HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Politics 2014 (Forum) » I stopped a birther rant ...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 07:04 PM

I stopped a birther rant dead in it's tracks today.

My client who I care for is a faux (news) entertainment network 24-7 watcher. Has totally bought into their views hook, line, and sinker.

Well today he got into a rant about President Obama being not being eligible to be president because he was born in Kenya. As he was ranting I broke into the rant with "Where he was born is irrelevant."

He stopped and says that it is relevant because you have to be a natural born citizen to be president. I asked him where President Obama's dad was born. He said Kenya. I then asked him where Pres. Obama's mother was born. He said here in the United States. I then said there you go, because that makes him eligible to be president. He said no it doesn't because he was born in Kenya. I replied with it does not matter where he was born. He could have been born on Mars. Because his mother was a US citizen and that under US law that makes him automatically a US citizen. He had no comeback for that at all. Stopped him dead in his tracks. I just sat there with a smarmy smirk on my face.

Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution;

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

The weight of legal and historical authority indicates that the term "natural born" citizen would mean a person who is entitled to U.S. citizenship "by birth" or "at birth", either by being born "in" the United States and under its jurisdiction, even those born to alien parents; by being born abroad to U.S. citizen-parents; or by being born in other situations meeting legal requirements for U.S. citizenship "at birth". Such term, however, would not include a person who was not a U.S. citizen by birth or at birth, and who was thus born an "alien" required to go through the legal process of "naturalization" to become a U.S. citizen. http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42097.pdf

33 replies, 3501 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 33 replies Author Time Post
Reply I stopped a birther rant dead in it's tracks today. (Original post)
bakpakr Sep 2012 OP
monmouth Sep 2012 #1
KT2000 Sep 2012 #2
JRLeft Sep 2012 #3
indie_voter Sep 2012 #4
StatGirl Sep 2012 #30
Cleita Sep 2012 #5
bakpakr Sep 2012 #7
Cleita Sep 2012 #19
Ecumenist Sep 2012 #23
Cleita Sep 2012 #26
bakpakr Sep 2012 #24
Cleita Sep 2012 #25
Jim Lane Sep 2012 #31
renie408 Sep 2012 #20
Cleita Sep 2012 #22
Warpy Sep 2012 #6
arcane1 Sep 2012 #8
Heather MC Sep 2012 #9
bakpakr Sep 2012 #11
geckosfeet Sep 2012 #10
Maine-i-acs Sep 2012 #12
unc70 Sep 2012 #13
LibGranny Sep 2012 #14
baldguy Sep 2012 #15
DippyDem Sep 2012 #27
baldguy Sep 2012 #28
alphafemale Sep 2012 #16
HopeHoops Sep 2012 #17
southernyankeebelle Sep 2012 #18
Cleita Sep 2012 #21
cr8tvlde Sep 2012 #32
Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2012 #29
Carolina Sep 2012 #33

Response to bakpakr (Original post)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 07:07 PM

1. The President was born in Hawaii same day as my eldest....n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bakpakr (Original post)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 07:08 PM

2. yes - have always wondered

why this continues to be an issue. His mother was an American citizen which makes him an American citizen. If I recall - McCain was born in Panama and no one got their knickers in a twist over that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bakpakr (Original post)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 07:11 PM

3. George Romney was born in Mexico.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bakpakr (Original post)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 07:11 PM

4. Can these people place the President's mother in Kenya?

At the time of his birth? Visa? Travel documents? Anything? When do they think she went there? Why would she leave her family to give birth somewhere completely foreign to her when she and her husband lived in the States?

It's as if they've completely removed the mother, you know the person giving the actual birth, from the equation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to indie_voter (Reply #4)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 11:14 PM

30. "Completely removed the mother . . . from the equation"

Conservatives have a lot of practice doing that!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bakpakr (Original post)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 07:12 PM

5. He was right about not being able to be President.

As a born American in a foreign country with an American parent, yes I had citizenship from the date of birth, however, unless you are born in an embassy or military base, or a territory like Puerto Rico, you cannot be President. I remember the US Consulate telling me that. Of course, he would add, since you are a girl, you won't be considered anyway. (This was back in the forties.)

