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Tue Aug 28, 2012, 02:09 PM

Ron Paul, Julian Assange, Glenn Greenwald and the Libertarians’ Electoral Strategy

Ron Paul gave his speech in Florida Sunday night, at some distance from the convention that had offered him a time slot only if he would cleanly endorse the GOP nominee -- and only if party censors could preview his text

The Libertarians are the third largest political party in the US: in every election, they collect a few tenths of a percent of the vote. If each and every Libertarian voter rustled up several hundred new Libertarian recruits, they’d become a major force. But they haven’t done that yet. The Libertarians did win an electoral vote, once, back back in 1972, but it wasn’t because they cooked up a big mess of organized dialing and door-knocking: an elector, pledged to vote for “Tricky Dick” Nixon, simply pulled his own dicky trick and voted the Libertarian ticket. The GOP does not quickly forgive or forget, and though Paul might call himself a Republican, everybody knows he’s really a libertarian. Suspicion clearly remains, that Paul (like the faithless elector of 1972) is ready to betray the GOP for his Libertarian friends

So Paul spoke Sunday at the Sun Dome, not at the Times Forum. Some of what he said there is actually interesting -- but only because it is very very unoriginal. Paul called Bradley Manning “the equivalent of Daniel Ellsberg” and said “Manning hasn’t caused the death of anybody”. He complained that Sweden, under US pressure, was pursuing false charges against Julian Assange and would extradite Assange to the US for prosecution

The Libertarians, of course, have wandered forlornly for decades, hoping to pick up whatever support they could wherever they could. Back during the Vietnam War, for example, Libertarians often tried to recruit with the hook that they would legalize marijuana. And there were reports last year that Libertarians flocked to Occupy! events in hopes to win converts there. So one might wonder: has Paul just stumbled as an opportunist into Assangist territory?

But there really might be more to the story. The cypherpunk culture, that spawned Assange, had laissez-faire libertarian sympathies. And Assange calls himself a libertarian. He called himself a libertarian in a 2010 interview with Forbes; he called himself a libertarian on 60 Minutes in 2011; and he called himself a libertarian while pretending to consider a run for the Australian Senate in 2012. More precisely, Assange self-identifies as a free-market libertarian who dislikes regulation. His personal libertarian ideology would explain why Assange was eager to take credit for Climategate: when he later gushed "We released over ten years of emails from the CRU and those climate scientists!" maybe he was just thrilled (as a friend of free markets and foe of regulation) to have played a role in scuttling the Copenhagen Summit

Various Libertarians manage to repeat the very very unoriginal tale Ron Paul was telling in Florida in support of Assange
Raimondo, for example, firmly believes “the contest between Julian Assange and most of the world’s governments” is “a clear cut case of good versus evil” -- then trots out the now-familiar theory in which female Swedish CIA assets honey-trapped Assange to force him to face a kangaroo court in Sweden before being extradited to the US for detention at Guantanamo

Another well-known Libertarian, who plows these fields regularly and diligently, is Glenn Greenwald, associated with the Cato Institute. The day after the November 2010 election, Glenn Greenwald addressed Paulites in Wisconsin to discuss the possibility of splitting progressive voters away from the Democrats. Greenwald’s strategy then included Libertarian support for Citizens United, Bradley Manning, and the Tea Party, as well as attacks on Obama, in the hopes that the Democrats would lose still more seats in 2012


... Paul went on to defend, as he often does, the WikiLeaks leaker Bradley Manning, comparing him to "Daniel Ellsberg, who told us the truth about Vietnam." He suggested, again, that Julian Assange is being railroaded on false charges ...

