2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhy Bernie Sanders Is Best on Women's Issues
Heather Gautney
Women's issues are taking center stage in the lead-up to 2016. As they should: The conservative war on women's health and reproductive rights has raged on for far too long. And in all measures of social and political inequality, we remain what number-crunchers coolly term "disproportionately affected."
Many people believe that electing a woman president will help. I'm not so sure. Does breaking glass ceilings constitute a real political strategy -- that's capable of improving women's lives? And does voting one's gender really translate to voting one's interest?
Let's consider the issues:
Bernie Sanders has consistently fought against Republican attacks on reproductive rights. If elected president, he would increase funding for Planned Parenthood. He's vowed to only nominate Supreme Court justices who uphold Roe v. Wade, and plans to expand women's health programs, and access to safe and legal abortions. Clinton has also been out front on reproductive rights, but her historic refrain that abortion be "safe, legal, and rare" has only served to stigmatize it and justify conservative efforts to impose legal restrictions.
On the issue of families, Sanders has often pointed out that of 178 countries worldwide, the U.S. is one of three that does not provide new mothers with paid leave. He argues for a Scandinavia-like model, where family leave is part of a robust system of social safety nets. As president, he would provide workers with up 12 weeks of family and medical leave, funded with a small payroll contribution -- so that parents can bond with their newborns, and family members care for sick relatives. He would also free millions of women from the struggle to secure childcare by making high-quality services and pre-K available to all Americans, regardless of income.
(snip)
Even with decent wages, however, many Americans have spiraled into financial ruin from excessive medical costs. Women are especially afflicted, as we are less likely than men to be insured, and our healthcare expenses tend to be higher. While Clinton says she'll go with "what works" in Obamacare, Sanders' Medicare for All will help reduce out of pocket costs for lower income Americans. Along with expanded retirement benefits, universal healthcare can help eradicate these ruinous trends -- which are especially pronounced for elderly women, half of whom would sink into poverty without their Social Security checks.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/heather-gautney/bernie-sanders-womens-issues_b_8049572.html
There is much more on the link.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Are you gonna stick with that illogical statement?
Just look at some of the dumb comments men have made on women's issues over the years. Mostly by republicans, but yeah, I think women understand it better simply by virtue of living it
okasha
(11,573 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)is named "Heather" or didn't you?
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)LWolf
(46,179 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I mean, I guess there could be. The woman who played Mama Walton is named, "Michael," so I suppose it's possible.
But, if you mean the OP, yeah... he's a man, posting an opinion piece written by a woman.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)A big, hairy, man-sized volvo.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Just look at Michele Bachmann and Carly Fiorina.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)I apologize.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)And just because someone is a woman does not mean she's necessarily more likely than a man to advance women's rights. Even though it's certainly true that no man can know what it's like to be a woman in a patriarchal society such as ours.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I mean, she's certainly a woman.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)as long as they leave me alone. I believe that is Bernie's position.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)But the ones who fight for our rights in addition to that are true feminists.
We shouldn't be throwing them under the bus for having an opinion.
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)Didn't you get the memo?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I just asked my s/o and he confirmed it!
Demeter
(85,373 posts)and for that, you need a politician who is committed. Bernie is and has committed. He wants women's votes.
Hillary waffles, even when it's not a good idea. I fully expect her to throw us women under the bus at the slightest chance it would advance her with her "Family" friends.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)a woman who happens to be highly educated. So please sit there and dismiss her.
Ms. Gautney's CV
Education:
BA, University of Pittsburgh;
MA, St. John's University;
PhD, CUNY, 2006
Publications:
Occupy X: Repossession by OccupationSouth Atlantic Quarterly, 111(3): 597-607.
State Social Text 100: 242-5.
Between Anarchism and Autonomist Marxism. WorkingUSA: Journal of Labor and Society, 12: 467-487.
The Imperial Coin (with Akim Reinhardt) Peace and Change 35(1): 146-163.
Courses Taught:
Social Movements; Transnational Social Movements; Sociological Theory; Inequality in America; Political Sociology on Film; International Sociology; Introduction to Sociology
Selected Publications (Books):
Protest and Organization in the Alternative Globalization Era: NGOs, Anti-Authoritarian Movements, and Political Parties (2nd Edition). New York: Palgrave Macmillan.
Democracy, States, and the Struggle for Global Justice. New York: Routledge.
Implicating Empire: Globalization and Resistance in the 21st Century World Order. New York: Basic Books.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)that "safe, legal and RARE" shit is pandering to the religious zealots. It's none of her or anyone else's business if/when/how many abortions a woman has.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... abortion being "safe, legal and rare" is the fact that if sex education and affordable birth control were more easily accessible, the need for abortion would be rare.
It has nothing to do with "if, when, how many abortions a woman has". Nor does it have anything to do with "pandering to religious zealots" - who are the ones opposing sex-ed and BC - which is what LEADS to abortions being sought by many women who would not be pregnant in the first place if they'd had that access to begin with.
Saying that "abortion should be rare" is the same as saying "illiteracy should be rare", "homelessness should be rare", or "cases of measles should be rare" - or do you consider those statements to be "pandering" as well?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)in keeping it real
much better to bash a woman that has stood up for women and girls, around the world, for her lifetime, than to acknowledge a simple truth.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... the depth of ignorance behind thinking that the phrase "abortion should be rare" means they should be "rare" among women wanting them as opposed to being "rare" because - if affordable BC and comprehensive sex-ed were readily available - there would be less need for them.
I believe that such ignorance should be rare - but then I'd just be "pandering" to people with intelligence.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)so i just walked from it all
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... who are not the least bit interested in facts - and they make that extremely obvious.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)boggles the mind.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... what people suggest here, or even flat-out state.
In the end, HRC will be the next POTUS. And all the "suggesting" and "stating" on DU will not change that fact.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)okasha
(11,573 posts)Except in rare cases of allergy or sensitivity, an oral or injectable medication is to be preferred to an invasive surgical procedure.
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Illiteracy, homelessness, and measles are bad, period.
Abortion depends on the individual circumstances. And I wouldn't want anyone else deciding for me. Or even offering an opinion unless I asked.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)"Saying that "abortion should be rare" is the same as saying "illiteracy should be rare", "homelessness should be rare", or "cases of measles should be rare" - or do you consider those statements to be "pandering" as well?"
Um, that's what I was replying to.
Yeah, I'd like everyone to have 100% effective birth control.
But I still think the "rare" thing is a dog whistle.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Would you say that's relevant to the discussion?
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Keep your nose out of my body.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I house sat for a friend whose sister had to travel to another state for a late term abortion.
Difficult decision, agonizing pain, having to lie to her friends and coworkers, as if all that wasn't enough she had to sit in a car for two days there and back.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)And their reasons are none of anybody else's business.
Florencenj2point0
(435 posts)there is no legal late term abortion in this country unless the fetus is already dead or will die at birth or has no brain function beyond the brain stem. If a fetus is viable and threatens the mother's life or heath no woman in her right mind would get a late term abortion. She would have a c-section and pray like hell that the baby survives. No women gets to the point of viability and decides to get an abortion.
Supporting Bernie doesn't give you the right to lie about HRC.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Q: Are there circumstances when the government should limit choice?
LAZIO: I had a pro-choice record in the House, and I believe in a womans right to choose. I support a ban on partial-birth abortions. Senator Moynihan called it infanticide. Even former mayor Ed Koch agreed that this was too extreme a procedure. This is an area where I disagree with my opponent. My opponent opposes a ban on partial-birth abortions.
CLINTON: My opponent is wrong. I have said many times that I can support a ban on late-term abortions, including partial-birth abortions, so long as the health and life of the mother is protected. Ive met women who faced this heart-wrenching decision toward the end of a pregnancy. Of course its a horrible procedure. No one would argue with that. But if your life is at stake, if your health is at stake, if the potential for having any more children is at stake, this must be a womans choice.
Source: Senate debate in Manhattan , Oct 8, 2000
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Abortion.htm
Supporting Hillary doesn't give you the right to lie about my posts.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... exactly what to do with what I've posted?
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Uh, well, the things I mentioned that came directly out of your post I was replying to. When some else questioned the same thing, I put a direct quote from the post I was originally replying to.
I basically said I thought equating the conditions you mentioned with abortion was a false equivalency, and that the "rare" part with regard to abortion was a dog whistle.
That's three times saying basically the same thing, by request. If that doesn't do it for you, I give up
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)The fact that they are bad, period has nothing to do with what I said. The topic was the phrase "abortion should be safe, legal, and rare". My saying that illiteracy, homelessness and measles should also be rare has nothing to do with "a false equivalency" as I was not equating them.
"Abortion depends on the individual circumstances. And I wouldn't want anyone else deciding for me. Or even offering an opinion unless I asked."
Again, what does this have to do with abortion being "safe, legal and rare" - as none of those three things involve anyone else deciding for you, or offering their opinion?
Abortions should be safe, legal and rare - and they would be rare if women had access to easy, affordable contraception and sex education - ya know, those things that prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place making an abortion unnecessary.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Not in the sense of seeing your point. I don't. I responded to what you said. I give up on convincing you of that. Bye.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I am all for "rare" in principle, but it's still sticking your nose into someone else's business.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Imagine THAT shitstorm!
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Pandering of the cheapest kind. So typical.
IVoteDFL
(417 posts)Women are smart enough to pick the candidate that best represents them. For many of us that is Senator Sanders.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)IVoteDFL
(417 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)on social media. Are you sure that you want to go down that path?
arcane1
(38,613 posts)The practice ended the year Kerry took over as SoS.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)"In 2013, the State Department, which has more than 400,000 likes and was recently most popular in Cairo, said it would stop buying Facebook fans after its inspector general criticized the agency for spending $630,000 to boost the numbers.
In one case, its fan tally rose from about 10,000 to more than 2.5 million."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/05/buy-facebook-likes_n_4544800.html
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)Facebook started to become a powerhouse in 2007/2008. I'm not sure when the idea of selling fans began. No seeoner than 1007/2008, certainly. If I had to guess, it would be 2009/2010.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)2 million - MORE THAN HALF - of her Twitter followers are fake/inactive.