I'm not telling you this to be a curmudgeon but just to correct an inaccuracy so you don't lose credibility for the correct things you did say.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cleita (Reply #5)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 07:23 PM

7. Did some checking

I was right you can be born abroad to a US citizen and still be President. See my edited OP above.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bakpakr (Reply #7)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:38 PM

19. So you are saying I was lied to all these years.

I actually had to swear an oath to get proof of citizenship, just like aliens to get proof of citizenship. We didn't have to because many of us already had American passports, but it was to make sure just in case anyone in authority tried to question our legitimacy. The judge told all of us born abroad American kids there that we couldn't be President or Vice President. When did they change the rules?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cleita (Reply #19)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:50 PM

23. McCain was born in Panama NOT the canal zone either. He ran...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ecumenist (Reply #23)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:58 PM

26. So then he wouldn't be eligible would he under the rules I had to abide by?

I always questioned that. So does that mean that every kid born to an American father and foreign mother, or vice versa, in a war romance or just from casual sex over seas or across the border can also become President? Or, does that just apply to the ones who look and seem American?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cleita (Reply #19)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:54 PM

24. Actually

The law went into effect as quoted in my post in 1790.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bakpakr (Reply #24)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:55 PM

25. Oh okay, I missed that.

If that's true then, hell with it, I'm running for President in 2016.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cleita (Reply #25)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 08:21 PM

31. No, you were not lied to, and you might not be eligible. (The birther in the OP was right.)

The law as of 1961 (when Obama was born), as to a child born abroad to a U.S. citizen mother and a noncitizen father, was that the child acquired U.S. citizenship at birth provided that the mother had lived in the United States for at least five years after attaining the age of 14. That meant that the mother had to be at least 19 years old. Obama's mother was only 18 when he was born. Therefore, if he had in fact been born in Kenya, he wouldn't have been a U.S. citizen at birth, so his place of birth is indeed relevant.

McCain, BTW, had two U.S. citizen parents, so this analysis is inapplicable to him.

Before you open your exploratory committee for your 2016 run, you should check on exactly what the law was when you were born. The law today is not what it was in 1961, and 1961 might have reflected a change from your birth year.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cleita (Reply #5)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:41 PM

20. Why? Where does it say that?

They posted the part of the Constitution that addresses eligibility and it doesn't say that anywhere.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to renie408 (Reply #20)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:49 PM

22. That's what I was told, by the US Consulate since I was kid (had to get passport renewed there)

and the judge when I was sworn in as a citizen for good. Back then we had to decide before we were eighteen if we wanted to remain US citizens or citizens of the country we were born in. The paper published in 2011 was about McCain and Obama. I think it wouldn't stand a test in the Supreme Court myself.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bakpakr (Original post)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 07:20 PM

6. He might complain and get you fired

but yes, you gave him something to think about.

And just think, when you finally retire, you can be as rude to them as I am when they refuse to listen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bakpakr (Original post)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 07:24 PM

8. If he had been born in Kenya, he would not be eligible because both parents weren't citizens

Since he was born in the US, the citizenship of his parents makes no difference.

The birther was full of shit, but your retort wasn't 100% accurate.

At least, that's how I understand it, I could be wrong

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to arcane1 (Reply #8)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 07:29 PM

9. it didn't have to be accurate it just had to scramble the birthers brain

mission accomplished!

it does not matter where he was born president Obama was born an American citizen

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to arcane1 (Reply #8)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 07:35 PM

11. See Text I was right.

The Naturalization Act of 1790 stated that "the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens". (Act to establish a uniform Rule of Naturalization, 1st Congress, 2nd session, March 26, 1790, 1 Stat.L. 103 at 104, 2 Laws of the U.S., ed. Bioren & Duane (1815) 82 at 83.) This act was superseded by the Naturalization Act of 1795, which did not mention the phrase "natural born citizen"

If one parent is a U.S. citizen and the other parent is not, the child is a citizen if the U.S. citizen parent has been "physically present" in the U.S. before the child's birth for a total period of at least five years, and at least two of those five years were after the U.S. citizen parent's fourteenth birthday.