The End of Ron Paul and His Selective Patriots
By John H. Richardson at 1:02AM
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/ron-paul-tampa-speech-12091867

... “Let me tell you, Bradley Manning didn’t kill anybody,” the Texas congressman declared at around minute 45, speaking of a “soft spot” in his heart for whistleblowers. “Bradley Manning hasn’t caused the death of anybody. And what he has exposed—he is the equivalent of Daniel Ellsberg, who told us the truth about Vietnam!” The crowd exulted. Paul then pivoted to a spirited defense of Julian Assange, chastising the government of Sweden for truckling to alleged American demands that the Aussie be extradited to the U.S. for prosecution ...

Ron Paul Stands for Manning and Assange
By Michael Tracey • August 27, 2012, 7:50 PM
http://news.xydo.com/toolbar/69719254?subject_id=1151

... Almost all cypherpunks were anarchists who regarded the state as the enemy. Most but not all were anarchists of the Right, or in American parlance, libertarians, who supported laissez-faire capitalism ...

The Cypherpunk Revolutionary: Julian Assange
Robert Manne
The Monthly | The Monthly Essays | March 2011
http://www.themonthly.com.au/julian-assange-cypherpunk-revolutionary-robert-manne-3081

... I’m not a big fan of regulation ... WikiLeaks means it’s easier to run a good business and harder to run a bad business, and all CEOs should be encouraged by this ... A perfect market requires perfect information ... So as far as markets are concerned I’m a libertarian ...

An Interview With WikiLeaks' Julian Assange
Andy Greenberg, Forbes Staff
11/29/2010 @ 5:02PM |911,599 views
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2010/11/29/an-interview-with-wikileaks-julian-assange/

... Assange prefers to be called a libertarian ...

Julian Assange gushes to “60 Minutes”
Monday, Jan 31, 2011 06:18 AM EST
By Adam Clark Estes
http://www.salon.com/2011/01/31/assange_60_minutes_video/

... In his first interview since declaring his intention to run for the Senate in the next federal election, Mr Assange said he ''could be described as a libertarian'' ...

Assange: what I'll do in the Senate
March 27, 2012
Philip Dorlin
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/assange-what-ill-do-in-the-senate-20120326-1vupq.html#ixzz1qJWQhL6S

... “There is clearly a significant level of support for Julian Assange which crosses party lines and is more concentrated amongst Greens voters” ... Assange announced plans to run for Australia’s 76-seat Senate in March, vowing to be a libertarian and “fierce defender of free media” were he elected to the upper house ...

WikiLeaks chief has ‘real chance’ of election: poll
Sun, May 20, 2012
AFP, SYDNEY
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2012/05/20/2003533290

Wikileaks Greatest Hits: Climategate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021162614

If there was ever a clear cut case of good versus evil, then surely it is the contest between Julian Assange and most of the world’s governments ...

Raimondo Article: Assange's Last Stand
Submitted by reedr3v on Fri, 07/06/2012 - 12:19
http://www.dailypaul.com/243445/raimondo-article-assanges-last-stand

Glenn Greenwald
http://www.cato-unbound.org/contributors/glenn-greenwald/


... Ron Paul is the only political figure with any sort of a national platform — certainly the only major presidential candidate in either party — who advocates policy views on issues that liberals and progressives have long flamboyantly claimed are both compelling and crucial....

Progressives and the Ron Paul fallacies
The benefits of his candidacy are widely ignored, as are the Democrats' own evils

Saturday, Dec 31, 2011 11:15 AM EST
By Glenn Greenwald
http://www.salon.com/2011/12/31/progressives_and_the_ron_paul_fallacies/

At a talk given the day after the 2010 election — one that was a disaster for Democrats — “progressive” writer and civil liberties lawyer Glenn Greenwald gave a talk at the University of Wisconsin, and expressed the hope that Democrats might suffer the same fate in 2012.  Greenwald’s ... approach to politics that got members of the Young Americans for Liberty — a Paulite Libertarian group that co-sponsored the event — excited ...