According to two popular online measuring tools, no more than 44 per cent of her Twitter fan base consists of real people who are active in using the social media platform.
And at least 15 per cent more than 544,000 are completely fake.
StatusPeople.com, the oldest publicly available Twitter-auditing tool, reports that 44 per cent of the former secretary of state's followers are 'good'; 15 per cent are 'fake'; and 41 per cent are 'inactive,' meaning that they never tweet or reply to any tweets.
link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3038621/More-2-MILLION-Hillary-Clinton-s-Twitter-followers-fake-never-tweet.html
sibelian
(7,804 posts)How could you possibly trust anyone who does things like THAT?
FFS
I had no idea baout this
What on EARTH?
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)and I do not invoke the Trickster lightly. How can shit like this not MATTER to people?
There are a significant number of people here who could stand by and watch HRH and Dick Cheney barbeque live kittens and find a way to explain it away ordeny it ever happened. That is a Freeperesque level of denial.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....that Clinton has been aound for a much longer time than Sanders on the national stage, and maybe MOST people who would have "liked" her already had done so long before Sanders declared?
Can people "re-like" on facebook?
That is insane.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)IVoteDFL
(417 posts)It takes you to their facebook pages. Unless you think they make up fake pages with fake names and fake friends which sounds like an awful lot of trouble just to post a comment on HuffPo.
It's not a stretch to believe that an article written by a woman about women's issues and tagged with a bunch of keywords like "Women's Health" "Feminist" "Gender Equality" etc. would be commented on by a lot of women, if not almost exclusively women.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Just because her body is female? Please.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)And as such, my response was directed at the people upthread implying that commentators criticizing her might be "fake" women, because, you know, women all support her.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)IVoteDFL
(417 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)That's what's really upsetting some people around here.
jfern
(5,204 posts)Sanders can certainly be the first woman President
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)sibelian
(7,804 posts)You're fairly good at pretending you didn't read MOST things.
Badum tsh.
sheshe2
(83,655 posts)Tell me you didn't say this.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)i am telling you. right there with Catherine MacKinnon' per one duer
zazen
(2,978 posts)though I've never said Sanders is a feminist hero.
He is, however, a feminist whose policies will do more to improve more women's lives, particularly women of color, than any other candidate in any party.
Economic devastation in this country is worst first on women of color, whose remaining safety net is being pulled out from under them and who are murdered in greater numbers than black men, due to the problem of domestic violence, our nation's number one public health problem that no one on this Board seems to want to talk about. Then, they can't rely on effective law enforcement against domestic violence (not that white women have it much better) because of racist policing, so they're understandably less able to get LEO help to protect them. Economic inequality works in tandem with the PIC to remove black men from their communities for trivial, non-violent offenses, making women of color solely responsible for raising children while jobs dry up and benefits are cut. And their unemployment rates are highest.
Economic and environmental issues are shitty for most of us, but they get it worst, first, then poor black men, then what was formerly the middle class.
Economic, racial, and gender justice. We must have someone working for all three. HRC supports two of those. I'll take Bernie if I have the choice.
Hope you'll come around, Sea. I've appreciated your fierce advocacy for women in other situations, but we disagree mightily here.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)cause... back atcha. lol
thank you for the post.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)than Bill Clinton is pro-black. That much is clear.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)eridani
(51,907 posts)If the if part is false, so is the then part. Although IMO people should really make better use of the icon.
Response to jfern (Reply #9)
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seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Response to seabeyond (Reply #78)
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seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Response to seabeyond (Reply #102)
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seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Response to seabeyond (Reply #109)
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okasha
(11,573 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)huh?
thanks for the info
i do not know anything about hawkeye, just keep hearing he trolls. but i do not remember him as a poster one way or another.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)In a good way.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)trueblue2007
(17,194 posts)or don't you know that?
jfern
(5,204 posts)trueblue2007
(17,194 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)So the conclusion doesn't follow.
I can hear the fists tightening around the pearls now.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Good Gawd! The last thing I need is another man telling what is good for my body or my health care.
I'll take HRC over anyone, any day, on women's issues. She's a world wide advocate, and a staunch supporter and activist on women's issues for decades now.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)around the world, for all of her lifetime. not to mention personal experience of enduring the unlevel playing field to rise into a position of breaking that ole glass ceiling.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)How about backing up that claim?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)Sanders has a decent record as well, but it's not in the same ballpark.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)he has not even dipped a big toe into. at least omalley goes beyond the basics.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)One can argue that Sanders and O'Malley have not had the same opportunity to do so, but HRC has been doing it. For decades. World Wide. There is no candidate I would trust more.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)she played in life, that was always a focus.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)clinton. he just didnt have the guts to speak up when asked. hem hawed.
jfern
(5,204 posts)which was after a majority of Americans supported it.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Are you serious?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Of course, Clinton has since evolved on LGBT rights, as many have. That's wonderful. But the problem is, she only came out in support of marriage equality after it was not politically risky to do so. In fact, by 2013 - the year Clinton announced her full support for marriage equality - Democratic support for same-sex marriage was the norm, not the exception.
On such an important moral issue that affects my life and the lives of thousands of other Americans, making decisions in this manner is rather despicable. Additionally, Clinton's habit of doing what polls deem politically popular is the reason why so many voters find her inauthentic. Now, if Clinton were the only option for the Democratic presidential nomination, I would understand why we should support her despite these flaws.
But she isn't the only option.
Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, the longest-serving Independent in the history of Congress, is also running for the nomination. And unlike Clinton, his record on LGBT rights is historically excellent.
Sanders voted against DOMA, one of the few members of Congress to do so, at a time when such a stance was not politically popular. Four years after DOMA passed, Sanders helped champion Vermont's decision in 2000 to become the first state to legalize same-sex civil unions. This set a national precedent for LGBT equality achieved via legislative means. In 2009, when Vermont became the first state to allow marriage equality through legislative action rather than a court ruling, Sanders expressed his support once again. Truly, Sanders has been a real leader on LGBT rights, even if this leadership isn't recognized in the way that Clinton's current support is.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-novak/on-lgbt-rights-bernie-lea_b_7662682.html
Todays Supreme Court decision was a monumental moment in American history, as it guaranteed the right for gays and lesbians to get married and established full marriage equality.
Many politicians offered their words of support, including President Obama and Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.
Yet it is important to remember that Obama and Clinton both opposed marriage equality as late as early 2012. It is a testament to the work of thousands of activists over decades that the political class was pulled towards supporting equality.
There is however one prominent politician who did not wait so long to call for full gay equality: Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
In a letter he published in the early 1970s, when he was a candidate for governor of Vermont from the Liberty Union Party, Sanders invoked freedom to call for the abolition of all laws related to homosexuality:
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/bernie-sanders-was-full-gay-equality-40-years-ago
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Saturday he has been waiting for the nation to catch up to his support for same-sex marriage.
Sanders remarks come a day after Fridays landmark 5-4 Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage nationwide.
He argued he was well ahead of the historic decision, unlike Hillary Clinton, his main rival for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination.
...
Sanders at the time served in the House of Representatives, which voted 342-67 in favor of DOMA. The Senate voted 85-14 in favor, before former President Bill Clinton signed it into law.
That was an anti-gay marriage piece of legislation, he added of the law that defined marriage at the federal level as the coupling of one man and one woman.
Sanders on Saturday praised Americans for creating greater opportunities for same-sex couples. Fridays Supreme Court ruling, he charged, was not possible without national pressure for gay rights.
No one here should think for one second this starts with the Supreme Court, Sanders said.
It starts at the grassroots level in all 50 states, he said. The American people want to end discrimination in all its forms.
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/246370-sanders-i-was-ahead-of-the-curve-on-gay-rights
Most Americans now support legally allowing gay and lesbian relationships, same-sex marriage, and personal marijuana use after decades of shifting public opinion. But one Democratic candidate for president, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, was calling for many of these changes decades ago.
In a 1972 letter to a local newspaper which was recently resurfaced by Chelsea Summers at the New Republic Sanders wrote that he supported abolishing "all laws dealing with abortion, drugs, sexual behavior (adultery, homosexuality, etc.)" as part of his campaign for Vermont governor:
These stances were far removed from public opinion at the time, according to Gallup surveys on marijuana and gay and lesbian rights. In 1972, 81 percent of Americans said marijuana should be illegal which suggests even more would favor the prohibition of more dangerous drugs like cocaine and heroin. In 1977, the earliest year of polling data, 43 percent of Americans said gay and lesbian relations between consenting adults should not be legal, while 43 percent said they should be legal.
...
But it took decades for the American public to come around to majority support on these issues: It wasn't until 2013 that a majority of Americans supported marijuana legalization, the early 2000s that most consistently responded in favor of legal gay and lesbian relations, and 2011 that a majority first reported backing same-sex marriage rights.
Sanders has carried many of these positions to this day. He was one of the few federal lawmakers to vote against the Defense of Marriage Act, the federal ban on same-sex marriages, in the 1990s. And while he told Time's Jay Newton-Small in March that he has no current stance on marijuana legalization (but backs medical marijuana), he characterized the war on drugs as costly and destructive.
http://www.vox.com/2015/7/7/8905905/sanders-drugs-gay-rights
Equal pay for equal work by women. (Mar 2015)
Bushs tracking citizens phone call patterns is illegal. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act. (Feb 2013)
Voted NO on Constitutionally defining marriage as one-man-one-woman. (Jul 2006)
Voted NO on making the PATRIOT Act permanent. (Dec 2005)
Voted NO on Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage. (Sep 2004)
Voted NO on protecting the Pledge of Allegiance. (Sep 2004)
Voted NO on constitutional amendment prohibiting flag desecration. (Jun 2003)
Voted NO on banning gay adoptions in DC. (Jul 1999)
Voted NO on ending preferential treatment by race in college admissions. (May 1998)
Constitutional Amendment for equal rights by gender. (Mar 2001)
Rated 93% by the ACLU, indicating a pro-civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)
Rated 100% by the HRC, indicating a pro-gay-rights stance. (Dec 2006)
Rated 97% by the NAACP, indicating a pro-affirmative-action stance. (Dec 2006)
Recognize Juneteenth as historical end of slavery. (Jun 2008)
ENDA: prohibit employment discrimination for gays. (Jun 2009)
Prohibit sexual-identity discrimination at schools. (Mar 2011)
Endorsed as "preferred" by The Feminist Majority indicating pro-women's rights. (Aug 2012)
Enforce against wage discrimination based on gender. (Jan 2013)
Enforce against anti-gay discrimination in public schools. (Jun 2013)
Re-introduce the Equal Rights Amendment. (Mar 2007)
http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/bernie_sanders.htm
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)crickets?
