2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHas Bernie officially joined the Democratic Party yet?
Not meant as flame bait, just if he did, I missed the story. If he hasn't yet, I'm assuming he will.
hack89
(39,171 posts)I would settle for that.
cali
(114,904 posts)And his assistance will be more valuable.
hack89
(39,171 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)of Burlington, Congressman Peter Welch and many dem state legislators. I know he's also helped and donated to dems outside of Vermont.
https://m.facebook.com/sevendaysvt/posts/10153291280691763
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Bernie is not an opponent of the Democratic Party. And he's not Nader. And you know it.
hack89
(39,171 posts)or just on a local quid pro qou basis to further his political ambitions?
He is no Nader, that is true. He is still an Independent, and not a Democrat. He is an opportunist - if he had any integrity he would run an a true Independent.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)He's been backing the Democratic presidential ticket for years, supports Leahy and Peter Welch, the state's Democratic congressman.
But then again, nothing I could say about him would ever be enough for you, because you clearly think, based on your history here, that we should just always nominate the preferred candidate of the party establishment and the rich, no matter what. You probably think that we shouldn't even have presidential primaries anymore...that we should just leave the choice to "the pros"...the people who gave us Mondale, Dukakis, Gore and Kerry.
hack89
(39,171 posts)So you fell in love with a carpet bagger who has no chance without the political party(and it's money) that he has spurned for decades. If he had any integrity he would run as an independent since he is not a Democrat.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Last edited Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:17 AM - Edit history (1)
I just deeply respect someone who calls for what most of us in this party, this country and this world want. There's nothing inappropriate in that.
And Obama(who I supported twice)wasn't the candidate of the rich, but under the influence of Rahm, he pretty much always deferred to them. That's the only reason we still have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, that's the only reason he demobilized the Obama movement by reducing its function to electioneering and nothing else, that's the only reason he's fighting harder for corporate-drafted trade deals than heever did for healthcare and card-check.
Obama made things better, and he's a historic figure just for getting elected, but he squandered the chance to permanently realign American politics and move us towards a negotiation-based relationship with the rest of the world rather than our arrogant, imperial-minded approach to global life.
As to Bernie, he hasn't spurned our party as much as he came to the conclusion that you couldn't be a true progressive and have a long-term future in it. Look at how many toxic compromises Hubert Humphrey was forced to accept over the years, look how disgracefully Eugene McCarthy and his supporters were treated in Chocago, look at how McGovern was lead-piped by the party regulars just for winning the nomination fair and square, look how Jesse was shat upon in '84 and '88, look at how totally disregarded Paul Wellstone was in the Nineties by our party's leaders. Bernie made the choices he made to keep his soul and to do something that mattered-and none of his choices ever actually harmed our party. Why hate a guy who's only crime is committing truth?
If he'd made the choices your candidate made...the decision, over and over, that electoral politics was the only thing that matters,that "just winning the election" was worth giving up half or more of what you believe in, that activists and the powerless deserve no respect while corporations and bankers should get constant deference , nothing Bernie could have done after making those choices could ever have meant anything. He'd have reduced himself to hanging out in Davos with Bono.
If you don't want people like Bernie to keep their distance from this party, why don't you actually try working to make this party a place they can wholeheartedly trust? A place where ordinary people, activists, and the dispossessed are given at least as much of a hearing as CEO's with big checkbooks?
hack89
(39,171 posts)I take it you are not a Democrat either? Too good to wallow in the mud and filth like the rest of us?
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Why should Bernie have been a party-liner all his life when it would have meat standing for less? It;s not like a Humphreyized Bernie would have been better for the country.
The people I listed in that post WERE Dems...and the party treated them all like shit. If this was a party where people weren't asked to partially check their souls at the door Bernie would probably have been in it much earlier.
Were you this indignant about Heath Shuler, a life-long Republican, being forced in as a democratic Congressional nominee by Rahm? And forced in over a progressive who had only lost to the GOP incumbent by 15 votes in the previous election? And then getting in and voting against Obama from the right two-thirds of the time?
What matters is that Bernie stands with us...party identification is a McCarthyite side issue.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Except when it suited his political ambition. And I am suppose to admire him for that? Ok.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)It's about the fact that nobody of national stature INSIDE the party is dealing with the real issues, and that somebody different was needed. Nobody major national Dem is willing to stand up to corporate power. HRC can't be anti-corporate(which you have to be to be progressive)and O'Malley can't be either. Biden? We both know how much we can expect from a
Nothing would be better if Bernie HAD been a Dem the whole time.
