To me this should be relevant to African Americans

[Bread and Circus]

No matter who you support I think it should be a big deal.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/12/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-says-over-half-black-workers-earn-l/

And that's working African Americans. What about the huge percentage that don't have access to good jobs?

I just don't understand how this isn't a huge issue...

[WillyT]

1. Hillary's Got That In Her First Few Days...

[Rebkeh]

2. She wants $12, not $15

And that's only if you believe she would actually follow through. I don't believe it.

Also worth noting that Hillary calls for debt free college as opposed to Bernie's free college for all -not the same thing there either.

[WillyT]

3. Right There With Ya...

One of the the things Democrats need to learn, is negotiations.

You don't offer $12 when everyone knows you'll be lucky to get $10...

You start at $17 to get to $14 or $15.

We always apologize for the things we want, and then slink away to a lower amount.

[99th_Monkey]

4. I don't get it either. -nt-

[Chitown Kev]

5. If it's relevant to African Americans

then you should probably cross-post to to the AA forum...if you haven't burned up any goodwill over there, that is...

[Bread and Circus]

7. It is kind of a tremendous statistic don't you think?

[Chitown Kev]

20. Maybe...can Sanders get that passed, though?

[Bread and Circus]

23. 60% of working age African Americans make less than $15.46 an hour.

To me that is shocking.

They also have the least per household annual income of all racial demographics in the US. Below whites and Asians by a huge margin. Below latinos by a significant amount.

I wasnt totally aware of the severity of the issue until I read the link about what Sanders said.

So Sanders is raising awareness of the extent of the problem and wants to do something about it. I think that is admireable.

But back to the point to me this seems like an icredibly profound issue but I feel it is almost passed over, even among Democrats.

I also feel you can't help the African American community without addressing this issue as a centerpiece of your platform.

Shouldn't we be discussing it more?

[Rebkeh]

27. Not by himself, no

Which is why it's on us. We can't vote every four years and hope for the best like we usually do. Sanders can drive but the people have provide the power, all year long, every year.

He turns out the people that had given up, it can be done.

[Depaysement]

6. In some quarters

There is little concern for the African-American working class and the fact that wage-based initiatives, like the Fight for $15, would disproportionately benefit minorities.

[yardwork]

8. "Should" be relevant?

Do you not see how condescending it is to tell a whole group of people - a group to which you don't belong - that they "should" be supporting the candidate you support, and if they don't, they're just stupid or something?

[Bread and Circus]

9. Do you think it is relevant?

[yardwork]

12. I'm not black. Your condescending OP isn't aimed at me.

[Bread and Circus]

13. So you are not concerned about this issue?

[Squinch]

26. See, this kind of shit right there is where it becomes clear that you aren't really

interested in this as an issue, rather than as some kind of illogical "gotcha" to use as a finger point.

Now, give another one of those "so don't want to see social justice?" answers. They do amuse me.

PS. Many people knew that a high percentage of African Americans earn low incomes before Bernie said it. His having said it does not make it a revelation to most of us.

[Rebkeh]

28. Yep ^ n/t

[Bread and Circus]

31. Then where is the discussion? I am not the one being disingenuous here.

I mean that. As I said elsewhere we are are constantly reminded to be concerned about African American issues on DU Primaries. We are admonished to listen and be supportive.

However rarely do we actually see any issues being discussed. And when they are it's not in a subastantive manner a lot of the time.

Usually it's just a bunch of demagoguery where the real issues that hurt real people are skirted around.

Extreme poverty. Huge underemployment and being on the bottom of the economic pile is not just something to be "aware" of it is something to be examined closely and discussed at great length.

But here we are not discussing it.

Here we are having you do the same thing over and over again which try to make this a personal thing instead of actually discussing the issue to begin with.

Why? I honestly don't know it seems as if many here would rather just insult other people and make veiled attempts to infer they are racist rather than discuss the issues as they stand.

And that's part of what Bernie Sanders brings to the front and that's why I support Sanders and not Clinton.

I am so tired of bullshit and bullshit artists.

[Squinch]

35. Yes. You ARE the one being disingenuous here.

[AgingAmerican]

47. You just can't cite where

It's pretty obvious Hillary supporters don't want this issue discussed in any substantive way.

[Squinch]

49. Oh, dear lord. That is your most moronic post yet. And that's saying something.

[AgingAmerican]

58. So you cannot cite where the OP is 'disingenuous'

You instead seek to rug sweep the issue.

Have a nice day.

[Number23]

62. Thank you Squinch. I am a big fan of your posts

And this one just confirms it.

[Squinch]

67. It's mutual, Number23.

[AgingAmerican]

43. Condescending?

Should this be rug swept instead?

