Clinton's Decline, Clintonista Excuses

[JackRiddler]

As Clinton's support continues to tank in the New Hampshire polls, one story I just saw suggests the context is that "her use of a personal email server during her tenure as secretary of state continues to dominate the headlines."

Bullshit. That noise may be dominating headlines -- along with the professional wrestling performer, Donald Trump -- but it is not remotely the reason why potential primary voters are not supporting the Democrat from Wall Street.

At this point, registered Democrats with a preference are still a relatively well-informed group with high political motivation. They don't care about the constructed e-mail scandal any more than they did about "Benghazi." It's also going to play no role in a general election, with or without Clinton as nominee. In fact, the Republican propaganda alienates people all the more that it talks up this kind of shit.

Clinton's problem against Sanders is that she offers NOTHING. Her campaign is little more than a fake, vague, pandering marketing-image masking the neoliberal legacy and loyalty to the interests of the corporations and 0.1%. After 23 years people can seen right through that shit, too.

[DanTex]

1. Bernie's looking good to become president of New Hampshire.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Gotta start somewhere.

And Bernie is off to a very good start indeed.

[JackRiddler]

3. It's in the Union, I hear.

[DanTex]

7. You're implying that there are other states besides New Hampshire. No, there's just one!

Now go home and do 10 Hail Bernies, and maybe your soul will be spared...

[MohRokTah]

8. You are forgetting the most important state of all in the primaries.

Vermont.

It is by far the single most important state for determining who the Democratic nominee for the presidency will be.

[DanTex]

11. I stand corrected. No wonder they call it the "United States." Because there are two of them!

And yeah, Vermont has predicted the outcome of the last 193 presidential elections, after all. How could I have forgotten?

[karynnj]

139. and possibly Iowa, the neighboring state to HRC's birth state

You are also overlooking that in most races if someone wins Iowa they get a certain amount of momentum elsewhere. If they win Iowa and NH, that is amplified.

Now every election is different. There have not been enough modern elections to use history as a guide. It is very clear that HRC has an enormous amount of support from the powers that be in the party and she dominates in money raised. As to media, while there is much that is negative, there has also been a huge amount of support -- that goes back to 1992 in some cases.

Look at the coverage of her first year as Secretary of State vs Kerry's. The first burst of articles were all that she was a super star, whose visits were almost equivalent to that of a head of state. The earliest for Kerry, all suggested that he could never live up to her. Even as he quickly accomplished some diplomatic successes, still did not give him the praise they routinely gave HRC.

With the combination of money, name recognition, Bill Clinton, the Democratic power base and better media than Bernie, it is a surprise that she is not doing any better than she has.

Oh - as to coverage of the email story - when the FBI, the Inspector Generals of State and the Intelligence community are all investigating -- you can't say it all a media plot or the GOP. There is a reason that Kerry's State Department reassigned 50 people to augment the department handling FOIAs, that suggests that she left a mess. The State Department does not have infinite resources. Assigning these people means that there are 50 less people who can be assigned to other State Department activities.

[karynnj]

29. Does that mean Hillary, born and raised in Illinois needs to win by 10 in Iowa?

[mhatrw]

123. or it will be a complete disaster!

[ish of the hammer]

33. setting up some goalposts are we?

[DanTex]

35. Exactly! The goalposts are in NH, the rest of the country doesn't matter...

[karynnj]

138. I think if that is true, then HRC needs to win the state next to her Illinois birthplace and

where she was raised by the same 10. aka Iowa

[pangaia]

41. NH and VT are just about polar opposites.

Not that I have any idea what that means in a primary election.

[JackRiddler]

49. Excellent! I love this!

Now this is how you massage the expectations, when you expect to lose:

"If he wins by less than ten points, it's a major loss."

Ha ha!

Can't say it doesn't match the quality of the double-talk and phony punditry associated with the neoliberal political establishment that Clinton exemplifies.

A lot of people are sick of this shit, and that's why Clinton's H-Arrow Club may well be claiming that 10-point losses are wins all the way to her concession speech.