Re-rise of the Naderites: Glenn Greenwald’s third party dreamin’ **UPDATE: on Libertarianism
http://blog.reidreport.com/2011/04/re-rise-of-the-naderites-glenn-greenwalds-third-party-dreamin/

37 replies, 4114 views

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Reply Ron Paul, Julian Assange, Glenn Greenwald and the Libertarians’ Electoral Strategy (Original post)
struggle4progress Aug 2012 OP
leveymg Aug 2012 #1
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #2
villager Aug 2012 #3
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #6
woo me with science Aug 2012 #4
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #18
ljm2002 Aug 2012 #22
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #25
ljm2002 Aug 2012 #30
Agnosticsherbet Aug 2012 #5
tama Aug 2012 #7
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #8
tama Aug 2012 #10
Yavin4 Aug 2012 #11
tama Aug 2012 #13
Yavin4 Aug 2012 #19
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #12
tama Aug 2012 #9
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #15
ljm2002 Aug 2012 #14
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #16
ljm2002 Aug 2012 #20
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #23
tama Aug 2012 #17
woo me with science Aug 2012 #21
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #24
Puregonzo1188 Aug 2012 #26
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #27
Puregonzo1188 Aug 2012 #28
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #29
tama Aug 2012 #31
struggle4progress Sep 2012 #32
Tarheel_Dem Sep 2012 #35
backscatter712 Sep 2012 #33
struggle4progress Sep 2012 #34
SidDithers Oct 2012 #36
flamingdem Jun 2013 #37

Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 02:18 PM

1. Where's the Ignore button when I finally find someone who needs it? eom

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Response to leveymg (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 02:21 PM

2. How cute!

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 02:22 PM

3. Ergo, *only* believe the Pentagon in these matters!

n/t

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Response to villager (Reply #3)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 02:30 PM

6. I provided a dozen links. Which ones do you think are the Pentagon's?

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #4)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 04:17 PM

18. Since you removed your original accusatory link ("Just a note to PR and Corporate hacks

that post their bullshit on DU - you suck at your jobs") in favor of a similar but more verbose OP, relying heavily on Greenwald, I suppose I should call your attention to the fact that I've already responded to that OP:

Yet another example of Greenwald's now long history as a fuckeddy-faced little liar.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1208534
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021205316#post43

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #18)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 05:02 PM

22. Well just because you've responded...

...doesn't mean your arguments were true.

There are several posts in the thread you link to, that clearly debunk Green's assertions and support Greenwald's assertions.

But whoever is right or wrong in those legalistic discussions, I must say that calling Greenwald a "fuckeddy-faced little liar" does not lend weight to your own arguments, such as they are.

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #22)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 07:58 PM

25. You can continue that discussion in that thread, if you like

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #25)

Wed Aug 29, 2012, 01:05 AM

30. You're too kind. n/t

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 02:28 PM

5. I admire your stand...

Granted, I don't think it will work against the cult of personality around Julian Assange, but people who tilt and windmills and walk through Athens with a lantern looking for one honest man fill an important roll.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 03:01 PM

7. Good article about Assange's political views

 

with conclusion:
Assange better fits the ideal-type of the cyber-anarchist than that of the cyber-libertarian.

http://thesocietypages.org/cyborgology/2011/11/08/julian-assange-cyber-libertarian-or-cyber-anarchist/

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Response to tama (Reply #7)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 03:07 PM

8. So do you think Assange was lying in his interview with Forbes in which he chatters about

how much he loves markets and how he generally opposes regulation?

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #8)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 03:31 PM

10. I love the market

 

and I'm very lefty anarchist-communist. Left-copy and free-ware products (Linux etc etc) are about free market which is free from capitalist coercion and greed, market functioning as gift economy. Much of free market of ganja functions also as gift economy. Wikileaks has been working as free market of gift-economy journalism.

Assange's lifestyle seems to have been very much that of a moneyless bum, depending from free market of gift economy.

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Response to tama (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 03:43 PM

11. Dennis? Is that You?

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #11)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 03:53 PM

13. Care to expand?

 

Unknown pop reference to me.