Excellent post, bmus!!
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Game, Set, Match to beam me up scotty.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Why thank you veddy much!
eridani
(51,907 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Speaking doesn't count.
I want someone who has always stood up for civil rights, not someone who had to evolve.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)nothing.
hence you cheering sanders his role. he will put up a good vote, otherwise he does not hold womens hands. i got that.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)The former governor and early proponent of same sex marriage is challenging Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination.
Touting his accomplishments on behalf of the LGBT community, Martin OMalley entered the race for the White House today, already far behind. But the former Maryland governor and mayor of Baltimore betrayed no hint that his long-shot status would derail his ambitions.
...
http://www.advocate.com/politics/2015/05/30/marriage-equality-pioneer-martin-omalley-anti-hillary-candidate-president
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)in other way that i know sanders hasnt. cant say about omalley
close. but that is the order i would put it.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)a handful of days later. i am sure you have all this stuff already to be posted, at a drop of the hat. i do not. and i am not jumping thru your hoops. go find someone else.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You always do this and it gets old.
Why do you think I have links on standby?
jfern
(5,204 posts)Early 1970s, Sanders says there shouldn't be laws about homosexuality.
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/bernie-sanders-was-full-gay-equality-40-years-ago
As mayor in 1985, he proclaims a gay pride day.
http://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMessage/archives/2015/06/30/32-years-before-scotus-decision-sanders-backed-gay-pride-march
Meanwhile, Hillary still opposed SSM in early 2013.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)In fact, Sanders, O'Malley, Chafee, and Biden all supported SSM before her.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)Obviously I give credit to O'Malley for passing it in Maryland, but that's irrelevant when comparing Sanders and Hillary.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)She's been a champion of it her entire career. And not just here in our country, but across the world. I know you don't personally care for her, but she is respected and admired, globally.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Bernie championed civil rights for lgbt people for decades.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)She finally came around in 2013.
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/04/16/hillary-clintons-changing-views-on-gay-marriage/
Keep up.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Bernie Sanders on Civil Rights
Equal pay for equal work by women. (Mar 2015)
Bushs tracking citizens phone call patterns is illegal. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act. (Feb 2013)
Voted NO on Constitutionally defining marriage as one-man-one-woman. (Jul 2006)
Voted NO on making the PATRIOT Act permanent. (Dec 2005)
Voted NO on Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage. (Sep 2004)
Voted NO on protecting the Pledge of Allegiance. (Sep 2004)
Voted NO on constitutional amendment prohibiting flag desecration. (Jun 2003)
Voted NO on banning gay adoptions in DC. (Jul 1999)
Voted NO on ending preferential treatment by race in college admissions. (May 1998)
Constitutional Amendment for equal rights by gender. (Mar 2001)
Rated 93% by the ACLU, indicating a pro-civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)
Rated 100% by the HRC, indicating a pro-gay-rights stance. (Dec 2006)
Rated 97% by the NAACP, indicating a pro-affirmative-action stance. (Dec 2006)
Recognize Juneteenth as historical end of slavery. (Jun 2008)
ENDA: prohibit employment discrimination for gays. (Jun 2009)
Prohibit sexual-identity discrimination at schools. (Mar 2011)
Endorsed as "preferred" by The Feminist Majority indicating pro-women's rights. (Aug 2012)
Enforce against wage discrimination based on gender. (Jan 2013)
Enforce against anti-gay discrimination in public schools. (Jun 2013)
Re-introduce the Equal Rights Amendment. (Mar 2007)
http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/bernie_sanders.htm
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)guts to answer, explained not for marriage equality.
you are playing a game.
he was not on the record for marriage equality, even bluntly asked in 2000, until 2009.
the first documentation you have where marriage equality left his lips is 2009
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Prove it or stop making that claim.
His record on lgbt rights is better than Hillary's and you refuse to acknowledge that.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Put up or shut up.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Stop trying to deflect and post your proof.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)accept things. Change takes time. You can't just force things through overnight on an somewhat ignorant public. Discussions must take place, understanding must take place. The public has proven to be very understanding when they are educated and made aware of such issues. But it takes time. I wish we could accomplish change much more quickly, but we can't without leaving the majority of the public upset. It takes time to build confidence, understanding, education and trust. You can't force it. The public would revolt.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)But that just proves Bernie is better on civil rights.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)But these are only very recent developments. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton may be champions of same-sex marriage now, but you dont have to go far back to find a time when they werent. And hey, were happy to have their evolved support.
Not only did Sanders vote against the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996 which defined marriage as between one man and one woman, signed into law by then-president Bill Clinton an unpopular position then a look back at Sanders political career shows consistent support of the gay rights movement. Even when it was more than just unpopular, it was downright controversial.
In our democratic society, it is the responsibility of government to safeguard civil liberties and civil rights especially the freedom of speech and expression, Sanders wrote later in a memo. In a free society, we must all be committed to the mutual respect of each others lifestyle.
...
It is my very strong view that a society which proclaims human freedom as its goal, as the United States does, must work unceasingly to end discrimination against all people. I am happy to say that this past year, in Burlington, we have made some important progress by adopting an ordinance which prohibits discrimination in housing. This law will give legal protection not only to welfare recipients, and families with children, the elderly and the handicapped but to the gay community as well.
http://www.queerty.com/32-years-before-marriage-equality-bernie-sanders-fought-for-gay-rights-20150719
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Why did she wait until 2013 to stand up?
okasha
(11,573 posts)to a newspaper in Vermont, the idea of same-sex marriage was largely confined to science fiction. Sanders letter calls only for "repealing all laws against"--ie., decrimilalizing--adultery, drug use, homosexuality and abortion. It's one item in a laundry list.
Not exactly a clarion call for lgbt rights, still less full equality.
jfern
(5,204 posts)Of course no one was talking about SSM at the time, so we don't have any quote from Sanders on that issue. But to my knowledge he's never once in his entire life said anything against SSM, and Hillary was still a SSM opponent in early 2013.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)eridani
(51,907 posts)Now how does it sound?
KMOD
(7,906 posts)the need to inflate it is ridiculous though.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Stop misrepresenting my posts.
sheshe2
(83,655 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)dontcha know.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Stop misrepresenting my posts.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)sheshe2
(83,655 posts)Dontcha know.....
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)an advocate speaking out for us and our rights.
we should merely be happy with a vote. standing up for women, literally, is pandering to women and accomplishes nothing. the only thing we are allowed to look at is a vote. not a lifetime of accomplishment.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You ridiculed the op because he had the gall to post a positive thread about Bernie from a woman's point of view.
You just can't stand the fact that women aren't flocking to Hillary on DU like you expected.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)make your last post, cause you always have to have the last word. watch.... betcha you cant let it go. just wait... wait, lets see
nope. you cannot do it.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Mrs. Clinton supported a proposed ban on late-term abortions as long as it included an exception to protect the health of the mother; in turn, she has opposed such a ban when it lacked that exception. She has also supported some state parental notification laws under which a teenager must involve at least one parent in the decision -- but only when there is an exception in the laws that allows the judge to bypass the law and let the teenager obtain an abortion on her own -- a process known as "judicial bypass," which Mrs. Clinton has also supported before.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/25/nyregion/clinton-seeking-shared-ground-over-abortions.html?_r=0
Now I'm done.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Q: Are there circumstances when the government should limit choice?
LAZIO: I had a pro-choice record in the House, and I believe in a womans right to choose. I support a ban on partial-birth abortions. Senator Moynihan called it infanticide. Even former mayor Ed Koch agreed that this was too extreme a procedure. This is an area where I disagree with my opponent. My opponent opposes a ban on partial-birth abortions.
CLINTON: My opponent is wrong. I have said many times that I can support a ban on late-term abortions, including partial-birth abortions, so long as the health and life of the mother is protected. Ive met women who faced this heart-wrenching decision toward the end of a pregnancy. Of course its a horrible procedure. No one would argue with that. But if your life is at stake, if your health is at stake, if the potential for having any more children is at stake, this must be a womans choice.
Source: Senate debate in Manhattan , Oct 8, 2000
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Abortion.htm
Some people just don't want to believe anything negative about their candidate.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)approaching Jonestown levels of disconnection from reality.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I knew HC supporters wouldn't believe me.
It helps to have everything bookmarked.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Is anyone I haven't asked for an opinion telling (me) what is good for my body or my health care. Male, female, or unspecified.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)eridani
(51,907 posts)In that case, all bets are off. Sanders wouldn't give "safe, legal and rare" the time of day.
Autumn
(44,984 posts)sibelian
(7,804 posts)It would be a very sorry state of affairs if woman voters determied who they found worst.
frylock
(34,825 posts)not being a woman?
kath
(10,565 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)In a good way.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You don't get to decide who is better for me.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You have no evidence to back it up.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)with you
KMOD
(7,906 posts)No one is saying you can't.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)But that Tarzan dude from yesterday really pissed me off.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)I think I missed that one. I guess I'm lucky.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Said he was utterly dumbfounded by the "fact" that there are American women who bizarrely do "not" support Hillary Clinton
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=554624
KMOD
(7,906 posts)indeed.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I try to stay out of your positive threads.