Why are you so obsessed with something that only matters to right-wing Dems? That only matters to people who don't want this party to be progressive? It's not as if anything would be better if Bernie had identified with Dems the whole time or if he wasn't running.
hack89
(39,171 posts)He is a carpet bagger - no more and no less.
You fucking insult the millions of loyal Democrats like myself who have spent years in the trenches getting Dems elected to office and wonder why we don't embrace the next in a long line of flash in the pan populist that makes your heart go flutter?
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I'm not talking about rank-and-file types like us...people who have had no real say since 1988 in what this party stands for...
I'm talking about the Beltway types who don't care anymore if anything progressive happens or anything changes at all, or even, really, if we win anything other than the presidency(Beltway Dems are just fine with GOP control of Congress, as they showed by doing nothing to try to stop the GOP takeovers in 2010 and 2014).
The ones whose answer to everything is always "silence the grassroots, move further right and take Wall Street money".
Your candidate is totally in line with them...that's why someone like Bernie had to get in this year.
Without a candidate like that, no issues would even be being discussed and whoever we nominated would still be speaking in front of bleachers full of cops.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)That is all that ultimately matters. We are one the same side.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Sanders has had no, zero, zilch, nada scandals.
Your candidate has had... how many?
hack89
(39,171 posts)you would have a more balanced picture of HRC.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)The fact is she's been involved in a few legitimate scandals.
But, as someone who works in Internet security, I will tell you my take on this email thing is far different than the right-wing or Clinton supporters. I look at it as a failure in decision-making. Entrusting her emails to a tiny Colorado company that kept their servers in a bathroom closet just does NOT look good from a security standpoint. Classified emails or not, an easy-to-hack server that by all standards did not appear to meet minimal security risks is NOT a good option for the US secretary of state. Even non-classified material can be used against someone.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)There's no way way to do so in Vermont since you don't register to vote by Party.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)primaries, so it may be a problem.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Because he will be on the Democratic Party ballot.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Representative Janet Ancel Washington-6 - Democrat
Representative John L. Bartholomew Windsor-1 Democrat
Representative Steven Berry Bennington-4 Democrat
Representative Clement Bissonnette Chittenden-6-7 Democrat
Representative William Botzow II Bennington-1 Democrat
Representative Timothy Briglin Windsor-Orange-2 Democrat
Representative Cynthia Browning Bennington-4 Democrat
Representative Sarah E. Buxton Windsor-Orange-1 Democrat
Representative William Canfield Rutland-3 Republican
Representative Stephen Carr Rutland-6 Democrat
Representative Kevin Christie Windsor-4-2 Democrat
Representative Alison H. Clarkson Windsor-5 Democrat
Representative Joanna Cole Chittenden-6-1 Democrat
Representative James Condon Chittenden-9-1 Democrat
Representative Daniel Connor Franklin-6 Democrat
Representative Charles Conquest Orange-Caledonia Democrat
Representative Sarah Copeland-Hanzas Orange-2 Democrat
Representative Timothy R. Corcoran II Bennington-2-1 Democrat
Representative Leigh Dakin Windsor-3-1 Democrat
Representative Maureen Dakin Chittenden-9-2 Democrat
Representative David L. Deen Windham-4 Democrat
Representative Johannah Donovan Chittenden-6-5 Democrat
Representative Alice M. Emmons Windsor-3-2 Democrat
Representative Debbie Evans Chittenden-8-1 Democrat
Representative Rachael Fields Bennington-2-1 Democrat
Representative Robert Forguites Windsor-3-2 Democrat
Representative William Frank Chittenden-3 Democrat
Representative Patsy French Orange-Washington-Addison Democrat
Representative Maxine Grad Washington-7 Democrat
Representative Helen Head Chittenden-7-3 Democrat
Representative Mary S. Hooper Washington-4 Democrat
Representative Mark Huntley Windsor-2 Democrat
Representative Timothy Jerman Chittenden-8-2 Democrat
Representative Willem Jewett Addison-2 Democrat
Representative Mitzi Johnson Grand Isle-Chittenden Democrat
Representative Kathleen C. Keenan Franklin-3-1 Democrat
Representative Warren F. Kitzmiller Washington-4 Democrat
Representative Anthony Klein Washington-5 Democrat
Representative Robert Krebs Grand Isle-Chittenden Democrat
Representative Jill Krowinski Chittenden-6-3 Democrat
Representative Martin LaLonde Chittenden-7-1 Democrat
Representative Diane Lanpher Addison-3 Democrat
Representative Joan G. Lenes Chittenden-5-2 Democrat