[MohRokTah]

55. McCain barely beat Romney there in 2008

That was touted as a MAJOR victory.

Kerry beat Dean by 12 points in 2004.

That was touted as "meets expectations".

I won't play YOUR game by YOUR rules.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

60. I feel your pain, even if you don't right now.

[StoneCarver]

71. Ouch!

That's a little harsh. Hillary people seem to want to put a garbage can on their head and hit it with sticks -and say "make it all go away".
Stonecarver

[ChairmanAgnostic]

73. Heh.

Are you hillarians so totally hollow, unfulfilled, and barren of ideas and factual responses? Or does the downward trend of a fatally flawed "inevitable" candidate hurt so much that you refuse to accept the (ahem) inevitable result?

[enid602]

101. bernir supporters

How many actual Bernie supporters have you come acros other than those here on 'BU?' At the gym, near the water cooler etc. I live in AZ, and have met none. Not one. This whole thing smells fishy.

[Tommymac]

102. In Pittsburgh I've met hundreds and hundreds. Canvasing you know. Talked to them actually.

On the streets.

In bars.

In restaurants.

At the mall.

At Town Festivals.

In the Barber shop in an minority community.

At an AA meeting.

At a Pirates Game.

At a Pitt Football game.

At the pizza shop.

At the Democratic Committee's Booth on a Friday night street festival.

At the Pittsburgh Labor DAy Parade.

At family gatherings.

At a Church function. A conservatiuve Church.

Oh...and in the Fish Market in the Strip District.

[TM99]

121. I am also in Arizona

and I have met hundreds.

Of course, I am a supporter. I have bumper stickers. I am around young college and graduate students. I am around a lot of PoC in my community. I move in 'progressive circles'. We talk about the real issues affecting us. We talk about politics in sane ways....unlike the way it can get here on DU!

[Motown_Johnny]

125. I'm seeing Bernie Bumper stickers on vehicles in and around Detroit.

No Hillary ones yet. But then I suppose Detroit is one of those "richer, whiter Volvo driving" communities that Hillary supporters keep telling us about.

For the sarcasm impaired ------->

[artislife]

133. AZ, says it all

Maybe your gated communities are not really the people who worry about the economic future. If they are golfers, the give no sh*ts about the environment in a desert state.

[EEO]

79. That's right. Cling to your corporation-sponsored Democrat and keep the con game rolling.

[MohRokTah]

81. Sanders is running the only con game in these primaries. eom

[EEO]

85. How's that? Prove you are more than a troll.

[MohRokTah]

88. I refuse to play YOUR game by YOUR rules. eom

[EEO]

94. Verdict: Troll. nrn

[MohRokTah]

96. VERDICT:

[Tommymac]

104. I'm so sorry.

[Tommymac]

112. So sorry you feel that way.

[Ed Suspicious]

147. I don't know yet about the election, but you have clearly lost

your composure in this thread. Maybe you might consider stepping away for a few in order to collect yourself.

[Jesus Malverde]

161. Obvious is obvious

[Electric Monk]

114. Jury results (1-6)

On Sat Sep 26, 2015, 09:58 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

How's that? Prove you are more than a troll.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=626256

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Rude and over the top personal attack that adds nothing to the discussion at hand.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Sep 26, 2015, 10:07 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh please.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Truth defense: MohRokTah *IS* a troll, and has been previously banned multiple times; aliases include Pretzel_Warrior and functioning_cog.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: oh good grief alerter...give it a rest already....
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's true. Moh has been banned many times and keeps coming back. More avatars than Vishnu....
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is a call-out of a long-established DUer and there is no place for that here. HIDE.

[LiberalArkie]

144. This one is a DUZY of a result... More avatars than Vishnu

[tblue37]

160. How can you label the most honest politician in America a con man? That is

what swiftboating is: taking an opponent's greatest strength and using it to attack him. Kerry was a war hero, so they attacked his war record.

Bernie's honesty and trustworthiness is acknowledged even by Dems who oppose him and even by Repubs in the House and Senate, no matter how far to the right of him they are.