No reason to troll them, imo.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)It is bizarre that I support people based on their records? Who knew?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Tarzan is very creepy too, seems obsessed with Hillary.
eridani
(51,907 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1610517
But yeah, let's throw Bernie under the bus like they did to Obama.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)I never have to worry about that with Bernie.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)But what do I know, I'm just a woman.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I feel pretty good about making my own decisions about that. I don't need the DUde squad telling me what is best.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)than Hillary Clinton.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I'm aware the author is, but you are not. Unless your name is Heather.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)No one from "the DUde squad" is "telling you what is best"
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)by men?
We all have to only post articles from our own gender?
That sounds like Internet segregation.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Oh well, I'm not dispensing free advice to TeamBern anymore. I'm union. G'night.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)with your point of view as to which candidate would be best in regards to women's issues, and you only slammed me by your own admission for posting this because I'm a man.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I pointed out that you are a man, not a woman.
Now I could have said: I could make up my own mind, and if guys on DU are putting themselves in the business of telling other women who is best, by using other women as shields for their own patronizing behavior, then that is on them. Now *that* is a slam. But actually, since I like you, I was trying to respect your usual perceptiveness. My mistake. Good night.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)When I replied that the author was a woman, you replied with.
I'm aware the author is, but you are not. Unless your name is Heather.
What you didn't do was actually address the substance of the OP with any factual counter argument other than bringing gender into it, when that didn't work against the author you used it against me.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I can choose to reply any way I like. That's the way this works. Critiquing the intentions of the OP is a DU norm. Nothing at all outside of bounds about that in GDP.
That you choose not to address my actual concern is on you, however. That isn't an attack, it's an observation.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)I have an open mind and would willingly listen to how she is incorrect according to your perspective.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)with organic opinions. She's paid. So there's that.
B) Her main objection is Clinton's "level of enthusiasm" on how to press on gains on women's issues. Claiming that a woman being realistic about the small chance of getting legislation through this bigoted and anti-woman congress that we are potentially stuck with until 2020 isn't a lack of enthusiasm, it's pattern recognition from someone from the oppressed group (mine) that we are in a bad place for advancement on reform.
The rest of it is quote-mining with unsupported innuendo that Bernie is more excited about women's issues than an actual woman candidate, one who addressed the UN with a speech about women's status as second-class citizens that is one of the top 100 historical speeches in history. http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/hillaryclintonbeijingspeech.htm
I have been a woman for 45 years coming this October, and being told that a man knows more about "my issues" than me, puts up red flags. Since you do have an open mind, and believe me, our positive interactions over the years are what is keeping me civil in this convo, I hope you will take it to heart when I say that it is incredibly offensive to be told that a man has found a woman who agrees with him and disagrees with me, to prove a point, when you are talking about my lived experience.
The only thing I opened with in this thread is that I could make up my own mind, and didn't need the men of DU to tell me how to choose. I didn't attack the author or her opinions, only the use of her in this forum, which is not free of history in using people as human shields by people who are not of the group under discussion.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)The only way to change our bigoted and anti-woman congress is to mobilize the people, create a movement, some excitement and shake up the status quo, Bernie's campaign has done this like no other.
Catering to establishment politics and power doesn't do enough to separate ourselves from the Republicans and in turn the people become disenchanted and we get dismal voter turnouts, that plays precisely into Republican hands and lengthens the time before Congress becomes more enlightened in regards to women's issues.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I don't really feel you acknowledged the work I put in on the questions you asked, but ok. That's not on me.
I disagree that Bernie's campaign has the potential to drive voters to the polls on downticket races, he has neither the depth of support or the funding base. And I don't trust many of his supporters to care, because of tone-deaf posts about issues they don't partake in. That's not a problem for me to solve though.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)arguing over one of sanders employees bestowing on all of us, that sanders, who rarely speaks about womens issues, beyond abortion and equal pay. he knows more about womens issues and is an advocate for women. more so than clinton, a woman that thru experiencing the unlevel playing field, going against the glass ceiling in politics, working world wide for and with women and girls rights and issues.
that sanders, the writers employer, is better with womens issues, and understanding.
fuckin surreal.
where was she then to provide sanders the information to go beyond simply telling us during the planned parenthood scandal, that he had not bothered with the video, but had heard about the issue. and agreed with the president of planned parenthoods apology about the TONE. and left it there. hurting us worse than just staying quietly uninformed?
that was his advocacy for women. in all his glory. it took a week or two, for him to actually support women and planned parenthood. and this is the man that is so much more aware of womens issues than clinton.
the one time he actually was called to advocate for women.
and she is a paid employee.
what a fuckin waste of time.
thank you for doing the research starry. stupid, stupid me. anything about clinton, do the research.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)equal pay, he's also stronger on family leave, health care and against the TPP
On the issue of families, Sanders has often pointed out that of 178 countries worldwide, the U.S. is one of three that does not provide new mothers with paid leave. He argues for a Scandinavia-like model, where family leave is part of a robust system of social safety nets. As president, he would provide workers with up 12 weeks of family and medical leave, funded with a small payroll contribution -- so that parents can bond with their newborns, and family members care for sick relatives. He would also free millions of women from the struggle to secure childcare by making high-quality services and pre-K available to all Americans, regardless of income.
The Clinton campaign has made family leave a centerpiece of its platform, but the candidate's level of enthusiasm is not encouraging. Just last year she openly admitted to CNN, "I don't think, politically, we could get it now."
(snip)
Even with decent wages, however, many Americans have spiraled into financial ruin from excessive medical costs. Women are especially afflicted, as we are less likely than men to be insured, and our healthcare expenses tend to be higher. While Clinton says she'll go with "what works" in Obamacare, Sanders' Medicare for All will help reduce out of pocket costs for lower income Americans. Along with expanded retirement benefits, universal healthcare can help eradicate these ruinous trends -- which are especially pronounced for elderly women, half of whom would sink into poverty without their Social Security checks.
Finally, there's the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), which promises to bring jobs, but mostly the kind that exploit poor women in the developing world. American women also stand to lose, as the TPP will enable corporations to outsource low-wage majority-female jobs (and some high-wage ones too). Clinton has been woolly on the TPP, most likely because her husband is among the world's premier trade liberalizers.
Sanders, on the other hand, has spearheaded the opposition -- not just now, but back in the '90s against Bill Clinton's NAFTA, which cost American workers over one million jobs and put enormous downward pressure on their wages.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/heather-gautney/bernie-sanders-womens-issues_b_8049572.html
Furthermore and this isn't mentioned in the OP but I consider war and global warming climate change to be women's issues as well as men's and Bernie is stronger on both.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)of women and girls around the world.
i cannot tell you how arrogantly and egotistically condescending that is. as a woman.
he FAILED with the one time, during this campaign he needed to step up and speak out for women. FAILED. it was not even neutral, but a fail hurting us. reinforcing the rw bullshit that the tone needed an apology.
and that was it. nothing else said for a week or two.
dont tell me he is my advocate when the one opportunity he had, he failed.
sanders having the audacity to declare himself more my advocate than clinton, tells me he is not on my side.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Wednesday, July 29, 2015
WASHINGTON, July 29 Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) issued the following statement today as Senate Republicans pushed for a vote on legislation to cut $500 million in annual funding for Planned Parenthood:
The attempt by Senate Republicans to cut off support for Planned Parenthood is an attack on womens health. Stripping funding for Planned Parenthood would punish the 2.7 million Americans, especially low-income women, who rely on its clinics for affordable, quality health care services including cancer prevention, STI and HIV testing and general primary health care services.
The current attempt to discredit Planned Parenthood is part of a long-term smear campaign by people who want to deny women in this country the right to control their own bodies.
Lets be clear: Federal funding for Planned Parenthood does not pay for abortions. The vast majority of government funding that Planned Parenthood receives is through Medicaid reimbursements. Cutting that funding will be devastating to the health needs of millions of women who desperately need the quality services Planned Parenthood provides."
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-statement-on-planned-parenthood?utm_content=buffer84612&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Let us stick with the fact that she is a paid employee.
Biased rhetoric from an employee for her boss. I see it a lot at work.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)Is your place of work a political campaign?
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Here's the link to the article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/heather-gautney/bernie-sanders-womens-issues_b_8049572.html
She's part of the campaign and states that clearly. Hillary regularly sends her people out vis a vis OpEds (e.g. Anthony Wiener, Howard Dean, etc.) There is NO DIFFERENCE. Yet, here you are disseminating misleading propaganda. You must already know that's all she's got. She's counting on her drones to do her dirty work. Well done, seabyond. Bravo.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)"Dr. Heather Gautney is an associate professor of sociology at Fordham University. She is author of Protest and Organization in the Alternative Globalization Era (Palgrave Macmillan). She was a legislative fellow in the Office of Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) in 2012-13, and is a Senior Researcher on his 2016 presidential campaign." That's her bio at the Huffpo link.
This is going to be a long year for feminists and people of color, that is for sure. That's probably all the nice I have left in me tonight, lol.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I mean since Dr. Gautney is so vile and despicable you must feel the same way about Symone, right?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)While campaigning for Democrats during last falls midterm campaign, Hillary Rodham Clinton was interrupted during several speeches by young Latino activists, who call themselves Dreamers, pressing her to take a stance on an overhaul of the immigration system.
Hillary, do you stand with our immigrant families? shouted one activist.
What a difference six months can make.
Just weeks after Mrs. Clinton strongly advocated for more expansive efforts to end deportation of undocumented immigrants, the Clinton campaign said on Wednesday that it had hired one of the most prominent activists among the Dreamers, Lorella Praeli, to lead her Latino outreach efforts.
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/05/20/hillary-clinton-hires-lorella-praeli-a-dreamer-to-connect-with-latinos/
So Hillary has no integrity either, right sea?
sheshe2
(83,655 posts)That was one hell of a post. Thank you Starry Messenger.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)This has been a rather eye-opening thread. If any HRC supporter straight up posted an article from a Clinton staffer to support a point, we'd have our heads torn off.
sheshe2
(83,655 posts)I like what you, sea and others had to say. One persons opinion does not a fact make, nor does it lend itself to be unbiased when you are a paid staffer. Of course she will talk up her boss as the best of the best.
It has been good reading. I had a really long weekend at work, to I am doing more reading than talking.
