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chknltl

(10,558 posts)
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 03:46 PM Apr 2015

Seeking a discussion/information on drivers licenses.

I have a brother, Jeff, who is diagnosed schizophrenic, he calls it telepathic-that the doctors know NOTHING about his actual issues. Jeff is cared for/looked after by our other brother Ron, who handles all of Jeff's finances and pays Jeff's bills. I assist Ron with Jeff where I can. It is important to note that Jeff refuses to take any meds for schizophrenia because as I mentioned, he doesn't believe he has this condition.

Jeff has a drivers license, he got it years ago when the schizophrenia wasn't so bad and it gets updated periodically by Jeff and Ron. Ron helps Jeff with that update because Jeff throws a fit if he can't have a drivers license. So far, Ron won't let Jeff know that there is ample money in Jeff's bank account to buy a car. Jeff constantly comes up with grand money making schemes in order to get a car but Ron and I use subterfuge best we can to keep that from ever happening.

Local law enforcement already know who Jeff is, (thanks to his intolerant neighbors). The cops don't pay Jeff visits when there are complaints because they consider Jeff mentally handicapped but harmless. When there are complaints, the cops just call up Ron and ask him to go deal with Jeff.

If you knew Jeff, it would be obvious to you why he should not be licensed to operate a motor vehicle. He has only partial grasp on reality. Further and truly boggling is the fact that should Jeff choose to get one, he could get a firearm too! No, I do not want this to be a gungeon worthy discussion, I am instead interested in hearing about our system, a system that would allow the handicapped out on our roads and highways. Are there ways to keep the 'Jeffs' of our society from getting a drivers license? In Washington State auto insurance is a requirement, could a case be made that Jeff is uninsurable? Is this something that the citizenry of our state, maybe even our nation need to be seeking legislation about?

25 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Seeking a discussion/information on drivers licenses. (Original Post) chknltl Apr 2015 OP
I have a cousin who has schizophrenia and a Doctorate. JimDandy Apr 2015 #1
Your option results in: chknltl Apr 2015 #3
Don't delete. You need answers. JimDandy Apr 2015 #6
Please show my response #13 to those psych professionals you mentioned. chknltl Apr 2015 #14
I have to one JimDandy Apr 2015 #17
Very cool. Thanks for this JimDandy n/t chknltl Apr 2015 #18
Is Jeff's drivers license proof to him that he is Downwinder Apr 2015 #2
We do not know why he wants things. chknltl Apr 2015 #5
Just a thought. Downwinder Apr 2015 #8
i wish i had an answer olddots Apr 2015 #4
FWIW I wasn't really seeking discussion about my brother chknltl Apr 2015 #7
So, are you any safer than Jeff or someone out there Downwinder Apr 2015 #9
Ouch, you strike a nerve here chknltl Apr 2015 #10
if the local cops know him mopinko Apr 2015 #11
You are in a really difficult situation and I feel for you. cbayer Apr 2015 #12
Most here are asking about Jeff, so I'll talk about him and our family chknltl Apr 2015 #13
Jeff is so very lucky to have you and your brother. cbayer Apr 2015 #15
Thanks, you understand now. chknltl Apr 2015 #16
the trailer idea sounds really good. cbayer Apr 2015 #19
Last week the Secretary of HUD announced that HUD was JimDandy Apr 2015 #20
I alerted Ron to this chknltl Apr 2015 #21
Is he a "good" driver? hunter May 2015 #22
I wouldn't know about his driving ability. chknltl May 2015 #23
I was living in Southern California and had a question I needed to ask a prominent U.C. Berkeley... hunter May 2015 #24
Jeff has his moments chknltl May 2015 #25

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
1. I have a cousin who has schizophrenia and a Doctorate.
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 04:05 PM
Apr 2015

She works at the top of her field here in Washington State and functions well with medication. The handicapped should be individually assessed for a drivers license, gun licenses and any other license, just like everyone else is.