So now you accuse him of being a con artist? Really?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

84. ROFL!

[thesquanderer]

57. Seems like the goal posts keep moving.

First the prospect of even coming close was seen as a kind of victory for BS; then when it looked like he might come close, all that really mattered was winning; now he has to win by at least 10 points?

[Calista241]

106. yeah, cause New York is just too far away for her to have any influence.

[MohRokTah]

110. HA

You really don't know how to read polls, do you?

[Scootaloo]

119. I love how states "don't count" when Bernie's in the lead.

It's adorable, in fact.

[cui bono]

24. When did New Hampshire secede?

So they're still a democracy?

Wow, I'm so behind with the news!

[leftofcool]

75. Too bad NH has only 24 delegates.

How many does Vermont have< Hopefully at least 6 so Bernie could get an even 30 total.

[in_cog_ni_to]

136. What's that American Proverb again??? Hmmm-

As goes New Hampshire, so goes the nation

Go Bernie!

[JDPriestly]

145. I campaigned for Bernie yesterday. Just offered information to random people.

Many random people. Not a particularly political or liberal crowd.

The response when I mentioned Bernie was amazingly positive. Only two people said they didn't like him. One young girl opposed abortion saying she is adopted, and the other said he didn't like the fact that Bernie is a socialist. I said to the first that I think we can agree that no woman should have an abortion because she thinks she cannot afford to have or raise her child. And to the second I pointed out that all of Bernie's proposals are very popular with the American people.

Other than that, the response was extremely positive especially among young people.

So, Bernie is looking good to be the president of America.

I did not hear anything about Hillary from any of the people I spoke to. It's like she doesn't exist out there.

And young people are very, very excited about Hillary.

[Fawke Em]

156. I think you mean young people are really excited about Bernie.

Not Hillary.

I live in a college town. I never see Hillary stickers - only Bernie.

Saw a couple of Carson one's the other day out on the more conservative side of town.

[ronnykmarshall]

165. DAN!

[url=https://flic.kr/p/yTcRHo][img][/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/yTcRHo]

[Juicy_Bellows]

4. She offers something. What is it?

Oh yeah! Same as it ever was!

Once in a lifetime a candidate like Sanders rolls around - we can go Same As It Ever Was, or we can get on board the Bern Train.

[peacebird]

6. Yep! Feel the Bern!

[Tommymac]

43. Bravo!

[Duval]

47. Yeah!

[hifiguy]

9. The e-mail stuff is very back burner

and Benghazi is complete nonsense.

She's tanking because people are sick to death of the status quo she embodies.

[BlueWaveDem]

13. She's not tanking. She started off high because she was the only one running.

As people's preferred candidates started entering the race, candudate support started to redistribute. She's leading in nearly every state. On the other hand, I think it's good that our candidates do put up a battle on the issues.

[CanadaexPat]

124. She's leading in nearly every state where campaigning has not

started in earnest. So it's all a function of time at this point.

[TwilightGardener]

10. Untrue that she offers nothing. She offers the promise of legal-gray-area conduct,

along with the inevitable related Congressional investigations, plus a parade of smarmy Clinton cronies, for the next four years. Now that's entertainment. Plus, I am aware that her campaign is sending out thank-you boxes full of lady things.

[Juicy_Bellows]

12. Ahh yes, can't forget the Thx Box!

Truly a WTF thing if there ever was one.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. Inside the box, is her campaign both alive and dead?

[Juicy_Bellows]

18. Well, there is this:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

19. Love it!

[Fairgo]

31. Egads!

[demwing]

50. She's Schrodinger's Candidate

Her position on any given controversial issue is considered (according to quantum triangulation politics) to be simultaneously both "for" and "against" said controversial issue, until the candidate is elected and the actual position is observed...

[HooptieWagon]

59. Perfect analysis! Nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

61. Bingo. Schrödinger's candidate - I'll remember that.

Both for and against until you open the box...