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Response to tama (Reply #13)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 04:26 PM

19. Monty Python Holy Grail n/t

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Response to tama (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 03:47 PM

12. He might be a moneyless bum, but I rather doubt it. He reportedly picked up £930K ($1.47 million)

for his 2010 book deal and also paid himself $86K in salary from the Wau Holland funds that year (while $1.9 million came into Wau Holland for Wikileaks in that year). That seems to be the only year for which there's any data: the supposedly transparent organization has typically produced no financial records, so we have no idea if there are other cashpots lying around

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 03:19 PM

9. And from one of your links

 

Assange was, then, an absolutist crypto-anarchist but one who leant decidedly to the Left. Mainstream cypherpunks did not defend trade unions or speak negatively of “rampant capitalists” and positively of “human rights activists”. He was an electronic but not an economic libertarian.

http://www.themonthly.com.au/julian-assange-cypherpunk-revolutionary-robert-manne-3081

Your psy-ops attempt is as obvious as always.

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Response to tama (Reply #9)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 04:03 PM

15. If he's a "crypto-anarchist" he should have so identified himself when feeling out a Senate run


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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 03:59 PM

14. Ron Paul was against the bank bailouts...

...and against going to war in Iraq. Me too. In fact, lots of us here at DU shared those positions with Ron Paul. And many of us acknowledge libertarian leanings in some areas. When that test of political leanings comes around every so often, there are many DUers who fall into the "left-libertarian" (lower left) quadrant.

So. This must mean that all of us and our views are discredited because Ron Paul (gasp!) shares the same positions.

That's what you're saying, right?

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #14)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 04:07 PM

16. No, I'm saying crackpots like Ron Paul, Justin Raimondo, and Glenn Greenwald are all pushing

one-and-the-same crackpot theory about Julian Assange because it's part of the current Libertarian political strategy

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #16)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 04:32 PM

20. Well then you're pushing BS...

...but in any case, I stand by my remarks. You are using the standard political smear tactic of saying "See, he agrees with this guy on this issue, therefore he's just like this guy and is part of the same movement".

Which is, simply stated, horseshit.

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #20)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 07:08 PM

23. No. I gave examples of three libertarians, all known for pushing a particular complex of crackpot

ideas about Julian Assange. One of them is politician Paul, who just the other day was spouting this nonsense. And another Raimondo, a paleo-conservative libertarian, who spouts exactly the same nonsense. The third is Glenn Greenwald. None are friends of the Democrat

They come from very different backgrounds, so it is odd to find them all spouting the same crackpot nonsense

Greenwald trained as a lawyer, so he's been taught the important of evidence in a narrative. But he's pushing a crackpot narrative without evidence! A look at Greenwald's history gives a clue: Greenwald's stated objective this electoral cycle is to split progressives away from the Democrats -- and his stated strategy for doing that includes the Wikileaks story

What about Paul? Nothing Paul says in Florida this week is accidental. If Paul is pushing the crackpot theory this week, he's doing it for political reasons too. Since Greenwald is a known speaker in Libertarian circles, having no trouble getting international attention for himself, and had regularly admired Paul in print, it's not wild theorizing to say Paul's campaign advisers have heard of Greenwald and are familiar with his ideas: it's a certainty, because competent high-level campaign staff learn who's out there and what ideas they're pushing. Since the Paul campaign has lost the GOP fight this year, so they must be reaching elsewhere this week. So who exactly is Paul trying to reach by pushing crackpot theories about Assange? An entirely reasonable guess is that Paul's gang is following somewhat along the lines of Greenwald's analysis

Raimondo, of course, is a third-tier player. But he's spouting exactly the same nonsense. Crackpot theories usually don't get repeated everywhere, unless there's some mechanism for promoting message discipline. Greenwald's been pushing this nonsense; the Paul campaign is echoing it; again, a natural guess is that a core group of Libertarians has agreed to push it everywhere

Does that mean everybody who pushes the theory is a Libertarian? Of course not



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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #14)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 04:15 PM

17. First of all

 

he's lying. Hateful prejudice does that to people, makes them behave stupid and dishonest.