You and your brother, Ron, are enabling Jeff to be an irresponsible schizophrenic. Ron should not be updating his driver's license, but letting it lapse so that Jeff MUST retake the driving test. THAT is the simplest and most logical way to evaluate whether he can be a good driver...NOT legislation...NOT unnecessary insurance requirements...and I think you know this.

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
3. Your option results in:
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 05:54 PM
Apr 2015

Jeff walking off, getting a car and come what may. Jeff is plenty capable to walk into a Washington State Dept. of Licensing and walk out with a renewed license. Ron's 'help' is in driving Jeff to where he did just that! Ron and I drive Jeff all over our area. We do this because we know Jeff and we know that he should not be driving himself anywhere.

" The handicapped should be individually assessed for a drivers license, gun licenses and any other license, just like everyone else is. " By who? His doctors can not even make him take his meds much less take away his drivers license and WDOL granted Jeff that license. You OK with that? You OK with knowing that a schizophrenic who chooses to not take his meds is licensable to drive on our roads and highways? If you are aware of some rule within WDOL that can take away Jeff's license or prevent him from renewing it please point it out.

A part of me wants to delete this OP because I am not interested in being called an enabler or told what I know but...there are others out there like Jeff. Well let's see where this takes us first.




JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
6. Don't delete. You need answers.
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 06:21 PM
Apr 2015

Ignore my 'enable' for now. No time to fully reply to your post. Will check soon with 3 currently practicing psych professionals in my family for more answers for you.

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
14. Please show my response #13 to those psych professionals you mentioned.
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 03:42 PM
Apr 2015

I'll thank you ahead of time for doing this. I am very interested in hearing what they have to say.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
17. I have to one
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 05:08 PM
Apr 2015

and will to the 2 others when I reach them. Will pass on whatever they opine in a PM to you...

Downwinder

(12,869 posts)
2. Is Jeff's drivers license proof to him that he is
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 05:52 PM
Apr 2015

part of this world/society? The attitude of many is that if you don't have a picture ID you don't really exist.

You can go to the bank, have a debit card and proper pin number, the correct UID and Password to log into your account and the teller still will not admit that you are you without a picture ID.

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
5. We do not know why he wants things.
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 06:14 PM
Apr 2015

He carries his social security card and his drivers license in a plastic holder tied to a cord around his neck....also on that cord is a smoke detector, (like the one you have in your ceiling) which has twigs and rubber bands and stones and empty cigarette lighters and other random oddities attached to it. Jeff wears other odd contraptions around his legs and he goes nowhere without his bag which is filled with further oddities.

Each and every piece is very important to Jeff. When asked Jeff just says that we wouldn't be able to understand. On rare occasions he has had to dismantle himself from his contraptions in order to enter secure buildings. I once took him to a social security office and Jeff removed enough junk to fill a small gym bag before he could go through their metal detector. (I forewarned the security team about Jeff's handicap and his contraptions, they worked with me on the procedure).

Truth be told, I don't know why anything Jeff has is important to him just that it is damned important to him.

Downwinder

(12,869 posts)
8. Just a thought.
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 06:43 PM
Apr 2015

If he always carries it with him around his neck it might indicate that at some time he has had difficulty proving himself. It is more important than something in a pocket or attached.

 

olddots

(10,237 posts)
4. i wish i had an answer
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 06:11 PM
Apr 2015

or some constructive input ,i.too am very worried about the mental illness surrounding me of which i am part off .

All we can do is hope for a world where education is more revered than entertainment .Ask a theropist for some clues about protecting Jeff , hopefully there are answers .

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
7. FWIW I wasn't really seeking discussion about my brother
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 06:34 PM
Apr 2015

I was seeking discussion about our mentally handicapped and our current state of affairs when it comes to their ability to determine their own destinies. Our society is ever evolving, as is our needs. Mental health issues are growing rapidly within our society, I'll argue that our ways of dealing with them need a re-examination.

I use my own brother as an example, I could just as easily have used myself. I am 100% disabled, PTSD/Manic Depressive. Unlike Jeff I DO take my meds, they help. That said if I chose to stop taking those meds NOBODY can by any law or regulation make me take them. Trust me, I intend to keep taking my meds but the point is I have a drivers license, I can get a permit to carry a concealed weapon too regardless of my eating my meds.