[JimDandy]

113. Very apt! n/t

[Ed Suspicious]

149. Lol

[HooptieWagon]

58. Radioactive.

[ish of the hammer]

34. tell me in 6 emoji's

[Juicy_Bellows]

38. Ok, I'll try.

[hifiguy]

14. Not to mention endless kowtowing to the bank$ter$

who are funding her, and an endless parade of them in the Cabinet.

[oasis]

16. "a parade of smarmy Clinton cronies"

With that kind of sentiment, you probably demolished any chance you might have had in serving in Hillary's administration.

[Metric System]

17. Completely ridiculous post. And she's still the front-runner!

[A Simple Game]

30. Damn right she's the front-runner! Just like she was at this time in '07.

It must be hard knowing that the last time she lost to someone too young, too good looking, and too black. And probably this time she is going to lose to someone that is too old, too ugly, and too white.

Do you think maybe it's not the people she's running against that are causing her to lose an insurmountable lead?

on edit: fixed date mistake

[NotHardly]

148. Lacking only the prerequisite dick required in US politics for top offices

... misogyny is alive and well in the US

[A Simple Game]

153. And for some, lacking only the sense to not use politics as the main reason to vote for a war. n/t

[moobu2]

20. Bernie's not a Democrat.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

27. Bernie represents the principles of the Democratic party better than

anyone else who's running. He is running as a Democrat, and has always caucused with the Democrats and has supported many Democrats. Hillary was once a Goldwater girl. At least Bernie never did anything like that - he's always been a progressive.

[leftofcool]

65. No he doesn't.

Ask his peers in Congress why they won't endorse him.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

69. Yes, he does.

Hillary has been endorsed because of the assumption, which now seems a bit premature, of her unchallenged coronation - not to mention the fact that many Congresscritters have been bought and paid for by the same corporate interests that own Hillary.

[StoneCarver]

74. Well said!

Well said, my friend! Nail meet head.
Stonecarver

[MohRokTah]

78. Then you have no idea of what the Democratic PArty stands for, eom.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

83. Been a Democrat since I was first able to vote (for George McGovern).

I have a pretty good idea of the Democratic Party's principles. Which parts of Bernie's platform are not consistent with those principles, pray tell?

Income and wealth inequality?
Getting big money out of politics?
Living wages for everyone?
Doing something to combat climate change?
Striving for racial justice?
A fair and humane immigration policy?
Supporting women's reproductive rights?
Better benefits for veterans?
Fighting the drug companies for reasonable drug prices?
Reforming Wall Street?
No war in the Mideast or Iran?

How are these specific issues that Sanders is addressing in his campaign not representative of the values and principles of the Democratic Party? They sure look like what Democrats have been supporting for as long as I've been one.

[MohRokTah]

92. I ain't buyin' what you're tryin' to sell me. eom

[Tommymac]

105. Ahhh...

[Tommymac]

115. Such negative angst. Take care - It can really ruin your digestion.

Hope you have a better day soon. Byebye.

[davidpdx]

120. The results..........

Can't post this anywhere else, so I'll drop it here. I'm making it publicly available for transparency reasons when the usual suspects will come along and say it was a jury swarm.

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Sun Sep 27, 2015, 02:34 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Take your socialist fairy dust selling unicorn promising con man and leave me alone. eom
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=626335

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Pretzel Warrior/Functioning Cog/NJMaverick/etc is up to his usual divisiveness again. DU deserves better than this.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Sep 27, 2015, 02:44 AM, and the Jury voted 6-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I have no idea is all the names are this person but reading through the thread this is trollish behavior not constructive criticism or even a hey my pick is better because behavior. Just rude and disruptive. We need dialog
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Divisiveness has no place on DU. Stop being rude.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Enough.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[C Moon]

142. :D

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

118. Are you trying to claim that I'm not actually a Democrat,

or that Sanders' platform isn't consistent with what Democrats believe?

If it isn't, how 'bout you tell me which of those items Hillary disagrees with? Show me Hillary is a real Democrat.