Thanks, S M~
sheshe2
(83,655 posts)and your understanding of out issues. Not every article from a woman supports us.
This is an extremely sensitive issue. Do not presume to understand.
We all have to only post articles from our own gender?
That sounds like Internet segregation.
We have been abused by men most of our life. Physically,yes. Socially, yes we are deemed less than a man. We are paid less than a man. We are the ones that have been segregated, used and abused.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I welcome input from our male allies and commend them for caring.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)Last edited Sun Aug 30, 2015, 09:57 AM - Edit history (1)
been supportive of women's issues.
I'm not a woman but my mother was and she raised me and my brothers on her own, I know the challenges and uphill fights that she and many other women face, not because I'm a woman but because I have empathy.
I don't have to be black, gay, a woman or a third world sweat shop worker to empathize with their plight.
Empathy is an inherent trait, some people have it and some people don't.
sheshe2
(83,655 posts)Yet, you are for a politician that in my mind,as a woman, believes he has a better handle on my best interests than I do. I am telling you he does not. That is mans-planing to the little woman. The article was written by a female, yes. Yet she is a paid employee and biased. Not all women support other women. She supports her boss.
I want the right to be paid the same as a man. I want to be treated as an equal. I want the right to make decisions over my body. I want the right not to be battered and abused in my own home. I want justice from my abuser. Bernie only cares about economic justice. No matter how many times he speaks about issues, he always, always comes back to economic justice. That does not now or will ever work for me.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)His campaign supporter stated her opinion that Bernie would be better on women's issues than Hillary Clinton.
What drives people to work for political campaigns?
Is it always just money, would you go to work for Donald Trump or Jeb Bush?
I highly doubt it, your conscious wouldn't let you, perhaps unless you were absolutely starving and needed the job, I don't believe that's the case with the author of the OP.
She must have some degree of faith in Bernie's positions, words, actions and ideals.
I agree with and understand your wants and needs on your last paragraph but Bernie is not only about economic justice, he covers a wide range of subjects including climate change, education, racism, government intrusion and our dysfunctional justice system among others.
Bernie is not of the belief that abuse, misogyny and racism would be cured or disappear from just his economic justice proposals being enacted alone.
Having said that I believe the stress levels on society as a whole would be reduced and we would have more happiness in the nation, all genders and all races, that doesn't negate comprehensive policies and reform targeted at these specific issues from also being required.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)Here's one by you.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025495576
Here's one by FourScore.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025586570
Here's one by kpete.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101628490
Here's one by Joanne98
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x551351
Here's one by Liberal_in_LA
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x465301
Here's one by La Lioness Priyanka
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021925458
Here's one by southern_belle
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3277362
Here's one by cal04
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027039189
Here's one by ErikJ
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11383970
Here's one by sibelian.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025362573
I could find more if I wanted to spend more time on it, if you wish I will more for you tomorrow.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)"Not every article from a woman supports us."
Most interesting. Can you elaborate?
Zorra
(27,670 posts)to do what he says he is going to do.
Another is that he won't spend the overwhelming majority of his time as POTUS serving wealthy private interests like Hillary will. He'll spend all his time as POTUS serving OUR interests.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)Peace to you.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)That means a lot to me.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I am the only girl and I work in a male dominated industry so I have always appreciated men who stick up for me.
I wish I could say the same about some women.
They have accused me of getting my job based on looks and/or sleeping with a man more than once.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)They all laughed their heads off. Sanders is a laughing stock.
Spazito
(50,165 posts)I'm no fan of Hillary Clinton but, damn, she's been fighting for women's issues while Bernie was all about oligarchs and the 1%ers in one form or another for decades not to mention his article about women's 'fantasies about rape'. By the way, while Bernie Sanders was penning his now infamous article, Hillary Clinton she had already served as staff attorney for the Children's Defense Fund in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Give me a fucking break.
There might well be reasons to support Sanders but women's issues isn't one of them, imo.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Bernie has always supported equal rights for women, lgbt people and minorities.
Hillary hasn't.
It's that simple.
Spazito
(50,165 posts)it might take time to respond....or not.
Bernie Sanders has supported....voted the right way....whooptiefuckingdo. Please show me the bills he sponsored and got passed in the Senate on these issues....I will wait....for a while.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Why should I repost the facts when you can't be bothered to read?
Spazito
(50,165 posts)and know you have posted links with no bills he sponsored and got passed, I know you kept changing the goalposts in your answers.
Your response does nothing to negate my first post.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)But I base my vote on a candidate's record on civil rights.
Bernie is a better advocate because he was ahead of Hillary.
ymmv
Spazito
(50,165 posts)standing in the Senate shouting at the clouds while accomplishing nothing that could be considered a concrete result is not action, it's empty rhetoric, imo.
Bernie is not an advocate for women, he is a one trick pony obsessed with the 'oligarchs and the 1%ers' and little else, imo, and he equates women's issues within that one narrow focus. Everything, and I mean everything, only has relevance to him if it ties in with his 30 year obsession and, hello, everything doesn't equate to that one focus.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)But I get it now.
This isn't about my rights it's just another excuse to bash Bernie.
Nice try, I almost thought you cared for a minute.
Spazito
(50,165 posts)I have no shame in that, am actually proud of that fact.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Spazito
(50,165 posts)I could say I was disappointed you didn't espouse the same but I am actually not surprised you seem to put a candidate above women's rights and try to diminish anyone who doesn't see Bernie Sanders as the savior of women.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Spazito
(50,165 posts)but, hey, I've noticed your posts seem to have issues with some women who speak out in a way that doesn't meet your approval. Gosh, should I feel chastened or something, lol.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Spazito
(50,165 posts)it seems we are in agreement about something.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Spazito
(50,165 posts)no, no it's not. It's a non sequitur.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Also that US women don't give a shit about the mass murder of women around the world by the MIC.
Spazito
(50,165 posts)which is Bernie Sanders being better on women's issues.
eridani
(51,907 posts)--just don't care about? Everyone keeps saying that Clinton has advocated on a world stage for women, something that the other candidates haven't done. Publicly speaking for women's rights and bombing the shit out of them are not ethically consistent positions.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)Spazito
(50,165 posts)Bernie Sanders doesn't fight for women's issues, he fights the oligarchs and the 1%ers, the two are not one and the same contrary to what some might think.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)is threatened by our ridiculous disparities in wealth and overall economic injustice.
Women's issues are separate in some ways but you can't take them out of the nation as whole as if great in economic instability and governmental corruption doesn't affect them as well.
Spazito
(50,165 posts)just as it will not erase racism or discrimination against POC. It is a one trick pony answer to what is a complex set of problems.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)or any color in between, we're all in this nation together for better or worse.
Our dysfunctional disparity of wealth, economic injustice and corruption in government by worshiping the almighty dollar will most assuredly if not corrected make matters worse for our nation and everyone in it, no matter your gender and no matter your race.
Spazito
(50,165 posts)focusing solely on that leaves everything else out in the cold.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)When a nation has great disparities in wealth, you end up getting the best government that money can buy.
You end up getting Citizens United.
You end up with foreign corporations and foreign interests having increasing control over the U.S. Government.
You end up with a bought and paid for corporate media propaganda machine which primarily works for keeping the people divided along cultural and racial lines because that insures the status quo government staying power which in turn primarily serves the interests of oligarchs and mega-corporations.
You end up with corporate media/think tank continuous attacks on science, education and critical thinking, ie; global warming is a hoax etc. etc.
You end up with having history rewrote.
You end up going to needless wars for profit.
You end up with for profit prisons and the largest inmate population in the world even over China and India.
You end up with growing levels of poverty, drug abuse and broken families.
You end up with both parents (if you have both parents) having to work just to keep the bills paid and strangers raising your children.
Spazito
(50,165 posts)I WANT MINE....and when you leave out the other issues it translates into the same 'stepping on the heads' of others like women and POC to get it, imo, not very different than the oligarchs and 1%ers in the big picture, imo.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)He's also taking on the corporate media
Bernie Sanders Blasts The Media For Not Covering The Real Issues Of The Campaign
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251544701
He has defended Hillary Clinton against the media attacks trivial or non-substantive criticisms, Bernie has tried to keep the media focused on critical issues, whether it's the economy, global warming, racism, poverty, women's issues and an entire host of others.
Spazito
(50,165 posts)Every 'issue' Bernie Sanders raises, he ties it into the same single focus, economic issues. Every single issue.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)the corporate media to cover the issues.
If the corporate media actually focused primarily on the critical issues; whatever they are and Bernie's argument that great disparities in wealth didn't in one way or another adversely affect them, he would lose standing as his arguments would be shot down.
Of course I'm of the belief that Bernie is correct with his hypothesis and I suspect most if not all of the corporate media is as well.
Spazito
(50,165 posts)certainly not something that should put him on a pedestal of any kind. Again, his focus is solely on economic disparities and his complaint about the media is rested on that as he sees issues outside of his focus as side issues which will be solved by solving the 'money' issue. His view is simplistic.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/09/1410278/-Bernie-Sanders-defends-Hillary-Clinton-thinks-he-has-a-chance-with-people-power
Bernie Sanders showed a lot of class on Sunday's Face The Nation when given the opportunity to go negative on Hillary Clinton. In fact, he used the first part of his answer to provide a full-throated defense of his opponent.
Face the Nation moderator John Dickerson asked Sanders if linking Hillary Clinton's email issues with her trustworthiness is justified.
"This is what I think," Sanders replied. "I think for a variety of reasons Hillary Clinton has been under all kinds of attack for many many years. In fact I can't think of many personalities who have been attacked for more reasons than Hillary Clinton. And by the way, let me be frank and I am running against her. Some of it is sexist. I don't know that a man would be treated the same way that Hillary is. So all that I can say is I have known Hillary Clinton for twenty five years. I admire her. I respect her. I like her. She and I have very different points of view on a number of issues. We have differences of opinion on the Trans Pacific Partnership. We have differences on Keystone Pipeline. She voted for the war in Iraq. I helped lead the opposition against it. She voted for the Patriot Act. I voted against it. I think we have to take on the billionaire class and Wall Street." [Emphasis added]
There is a video on the link if you wish to view it.