Is it me or is there something inherently obscene with the notion that I can LEGALLY go off my meds, drive my truck down to any gun shop I want to, walk in and purchase a firearm?!? My brother Jeff is in far worse shape than I am but....well you see my point? How many of us are out there? Especially after our society enduring two wars over in the middle east. Others may think me strange for saying it but I think this is a problem-a problem our society should be talking about.

Downwinder

(12,869 posts)
9. So, are you any safer than Jeff or someone out there
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 06:58 PM
Apr 2015

with anger management issues. I would say yes because know and accept your condition. I quit driving due to MS. I was not safe because it took too long for my brain to react.

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
10. Ouch, you strike a nerve here
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 07:23 PM
Apr 2015

This is an important topic between myself and my own doctor. We are monitoring my meds, I've recently been switched to divalproic acid. At first I was like Jeff, I did not want to take any meds but I recognized my anger issues while in the manic phase were ...lets call my driving as a poor decision making on my part.

I report EVERYTHING to my doctor. If the new meds/dosage levels don't reduce that anger during my manic phases I am prepared to give up driving per my doctors instructions. (We are both well aware of this as a problem). I have also forgone owning a firearm in my home per my doctor's instructions for similar reasons.

My own issues with driving has me asking: How many other Vets are out there, with PTSD and/or manic depression issues but unlike me out there on the road blaming everyone else for their problems! When we talk about someone going 'postal' I get it and I am concerned that our society is ignoring a much needed introspection.

mopinko

(69,806 posts)
11. if the local cops know him
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 10:33 AM
Apr 2015

have you talked to them? perhaps there is something they can do to make sure the dl is not renewed.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
12. You are in a really difficult situation and I feel for you.
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 12:58 PM
Apr 2015

As you know all to well, it is not very effective to try to talk someone out of their delusions.

IMO, the best approach is this: "I know you believe that to be true, but I don't share your belief".

In line with this, I might take this approach to the license.

I know that your drivers license is important to you, but we can't help you obtain it anymore. If you want to renew it, then you will have to do that on your own. If you wish to drive, then you will have to take the steps to get your insurance.

Based on what you say, I think this might be a very difficult task for him to accomplish.

This situation often comes up in regards to the elderly as well. In those cases, one can often elicit the help of medical professionals. However, it doesn't sound like that is an option for you.

In terms of legislation, this is a very slippery slope. One doesn't want to make laws that would discriminate against everyone who has or has had a mental illness. OTOH, it's important to keep dangerous people off the road.

BTW, I doubt very much that he could obtain a license for a firearm. Whether he is in treatment or not, he surely has a documented history of significant mental illness.

Editing to add this: Would he be ok with just having a legal, state issued ID? Most states make these available.

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
13. Most here are asking about Jeff, so I'll talk about him and our family
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 03:39 PM
Apr 2015

First in response to you cbayer, both Ron and I tell Jeff that we are unable to see reality as he does. When Jeff insists on things I don't personally believe in like heaven, I have told Jeff that I simply don't believe in it and Jeff seems OK with it. When Jeff goes into discussing his fantasy universe, I almost treat it as a book and I question parts I am unclear on. My engaging in this fantasy reality with Jeff makes him quite happy, I like making my brother happy, all things considered. Regarding Jeff's drivers license it won't fall on my shoulders to take it away from him and below I outline better how my brother Ron handles this.

Regarding my family: I am oldest surviving member of the our family. In descending order I am Chris, age 60; Jeff, age 58; Ron, age 57; Jon age 56; and we lost our youngest brother when he was 18. We have two sisters but unlike us brothers they seem unaffected from Manic Depression, all of us boys have it to various degrees. Our father had severe Manic Depression, according to what I am learning about this disease it is genetic and we got it from him. I also am diagnosed with moderate PTSD from the severe beatings us kids suffered from our father's own illness. I suspect all of us boys have PTSD but I am not a doctor so all I have is a strong suspicion.