[cascadiance]

154. The Clintons have worked with the Koch Brothers to take over the Democratic Party...

... with the DLC back in the days it was formed with former Koch industry entities part of its leadership.

Bernie Sanders has always stood against the Koch Brothers' influence over politicians.

So, in your mind, it is more important to have a Democratic Party label than to not be influenced by Koch Brothers money? Do you REALLY feel that most Americans feel it is more important to have a party label than to take out money influence from politics?

Maybe so many other members of congress also feel the system is rigged against them by the likes of the Koch Brothers contributions both for candidates to endorse her early and threatening contributing against candidates that endorse him is the reason why there are issues with endorsements, which at this point represent such a rigged and corrupt system (that increasingly a majority of Americans feel is in place), that most people disregard this measure now as not really measuring personal support for candidates, but a means for money to influence the process.

[tblue37]

162. Because many are also beholden to banksters, and most fear retribution by a powerful

political machine, and many have bought into the defeatist fear that a genuine liberal in the FDR Democratic mold cannot win, especially when he refuses to accept billionaires' money and the strings attached to that money.

[Krytan11c]

32. But is running for the Democratic Presidential Nomination

And doing quite well.

Please try to keep up.

[MohRokTah]

80. Read my sig. eom

[Krytan11c]

86. If Bernie wins the nomination

He will have the d next to his name.

[MohRokTah]

87. He will be a Democrat In Name Only

I will NEVER consider Sanders a Democrat.

[Krytan11c]

130. Question

Do you honestly believe that Bernie doesn't represent Democratic values?

[Jackilope]

141. ROFL. Feinstein in CA is a registered Democratic member.

She is a textbook example of DINO, as is HRC and every Corporate Owned Third Way person.

Sanders is far more in line with Democratic Party foundation and platform. Brush up on your history and Democratic Party platform.

[cascadiance]

155. If FDR were alive today who would he believe is more of a DINO...

One that stands against the "economic royalists" of our day that he so vocally stood up to when he was president, or one that takes money from them and doesn't take them on unless internal pollsters has her feeling it's OK later to comment on an issue (even if she doesn't solidly align herself on issues that would offend the corporate money of today)?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

89. Sanders will be crushed to hear that.

[ish of the hammer]

36. and Clinton is a corporatist !

so there !!!

[pocoloco]

39. Great news!!!

That means there is less chance he will be a wimp-fuck!!

[Tommymac]

44. He will be soon.

[cherokeeprogressive]

68. And it matters not a fucking whit.

[wendylaroux]

97. Oh for the love of Pete!

come on! America did not want her the first time she ran,
do you actually think they will be any more thrilled about her this time? With awesome Bernie running?

Everyone will be like: "Yea!!!!!! Hillary is back!!! We have changed our minds!!! We do want you for president!!!!"

[ibegurpard]

99. Kim Davis was a Democrat

You think about that for just a second.

[Alittleliberal]

116. YES HE IS

I can't believe this is still being stated. Democratic politicians in Vermont are Democrats because they ran on and won on a Democratic ticket. Bernie is running on the Democratic ticket so by definition IS a Democrat. I'm not sure what is to complicated about this but please stop posting garbage like this.

[artislife]

134. And if we hold FDR as a standard, neither is H. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. I do wonder how those who harbor such animus for Madame Secretary can possibly...

I do wonder how those who harbor such animus for Madame Secretary can possibly walk it back when she becomes the nominee.

Cue the "it's not personal" crowd...

It reminds me of the paradox of The Godfather trilogy. The more the Corleones argued it was business and not personal the more apparent how personal it was. Oh, spare me the lectures I am comparing certain folks to the Corleones. I am just observing a phenomenon.

[Android3.14]

25. Please explain how it is "personal"

I've never actually met the candidates. If disapproving of her vote for the Iraq War, PATRIOT Act, corporate kowtowing, and the way she is constantly "evolving" (snort!) is personal, I'd enjoy hearing how.