Spazito
(50,165 posts)which is the subject of your OP. Even in your excerpt, the last line is the be all, end all for Bernie Sanders..."I think we have to take on the billionaire class and Wall Street."
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)which he is pleading for the corporate media to focus on all issues (that would be including women's issues) not just economic ones.
Spazito
(50,165 posts)all the other issues. It will not. Economic disparity issues may intersect with some of the issues but they are NOT merely a subset of economic disparity that will disappear once the illusion of parity is reached.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)stating that she has received some of the harshest attacks of anyone over recent years by the media and some of it is sexist.
Bernie has never claimed that the issues of racism or misogyny will "disappear" should our society become more economically balanced, but if the record of Northern European nations are a guide, we will be happier as a nation, that would include men and women.
Spazito
(50,165 posts)that was and still is being practiced against Hillary Clinton specifically his " I don't know that a man would be treated the same way that Hillary is." strikes me as rather weak. We KNOW a man would not be treated the same way. In every speech I have heard he always ties any other issues right back into the economic disparity issue, the issue he is most comfortable speaking about as he has been honing his message for thirty years.
His focus is on economic disparity, all else falls far below and, in his thinking, if the disparity is corrected everything else will follow. Again, it is simplistic, imo.
As to the record of the Northern European nations, the differences between them and the US is glaring. For starters, they are, for the most part, parliamentary governance systems where the federal government has primacy in making decision if they are for the 'greater good' of the populace. The US system is diametrically opposite in that the States have primacy which changes how any economic balance, nationally, can happen.
A second and equally important point, imo, is the very culture, psyche of the American people is vastly different than those in the Northern European countries. Too many only see the results in those countries without considering what systems 'allowed' those results to occur.
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)Peace to you, Spazito.
Spazito
(50,165 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)substantive issues and not just economic ones, but issues related to race, and gender as well.
George II
(67,782 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Sanders has voted for the Paycheck Fairness Act and said of the opposition to it, If the U.S. Senate had 80 women rather than 80 men as it does now, his bill would pass immediately. He lists pay equity as one of the issues on his website.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/04/14/3646349/equal-pay-2016-candidates/
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)until she didn't.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)This is what they just told me:
They're not here to discuss anything.
They want to shame you for posting the op.
I still say
Uncle Joe
(58,298 posts)I'm not worried about it though, my conscious is clear, I stand resolute in my belief.
Peace to you.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)+ a brazilian. You killed it in this thread, bmus!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Thanks!
Cha
(296,867 posts)Thanks for the support! I gotta say I read the OP and, geez, there was NO way I could let it pass, it literally made me go WTF and along with other reactions best left unsaid, lol.
Thank you, Spazito.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)I know there's a perception that Clinton is strong on civil rights, and perception can be as good as reality, but what is the basis - outside of some rhetoric - for thinking Clinton will actually *do* something to address civil rights in a positive or progressive manner?
Yes, she's a woman. But there are many women, such as Charlotte Hays, who absolutely suck when it comes to women's rights and civil rights in general. Just as there are persons of color, such as Clarence Thomas and Ben Carson, who suck when it comes to racial justice.
No man can know what it's like to be a woman or to live as a woman in a patriarchal society. Just as no white person can know what it's like to be black in America. But that doesn't mean Sanders isn't more likely than Clinton to defend and promote civil rights.
eridani
(51,907 posts)--on reproductive rights and women's issues in general (possible exception of Webb). I credit Sanders for getting there first, but if everyone is pretty much on the same page right now, splitting hairs over microdifferences is pretty pointless.
Other issues that impact women more than men is a different story.
BainsBane
(53,016 posts)Not even close. What the author mentions in terms of Roe and PP is standard for any Democrat, even on the furthest right of the party. It is not "better;" it is a base line minimum. Casting a vote when it is put in front of you does not constitute "fighting for women's rights." On his website, his reference to women's reproductive rights points to a bill that stalled in committee over a year ago. That would seem to be enough for some. He hasn't even bothered to make one of his showboat legislative proposals as he has done for a number of other issues.
Sanders hasn't been proactive in defending Planned Parenthood from the RW sting operation as Clinton has. She has clearly been far stronger on this issue, has a much more active history before she became First Lady, while in the White House and certainly as Secretary of State. It was Clinton who in Beijing in 1993 made the memorable statement that "human rights are women's rights and women's rights are human rights once and for all." As Secretary of State, she elevated key issues like human trafficking--slavery--to international importance. She doesn't sit back and wait to be asked about PP or reproductive rights. She doesn't tell men who oppose reproductive freedom that "we'll agree to disagree." She stood up for reproductive rights before a Republican Senate Committee with the power to deny her confirmation, and she told them in no uncertain terms that she would actively promote reproductive healthcare, including abortion. Women's rights are central to Hillary Clinton is, just as Sanders' economic platform is central to who he is.
That the author then points to issues not at all specific to women--single payer (which I would love to see but if wishes amounted to anything we'd already have that and much of the other reforms Sanders promises, knowing full well he has no possibility of implementing them, which I don't appreciate at all) and of course the defining issue of the white liberal bourgeoisie, TPP. Yet the author of the article doesn't even bother to look up Clinton's voting record on trade agreements--that she twice voted against CAFTA--and falsely insists she is somehow bound by her husband's policies from the 1990s.
If women's issues is defined as throwing out the Kochs as red meat to his base and feeding into
the anger of the $80k+ a year demographic https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/wtuckrpu76/econTabReport.pdf
against the $450k a plus demographic, then I suppose that's better. Few Americans, however, live in that rarefied world. That is an ideology that expresses the conflict of the white, majority male upper-middle class against the super rich. If you are a privileged Associate Professor at Fordham university married to another upper-middle class wage earner which gives you a combined household income in the upper 5-10 percent $150-195k yr), then you're right in Bernie's demographic.
The author quite erroneously assumes that economic reforms intended to create better paying jobs will magically help women. How? Why would justice for women trickle down anymore than racial equality or economic wealth? Let's pretend the fairy dust works and all Sanders promises about infrastructure jobs are magically approved by the GOP congress. How does that help women when those industries are 82% male because of sexual harassment and hostile work conditions, the sort of thing I have seen described here as "freedom of speech"? Saying one is for equal pay amounts to nothing. That is already the law of the land. What proposals does he offer to address disparities that continue despite those laws? I saw nothing on his website or in the article above. Clinton has a proposal to require that companies make wages known to their employees, which would give women the ability to file a claim of unequal pay.
What if you're one of those women threatened by an abusive partner, who the gun lobby is ensuring has access to guns to do away with you? How does Sanders refusal to speak out for gun control help those women?
And while Dr. Gautney can access the best gynecologists in America from her home in New York City, regardless of which party occupies the White House, the women throughout Texas and the rest of the South still have to travel hundreds of miles to access reproductive care. And if Sanders should become the Democratic nominee and the GOP wins the White House, the women throughout the red states will see their reproductive rights stripped away, and they will be enabled by a Tea Party DOJ.
The only areas that the author cites that would be better for women and men are reforms that have no possibility of passing given the fact we have a GOP congress, and given gerrymandering there is no way the House will go to the Democrats in 2016. Gautney condemns Clinton for talking about what is politically possible. Apparently for Dr. Gautney thinking about what could actually become law suggests a "lack of enthusiasm." I see the issue quite differently: I resent empty promises. I like the fact that Hillary Clinton treats voters seriously, that she carefully considers what she can actually implement. She knows that when she makes a promise, she faces a good chance of actually having to follow through on it. Sanders seems unencumbered by such considerations. My life is not improved by fairytales and empty promises, and I do not trust politicians who make them.
If Sanders were really better for women, why then would his supporters here become so angry when asked about his positions on women's issues? Why would they accuse those who have the audacity to even ask of being "divisive" and "calling him sexist"? That communicates quite clearly they see the question as illegitimate and the issues as inconsequential, just as they responded to similar questions by African Americans. All of that paints quite a clear picture of what to expect from a potential Sanders presidency. One member insisted that Sanders would not forget his supporters, that he would appoint some of them to key positions in his administration. That was meant to convince everyone he would not be like the POSUCS Barack Obama. Given the hostility with which mere questions about Sanders' policies and plans toward the subaltern have been met, the message communicated by the actions of his supporters throughout social media is far from comforting in terms of the potential for our concerns to be addressed by a Sanders administration.
Ultimately, if Sanders were really better for women, he would be attracting more women as supporters.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/wtuckrpu76/econTabReport.pdf
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251542288
Each woman, like every other voter, will make her own decision about which candidate best represents the entirety of their concerns. I myself will be voting in my own gender and class interests rather than in those of Professor Gautney.
^^^ What Baines said.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)He didn't vote to ban late term abortions.
I trust him not to try to find common ground with the GOP when it comes to reproductive rights.
Votes matter.
It's not just about what a candidate voted to support, it's also about what they voted to restrict.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Why should Hillary get one for siding with them?
Politicians have no business restricting abortion rights.
Period.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You actually think that the reason women get late term abortions is because they don't want a kid?
Even after I posted this information?:
There are all kinds of assumptions made about those who have late term abortions with myths of laziness, apathy, and cruelty creating the stigma and this stigma is detrimental to those who need these procedures.
But what are the reasons people have for actually getting late term abortions?
First, Ill tell you what theyre not.
Late term abortions are not used as birth control, despite this illogical cultural myth that they are.
Because really, Ill just travel to Germantown, Maryland and spend three days and $10,000 there every time I want to take birth control. Its that easy.
Late term abortions are not easy. First and second trimester abortions might be for those with the support and resources.
But late term abortions unfortunately arent. The endless barriers and challenges make them difficult, complex, and expensive procedures, thanks in part to a culture that wishes they did
...
Who is performing them?
While anti-abortion clinic harassment and violence affects every abortion clinic, clinics and doctors who perform late term abortions are frequent targets, often experiencing the most devastating violence.