My brother Jeff is diagnosed severe schizophrenic. Jeff believes that he is not schizophrenic, that instead he is telepathic and he has a constant barrage of telepathic beings distracting his thoughts. Jeff further claims that he is an alien spirit that is 'all of space' inhabiting Jeff's body, that Jeff is in there with him too. Jeff can to a degree operate normally in our world but any conversation with him eventually drifts off into his fantasy world. (He generally smiles proudly and starts off telling folks that he is 135 million years old, he does this to anyone who tries to talk to him). Jeff refuses to take any meds for schizophrenia because he doesn't believe he has it, that his real problem is his telepathy. Jeff's doctors can not force Jeff to take those meds.

My brother Ron is Jeff's caretaker, I only joined in as an assistant a couple months back. (Long story short I recently reconnected with my family, my own mental handicaps kept us apart for decades). When I bring up Jeff's driver's license issue with Ron, Ron gets pretty irate himself. Ron doesn't want Jeff to have it either but apparently Ron walks a fine line here not wanting to push Jeff away. Jeff does not keep track of his own finances, frankly he says he doesn't even want to keep track of them. Ron has custodial access to those finances and uses this position to moderate what Jeff can and can not do.

As far as Jeff knows, he has only enough money in his account to get by, (pay rent buy clothes on occasion, purchase his weekly needs of oddities like packs of batteries, packs of cigarette lighters, wires, rubber bands and etc). Jeff has much more than he knows in his account but he never asks and Ron never tells. Ron owns the house Jeff lives in. Ron, (and lately I), drive Jeff wherever he wants to go. One of us is checking up on him almost every day. Neither I nor Ron complain about our helping our brother, I am sorry I didn't connect in earlier. Ron also helped Jeff get public assistance to cover Jeff's food needs, rent and electric bills.

Everyone in Jeff's small community, (it's a small covenant run group of about 10 or so homes on a small lake out in very rural Pierce County Washington), is aware that Jeff is handicapped. Most generally ignore him but some (they act like conservatives btw), want Jeff removed from their community. Local law enforcement know about Jeff's condition. When the neighbors call in complaints, the local police departments call my brother Ron instead of sending one of their cops around.

Now that I have come into the picture and with my recent raise in status from 70% disability to 100%, Jeff wants to follow in my footsteps. Jeff too is a vet but he did not serve during wartime like I did. My brother Ron and I both feel that there is a strong case to be made that Jeff's shizophrenia was caused by the Scarlet Fever he caught while in a Navy hospital during his 3 years in the Navy. (Jeff had a sustained temp over 107 degrees, it's in his records, his doctor informed him then that this high a temp can cause brain damage and/or death). Our thinking here is that even should we fight for and win Jeff a case against the Navy, what on earth is any money made for Jeff going to be useful for? When I ask Jeff, he tells me that he wants to go on a world tour with me and the Pope, (no I ain't making that up).

So that's where we are at with Jeff. Ron is in charge of Jeff but allows Jeff an illusion of autonomy. Should Jeff be institutionalized? Frankly neither I nor my brother Ron want that and I can tell you for a fact that Jeff wouldn't be happy. Furthermore we are pretty sure that due to bed shortages, (thank you President Regan), there likely isn't an institution that could take Jeff. Ron has hired a civilian Psychiatrist in order to get a non-VA opinion regarding Jeff. So far Jeff has had 3 VA Psychiatrists and in all cases Ron and Jeff were unhappy with their methods, (for different reasons).

FWIW It was my intention to only use my brother as the example for this discussion more than my documenting my family. (Did I tell you all about my brother Jon yet? His mental health is midway between mine and Jeffs but he is not a veteran and he VERY ANGRILY denies that he has any problems at all! He hasn't even touched bases with medical help! Fortunately due to a couple of felonies for pot growing Jon is unable to own a firearm but he DOES own and legally operates a couple of motor vehicles....just don't get in his way or try pushing him down the road!)