[Tommymac]

45. No animus here. I disagree with her stance on the issues.

I thinks she has a wooden personality and would not be as good a President As Bernie would. She does not inspire imho. I think she is in the pockets of Big Money. I think she would be a lightening rod for RW haters just like her husband was.

But she is ok as a person. I'd hug her.

[Jim Lane]

76. Because I oppose her for the nomination, I'm logically required not to vote for her in the general?

I don't understand why you (and, to be fair, others) have such a problem with this.

About current candidates, from my point of view:

* O'Malley and Sanders -- Neither is perfect, but both are largely in accord with my views.
* Clinton -- I have significant areas of agreement and significant areas of disagreement. In the Oval Office, she would be worse than either O'Malley or Sanders.
* Republicans -- Vary from batshit-crazy to merely-pretending-to-be-batshit-crazy, but every single one of them would be far worse than Clinton.

I hope that explains why I can hope that Clinton isn't our nominee but be resigned to voting for her in November if she is.

I won't argue with your Godfather analogy because I'm one of the 17 living adult Americans who haven't seen any of the movies. I'll just venture the suggestion that such analogies aren't all that helpful when applied to a situation with as much complexity and nuance as politics. "Clinton bad" and "Clinton good" are both wholly inadequate to summarize my opinions.

[snort]

98. Not only a reasonable stance

but one that I am sure is shared by the majority of informed Democrats, irregardless of their preferred nominee.

[deutsey]

143. You articulate well how I see it

And as someone who loves the first two Godfather movies, you're right: the analogy doesn't really work here, imo.

[Fawke Em]

158. And I thought I was alone.

I've never seen any of those movies, either, and don't feel like I'm missing anything.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

132. I'm not walking it back, and I'm not voting for her, no matter what.

But if she does get the nomination, I'll shut up on DU about it. Does that work for you?

[Android3.14]

22. Damn right

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. It's not what she offers but what she can pay for that she's counting on.

[jalan48]

26. Hillary offers to work more effectively with Wall Street.

Wall St. holds the solutions to our economic and societal problems such as poverty and racism. Wall St. has a strong track record when it comes to addressing the needs of the poor and middle class. Trust them.

[Tommymac]

46. I trusted them with my 401k in 2007.

[jalan48]

53. Yes, I remember something about a minor hiccup in 2008.

But hey, no one's perfect. They promise to do better in the future.

[snort]

100. They did.

[questionseverything]

131. you forgot the joke thingy

if "trusting ws" is the new meme....get back to work

[jalan48]

151. What? You mean the big banks don't care about poverty?

I'm flabbergasted!

[Indepatriot]

28. ..."the Democrat from Wall Street"........KABOOM!

that, and the fact that her campaign seems to be run by squad of lazy, clueless cheerleaders might just have a little something to do with it......oh, and the fact that she's a lousy "retail" politician. She SHOULD HAVE wiped the floor with Obama in 08'.

[McCamy Taylor]

40. "Clintonista" is a word with a past---mostly a Freeper past.

[leftofcool]

66. Well, ya know freeper is as freeper does.

[Logical]

146. Ahh, whining, how adorable! nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

72. Um, yeah.

http://www.amazon.com/Clintonista-A-White-House-Memoir/dp/1439220034

[JackRiddler]

95. Thanks.

That's quite the Bern you put on that nonsense.

[MohRokTah]

103. I have felt the Bern

The doctor cured it with an ampicillin prescription.

[JackRiddler]

91. So is "the."

Come to think of it, so is "is." They use that word so much they can even spell it.

But wait, no, you got me, of course. The only way I could possibly be critical or ironic about Her Royal Clinton is if I'm actually a paid Rovian troll! Clowns to the left of her, jokers to the right. (I hear there is some land to the right of her!) Everyone is just hating on Clinton irrationally because they're working for Bush (another relic of the age that is ending). There's no actual politics involved. Of course.

[artislife]

135. Anything-bot is also a Freeper past

Like Obamabot, Berniebot is the same meme.

Fairy dust is like magical Negro.

Got it?!

[Ed Suspicious]

152. I use Hillarian now. Mostly because I find it equal parts accurate and hillarious.

[Populist_Prole]

42. Wither corporatism

....And that's a good thing.

[NonMetro]

48. HRC Is Setting A Bad Precedent?

Like the Bush family. I've heard that Chelsea is considering a run for president someday, too. It smacks of oligarchy. We may not see it, but think of how this must look to people in other parts if the world: the former presidents wife now wants the office? The former presidents brother now wants the office?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

51. Many think that she can't win the general

I'm surprised that she is running. I like her but I am worried that the GOP will Swiftboat worse than with Kerry.

[AuntPatsy]

52. Wouldn't it be more informative to extoll the virtues of your candidate?

[orpupilofnature57]

54. Always running From what she wants to attain, Responsibility .

[JoePhilly]

56. It will be funny when she wins the nomination.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

64. "When"? Don't count your chickens yet. A lot can happen between now and then....

[leftofcool]

67. Yep, Bernie gone by March 1

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

70. We'll see. I've been around long enough to know better than

to make predictions about elections. I will say, however, that a similar prediction was made about the Obama campaign eight years ago. He was supposed to be gone by March 1, too; Hillary was going to clean his clock. She didn't.

[SoapBox]

62. Totally agree.

She offers nothing as she's been virtually nonexistent...with her private fundraisers (money grubbing) and her invitation only "conversations".

And when she steps in front of those camera in the (DWS rigged debates) debates...she's gonna plummet down even more.

[sabrina 1]

77. Pretending it's the email thing is a way to distract from the real reasons. I support the candidate

who has a consistently excellent record on the issues over his entire political career. That is the ONLY reason why HE is gaining on the front runner.

But to say that would mean drawing attention the issues on which she seems to constantly have to change her opinions.

This country needs leadership by people who have good judgement and the foresight to see the consequences of bad judgement. Bernie possesses both of those qualifications.

[JGug1]

82. Clinton's Campaign

One of the things that I have generally liked about liberal blogs is that they tended to be informative, not bullshit. This is bullshit. Sanders is an interesting candidate. I could be wrong when I say he won't win. If he does, I think he will win the election. He will have my vote, for sure. HOWEVER, Hillary Clinton is by far and away, the most experienced candidate. PERIOD. She is more experienced than Bernie. She had those eight years in the White House with Bill. Then she was a successful Senator from NY, generally having been respected by both sides of the isle. THEN, she was Secretary of State. What candidate comes close to that? Further, she is very, very bright. To say her campaign offers nothing is to act like a wingnut. Congratulations.
She has come out against Keystone. That is very big. She is now suggesting a plan to make buying drugs from Canada legal. That too, is huge. The rest will fall into place. The election is more than a year away. I think we may see some of her intelligence when she testifies before the congress. It should be interesting.
I'll take either of them, personally but even though I like Bernie, I hope Hillary wins.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

90. Experience is important.

Let's say you could choose between someone who had had served 6 years in a state legislature, 10 years in the U.S. House of Representatives, 4 years as ambassador to a major power, 10 years in the Senate, 4 years as Secretary of State, and 4 years as Ambassador to England, and was offered but declined an appointment to the Supreme Court; or someone whose experience, besides being a lawyer in private practice, consisted only of 8 years in a state legislature and one term in the U.S. House. You'd pick the first one, right? But that was the resume of James Buchanan, whom most historians consider to be one of our worst presidents. The second was Abraham Lincoln.

Experience is important but it's not everything.

[JackRiddler]

93. Experience is a canard.

We vote for factions, movements, tendencies, politics, not simply for whoever's representing them (though it matters how much experience they have at lying, of course). In practice, anyway, though obviously many if not most place a lot of importance on personality bullshit without knowing the politics.

Experience at what? Doing what? Serving the money, serving the power, managing the wars?

