Samantha
Samantha's JournalThat literal term was actually coined during the Clinton years
I have read several books about his presidency, and I cannot remember in which one I read this. It appears he was struggling to find a new term to describe the politics and accomplishments of the Clinton years, including that which he regarded as successes (we can quibble about some of these later) he achieved by compromising with Republicans. I personally have another name for that but I won't post it here because I am not ready for my pizza delivery yet.
I think "Third Way" was the third name he stumbled upon.
While I do like Clinton, some of his accomplishments such as cutting welfare deeply and adversely impacted citizens much in the same way as Republicans recommend today. I don't literally think of this as a "third way" as much as I do a betrayal of Democratic principles.
But he was excellent at defending himself under distressful circumstances against the horrendous attacks by the Republicans. Let me repeat that -- excellent. He should have written a survival guide on that subject alone for Democrats who won the Oval Office after him. Such a guide could have saved us a lot of angst in recent days
I also like our current President and perhaps with his speech this week he is indeed thinking of gravitating away from the Third Way Highway....
Many who align with the Third Way are former DLC'ers trying once again to become relevant in politics.
Sam
I hope you take a look at this article about who owned the Texas Schoolbook Depository Building
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/MDbyrdDH.htmI once read it was owned by someone involved with Big Oil in Texas and meant to look it up. The man's name was David Harold Byrd, and he definitely was associated with Big Oil.
As I continued to read the article, I was struck by the mention of many familiar names. But "The One" that jumped off the page was that of Mac Wallace.
"In 1944 Byrd founded Byrd Oil Corporation and B-H Drilling Corporation. In 1952 Byrd established the Three States Natural Gas Company. Byrd later sold Byrd Oil to Mobil and Three States to Delhi-Taylor. Byrd used this money to invest in aircraft production and established Temco. A company that employed Mac Wallace after he was convicted of killing John Kinser.
Barr McClellan (Blood, Money & Power) points out that Byrd, along with Clint Murchison, Haroldson L. Hunt and Sid Richardson, was part of the Big Oil group in Dallas. McClellan argues that "Big Oil would be during the fifties and into the sixties what the OPEC oil cartel was to the United States in the seventies and beyond". One of the main concerns of this group was the preservation of the oil depletion allowance."
Mac Wallace is the man Barr McClellan identifies as the second shooter in the Texas Book Depository the day Kennedy was shot.
Sam
Maybe she did only remember hearing two
Here is part of what Connally said in his testimony:
"Mr. SPECTER. And what is your reason for that conclusion, sir?
Governor CONNALLY. Well, in my judgment, it just couldn't conceivably have been the first one because I heard the sound of the shot, In the first place, don't know anything about the velocity of this particular bullet, but any rifle has a velocity that exceeds the speed of sound, and when I heard the sound of that first shot, that bullet had already reached where I was, or it had reached
135
that far, and after I heard that shot, I had the time to turn to my right, and start to turn to my left before I felt anything.
It is not conceivable to me that I could have been hit by the first bullet, and then I felt the blow from something which was obviously a bullet, which I assumed was a bullet, and I never heard the second shot, didn't hear it. I didn't hear but two shots. I think I heard the first shot and the third shot."
He probably did not hear the first shot that hit in front of the limo, perhaps because it was traveling faster than the speed of sound (just my guess) and/or because it was fired almost simultaneously with the second shot. The second shot is the one he describes as the first in which he starts to turn around to see if the President had been hit (and the President was indeed hit by that second shot). What he describes as he turns around to see if the President had been hit before he could see anything, he was wounded (that was the third shot but he describes it as the second.) The fourth shot was the kill shot which took the top of the President's head off, and it was fired from the front. This is the shot Connally thinks was the third shot.
Ms. Kennedy in her testimony quoted above said at first she thought she heard three shots (and she probably did, not hearing the first one which hit nothing.)
Connally mentions several times the rapidly of the shots. The four shots were actually fired within 7 seconds. To tell you the truth, I cannot imagine anyone actually involved in such a horrific event having the capacity to literally count the number of shots. I believe they testified from what they thought they remembered (which for sure is a lot better than I could have done.)