I refuse to believe that my family is unique. I have no proof of it but I believe that there are lots of folks out there on our roads, folks like myself, my brother Jon and even my brother Jeff. We can legally own a motor vehicle, we can legally drive on America's roads and highways. Road rage is a catch-all phrase for many things I suspect. I know for a fact that during my manic phase I get awful road rage but now I understand where mine stems from. I am closely working with my doctor about it. My doctor knows that if he tells me that my driving days are over then that is that, I'll stop driving. So far the meds are helping to keep that fate from happening for me. Also, per my doctor's council, I do not have a firearm in my home. In other words I am now paying attention to and complying with the wisdom of those I need to be listening too! My brother Jeff isn't, my brother Jon can't and I am left wondering about the thousands and thousands of folks out there, like me, like Jeff, like Jon who can legally drive cars and own firearms. That's the discussion I hoped to have but I guess I didn't put it out there well enough in my OP.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
15. Jeff is so very lucky to have you and your brother.
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 04:01 PM
Apr 2015

Without you he would most likely be on the street or in prison or dead.

I hope he is able to stay in his community. As opposed to an institution, has he ever expressed interest in something like a group home? I won't be surprised if the answer is no. Many schizophrenics really are not comfortable in any situation except if they can be entirely alone.

Your family is not at all unique, but as I am sure you know, psychiatric problems are the stepchildren and don't get a lot of recognition or community support.

Most states/counties have NAMI branches (National Alliance for the Mentally Ill). This organizations provides a tremendous amount of support, education and assistance and they aim much of what they do towards family members. If you haven't checked them out, I would suggest you take a look. Just being able to talk to others in a similar situation can be a tremendous relief.

I am so glad that you have found a doctor to work with. It sounds like you are doing great, and I know very well how hard this can be.

The discussion you are asking for is a really difficult one. There are things in place that attempt to protect both patients and communities from harm that may come from being psychiatrically ill. But it's very complicated and each case is entirely different. It sounds like you should have no restrictions on driving or pretty much anything else, but Jeff and Jon may create danger both to themselves and others.

So, check and see if there is any support available in your community. I would start with NAMI, but there may also be a local mental health center or the VA may have something.

It sounds like you and your brother could really benefit from some support.

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
16. Thanks, you understand now.
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 05:07 PM
Apr 2015

Re: Jeff.
He has expressed an interest in getting out of that community, he feels trapped there. Last month he wanted to move into a homeless habitat, (whatever that is) in downtown Tacoma. Ron drove him around Tacoma to the various shelters and service places in order for Jeff to discover on his own that no such place exists. Jeff has shown moderate interest in a VA shelter that he heard is somewhere on the VA hospital grounds at American Lake, we are checking into it. Jeff's latest plan is to have Ron buy him a small trailer and to have it parked next to my house. I am reluctant because I need my peace and as you now know I have my issues too but we may do just that. (I told Jeff I would go along with it and I will keep my word on that). Ron otoh wants to get that trailer for Jeff but instead he wants to put it on his own property. The idea is to have Jeff close so Ron can find a way to get Jeff to start taking the meds he needs.

As you now see, it is my own experience that set me to wonder about the larger societal needs. Currently, if someone like my brother Jeff or Jon was to be pulled over by a cop and cited or worse hauled off to jail, they would face the criminal process now in place. Jeff obviously shouldn't be out there on the road, one would expect that our judicial system would yank his license on the spot but folks like Jon could fall through the cracks. (I just now reflected on an incident Jon had and told me about 20 years ago, knowing now what I know about our illness: Jon ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT have a license!)

I don't have the answers either, I am only recently learning the questions that need asking. Although my own doctor is an angel, he paints a fairly bleak picture when it comes to our societal needs in regards to our mentally handicapped. I've also been directed to chat to NAMI by a fellow DUer, it's probably a good place for me to bring most of this stuff up.

It is very cool of you to be paying attention cbayer, thanks for that.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
19. the trailer idea sounds really good.
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 05:13 PM
Apr 2015

The trick is going to be creating just the right amount of distance, I suspect.

Meds are a huge issue, I know. The newer meds have much less side effects and more patients are willing to take them, but it's still a big problem, as you well know.