Immigration and Nationality Act 301(g); 8 USC 1401(g). For children born prior to the enactment of Public Law 99-653 on November 14, 1986, the citizen parent's U.S. presence requirement is ten years, of which at least five years had to have been after the parent's fourteenth birthday.

Not being an ass just want to give you correct info.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bakpakr (Original post)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 07:31 PM

10. Errm. Yeah. Except he was born in the US. Hawaii to be exact.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bakpakr (Original post)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 07:36 PM

12. McCain was born in Panama.

Canal zone I think, but not "in the US".
McCain always gets a pass.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bakpakr (Original post)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 07:39 PM

13. The Congressional research paper is flawed -- for McCain

John McCain probably was not natural born. The weasel words in that report were to avoid having to deal with the issue back in 2008.

There were several RW original intent type law professors arguing that children of citizens born abroad were NB. While the SC has never ruled on that issue, I am quite sure that the Univ of Chicago guy is full if it. So is John Yoo.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bakpakr (Original post)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 07:43 PM

14. Wasn't McCan't born in Panama?

and rMoney's dad in Mexico?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LibGranny (Reply #14)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:07 PM

15. McCain & Rmoney are of course eligable.

They're white.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to baldguy (Reply #15)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 09:01 PM

27. Er umm..does the Constitution say you have to be white to be President?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DippyDem (Reply #27)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 09:48 PM

28. No, but some are under the impression that that's the only thing that matters.

So the guy who was born in Panama, and the guy who's dad was born in Mexico will NEVER EVER, EVER, EVER have their eligibility questioned - because they are white. The issue doesn't even come up.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bakpakr (Original post)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:19 PM

16. And I remember when them talking about trying to over turn that natural born citizen requirement

You know, back when AwwwNold was on a roll.

Remember? Why should we unfairly exclude someone who exhibits the True American spirit and would be a great leader?

Because of a technicality.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bakpakr (Original post)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:25 PM

17. Good for you. rMoney's got more of a problem with heredity than Obama does.

 

Oh, wait, rMoney's a rich white male. Never mind.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bakpakr (Original post)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:31 PM

18. My oldest brother was born in Italy. He was born in my mother's home at the time. My dad was in

 

active duty in the army. He had duel citizenship. At 16 (I think) he had to decide if he wanted to be an american or Italian. My father told him he would be american, period. My mother also became an american citizen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #18)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:44 PM

21. That's how it was in my house.

I had to swear allegiance to the USA and renounce the country of my birth when I was seventeen actually. My mother had also become a citizen long before then. I too had dual citizenship because the country of my birth didn't recognize that I renounced them. They said I had to be 21 to change my citizenship. Yet, it was understood that those of us not born in embassies, military bases or US territories could not become President. However, Obama born in Hawaii is full born citizen. McCain got away with it because the Canal Zone in Panama was an American possession at the time.

If that rule has changed, then hell with it, I'm running for President in 2016.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cleita (Reply #21)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 09:08 PM

32. When this came up early in McCain's candidacy, Congress passed a quickie law

that covered McCain. Helps to be wealthy, white and a Republican, apparently. It shouldn't, however, even be an issue.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/28/senate-deals-with-mccains-citizenship/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bakpakr (Original post)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 11:07 PM

29. When they show up here in D.C. screaming about being taxed enough already, my response...

...why aren't you marching in favor of D.C.? The residents are paying taxes with no representation!!

They have nothing back to say to me.

These people are modern day Klansmen. The birther thing is all about "the black guy". Period!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bakpakr (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 09:23 PM

33. I have often wondered why the media

has never countered this birther idiocy with the fact that BHO's mother was a US citizen. But, of course the media has only fueled the flames, and the ignorance of the birthers is so deep that they either don't know that Hawaii was a state in 1964 or don't know that being born of a US citizen automatically confers citizenship regardless of the place of birth.

That this sort of ignorance on something so basic has proliferated unchecked speaks volumes... so sad. The US is on a downward, devolving spiral.

I am so glad you set your client straight.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread