Wed Aug 29, 2012, 09:38 PM
Doctor Jack (788 posts)
According to Nate Silver, Romney Is Losing Ground This Week
Perhaps some kind of bounce is yet to come but we aren't seeing anything close to that so far. Obama is approaching his all time high in 538's projections. I wonder if Romney is now counting on the debates
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/
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59 replies, 4624 views
| Author | Time | Post | |
| Doctor Jack | Aug 2012 | OP | |
| mojo2012 | Aug 2012 | #1 | |
| Blue Idaho | Aug 2012 | #15 | |
| DavidDvorkin | Aug 2012 | #2 | |
| DavidDvorkin | Aug 2012 | #8 | |
| 2pooped2pop | Aug 2012 | #29 | |
| DavidDvorkin | Aug 2012 | #33 | |
| 2pooped2pop | Aug 2012 | #37 | |
| DavidDvorkin | Aug 2012 | #43 | |
| 2pooped2pop | Aug 2012 | #44 | |
| 2pooped2pop | Aug 2012 | #52 | |
| 2pooped2pop | Aug 2012 | #53 | |
| 2pooped2pop | Aug 2012 | #54 | |
| DavidDvorkin | Aug 2012 | #55 | |
| 2pooped2pop | Aug 2012 | #56 | |
| Doctor Jack | Aug 2012 | #17 | |
| DavidDvorkin | Aug 2012 | #19 | |
| TroyD | Aug 2012 | #47 | |
| DavidDvorkin | Aug 2012 | #49 | |
| Doctor Jack | Aug 2012 | #50 | |
| grantcart | Aug 2012 | #34 | |
| Doctor Jack | Aug 2012 | #39 | |
| grantcart | Aug 2012 | #46 | |
| Doctor Jack | Aug 2012 | #48 | |
| Lifelong Protester | Aug 2012 | #3 | |
| doc03 | Aug 2012 | #6 | |
| ailsagirl | Aug 2012 | #12 | |
| Lifelong Protester | Aug 2012 | #14 | |
| ailsagirl | Aug 2012 | #16 | |
| Cha | Aug 2012 | #22 | |
| 2pooped2pop | Aug 2012 | #30 | |
| Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin | Aug 2012 | #45 | |
| doc03 | Aug 2012 | #4 | |
| Floyd_Gondolli | Aug 2012 | #5 | |
| doc03 | Aug 2012 | #7 | |
| jeff47 | Aug 2012 | #9 | |
| ailsagirl | Aug 2012 | #25 | |
| demwing | Aug 2012 | #31 | |
| Arkana | Aug 2012 | #27 | |
| ailsagirl | Aug 2012 | #10 | |
| Honeycombe8 | Aug 2012 | #11 | |
| progressoid | Aug 2012 | #13 | |
| Doctor Jack | Aug 2012 | #18 | |
| Amonester | Aug 2012 | #20 | |
| elleng | Aug 2012 | #21 | |
| davidpdx | Aug 2012 | #23 | |
| TroyD | Aug 2012 | #41 | |
| huckleberry | Aug 2012 | #57 | |
| davidpdx | Aug 2012 | #58 | |
| Marsala | Aug 2012 | #24 | |
| Arkana | Aug 2012 | #26 | |
| Iggy | Aug 2012 | #28 | |
| SDjack | Aug 2012 | #32 | |
| Brother Buzz | Aug 2012 | #35 | |
| speedoo | Aug 2012 | #36 | |
| TroyD | Aug 2012 | #40 | |
| Brother Buzz | Aug 2012 | #42 | |
| treestar | Aug 2012 | #38 | |
| Marsala | Aug 2012 | #51 | |
| thevoiceofreason | Sep 2012 | #59 |
Response to Doctor Jack (Original post)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:02 PM
mojo2012 (290 posts)
1. Can't wait for the debates
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If by some slight chance, Mitt Romney is counting on the debates, he should be careful what he wishes for.
No teleprompters during a debate. Can't take Paul Ryan, Ann Romney or any other surrogate up to the podium with him. It will be tough to remember which lie or position he stood on last week, the day before, or this morning. So, it will be quite interesting to see how he will fair. I plan to watch all of the debates |
Response to mojo2012 (Reply #1)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:57 PM
Blue Idaho (1,097 posts)
15. Willard's Debate Secret Weapon...
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He'll be wearing... Wait for it...