So the all too obvious purpose of this post in the flood of character assassination was to associate Assange politically with rw paulite libertarians who are not so "popular" on partisan DU, except when they throw clogs in the Rethug machine.

More careful and impartial study shows that Assange belongs in the same left-libertarian lower left quadrant as most of DUers.

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Response to tama (Reply #17)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 04:38 PM

21. Well said. Yes, it's the Ron Paul faux freakout...again.


The Faux Freakout over Ron Paul
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002154246

The same tired tactic, smear by association, comes up also whenever the President is rightly criticized for his war policies. It does not surprise me that it is trotted out for Assange, especially since the rape apologia accusations have backfired so explosively and been exposed as the despicable and cynical tactic they are.

It shows how desperate the corporate one percent are to spin this story for public consumption.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #21)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 07:53 PM

24. OP begins by noting Paul didn't even get a slot at the GOP convention, then points out

"Libertarians .. in every election .. collect a few tenths of a percent of the vote"

How is that a freak-out over Paul or his Libertarian buddies?

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 08:06 PM

26. Wow talk about guilt by association. Assange also hangs out quite a bit with Zizek.

But I guess the Assange is a communist card is so 1956?

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Response to Puregonzo1188 (Reply #26)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 08:16 PM

27. Why would I care who Assange allegedly associated with? The issue is how some crackpot theories

reproduce themselves so precisely, in the absence of any evidence to support them

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #27)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 10:07 PM

28. What crackpot theory are you referring to?

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Response to Puregonzo1188 (Reply #28)

Tue Aug 28, 2012, 10:18 PM

29. I quote Paul directly in the OP

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #29)

Wed Aug 29, 2012, 02:05 PM

31. good vs evil

 

“the contest between Julian Assange and most of the world’s governments” is “a clear cut case of good versus evil”


That's not AFAIK a direct Paul quote, but I take that is what you refer to by "crack pot theory". From your position which seems to be in that one dimensional approach that world's governments are good so Assange must be evil, or at made look so.

***

I assume that you are aware of Political Compass (or some similar even more professional analysis of political chart and climate), how majority of DUers, OWSers (and perhaps even majority of Americans???) locate on it. And where Obama and Romney are located. If DUers are representative of progressives, they are are located in the opposite corner of Obama (and Romney). It's been pretty obvious pretty long time that progressives or American general public are in terms of issues and actual policies represented by the partisan system. Ever more so clearly with OWS. So for partisan politicos of various backgrounds to smell a large segment of potential support in the lower left corner is not a some crack pot conspiracy, just self evident fact.

OK, what is the real likelihood of lefty progressives making unholy alliance with righty libertarians in near of far future to get through some of the social liberal and anti-militaristic and anti-corruption issues both sides support and feel strongly about? Dunno, don't consider it very likely. But looking at the map of political compass and remembering history of Third Way etc. and having been following these discussions long time, at least it would be something else.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 11:44 PM

32. Greenwald's latest salvo is to denounce "Democrats’ sycophantic cheerleading "

so his stance should be clear to everyone by now

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #32)

Sat Sep 8, 2012, 04:42 AM

35. GG's stance has been clear to me since the election of Barack Hussein Obama.

My stance is that Libertarians are assholes, all half dozen of 'em.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 11:48 PM

33. Another day, another dollar...

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #33)

Sat Sep 8, 2012, 12:12 AM

34. Do you agree with Greenwald about the "Democrats’ sycophantic cheerleading"?

He seems quite predictable to me ...

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 01:36 PM

36. DU rec...nt

Sid

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 04:15 PM

37. rec

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