Representative William J. Lippert Jr. Chittenden-4-2 Democrat
Representative Emily Long Windham-5 Democrat
Representative Gabrielle Lucke Windsor-4-2 Democrat
Representative Terence Macaig Chittenden-2 Democrat
Representative Ann Manwaring Windham-6 Democrat
Representative Linda J. Martin Lamoille-2 Democrat
Representative James Masland Windsor-Orange-2 Democrat
Representative Curt McCormack Chittenden-6-3 Democrat
Representative James McCullough Chittenden-2 Democrat
Representative Alice Miller Bennington-3 Democrat
Representative Ruqaiyah Morris Bennington-2-2 Democrat
Representative Michael Mrowicki Windham-4 Democrat
Representative Betty A. Nuovo Addison-1 Democrat
Representative Anne Theresa O'Brien Chittenden-1 Democrat
Representative Jean O'Sullivan Chittenden-6-2 Democrat
Representative Carolyn W. Partridge Windham-3 Democrat
Representative Avram Patt Lamoille-Washington Democrat
Representative Albert Pearce Franklin-5 Republican
Representative David Potter Rutland-2 Democrat
Representative Ann Pugh Chittenden-7-2 Democrat
Representative Barbara Rachelson Chittenden-6-6 Democrat
Representative Kesha K. Ram Chittenden-6-4 Democrat
Representative Herbert Russell Rutland-5-3 Democrat
Representative Marjorie Ryerson Orange-Washington-Addison Democrat
Representative David Sharpe Addison-4 Democrat
Representative Amy Sheldon Addison-1 Democrat
Representative Shapleigh Smith Jr. Lamoille-Washington Democrat
Representative Thomas Stevens Washington-Chittenden Democrat
Representative Valerie A. Stuart Windham-2-1 Democrat
Representative Mary Sullivan Chittenden-6-5 Democrat
Representative Donna Sweaney Windsor-1 Democrat
Representative George W. Till Chittenden-3 Democrat
Representative Tristan Toleno Windham-2-3 Democrat
Representative Catherine Toll Caledonia-Washington Democrat
Representative Maida Townsend Chittenden-7-4 Democrat
Representative Matthew Trieber Windham-3 Democrat
Representative Joseph Troiano Caledonia-2 Democrat
Representative Tommy Walz Washington-3 Democrat
Representative Kathryn Webb Chittenden-5-1 Democrat
Representative Mark Woodward Lamoille-2 Democrat
Representative Michael Yantachka Chittenden-4-1 Democrat
Representative Samuel Young Orleans-Caledonia Democrat
Representative Teo Zagar Windsor-4-1 Democrat
Or, the other half of the Vermont State Legislature?
Please stop spreading mis-information!
Fearless
(18,421 posts)You can obviously run as a Democrat.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I guess people have been pedaling that fiction for so long that they have come to think that it is actually responsive to the question ... which was/is, "Has Bernie officially joined the Democratic Party?"
Here ... I will help him out; if he is so inclined:
http://my.democrats.org/page/content/joindnc
It's as simple as that ... there is no requirement that one be registered to vote as a Democrat, or even that one be registered to vote, at all.
yodermon
(6,143 posts)call him a Democrat?
I think something like, dunno, RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT AS A DEMOCRAT in the DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY carries a bit more weight, dontcha think?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)That's from their Membership page ... so, yeah.
I think something like, dunno, RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT AS A DEMOCRAT in the DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY carries a bit more weight, dontcha think?
No ... as that doesn't answer the question asked ... nor, would it satisfy the letter of some state election laws {EDT:} if they choose/chose to enforce the provision.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)My governor, the Chair of the Democratic Governors Association, must also not be a Democrat since we don't register by Party here either. The arrogance of the Hillarians is probably their most annoying trait...all they know is inside their own little bubbles.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)(a) the Chairperson and the highest ranking officer of the opposite sex of each recognized state Democratic Party;
(b) two hundred additional members apportioned to the states on the basis set forth in Article TWO, Section 5(a) of the Charter, consistent with the full participation goals of Sections 3 and 4 of Article Eight of the Charter; provided that each state shall have at least two such additional members;
(c) the Chairperson of the Democratic Governors' Association and two additional governors, of whom, to the extent possible, at least one shall be of the opposite sex of the Chairperson, as selected by the Association;
http://www.cftech.com/BrainBank/POLITICALMACHINES/DemocraticPartyRules.html
So ... It appears that your Governor is a member of the DNC. And, he is general recognized as being a member of the Democratic Party
http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/politics/democrats-gather-in-bozeman-to-support-bullock/article_47d937f5-12f9-5fd4-8d79-32cdcef2d0d7.html
Actually arrogance is continuing to call someone a "Hillarian", when that person has told your, repeatedly that they support Martin O'Malley.