For years leading up to the tragic assassination of late-term abortion provider Dr. George Tiller in 2010, anti-choice extremists engaged in constant scare tactics aimed at Dr. Tiller and his clinic in Kansas. His murder only added fuel to the fire of fear experienced by late-term abortion providers, perpetuated by anti-choice activists and a culture that supports them.
The sadness that surrounded Dr. Tillers murder was made worse by the fact that the world had lost not only a great man, but also one of the last remaining late-term abortion doctors.
There remain today only 4 doctors left in the U.S. who perform third trimester abortions.
Thats three clinics, meaning that when a person needs a late-term abortion, they have only three places to go in the entire country.
http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/06/truth-late-term-abortions/
Women do not carry a fetus for 8-9 months and then suddenly change their mind and run out to get an abortion.
They are not used as birth control, even if a woman wanted to do that no doctor would perform the procedure.
I can't believe I have to explain this to you again.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)I think women get late term abortions because earlier abortions are not available to them. They also get them for medical reasons. I am not against them, I though I was clear on that. Preventing them, would be very nice though. HRC and I agree on that. There is no woman who wants to abort a 8 or 9 month of fetus. We need to make sure that no woman has to go through that decision, ever.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You were debating with several posters at once so I gave you the benefit of the doubt but now I'm getting pissed.
You didn't read the info or the ops I posted, did you?
Thats right when my patients find out about devastating fetal defects.
The Texas House of Representatives this week passed HB2, a bill to prohibit abortions after 20 weeks of gestation. Many opponents of abortion may hope this means that all late mid-term fetuses in Texas would soon be carried to term and live healthy lives instead of being terminated. But lost was any discussion of why women might seek a late mid-term abortion in the first placeand the unintended, counterintuitive effects of a ban on such procedures, which might even increase the total number of abortions.
Abortions today are common. At current rates, it is estimated that roughly 1 in 3 women will have one by the time they reach 45 years of ageincluding in places like Texas. One important reason is that half of all pregnancies are unintended. The cause isnt just unprotected sex; as I wrote last year in Slate, many forms of birth control are much less reliable than many women realize. For example, 5 percent of women on the pill still get pregnant each year.
Of the roughly 7 million American pregnancies each year, about 1 million end in abortion. However, almost all of the procedures are performed early in pregnancy. According to the Guttmacher Institute, only about 1 percent of abortions are performed after 20 weeks of gestation (a normal pregnancy is 40 weeks), which are those banned by the proposed Texas law.
Why do some women wait so long? The answer is that comprehensive fetal testing, such as anatomical sonograms and ultrasounds of the heart, are typically performed just before 20 weeks of gestation. Such scans are critical for uncovering major birth defects, such as anencephaly (severe brain malformations), major heart defects, missing organs and limbs, and other severe birth defects. Fetal development is a complex process that often goes awry. Roughly 2 percent of all pregnancies are complicated by a major birth defect, and of those about 0.5 percent have a chromosomal defect, such as an extra or missing segment of normal DNA. Birth defects are a leading cause of infant mortality, and in many cases of severe birth defects, no medical treatment can salvage a fetuss life or result in any measure of normal future health.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/07/texas_abortion_ban_after_20_weeks_prenatal_testing_reveals_birth_defects.html
Stop repeating anti-choice talking points on DU.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Eff off. I'm not anti-choice.
I'm so sick of this shit.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Why won't you read the information?
It's not my opinion, it's fact.
And if you won't even bother to learn the facts about abortion, why do you think you have the right to tell me which candidate is better for me?
I'm not alerting on your post, I want everyone to see what women on DU have to put up with when we try to inform others.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)All you do is try to piss people off, and misrepresent what they say. I'm done with you.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I am trying to explain why women make the decision to abort after 20 weeks.
If you want me to delete your quote I will, but at least read the information.
It's that important.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Always has been, always will be. Any statement is, to use the old Watergate term, "operational," only once.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x715649
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4024486
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5539392
I fully expect the feminists who support HC and were so outspoken about this issue in the past to speak up about it in this thread.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Go ahead and alert me for that comment. I'm sure that's what you are aiming for at this point.
Once again, this is not cut and dry. No woman should ever have to think about aborting in the third trimester. I can't imagine how painful that could be. We need to make medical advances so that is never a decision a woman should have to make. Access to early abortion, access to pregnancy preventative care, access to education, that is what I favor.
In the year 2015 there should be no need, at all, for a late term abortion, unless the mother's life is in danger. That is what we need to get up to speed on.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)The answer is that comprehensive fetal testing, such as anatomical sonograms and ultrasounds of the heart, are typically performed just before 20 weeks of gestation. Such scans are critical for uncovering major birth defects, such as anencephaly (severe brain malformations), major heart defects, missing organs and limbs, and other severe birth defects. Fetal development is a complex process that often goes awry. Roughly 2 percent of all pregnancies are complicated by a major birth defect, and of those about 0.5 percent have a chromosomal defect, such as an extra or missing segment of normal DNA. Birth defects are a leading cause of infant mortality, and in many cases of severe birth defects, no medical treatment can salvage a fetuss life or result in any measure of normal future health.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/07/texas_abortion_ban_after_20_weeks_prenatal_testing_reveals_birth_defects.html
KMOD
(7,906 posts)There is a huge difference between 5 months and 8 months.
Again, fetal testing can be done earlier. It's 2015 Beam.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Please explain which tests can be done earlier and why that would prevent late term abortions.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I suggest you find something else to convince me why restricting my reproductive rights is necessary.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)and you fucking know that. You are deliberately trolling at this point.
I hope others can see through you as well. Cuz, you aren't even hiding it anymore.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Yes or no?
KMOD
(7,906 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #344)
Post removed
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You keep going on and on about what you want for women but you never really said what you disagreed with.
And I'm not going to alert on your comments but I wish you would edit them.
If we agree on not restricting abortion and that women don't abort healthy 8-9 month old fetuses we're square, imo.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)It's obvious what your intentions are here.
I have been quite clear on my position. You, however are trolling.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)even talking about
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Would you care to explain to KMOD why women get late term abortions? I know you have strong opinions on this and I don't seem to be getting through.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)i have read from her suggest she favored a ban, she has spoken the opposite. further. the one vote i saw, she voted against a ban
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Q: Are there circumstances when the government should limit choice?
LAZIO: I had a pro-choice record in the House, and I believe in a womans right to choose. I support a ban on partial-birth abortions. Senator Moynihan called it infanticide. Even former mayor Ed Koch agreed that this was too extreme a procedure. This is an area where I disagree with my opponent. My opponent opposes a ban on partial-birth abortions.
CLINTON: My opponent is wrong. I have said many times that I can support a ban on late-term abortions, including partial-birth abortions, so long as the health and life of the mother is protected. Ive met women who faced this heart-wrenching decision toward the end of a pregnancy. Of course its a horrible procedure. No one would argue with that. But if your life is at stake, if your health is at stake, if the potential for having any more children is at stake, this must be a womans choice.
Source: Senate debate in Manhattan , Oct 8, 2000
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Abortion.htm
KMOD
(7,906 posts)yesterday.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And that is not supported by the facts.
Did you read the article?
KMOD
(7,906 posts)We should also strive for preventing pregnancy in the first place.
Obviously there should be exclusions for having a late-term abortions. But it should also be prevented at all costs. It's painful and heartbreaking.
We went through this yesterday.
I have lost all respect for you.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Which exemptions should be made for late term abortions?
KMOD
(7,906 posts)I'm not ignorant on this issue.
Once again, I know why women get them. I want to prevent this possible pain they can go through when it happens that late in pregnancy. I want to prevent women from having to face this gut wrenching choice, period.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Instead of leaving it up to the woman and their doctor you want to pass legislation that makes it more difficult to get what should be a safe, legal and affordable medical procedure.
You know nothing.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)I never said any such thing. I said we should work on preventing it, not removing the option.
How dare you misrepresent my posts.
You either have extremely bad comprehension skills, or you are just merely here to be disruptive. I'm going with the latter.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)It should not be up to legislators to decide what is in my best interest.
You are welcome to your opinion but I don't have to respect it.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)You are trolling me.
It's quite obvious at this point.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)19. Late term abortions are hugely controversial.
I agree with HRC on that. I would also prefer abortions, if needed, take place in the early months of pregnancy. If you're 8 or 9 months along, I wish it would be done due to health reasons. I also realize there are examples that don't fit comfortably here. Another reason not to elect an republican.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=558131
That is absolutely wrong and insulting to women.
And that is what started this whole conversation.
What set me of was when you didn't correct your statement and instead doubled down on it in this thread.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)74. Clinton voted NO both on the bill and the conference report.
Any reason why she is singled in this (and you know I am not a fan of Clinton).
75. I am not sure what you mean.
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/r...
I used this page listed above, and I concentrated on the ones who voted FOR it. I don't think I mentioned the ones who voted against it. but I think it was understood I was critical of those who voted yes.
I did not mention her name. The picture is the leaders of the DLC.
I have not been critical of Senator Clinton and Bill Clinton, and I have not said much about them....except I think they should have spoken out on the war. They could have had a lot of influence.