Mormon Urim and Thummim seer glasses! Yes, just like Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, Willard will be able to divine the correct debate answers with these top secret seer stones set in a lovely silver bow! We're fucked. |
Response to Doctor Jack (Original post)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:18 PM
DavidDvorkin (12,121 posts)
2. Obama has been slowly pulling ahead again on Intrade, too.
Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #2)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:40 PM
DavidDvorkin (12,121 posts)
8. Or he was, until I posted that.
Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #8)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:49 AM
2pooped2pop (2,611 posts)
29. I think
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Last edited Thu Aug 30, 2012, 10:32 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) he was at 57% chance of winning. Then right before the convention, I think he dropped to 54. Since the convention he went up to 56 and now at 55.something.
So unless I have the wrong days, he has actually gone up from 54 pre convention to 55+ on the last day of the convention. I am looking forward to see how it goes tomorrow, and then after our convention, then after the debates. Up just now to 55.9 which is .3 higher than it was a little while ago. so far, intrade doesn't show a bounce for Rmoney convention. |
Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #29)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 12:53 PM
DavidDvorkin (12,121 posts)
33. Yes, it will be interesting to watch it during the Democratic convention
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Interesting and heartening, I hope.
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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #33)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:12 PM
2pooped2pop (2,611 posts)
37. at 56 now. n/t
Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #37)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:49 PM
DavidDvorkin (12,121 posts)
43. 56.2!
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I'm hyperventilating.
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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #43)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:59 PM
2pooped2pop (2,611 posts)
44. lol
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I am going to be excited to see if it moves up next week after our convention.
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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #43)
Fri Aug 31, 2012, 08:33 AM
2pooped2pop (2,611 posts)
52. 56.7 this am
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Friday after the convention.
Looks good to me. |
Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #52)
Fri Aug 31, 2012, 08:45 AM
2pooped2pop (2,611 posts)
53. 57 now. back to the week before the convention.
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Last edited Fri Aug 31, 2012, 09:14 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) 56.2 again. Will have to just go with this evenings closing point to judge it.
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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #43)
Fri Aug 31, 2012, 04:32 PM
2pooped2pop (2,611 posts)
54. Have you looked?
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57.9
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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #54)
Fri Aug 31, 2012, 06:44 PM
DavidDvorkin (12,121 posts)
55. This is fun.
Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #55)
Fri Aug 31, 2012, 06:55 PM
2pooped2pop (2,611 posts)
56. I was going to join and make some bets
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You have to send in your driver lic. copy, 2 utility bills. You can't use a USA bank issued credit card. They will take checks but takes 10 days to clear. Then to cash out, they charge 67.00 for a check or 20 for a money wire but with another 10 and another 20 charged by the other banks it goes through.
After all that I decided to just watch. lol Am having fun with that. |
Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #2)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 11:53 PM
Doctor Jack (788 posts)
17. Intrade is filled with republicans
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And they are always wrong
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Response to Doctor Jack (Reply #17)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 12:43 AM
DavidDvorkin (12,121 posts)
19. I have my doubts that Intrade is filled with Republicans
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I do know that Intrade has a good predictive record.
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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #19)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 05:58 PM
TroyD (4,472 posts)
47. InTrade was wrong about the Supreme Court's healthcare decision
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As Nate Silver says, sometimes InTrade is guilty of playing follow the leader and just following what the popular wisdom is.
They also predicted Romney would win the Colorado primary and didn't see Santorum coming. |
Response to TroyD (Reply #47)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 07:07 PM
DavidDvorkin (12,121 posts)
49. No, they were not wrong
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People keep saying that, but I was watching Intrade continually, and I saw the odds that the SC would overturn the ACA drop to 50% by the time the decision was made.
I'd consider that a pretty accurate call. |
Response to TroyD (Reply #47)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 07:10 PM
Doctor Jack (788 posts)
50. They were wrong about Perry
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For awhile they had him as a shoe in to win the nomination and to become president. They also didn't see Paul Ryan becoming VP. They had Portman as the favorite. Those are some big things to get wrong.