There are of course Republicans with even more experience than Clinton - not that any of those will win their nomination, but just saying. The most "experienced" candidate ever in modern times was surely the CIA war criminal, George Bush Sr.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

117. Exactly my point. Experience is nice, maybe, depending

on what it's in. Other things matter at least as much. Take this guy:

He began his political career as an intern for a Congressman, eventually working his way into the White House during the two administrations, where he later served as the White House Chief of Staff. Later he was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives and was reelected five times, briefly serving as House Minority Whip. He eventually became Secretary of Defense, holding the position for four years. While he was out of office the was the CEO of a major multinational corporation. Later he was chosen as his party's nominee's running mate, and served as Vice President for eight years.

A stellar resume, wouldn't you say? That's Dick Cheney. All that experience and he's still an evil SOB who shouldn't ever have been allowed to hold any public office.

[mhatrw]

122. "I will try to tack only slightly to the right of Obama" is not a platform.

At least not a winning one.

[CanadaexPat]

126. The 90's were over a long time ago.

Everyone knows that but Hillary.

[Kilgore]

127. Don't t underestimate Hillary

She is the Borg candidate. The collective will simply reprogram her if the present version is not working.

[JackRiddler]

129. Not at all.

I'm just pointing to why it is that many people reject this candidate. It's not the e-mails, it's the gaping absence of anything to support. Her marketers scramble daily to find things that lend substance, depending on what the public mood is perceived to be. Beneath that, the unbroken record of service to neoliberalism, to corporate interest, and to the neocon war drives of whatever moment.

I am not so optimistic about the outcome. The money and the media narrative are behind her. Even the overblown scandals make her important. As if there aren't any real stories happening right now, as if the planet's not burning, let's keep talking about the personalities and small-time bullshit about the Clintons like we have for 23 years.

And yes a "Borg" logic applies, so that as we see any excuse is advanced for her. The blah-blah is tenacious: She's unfairly attacked. You're falling for propaganda against her. You secretly hate her, that's your only motivation. You are secretly a Republican agent. She's the most or only viable, electable, experienced etc. Deal with it, with us or against us, with her or with the Republicans, etc. etc. It keeps reconstituting itself.

Did I mention the money?

[TBF]

128. +100000 ... nailed it. K&R nt

[colsohlibgal]

137. Resistance May Not Be Futile

I suppose more than a few women just want to vote for a woman. I would think they would want a more progressive one.

Bernie just meshes with me politically, and by a lot.

[whereisjustice]

140. Many in the tech community sure as hell have watched her handling of her email problem

and realize the idiocy of her excuses. As corporations monitor and control everything we do and say, even on our personal time, her hypocrisy and tone deaf handling of this VERY important issue (*) is staggering.

Hillary has become a workplace meme. Hardly a day goes by without a joke about her excuses and double standards. It just adds up to a history of deception and misdirection at our expense. And th issue transcends those who identify as Democrats, Republicans and Independents.

The Democratic Party would do well to disassociate itself from the Clintons.

The Hillary Party is really a new political party that services the wealthy (who enjoy a few civil benefits shared with the lower classes) under the absurd notion that doing so ensures magical economic benefits will trickle down to the rest of society.

"You mean wipe it with a cloth?"

Yeah we do - clean up on aisle Hillary.


(*) internet security, supporting a claim to her personal privacy while voting for government surveillance for everyone else, etc.

[AgingAmerican]

150. I just had someone claim they were caught because they were, "Hunted"

Apparently this website came to light because of Sanders supporters stalking and 'hunting' those who were in forced time outs lol. In their vast internet 'hunt' they stumbled across these Hill supporters wallowing in racism lol.

This person went on and on and on how evil these Sanders supporters were, hunting down this website!

So I presented him with this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/110716741

Which was answered with Crickets.

[billhicks76]

157. Hillary's Republican Tendencies Catching Up With Her

[ronnykmarshall]

159. Clintonista???

Childish

[leftofcool]

163. And so Rovian.

But, you know Ann Coulter is a hero here now as well as Red States news so maybe Karl is next on the hero list.

[ronnykmarshall]

164. yes I've heard Ann is a new darling.

I'm sure Carly F will be quoted as well. She's such a darling!