The picture for psychiatric patients is indeed bleak. We still treat mental illness entirely different than we treat other illnesses. No wristbands, marches or cute little ribbon pins. Access to care is abysmal. Community resources are generally non-existent.

You have earned your place in heaven, should there be such a place.

Please check out NAMI. If you have not seen it, the book "Surviving Schizophrenia" is a tremendous resource for family members.

And keep loving your brother. He may show it differently, but I bet he loves you right back.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
20. Last week the Secretary of HUD announced that HUD was
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 06:10 PM
Apr 2015

granting money to the Seattle VA for 250 vouchers to homeless Vets to rent housing. Please look into that for Jeff.

Edit to add this link:
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2015/04/20/3750120/hud-announces-grants-for-washington.html

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
21. I alerted Ron to this
Thu Apr 30, 2015, 08:08 PM
Apr 2015

First, thanks for offering up this bit of assistance.

I alerted Ron to this, turns out he was already aware of it but he pointed out a key importance: Jeff is not homeless, the program is for homeless Vets. Ron owns the house Jeff lives in now and Jeff is welcome to live there as long as he likes. Some of Jeff's neighbors are not so happy with this but we ain't so happy with them either.

I'll not be showing this to Jeff because he will think he will be getting some kind of money from this program and plan on using it to do...well something the money was never intended for. If we show it to him and he is unable to get anything he tends to blame us for keeping him poor! Btw, whenever we ask Jeff what he will do with the extra money he could theoretically get from any social programs, he never has a coherent response. His biggest plan stems from his belief that the Navy is gonna give him some sort of a pension dating back to 1979. With that money he wants to take me on some sort of world tour where everyone will adore him for being a 'supreme being'. His latest plan for this tour includes the Pope btw. (He is pleased as punch when he tells me about it too).

Currently Ron has Jeff on what social programs Pierce County and the Federal Government has to offer. He has an EBT card, (food stamps), which Ron uses for Jeff, he has his electric covered through a Pierce County Program, and Ron gets a stipend from another program as Jeff's primary care giver. I should point out that Ron is not without resources himself, that he spends out of pocket for any of Jeffs needs when they come up plus Ron dedicates a whole lot of his time to Jeff, likely about 30-40 hrs per week. (Not sure about the actual hours, maybe more, maybe less). I spend around 10 hrs per week with Jeff.

Thanks again for the heads-up on that program, it was a nice thought anyway.

hunter

(38,264 posts)
22. Is he a "good" driver?
Mon May 11, 2015, 01:49 PM
May 2015

I've had far too many encounters with bad drivers who haven't been labeled with any mental illness.



In my personal (and long past) experience it's always been what happens after I get out of the car.


chknltl

(10,558 posts)
23. I wouldn't know about his driving ability.
Mon May 11, 2015, 02:19 PM
May 2015

Jeff has not driven anything in years. As to his attitude after he gets out of a car....well he is generally chipper. Being "All Of Space" means he is above all this mundane stuff that goes on around him so he is always smiling. Rarely is he coherent for very long, it is all but impossible to have a conversation with him on any topic. If you had any encounter with him and didn't know better, you would likely think he was high on LSD and quite happy. Furthermore you'd probably call the cops on him for driving while drug impaired.

hunter

(38,264 posts)
24. I was living in Southern California and had a question I needed to ask a prominent U.C. Berkeley...
Mon May 11, 2015, 09:27 PM
May 2015

...scientist.

He hadn't answered my mail or phone messages. This was before most people, even scientists, knew what the internet was. I was on the internet, since 1979.

In my mind it was a VERY IMPORTANT question. Some aspects of my off-my-meds OCD can be very amusing.

So I drove up to Berkeley, sleeping in my car, found out his office hours, and we had a lovely long discussion. Office hours are lonely times for so many professors. He didn't realize I wasn't a student of his until he asked as I was leaving.

Amazingly he kept up our correspondence until I moved on to other obsessions.

A couple of days ago I was dropping off some stuff at a Goodwill Industries Blue Box. A semi-homeless woman I often see around came up and asked if she could look through the stuff, before I put it in the box. She took a life size garden squirrel sculpture. I hope whatever place she is officially sleeping, whenever she is not sleeping disguised as a pile of trash behind the supermarket, they let her keep it.

My own grandma was a retired welder and crazy bag lady who happened to own her own home and had a good pension. Unfortunately she became a danger to herself and others. She fought off the police and paramedics for several hours, kicking, hitting, biting, throwing things, and cussing. Naked.

OMG, at her worst my grandma could say things that could render a man permanently impotent. The court put her in a nursing home, but she never lasted long in nursing homes and often had to live with my parents. She was the direct instigator of the very worst weekend of my entire life.

At my own worst, I'm just a quarter of my grandma's intensity.

Unlike your Jeff maybe, or my grandma, I'm the mostly harmless quiet invisible sort.

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
25. Jeff has his moments
Mon May 11, 2015, 11:36 PM
May 2015

I am told being Manic Depressive is hereditary. All four of us surviving brothers have this to varying degrees including Jeff. I have it second worst but I am following my doctors instructions quite carefully taking my Divalproic Acid meds twice daily. (It DOES help somewhat). I know Jeff has this too but like I said in earlier posts, Jeff refuses any meds for anything he may have saying that his sole malady is "telepathy".* Jeff has gone off in fits of rage, (no doubt manic phase), against my sister, (first caregiver) and lately against my brother Ron who is his current care giver. I am not sure if I could face such a tantrum without deep wounds even though I 'get it' from whence such a rage stems.

I am more recent on the scene, I am woefully ill-equipped to be more than an assistant to my brother Ron in this. I report all of my interactions with Jeff to Ron and we strategize various plans to help Jeff with his needs as well as his perceived needs. (Jeff really doesn't need food yet Ron let's me take Jeff twice a month to the local food bank because it makes Jeff happy for instance). Our biggest fear is that Jeff will just wander off, my job is to be the 'good cop' and sniff out any such intentions Jeff may have before he acts on them.

By and large Jeff is harmless but if you don't know about him he appears pretty strange. He wears a plethora of 'gadgets' on his body, around his ankles, his waist and his neck. For the most part he keeps these covered up but even the most unobservant would notice the distinct 'bulges'. These gadgets are mostly conglomerations of sticks and rocks; empty butane lighters; smoke detectors; batteries; bits of wire; rubber bands; small mirrors and an assortment of other small what-nots. Personally I worry about the day when some local Republican thinks to do Homeland Security a favor by mistakenly taking out a bomb toting (but clean shaven), terrorist! (No, Jeff wears no bombs, the lighters he uses only include the colored plastic bits, the butane and metal tops he removed earlier as being useless to him).

You spoke about your need to have those conversations with a college professor. Perhaps I may be going through something similar. Decades ago I received a BA in Cultural Anthropology. So far while talking with Jeff, I have treated the stories from his alter ego "All Of Space" as if they were a science fiction novel. Odd as this will sound, Jeff has painted an entire culture in our discussions, one that I am beginning to map out a bit. Jeff loves the fact that I am the first person in "140 million years" to pay attention. It makes Jeff happy...on that level what more needs saying but I lately wonder if a student of cultural anthropology or maybe even a science fiction novel writer could do well to interview Jeff. Who knows, what's to say that there really aren't two sentient life-forces inhabiting Jeff's body....or maybe spending time with Jeff is rubbing off on me...(note to self: bring this up with my own shrink this Friday!)

*It just dawned on me that I may have an 'in' to Jeff through one of his perceived needs and I have you to thank for it! Jeff expects to emulate me in that I received a 100% disability pension, service connected. Jeff believes he deserves one too but for the Scarlet Fever he had while in the Navy. If as Jeff puts it, his ONLY problem is 'telepathy' then there is no way for him to get that desired 'pension' because there are no records of him 'contracting telepathy' while in the Navy! I should only have to make him understand how the government won't let him have it both ways! I'll bounce this notion off of Ron to see what he thinks, bounce it off of my own shrink too. Thanks...(well I did think it up while responding to you just now, I'll not be taking all the credit!)

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