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Response to Doctor Jack (Reply #17)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 01:52 PM
grantcart (38,892 posts)
34. Then you should buy against them and make a mint, if "they are always wrong"
Response to grantcart (Reply #34)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:32 PM
Doctor Jack (788 posts)
39. Looks like I struck a nerve
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Do tell why you are so offended.
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Response to Doctor Jack (Reply #39)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 05:55 PM
grantcart (38,892 posts)
46. because the "wisdom of the crowds" has been researched at the peer review macro
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economic level and found to be much more reliable than opinion polls. The fundamental reason for that is that they are putting money behind their perception and not just giving a flippant opinion to a pollster.
You can learn about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds You can read about predictive markets here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prediction_market Prediction markets are championed in James Surowiecki's 2004 book The Wisdom of Crowds, Cass Sunstein's 2006 Infotopia, and How to Measure Anything: Finding the Value of Intangibles in Business by Douglas Hubbard. The research literature is collected together in the peer reviewed The Journal of Prediction Markets, edited by Leighton Vaughan Williams and published by the University of Buckingham Press. The journal was first published in 2007, and is available online and in print. In John Brunner's 1975 science fiction story The Shockwave Rider there is a description of a prediction market that he called the Delphi Pool. In October 2007 companies from the United States, Ireland, Austria, Germany, and Denmark formed the Prediction Market Industry Association, tasked with promoting awareness, education, and validation for prediction markets. . . . However, Steven Gjerstad (Purdue) in his paper "Risk Aversion, Beliefs, and Prediction Market Equilibrium," has shown that prediction market prices are very close to the mean belief of market participants if the agents are risk averse and the distribution of beliefs is spread out (as with a normal distribution, for example). Justin Wolfers (Wharton) and Eric Zitzewitz (Dartmouth) have obtained similar results, and also include some analysis of prediction market data, in their paper "Interpreting Prediction Market Prices as Probabilities." In practice, the prices of binary prediction markets have proven to be closely related to actual frequencies of events in the real world. Now you didn't hit a nerve but your comment upthread 17. Intrade is filled with republicans And they are always wrong It is the kind of juvenile remark that you will find gets taken apart here. You didn't strike a nerve because there wasn't enough substance in your comment or your analysis to be taken seriously. You will find that you are entitled to your opinion at DU but if you start throwing out childishly inaccurate facts like "they are filled with Republicans" or that they "are always wrong", you will, more often than not find somebody who knows more about it than you and challenge any loosely offered data that is clearly not true. Next time you want to make a statement in an absolute fashion, like "they are always wrong" you better have some links to back up what you are talking about or be prepared to be taken apart. BTW Intrade currently has the President at 56% http://www.intrade.com/v4/home/. After the Democratic convention expect it to go back to 58. If you think that they are 'always wrong' then empty your savings buy Romney and make a bundle. |
Response to grantcart (Reply #46)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 07:00 PM
Doctor Jack (788 posts)
48. Well someone needs a hug
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Last edited Thu Aug 30, 2012, 07:06 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) I wasn't aware you were so passionate about gambling. I was wrong to suggest that the people on intrade are not always correct in their predictions. They are the modern day Oracles of Olympia. And repubicans don't even know about the website. Its is 100% democrats. Getting into intrade is like entering Hogwarts. Only liberals can find the way in.
Just don't stab me, alright? |
Response to Doctor Jack (Original post)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:23 PM
Lifelong Protester (4,813 posts)
3. Romney is not a good debater.
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Unless he can bet President Obama $10,000 on some question.
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Response to Lifelong Protester (Reply #3)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:27 PM
doc03 (13,858 posts)
6. I heard Romney is a masterdebater n/t
Response to Lifelong Protester (Reply #3)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:51 PM
ailsagirl (9,589 posts)
12. I heard one of the talking heads say Nitt was a very focused debater
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Can't remember who. I guess I blocked it out of my mind until now.
Obama has the truth going for him. Nitt has to defend a pack of lies. |
Response to ailsagirl (Reply #12)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:56 PM
Lifelong Protester (4,813 posts)
14. Is the talking head basing that opinion on the debates
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in the primaries??? The guy on SNL did better than him.