[Chitown Kev]

21. No...even though there are blackpeople

here (like myself) that have long told him and his crew otherwise, nothing condescending here to see...move right along.

[Bread and Circus]

25. Well then you should have brought it up yourself.

Seriously. This is a free country. Black people don't get to own what we do and don't talk about when it comes to facts.

You may have special insight on what it emotionally means to be black in America but you don't get to decide what other people talk about.

If I am wrong and economic issues aren't relevant to African Americans then just be big enough to say so.

And honestly I don't care if you think I am being condescending. You don't represent the collective voice of black folks. No one appointed you the voice of black America.

It is a free country. Free speech is important. You can't silence people just because they aren't part of the same subgroup as you.

And no I am not intimidated with this "Bernie supporters are turning off black people" thing. I don't care who you vote for in the end.

I keep hearing how we are supposed to "listen" to black issues but I rarely see anything posted in DU Primaries as to what your issues are.

So if they aren't economic just say so.

But when a group of people in America are dead last in income and 20% are unemployed and 60% make less than $15.46 an hour you would think there would be an outrage.

I am outraged? Are you?

[yardwork]

38. "Should" again. Black people should do a lot of things, according to you.

[AgingAmerican]

45. A direct reference to certain folks here

Who would have us believe AAs don't care about economic issues.

[Armstead]

44. It's a damn figure of speech. Everyone uses it in some context all the time

I suppose Clinton has never said "we should..." in her life. Or that "people should care about...."

[firebrand80]

10. Who said it wasn't?

[Bread and Circus]

11. What do you think of it?

[firebrand80]

14. I think the minimum wage is too low

[Bread and Circus]

15. Where do you think it should be set?

[firebrand80]

16. Somewhere higher than $10

[Bread and Circus]

17. How about $15 as a start and increased with regional cost of living and inflation?

[firebrand80]

18. Sounds great, but it won't pass

[Bread and Circus]

19. Maybe not today or tomorrow... but someday with enough pressure it is possible.

Anything is possible if enough people apply consistent pressure over a period of time. I think that was what Obama was originally about.

Yes we can.

Change we can believe in.

I think that's what Sanders' campaign is about now.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. 'It won't pass' is what people have said about everything that ever passed.

In my lifetime, I spent years hearing that marriage equality was 'impossible, for a least a generation if not more'. But it was not impossible. Cannabis is legal in my State, I spent my adult life being told that marijuana would never, ever be legal because of this, that and the other thing. On both issues the naysayers always spoke in terms of absolute certainty. Right up until they were proven wrong.

[ismnotwasm]

24. Perhaps It's about more than wage

There's a lot of racism in individual and Institutional and plain old history that needs to be examined closely---very closely--the lines of influenced traced and connected with current racism, both individual and institutional. Wages and justice reform are part of it, not nearly all of it. Tossing 15 dollars an hour out and expecting it to solve and salve, isn't going to be nearly enough. I realized that isn't what you are suggesting, but perhaps looking it in that context will help you with your perplexity.

[BlueMTexpat]

29. IMHO, spot on! eom

[Armstead]

46. How does being paid more contradict racial progress?

That's a perplexing implication.

Yes there are other deep racial issues and problems too. But fer crikey sake, how about supporting something that is a step in the right direction, and will definitely help in a big way?

Or what, he should only advocate a higher minimum wage for AA's? Unless it is specifically racially defined, it's meaningless?

I'm sure you don't believe that.

[Codeine]

30. It's a good thing you're here to inform them.

"Dear Black People,

It has recently come to my attention that you're all like, you know, poor and stuff. Maybe you should pay attention to this issue! I mean, come on -- that should be relevent!"

[Bread and Circus]

32. That's just your crap ad hominem atrack rather than actually discussing issues

Are you proud of yourself?

[Codeine]

33. You really do not get how tone deaf you are on this issue,

do you?

African-Americans do not need you to explain this shit to them. They've long since figured it out.

[Bread and Circus]

34. A major Democratic candidate is making it the centerpiece of his campaign.

Last edited Fri Nov 13, 2015, 04:27 PM - Edit history (1)

It is vital to African American issues.

Yet you don't want to discuss it and would rather attack me and try to intimidate me.

And you don't see what's wrong here?

You are the problem.

[yardwork]

39. How do you feel about universal healthcare these days?

I remember when you were strongly opposed to it.

[Bread and Circus]

48. As I said elsewhere I am for at least a public option in addition to the ACA

But I would really like Medicare for all / sungle payer with yhe option to buy supplemental coverage.

I also support of Physicians for a National Health Program.

www.pnhp.org

[Squinch]

40. In what way is he making it the centerpiece of his campaign?

And no, he is not the problem.