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=1&vote=00051#position
Alphabetical by Senator Name
Akaka (D-HI), Nay
Alexander (R-TN), Yea
Allard (R-CO), Yea
Allen (R-VA), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Nay
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Not Voting
Bingaman (D-NM), Nay
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Nay
Breaux (D-LA), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Yea
Bunning (R-KY), Yea
Burns (R-MT), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Yea
Campbell (R-CO), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Nay
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Chafee (R-RI), Nay
Chambliss (R-GA), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Nay
Cochran (R-MS), Yea
Coleman (R-MN), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Nay
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Cornyn (R-TX), Yea
Corzine (D-NJ), Nay
Craig (R-ID), Yea
Crapo (R-ID), Yea
Daschle (D-SD), Yea
Dayton (D-MN), Nay
DeWine (R-OH), Yea
Dodd (D-CT), Nay
Dole (R-NC), Yea
Domenici (R-NM), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Durbin (D-IL), Nay
Edwards (D-NC), Not Voting
Ensign (R-NV), Yea
Enzi (R-WY), Yea
Feingold (D-WI), Nay
Feinstein (D-CA), Nay
Fitzgerald (R-IL), Yea
Frist (R-TN), Yea
Graham (D-FL), Nay
Graham (R-SC), Yea
Grassley (R-IA), Yea
Gregg (R-NH), Yea
Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Nay
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Hollings (D-SC), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Inhofe (R-OK), Yea
Inouye (D-HI), Nay
Jeffords (I-VT), Nay
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kennedy (D-MA), Nay
Kerry (D-MA), Not Voting
Kohl (D-WI), Nay
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Nay
Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Levin (D-MI), Nay
Lieberman (D-CT), Nay
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lott (R-MS), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Nay
Miller (D-GA), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Nay
Nelson (D-FL), Nay
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Nickles (R-OK), Yea
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Nay
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Yea
Rockefeller (D-WV), Nay
Santorum (R-PA), Yea
Sarbanes (D-MD), Nay
Schumer (D-NY), Nay
Sessions (R-AL), Yea
Shelby (R-AL), Yea
Smith (R-OR), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Nay
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Nay
Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Sununu (R-NH), Yea
Talent (R-MO), Yea
Thomas (R-WY), Yea
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Warner (R-VA), Yea
Wyden (D-OR), Nay
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)This bill is a direct challenge to Roe v. Wade, which has protected a woman's constitutional right to privacy for over 40 years. The bill follows a dangerous trend we are witnessing across the country. In just the first three months of 2015, more than 300 bills have been introduced in state legislatures on top of the nearly 30 measures introduced in Congress that restrict access to abortion.
http://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/hillary-clinton-scolds-us-house-for-banning-late-term-abortions
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Mrs. Clinton supported a proposed ban on late-term abortions as long as it included an exception to protect the health of the mother; in turn, she has opposed such a ban when it lacked that exception. She has also supported some state parental notification laws under which a teenager must involve at least one parent in the decision -- but only when there is an exception in the laws that allows the judge to bypass the law and let the teenager obtain an abortion on her own -- a process known as "judicial bypass," which Mrs. Clinton has also supported before.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/25/nyregion/clinton-seeking-shared-ground-over-abortions.html?_r=0
She supported the ban and then opposed it because of the restriction. I'm glad she changed her mind, too bad other Dems didn't.
And I know you've been a very vocal supporter of abortion rights. That's one thing we have in common.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)the end of the article you have that little paragraph.
i have scoured the net and i cannot find one instance of her supporting a ban, only her voting against it and speaking out against people that want to ban late abortions.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Q: Are there circumstances when the government should limit choice?
LAZIO: I had a pro-choice record in the House, and I believe in a womans right to choose. I support a ban on partial-birth abortions. Senator Moynihan called it infanticide. Even former mayor Ed Koch agreed that this was too extreme a procedure. This is an area where I disagree with my opponent. My opponent opposes a ban on partial-birth abortions.
CLINTON: My opponent is wrong. I have said many times that I can support a ban on late-term abortions, including partial-birth abortions, so long as the health and life of the mother is protected. Ive met women who faced this heart-wrenching decision toward the end of a pregnancy. Of course its a horrible procedure. No one would argue with that. But if your life is at stake, if your health is at stake, if the potential for having any more children is at stake, this must be a womans choice.
Source: Senate debate in Manhattan , Oct 8, 2000
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Abortion.htm
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)While the Republican turned Independent Jim Jeffords who always supported abortion rights voted nay.
I didn't cut Leahy any slack either.
This crosses party lines and it's wrong to allow any politician to restrict abortions.
I am glad Hillary changed her mind but that doesn't change the fact that she hasn't always been as pro-choice as I like.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)sheshe2
(83,655 posts)Make this an OP Bains!
Please make this an Op.
KnR KnR KnR.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)That sure seems to be the gist of what she was getting at, here:
Clinton Seeking Shared Ground Over Abortions
"We can all recognize that abortion in many ways represents a sad, even tragic choice to many, many women," Mrs. Clinton told the annual conference of the Family Planning Advocates of New York State. "The fact is that the best way to reduce the number of abortions is to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies in the first place."
Leading anti-abortion campaigners, in both New York and nationwide, pounced on Mrs. Clinton as a suspect spokeswoman for compromise and common ground.
Also, it's worth noting that often times these "men" who oppose reproductive freedom, the ones who are writing and pushing the anti-choice legislation in question, aren't actually "men" at all.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Her speech came on the same day as the annual anti-abortion rally in Washington marking the Roe v. Wade anniversary.
Mrs. Clinton's remarks were generally well received, though the audience was silent during most of her overtures to anti-abortion groups. Afterward, leaders of those groups were skeptical, given Mrs. Clinton's outspoken support for abortion rights over the years.
...
"Our focus in the speech was to make sure that she still communicated that she was pro-choice -- she doesn't want to undermine that -- but she also thinks we can have some common ground among all sides and make abortion rare," Neera Tanden, legislative director for Mrs. Clinton, said in a telephone interview.
Before the election, Mrs. Clinton was a visible and public defender of abortion rights, appearing at a huge rally in Washington last spring and denouncing what she called Republican efforts to demonize the abortion rights movement.
And in her remarks, she seemed to acknowledge that this image of her was well known by anti-abortion campaigners while adding that, to her, it did not tell the full story about her views. "Yes, we do have deeply held differences of opinion about the issue of abortion and I, for one, respect those who believe with all their hearts and conscience that there are no circumstances under which any abortion should ever be available," Mrs. Clinton said, going on to assert that even some critics still support abortions in some cases, such as when the life of the mother is at risk.
The senator also made a nod to the values issue on Monday in praising faith-based and religious organizations for promoting abstinence.
"Research shows that the primary reason teenage girls abstain from early sexual activity is because of their religious and moral values," Mrs. Clinton said.
Just in case you get accused of "mansplaining" for posting facts.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Karl Rove was using public opinion against gay marriage as a wedge against our candidates.
The same time she was out there going on about how "marriage is between a man and a woman".
Now, of course, public opinion- driven in many ways by the Millennials that get denigrated in certain quarters here on DU- has done a 180 on the topic and surprisingly enough, so has Hillary.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's great when people finally do what's right. But doing what is right when the polls tell you it's okay, is not a profile in courage. Doing what is right even when it's politically untenable, IS.
http://www.bustle.com/articles/79951-bernie-sanders-views-on-gay-marriage-show-hes-been-a-supporter-for-a-long-time
http://www.queerty.com/32-years-before-marriage-equality-bernie-sanders-fought-for-gay-rights-20150719
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I keep hearing about how "easy" it was for Bernie to oppose the Iraq war and stand up for lgbt rights.
What a crock.
Both times the easy thing to do would have been to give in to the angry mob, to appease the voters who wanted blood for 9/11 and the bigots who hated lgbt people.
And I also keep hearing about a mythical interview that never happened where Bernie didn't say anything about same sex marriage.
Because that proves, somehow, that he was against it.
The conclusion being that what you don't say in a conversation that never happened is exactly the same thing as saying something.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)It's weird. How is it that Hillary supposedly has all this authority on AA or LGBT issues, then?
She's neither of those.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)ZOMG!
That''s nothing like Hillary hiring a Latina to advocate for her.
Or Martin hiring Obama's Hispanic media director to advocate for him.
Let's vilify Bernie for hiring Heather Gautney (who's obviously a traitor to her sex) to advocate for him!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Q: Are there circumstances when the government should limit choice?
LAZIO: I had a pro-choice record in the House, and I believe in a womans right to choose. I support a ban on partial-birth abortions. Senator Moynihan called it infanticide. Even former mayor Ed Koch agreed that this was too extreme a procedure. This is an area where I disagree with my opponent. My opponent opposes a ban on partial-birth abortions.
CLINTON: My opponent is wrong. I have said many times that I can support a ban on late-term abortions, including partial-birth abortions, so long as the health and life of the mother is protected. Ive met women who faced this heart-wrenching decision toward the end of a pregnancy. Of course its a horrible procedure. No one would argue with that. But if your life is at stake, if your health is at stake, if the potential for having any more children is at stake, this must be a womans choice.
Source: Senate debate in Manhattan , Oct 8, 2000
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Abortion.htm
Bernie wasn't the only one who found the video of the PP employee disturbing:
Hillary Clinton said Tuesday that Planned Parenthood has some questions to answer regarding graphic undercover videos that accuse the womens health organization of selling fetal tissue.
I have seen pictures from them and obviously find them disturbing, Clinton in an interview with the New Hampshire Union Leader.
But Clinton, who has collected campaign donations from the people connected with the organization, also praised Planned Parenthoods work, even as she distanced herself from the broader questions surrounding the use of fetal tissue.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/hillary-clinton-questions-planned-parenthood-videos-disturbing-120768#ixzz3kNM01Ged
Bernie also never wavered in his support of Planned Parenthood:
WASHINGTON, July 29 Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) issued the following statement today as Senate Republicans pushed for a vote on legislation to cut $500 million in annual funding for Planned Parenthood:
The attempt by Senate Republicans to cut off support for Planned Parenthood is an attack on womens health. Stripping funding for Planned Parenthood would punish the 2.7 million Americans, especially low-income women, who rely on its clinics for affordable, quality health care services including cancer prevention, STI and HIV testing and general primary health care services.
The current attempt to discredit Planned Parenthood is part of a long-term smear campaign by people who want to deny women in this country the right to control their own bodies.
Lets be clear: Federal funding for Planned Parenthood does not pay for abortions. The vast majority of government funding that Planned Parenthood receives is through Medicaid reimbursements. Cutting that funding will be devastating to the health needs of millions of women who desperately need the quality services Planned Parenthood provides."
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-statement-on-planned-parenthood
Bernie has a better record on abortion, he never supported any restrictions on abortions.
He supported lgbt rights long before Hillary.
He supports a federal minimum wage of $15/hr.
As a woman who supports Bernie I think those differences are important.
You can go on and on about his white male supporters until you're blue in the face, but that won't change those facts.
If they're not important to you, that's fine, but you can't ignore the record.