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Response to Lifelong Protester (Reply #14)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 11:00 PM
ailsagirl (9,589 posts)
16. It might have been Julian Epstein but I can't really say for sure
Response to ailsagirl (Reply #12)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:31 AM
Cha (125,787 posts)
22. willard mitt is definitely focused on
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which lie he's going to tell next.
I can't wait until Pres Obama Mopped the Floor with him and drinks his milkshake. |
Response to ailsagirl (Reply #12)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:52 AM
2pooped2pop (2,611 posts)
30. Obama not only has the truth
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He has integrity going for him. He has charisma going for him. Romney has none of either. I think Obama is going to make any sane person know who to vote for.
We know the repigs are not sane, so they will still vote for Mittfaced. |
Response to ailsagirl (Reply #12)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 05:16 PM
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (6,600 posts)
45. Nitt has a thin skin.
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Remember his exchange with Rick Perry?
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Response to Doctor Jack (Original post)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:24 PM
doc03 (13,858 posts)
4. What is his track record for predicting the winner? n/t
Response to doc03 (Reply #4)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:25 PM
Floyd_Gondolli (1,245 posts)
5. He was very accurate in 2008
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But that didn't take a genius. I like his stuff. Very fact based and rational.
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Response to Floyd_Gondolli (Reply #5)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:39 PM
doc03 (13,858 posts)
7. It worries me when I keep seeing all those polls being quoted in
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the media that show it a dead heat or Romney ahead. I guess it is to their best interest to make it a horse race
for ratings. At least I hope that is what is happening. |
Response to doc03 (Reply #7)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:47 PM
jeff47 (7,899 posts)
9. When they want to make it seem close, they use the popular vote
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But as we all learned really well in 2000, we don't elect via popular vote.
90% of Utah residents voting for Romney helps the popular vote. But it wins the same 5 electoral votes as 51%. |
Response to doc03 (Reply #7)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:37 AM
ailsagirl (9,589 posts)
25. If I hear about another 'dead heat' poll, I'll scream!
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I question their veracity--I really do.
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Response to doc03 (Reply #7)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:59 AM
demwing (11,152 posts)
31. what national or swing state polls show RMoney ahead?
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Rasmussen is the only one that does so consistently, and even Raz had Obama a point ahead yesterday
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Response to doc03 (Reply #4)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:42 AM
Arkana (22,312 posts)
27. He predicted 48 of 50 states correctly.
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Missed on Indiana and Missouri--gave Missouri narrowly to Obama and Indiana narrowly to McCain.
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Response to Doctor Jack (Original post)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:50 PM
ailsagirl (9,589 posts)
10. Cool!!
Response to Doctor Jack (Original post)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:51 PM
Honeycombe8 (18,265 posts)
11. There hasn't been enough time, though, it seems.
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The article seems to indicate the bounce comes in the time period after the convention and before the next party's convention. And he's not sure there's a correlation to who wins the election ultimately.
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Response to Doctor Jack (Original post)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:51 PM
progressoid (27,397 posts)
13. I predict the smallest bounce in history.
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I think the Repubs have a bigger enthusiasm problem than the media says we do.
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Response to Doctor Jack (Original post)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 11:55 PM
Doctor Jack (788 posts)
18. The RCP average right now is 1.1 points for obama
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In 2008, McCain got to +4 or so after the convention. My biggest hope right now is that it never goes positive for Romney.
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Response to Doctor Jack (Original post)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 12:47 AM
Amonester (10,256 posts)
20. Robmehood's gonna be called on his lies by the President so bad...
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that he's gonna want to chicken-out to France after the first one!
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Response to Doctor Jack (Original post)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 01:43 AM
elleng (40,928 posts)
21. Good to hear.
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Not surprised, but he hasn't 'appeared' yet. Let's see tomorrow, weekend, and next week. Both parties will, I assume, be on the road then, REALLY campaigning.
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Response to Doctor Jack (Original post)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 06:30 AM
davidpdx (9,142 posts)
23. Off-Topic question
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Sorry for asking....