Sam
I think Oswald participated but he was not the only sniper
What the Warren Commission failed to prove was that he acted alone. It is very difficult, usually impossible, to prove a negative, and they were unsuccessful in doing so. I believe Oswald fired two shots at Kennedy and missed both times. The second sniper also in the 6th floor depository almost simultaneously with Oswald's first shot fired the second shot, hitting Kennedy from the back. Oswald fired a third shot and hit Connelly. A sniper on the grassy knoll, stationed there in case the two shooters in the book depository failed to accomplish their mission, the killing of the President, saw when the limo approached Kennedy was woulded but still erect, fired the kill shot from the front. This was the shot that exploded President Kennedy's head. All four shots were fired in less than 7 seconds.
Other prints were also found in the sixth floor, but prints the FBI found but deemed not clear enough to be matched, were left unidentified. 35 years after the shooting, one of those prints was matched by two expert independent fingerprint analysts (one in the United States, one abroad) who were given the prints blindly, meaning no clue as to the case which was being investigated, and no suggestion as to whom the fingerprints belonged). Both came back with the name Mac Wallace, a long-time hit man who took assignments from Clark, Johnson's long-time attorney. He was a hit man, and he was later convicted of another murder.
The theory of the grassy knoll has not been discredited to my satisfaction. Several eye witnesses said there was a shot from that area, and immediately after the incident agents ran toward that spot. One eye witness who said two shots were fired almost simultaneously and he thought there was a shot from the grassy knoll was dismissed. And the theory of a shooter on the knoll is not inconsistent with the wounds.
I think it is totally fine for each of us to process what we feel is a very possible alternative, that is our option if we discard the findings of the official commission. Probably none of us will live long enough to see the further emerging of the literal truth of President Kennedy's assassination. But I do feel it is important when we discuss this issue to do so without overreacting to those with opposing opinions. (Not that you did so, your post was polite and reasoned).
I think it is important to note that Jacqueline Kennedy did not accept the Warren Commission's report. She contracted with an investigative agency abroad to quietly investigate her husband's death. She did receive a final report from the, which report she sealed for 50 years. I believe that means 50 years not from her passing, but 50 years from the death of the last of her children. I believe she did that to protect the security of the Kennedy children. But it raises the question if that foreign investigative group agreed with the Warren Commission's findings, why the need to seal the report for 50 some years?
Additionally, Bobby Kennedy changed the plans he had to go back to Massachusetts, retiring from politics and picking up on his law practice again. He made these plans before the President died. After President Kennedy's death, we saw a reversal in course. While he publicly stood behind the Commission's findings, he privately believed the only way he would ever learn the truth of his brother's assassination was to win the Presidency, a spot from where he could access all documents and evidence not released to the public, and he could wield the power of the President to gather additional information. Why did he do that? Were he and Jacqueline simply conspiracy theorists themselves or were they grieving relatives who simply had to learn the truth about what happened that day John Kennedy died?
Sam
Wallace's wife as well as Johnson's sister were enamored of Kinser (to put it politely)
Your thread details the murder of Kinser, but there is so much more.
"Another strange death occurred at the end of 1961. Johnson's sister Josefa attended a Christmas Eve party at the LBJ ranch, returned to her home in nearby Fredericksburg, and died during the night, supposedly of a cerebral hemorrhage. Despite state law, no autopsy was conducted. Billy Sol Estes later stated that Wallace murdered her. 2/" (see page 167, Blood, Money & Power)
Johnson's sister, following her divorce, led a somewhat provocative life. She was deemed to be a threat to Johnson because of her loose lips. This book details how any perceived threat to Johnson's future would be eradicated, and his sister knew a lot....
The sentence of a court in Wallace's trial for Doug Kinser's murder is reproduced in McClellan's book at "Pictures and Documents: 16.
But Kinser was just another one of many of Johnson's victims. Henry H. Marshall refused to shut down at the USDA an investigation pertaining to Estes, which would expose Johnson's corruption and probably end his career.
At "Pictures and Documents: 30, is a reproduced copy of a grand jury's findings in 1984:
"Based on the testimony presented today, which was not presented in to the previous grand jury, it is the decision of this grand jury, that Henry H. Marshall's death was a homicide, not suicide. The parties named as participants in the offense are deceased, and therefore it is not possible for the grand jury to return an indictment." The findings were signed on March 20, 1984. The "parties" were Johnson, Carter and Wallace.
This book is amazing in its detail chronicling Johnson's life and career, as well as that of others who participated in the corruption and crime revolving around LBJ.
Sam
I am impressed
and a little surprised. Surprised because I was going to suggest that to you. I waited two days before responding and found myself trying instead to give you more detail. I found myself thinking that due to the fierceness of your posts you would not consider even looking at the possibility. So I was certainly wrong about that, wasn't I?
But even if you finish the book and still do not agree with certain things, I feel sure you will be amazed at the wealth of detail you learn about Johnson. I knew a lot about Johnson before this book was published. I made a point of learning more about him years ago. I believe you will be stunned at the level of corruption he practiced all of his adult life, and the number of criminal acts in which he was involved.
But I hope you let me know what you think. I have a ton of political books I have collected over the years, and I count this one as among the best.
Sam
He was a member of Johnson's legal team and had inside information
As such he was privy to confidential information, attended meetings, kept his own notes and files and was the recipient of information of a confidential information from colleagues. That is not "theorist" -- that is a person who has access to facts.
Yes, he does report there were three shooters, and I believe that as well. Wallace was actually recruited by Clark to be the primary sniper for the assassination. He had done work of this nature for Clark. You need to know the relationship between these primary principals extended over decades.
Clark told Wallace to find someone to act as a fall guy for the assassination. That is where Oswald came in, he was that designated fall guy. He had no long-term relationship with this group of people but was lured into attending a meeting of Marxists by Wallace. Wallace slowly built up the relationship and eventually asked him to participate in the assassination. Wallace and Oswald both were sitting in the sniper's nest and the plan was they would fire simultaneously, attacking Kennedy from the rear, and when the limousine reached a certain spot, that was precisely when they both were to fire. Oswald was not perceived to be "reliable" enough to sign him up to be the actual second sniper.
A further prong to the plan was to place a second sniper on the Grassy Knoll who would fire at Kennedy from the front should Wallace and Oswald not accomplish their goal. This was an experienced hit man referred to only as "Junior" and I believe his real name is not divulged. He was recommended by someone in the Government whose name I do not wish to report here. He is referred to in other places also simply as "Junior." In other words, this assassination was planned so carefully, there was no way President Kennedy would live past that limousine ride. No way.
Wallace supplied all of the bullets used that day.
When the car Kennedy was riding on was nearly at the spot where Oswald and Wallace would fire simultaneously, Oswald was so excited he could not contain himself and fired too soon. He did in fact miss. The bullet hit the payment in front of the Lincoln and ricocheted to a spot where it was never found. Wallace fired a quick second shot, aimed at the center of Kennedy's head. But it was a bit low and to the right and hit Kennedy in the shoulder blade. It was deflected and exited at the tie knot and traveled further to crack the windshield. (We have all read about that cracked windshield, but no one ever explained how that happened to my knowledge.) And this is the famous frame we have seen of Kennedy's nervous system taking over, his hands making a fist as they rise with his elbows out.
Oswald shot again and missed again (so there you go, one shooter missed twice) but he did hit Connelly. That bullet hit Connelly's back shoulder, came out at the right nipple, hit his wrist and defected to lodge in Conelly's thigh.
As the car continued to move forward, Junior saw the President still erect and fired a fourth shot. It is described in the book as a shot that Junior made while aiming right between the eyes on Kennedy's face. That was the fatal bullet which exploded his skull. That bullet fragmented as well, with bits of it flung to differed places described by McClellan. According to him, snipers often work in pairs.
I have paraphrased this actual shooting information from Blood, Money and Power , and it can be specifically located on pages 204, 205 and 206.
Regarding the fingerprints, McClellan requested and receive the print evidence from the Warren Commission. But to address your point about the Wallace knowing Oswald, details of prior meetings are discussed in the book. But there is a third possibility why the Warren Commission mentioned a palm print as opposed to a fingerprint. The palm print might have been the most prevalent print (perhaps it was on the side of the box he moved in the sniper's nest) but the fingerprints extending from that palm might have been on the bottom. This is just a guess on my part. I have shuffled many boxes in law firms, and they usually have holes in the side where one inserts their thumbs, the palms are on the side of the box, and the fingers on the bottom.... Darby's ten-page affidavit consists of 5 pages of what is clearly fingerprints.
I think it is totally fine for you to disagree with McClellan but he does not deserve to be treated so disrespectfully. This is a man that had privileged information who had a Herculean struggle to reveal what he knew to the public. I salute him for that. As I read his book the first time, he mentioned certain things that I had read before that were never explored or explained. For instance, the one eye-witness who said he thought he heard two shots fired simultaneously (that would have been Oswald's first shot and the almost immediately following shot fired by Wallace), people who said there was a shot fired from the Grassy Knoll, statements to the fact there were attendees with false Secret Service credentials -- just to name a few. The Warren Commission, one must remember, was controlled by Lyndon Johnson himself. It's final report was not unanimous. It is extremely difficult to prove a negative, if not impossible, but suffice it to say the Warren Commission did not prove Wallace acted alone. The fact it left unidentified one fingerprint for 35 years substantiates that fact.
Sam
Wallace was murdered in 1971 as a result of his exhaust being rigged
He was eliminated because he kept demanding more money from Clark. With part of the carbon monoxide fixed to flow into his car, coupled with the fact he took medicine for narcolepsy, he fell asleep at the wheel and drove off the road. He died of massive head injuries and carbon monoxide poisoning.
I seriously doubt anyone accusing Wallace of a murder would worry about defamation suits during any year. He was a hit man for Clark and even was tried and convicted for the murder of a man named Doug Kinser. McClellan also discusses Wallace's murder of Henry Marshall, which Wallace staged as a suicide.
Wallace is a man who did Johnson and Clark "dirty work" for years.
McClellan credits Wallace with being the one who recruited Oswald to participate in the assassination. Oswald was not considered to be "reliable" but Wallace was looking for -- here comes that word -- a patsy or a fall guy to take the blame.
On the day of the assassination, Wallace parked behind the depository and stood with a man named Yates who had false Secret Service credentials. To any passing observers, the two would be assumed to be there to protect the President. If anyone came too close, they directed them to move away. A little after 11:00, Wallace entered the depository, rode up to the sixth floor and rearranged some boxes with Oswald. He left the print on the box on which he sat.
All of this is reported in McClellan's book, Blood, Money & Power. I have read many articles and books on Kennedy and his assassination. This one book answered a lot of questions, and it was also part of the basis of the show on the History Channel about President Kennedy's assassination that outraged the Johnson family.
Sam
First of all, Barr McClellan was one of Johnson's attorneys, not some remote conspiracy theorist
The fingerprint evidence was obtained through the Warren Commission itself. The print had been lifted from one of the boxes stacked in the sniper's nest of the depository.
Darby was considered an expert in his field. His affidavit attaches pictures (5), and they are the pictures of the left-little finger.
Darby later also reconsidered his affidavit and identified additional match points. He was not originally given Wallace's name or the name of the case. Confirmation was sought outside of the United States since politcs was entering into the debate. The match was confirmed by French print experts, also under a blind analysis.
Frankly, McClellan had first-hand experience with Johnson and worked directly for Clark for decades. For that reason, I am inclined to take his analysis over anyone who did not have that type of direct contact with the principals and the issues.
Sam
I usually agree with Vincent Bugliosi but not this time
Was it his intention to trick the 87 year old Darby when he said the print was a palm print, not a fingerprint? I just don't get that. Darby wrote a 5 page Affidavit in 1998 and attached several exhibits. He examined a latent print, not a palm print:
"A latent fingerprint is the production of the ridges when the finger has been placed on a surface. The ridges of the finger leave a residue, body fluids and chemicals on the surface touched. The latent prints are recovered and compared to the inked prints." (Quote from p. 3 of 10 pages, of A. Nathan Darby Affidavit 9 March 1998), reprinted within Exhibits, Pictures and Documents segment at the end of Barr McClellan's book, "Blood, Money & Power."
I have also read that Darby was threatened with having his credentials revoked as a result of his identification of Wallace's print.
I am going to try to get back to you later today with the other independent expert who reviewed blind this same latent print and had no knowledge with what case it was associated with yet still managed to identify Wallace's print.
But as has been said before, when experts disagree, you be the judge. So if you feel this has been discredited by Bugliosi that is your prerogative. Looking at the overabundance of evidence presented on this one subject by Johnson's lawyer himself, and reading what other experts have said, I do believe there is no doubt Wallace was a shooter that day. Bugliosi had no close personal connection with the chain of events as they evolved over years, but Barr McClellan did. He worked closely with Clark, Johnson's attorney for decades, so I believe those two are much more likely to have the most credible input on this matter.
Sam
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