I bring NO technical "brilliance" WHATSOEVER to the table. NONE.

I can barely use my iPhone. But I can help think up strategy maybe.

I do like the idea of a mobile app. Seems like everybody's tethered to some sort of iDevice these days. So it seems to me THAT would be where and how to reach them.

I am, too. On his watch, our party did a LOT better.

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