As a voter who will happily vote for either Bernie or Hillary, I will tell you that YOU are the problem. You are insulting black people when you assume that this issue is new to them, and that they are wrong not to vote for Bernie because he mentioned this statistic in a speech.

Do you get that? YOU are INSULTING a crucial demographic by assuming they are ignorant and uninformed, when in fact, if this statistic is news to you, YOU are the one who is ignorant and uninformed. If you, and other Bernie supporters continue to do that, if he does manage to win the primary, you will kill his campaign.

It is the reason I am now leaning toward Hillary. I can't trust Bernie's followers not to say this tone-deaf shit that will cost him the election, and I won't have a Republican in the White House. Really, Bernie's biggest liability, as far as I can see, are his supporters who pull shit like this.

[Bread and Circus]

50. You are making this a personal issue. Not me. You are squirming around the issues.

And if you don't think Sanders is making economic justice the centerpiece of his campaign, then you aren't paying attention.

That's your problem not mine.

[Squinch]

53. And if you don't think the other candidates will address the minimm wage, you are being

silly. And if you feel the need to continue to tell black people how to vote, that's Bernie's problem.

I'm not squirming around the issues, I'm squirming around how tone deaf are the supporters of a candidate who should be doing better. Gee, maybe those two issues are related??? Nahhhhh!

[Bread and Circus]

61. I doubt they are related at all. That would be stupid.

I imagine Black people in general, not on DU necessarily, but out in the real world probabaly like Clinton because they believe they know her and can trust her.

I am sure they don't base their opinions on what Sanders supporters say here on DU.

Also I never told anyone how they should vote. Try to find a link. You can't because you are making stuff up and being a jerk.

I am not even saying economic issues should be relevant to African American DU'ers but rather should be relevant to African Americans in general. Given that people, white black, or otherwise vote with their pocketbooks it's not a stretch to say what Bernie is saying is relevant to them.

Seriously what the fuck is so wrong with bringing this stuff up? Why is this so threatening to Hillary supporters?

Do they not care about economic justice?

[Squinch]

66. "Do they not care about economic justice?" Jesus on a popsicle stick.

Still, you have nothing but this shit, on an issue that is not new to anyone but you.

No one is threatened by your bringing it up. People are offended by your demands that it be discussed because you have just become aware of it, and by yet another white male Bernie supporter suggesting that people who are not white males are not well informed and rational voters.

Do you really think that African American poverty is news? Do you really think that African Americans are not aware of it? Do you really not see how asinine it is for you to take that position? Do you really think you are in a better position than they are to understand how they are affected by it? Do you really think that your demands that they "discuss" it with you, though you are not really engaging in anything like a discussion, has any weight with anyone but you? And do you really think that the "You're not engaging with me and my ridiculous position on this, and therefore you don't care about it" argument has any merit and is worth anyone's time?

I am guessing that your answers to all those questions is yes, and that is the central problem here.

[Number23]

63. Hell yes. Definitely a fan now.

Do you get that? YOU are INSULTING a crucial demographic by assuming they are ignorant and uninformed, when in fact, if this statistic is news to you, YOU are the one who is ignorant and uninformed. If you, and other Bernie supporters continue to do that, if he does manage to win the primary, you will kill his campaign.

TELL IT!! TELL IT!

[Squinch]

36. No, really that is a pretty close paraphrase of what you are doing here.

Are YOU proud of yourself?

[Bread and Circus]

51. I am proud of what I have written and I am glad I started this thread.

Absolutely.

[Squinch]

55. How sad. For Bernie, that is.

[Bread and Circus]

56. OK keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel superior.

[Squinch]

65. How I feel isn't the issue. How Bernie is doing, on the other hand, is the issue.

And no matter what you tell yourself he isn't breaking out.

And he does have a great message.

So why might he not be able to appeal to large swaths of non white, non male voters.

Gee. I wonder.

[Cali_Democrat]

37. Nailed it. nt

[Romulox]

42. That's democracy for ya. nt

[Romulox]

41. How dare you? Only fabulously wealthy white women can speak for African Americans!!1!!

[Bread and Circus]

52. Hillary Clinton used racist tactics in 2007 and 2008 against Obama.

And that is a documented fact.

[Romulox]

54. I'd like to suggest that remembering that fact is, itself, racist.

[Bread and Circus]

57. I hope you are kidding me.

I can hardly know what B.S. people believe around here anymore.

[Romulox]

60. Of course I am.

Or am I?

[MineralMan]

59. You could ask some black people.

They'll be happy to tell you. You won't have to wonder, then.

Telling black people what "should" be relevant to them, though...well...

[JoePhilly]

64. Could be Stockholm Syndrome ... right??

(This is one tone deaf OP)