Does anyone know if the NY Times has been enforcing the rule that you can only go to the website 10X a month and does that apply to NS's blog? |
Response to davidpdx (Reply #23)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:34 PM
TroyD (4,472 posts)
41. I think the NY Times is restricting non-subscribers to 10 articles per month, yes N/T
Response to davidpdx (Reply #23)
Fri Aug 31, 2012, 07:16 PM
huckleberry (733 posts)
57. Go to NYT via Google News
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That's what I've been doing and it's working!
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Response to huckleberry (Reply #57)
Fri Aug 31, 2012, 10:49 PM
davidpdx (9,142 posts)
58. Thanks for the tip
Response to Doctor Jack (Original post)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 06:52 AM
Marsala (2,086 posts)
24. Nate's model takes convention bounces into account, and penalizes if there isn't one
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So any bounce Romney gets will have its effect on Romney's winning percentage blunted.
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Response to Doctor Jack (Original post)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:41 AM
Arkana (22,312 posts)
26. I'm really glad that Nate is hewing closer to the numbers game.
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He's incredibly good at it.
What he sucks at, however, is offering his political opinion. I don't want him to become the 2012 version of Chuck Todd--numbers wizard turned toady pundit. |
Response to Doctor Jack (Original post)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:46 AM
Iggy (1,418 posts)
28. OF COURSE He's Losing Ground
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David Brooks and other pro-GOP bobbleheads have been saying the past few weeks, "well, the voters
are just now starting to pay attention to the election/candidates..." right.. and as they see and hear Rmoney, they don't like it. why? Obv because he's an uber-wealthy giant-ass phony of the worst sort. he and his princess wife are desperately attempting to sell themselves as "normal" people.. "just like you guys". what a Load. the people just starting to pay attention are not buying it. this election reminds me of 1996-- when the GOP put up the BORING, hapless Bob Dole as their pathetic candidate. the rest is history; he got his ass kicked by Clinton. |
Response to Doctor Jack (Original post)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 09:06 AM
SDjack (1,075 posts)
32. rMoney and Obama should have to debate nude. That way,
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rMoney can't wear the secret radio receiver that Bush used in his debates. Rove was on the transmitter, giving Bush the "answers".
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Response to Doctor Jack (Original post)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:18 PM
Brother Buzz (8,494 posts)
35. Smart money listens to the bookies: Here's what U.K. bookies are saying about the presidential race
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It's illegal to wager on elections in the U.S. -- but in Great Britain, anything goes. Here's what U.K. bookies are saying about the presidential race.
Do you think you know who'll win? The U.K. bookies now heavily favor Obama: He's quoted at 2/5, compared with 15/8 for Romney. Put another way, they currently give Obama a roughly 70% chance of winning, against 35% for Romney. (Those odds have moved sharply towards Obama in recent weeks, following Romney's missteps, although the polls in the U.S. don't reflect that.) http://www.smartmoney.com/invest/strategies/romney-vs-obama-the-oddsmakers-weigh-in-1344372024237/ |
Response to Brother Buzz (Reply #35)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:11 PM
speedoo (11,229 posts)
36. Nate Silver's %'s are exactly the same as the UK bookies.
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70% Obama.
I guess that's good news, but we still have a long way to go. |
Response to Brother Buzz (Reply #35)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:32 PM
TroyD (4,472 posts)
40. How come they don't add up to 100% like InTrade?
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they currently give Obama a roughly 70% chance of winning, against 35% for Romney. |
Response to TroyD (Reply #40)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:46 PM
Brother Buzz (8,494 posts)
42. Fuzzy math
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Bookies need to make a profit, don't you know?
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Response to Doctor Jack (Original post)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:26 PM
treestar (41,520 posts)
38. Remember in 2008 how they got a convention bounce
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Due to the Failin' excitement. They were ahead in the polls for awhile.
This time they can't even do that. |
Response to treestar (Reply #38)
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:07 PM
Marsala (2,086 posts)
51. Don't jump the gun
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In 2008, the bump wasn't visible until after the convention ended, and it brought two weeks of terror for us.
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Response to Doctor Jack (Original post)
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 10:40 AM
thevoiceofreason (3,408 posts)
59. Obama chance of winning 72% as of 9/1/12 in the morning
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Nate now has it at the highest it has been in weeks - up 3.6% since 8/24.
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