Camel's eye?

[Cryptoad]

[patrice]

1. Welcome to DU, cryptoad!

Why do you think Mark said that?

I have a few concrete ideas, but I'd like to see yours.

[Cryptoad]

7. first.

supposedly, it is not what Mark said but what Jesus said.... so to answer your question ,, Mark was telling what he remembered of Jesus saying. However , the Teaching of Jesus have many references to material wealth being contrary to following the Teaching of Jesus.

i hope that helps

[rurallib]

2. Welcome Cryptoad - Mitt has $10,000 says that ain't true

[demosincebirth]

3. That's not in his Book. In Ryan's Book, I'm sure he skipped this part, Matt 25:40

[Cryptoad]

8. It is truely ,,,

,,,, hard for me to understand how any Republican can reconcile the Teaching of Jesus with the GOP Doctrines. ........

[msongs]

4. ah, nobody really believes THAT part of the bible, it doesn't hate anybody nt

[cr8tvlde]

5. This was not a parable or figure of speech, so they say, it was a real event

...in theology class they taught us that there was a real pass, somewhere out in the craggy, rocky desert land, where the only way through was a very narrow opening into which the folk had to lead the camels uphill one by one, sometimes having to unload them first. The locals understood the meaning well.

Sounded good to me.

Then, there are The Beatitudes ... the "Blessed are ..." not many Republican talking points there, either.

[Igel]

6. Actually, everybody claims them as talking points.

I've met few "poor in spirit." Perhaps the poor have a slight edge over the wealthy. Perhaps no edge.

What did Jesus mean by "righteous"? Not many of them around, not that Jesus would have recognized as "righteous." Most of those are likely to be Jews.

How many are persecuted because they're Xians?

Mostly people redefine the really important words. Poor is just money--God's obsessed with balance sheets and material possessions, not attitudes. Righteous is doing whatever you personally think is good. Persecuted means that the bariste used 2% instead of skim in your triple caramel double chocolate venti organic milk fair-trade latte--for the second day in a row! It puts the "attitude" in "beattitude." And we all like those with attitude.

Meanwhile there's Mark. It's hard for the rich to get into the kingdom of heaven. They like their stuff. The disciples "got it." It wasn't just "rich". It was love of stuff. Unless you're fine with giving away all your stuff and income, you're attached to them--especially if the Christ calls you to go with him (not something that happens much these days). If "love of stuff" is a problem, pretty much nobody will qualify. Who doesn't like their stuff, whether it's their $100k/month in dividends or their $800/month social security check? Their nice new iPhone 4 and BMW or their 8-year-old Kyocera and their 15-year-old clunker? Fortunately, "with God all things are possible." Doesn't matter much if you believe it or not. Just a naive reading of the text and not just the proof-text gets you this.

[Cryptoad]

10. I too,,,,

,,, have heard many different explanations on the "Eye of The Needle" like you stated you were taught. Even that the Eye of the Needle was one of the Gates of Jerusalem which is totally false. I figure as the Christians evolved there became a very real need to preach that Jesus really didn't mean what he said....!

[grantcart]

9. It is not a symbolic metaphor. It is a physical one.

here is the most likely "eye of the needle" that they were referring to



It meant that the richer a person has the wider the load on the camel. In today's parlance "it is easier for a bicyclist to go through the eye of a needle than a Winnebago".

[Cryptoad]

11. and ,,,

you base this interpretation of what? you really believe that Mark(or more likely Paul) was unable to describe a physical metaphor in clearer terms....

[grantcart]

12. It was clear to the people of the day. It was common useage and is not unique to the New Testament.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_a_needle

what does this picture (courtesy of trip advisor) remind you of

<a href="http://www.tripadvisor.ie/LocationPhotos-g211861-Dingle_Dingle_Peninsula_County_Kerry.html"><img alt="Dingle Pictures" src=""/></a><br/>This photo of <a href="http://www.tripadvisor.ie/Tourism-g211861-Dingle_Dingle_Peninsula_County_Kerry-Vacations.html">Dingle</a> is courtesy of TripAdvisor

It was a comon metaphor for existing physical structures that remind people of the eye of a needle.

It still is.

http://www.satelliteviews.net/cgi-bin/g.cgi?fid=1597048&state=WY&ftype=arch

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PdvLUe8Xx38/T_ZGAUb5NaI/AAAAAAAAA3A/Y90qTWp9kO8/s1600/eye+needle+22+copy.jpg

So it was a common metaphor at the time and would have been easy for everyone to understand, just like when John said that Jesus is a door or a road they had no problem understanding the point.

And I base my understanding that it was definitely Mark and not Paul by studying Koine Greek and doing Masters work at Princeton Theological Seminary where even the first year Seminarian learns the difference between the highly economical, fast paced Mark and the more educated, philosophical Paul.