Another sign of arrogance is one's propensity to, and frequency of, projection.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)All he has to say is "I am a Democrat." I won't even consider him until he does that. I'm not interested in candidates who my party in such disdain they won't declare that, even while seeking it's nomination.
RichVRichV
(885 posts)He showed so much disdain for the party that he refused to run as a spoiler candidate.
Or would you rather him a spoiler?
This way all you have to do is vote against him and primary him. No splitting of the votes once the general rolls around.
And yet you would rather attack him for not sabotaging the Democratic party.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)It's like he's embarrassed to be running for the Democratic nomination.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)I wonder, in your made up scenario, which is worse... A candidate that hates what the party has become or a candidate that IS what the party has become?
Hmm...
I wonder.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Claiming that HRC is a "DINO" is insane. It's the same kind of crap that hear out of the Teapublicans in their efforts to purify their party in a crucible on conservatism. Why the fuck are there Democrats adopting their rhetoric?
Fearless
(18,421 posts)daybranch
(1,309 posts)Has the democratic party joined Bernie? If not I think they will. But then I am a lifelong progressive democrat. It is so great to campaign for Bernie, a democrat we can trust.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)He has stated in the past he does not want to be a Democrat. Why would the Democratic Party join him? That alone should tell you why he has no Congressional super delegates while Hillary has over 200.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Trajan
(19,089 posts)As I also question the validity of your statement ...
Please give accurate citations, including direct quotes and dates, of these statements ...
EDIT: Don't bother ... You're gone ...
cali
(114,904 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)A lady left her post at the VT Democratic party to run Sanders' campaign in NH.
Someone who quit their job at the Democratic Party to work for Sanders ... what are you trying to suggest that "proves?"
cali
(114,904 posts)And sorry I live here. I know. You do not.
MADem
(135,425 posts)you live.
We all know how to read--it's not specific to one state in the nation.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)PatrickforO
(14,514 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Just like here in Washington, there's no registration by party.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Unlike the state you apparently live in some states do not have partisan registration. Which means the only way you can BE a Democrat is to say you are one. Which he has done since he's running for President as one
cali
(114,904 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Surely you took at least one Civics class? If you did, you'd know that each state conducts its own elections, and within each state, each county or parish is tasked with carrying them out.
Tell me why you would think there was such a thing as a "national registration".
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)for him in the caucuses or primaries unless he makes it official.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)they vary by state. I think there are a couple, NH is one, can't remember the other, where he will have to sign a paper declaring himself as a Democrat to meet the requirements for the state ballot.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)in some states, that you can only vote for a person if you intend to vote for them in the primary election or a candidate from their party.
I looked at my state's election laws and attempted to comprehend how they could A) be enforced and B) what, if any, impact it would have and C) threw my hands up and decided I'd just vote in the Primary how I felt like voting and be done with it.
If you can't figure out if you are eligible to vote or not eligible to vote, I'm pretty sure you are in good faith (that's a clause) casting your vote.
FloridaBlues
(3,991 posts)That might be the reason for such low endorsements by his peers both house and senate.
No I haven't read any where that he registered with the party and I wouldn't look for it .
cali
(114,904 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)I believe those endorsements are the politically safe thing to do. They certainly don't affect how I feel about supporting Bernie.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)That's good enough for me, as I am basing my support on issues.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I suspect it is more than that ... How many members of the Progressive Caucus have endorsed Bernie; Hillary has 26 Progressive Caucus endorsement, as of last month.
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/246845-in-house-liberals-side-with-clinton-over-sanders
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Clinton has the endorsements, Bernie does not. Clinton is running an old school campaign where traditionally this stuff matters. Everyone saw her husband lose his shit over endorsements switching from her to Obama. Invoking a spot on their shit list is something most people would want to steer clear of; that's human nature.
Sanders OTOH is running a different kind of campaign. Refusing donations from corporations makes his campaign tight and to the bone. His campaign is blossoming in social media with events organized by local supporters. It's a genuinely people-powered campaign that defies all prior ideas of how a campaign is run.
So, yes, Hillary has endorsements. The question is how much does that really matter. I guess we shall see.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)keep telling yourself that!
But before you do ... why all the gush when Bernie got an endorsement of a Nurse's Union ... and the upset over a Teacher's Union endorsement?
(Your response sounds a lot let the kid denied the ice cream saying, "That's alright. I didn't that ice cream anyway!"
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Pee-Wee Herman as I live and breathe. Not sure why I expected anything more thoughtful, really.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)RichVRichV
(885 posts)They don't count as votes, they don't decide elections. All an endorsement can do is influence someone who respects the person or entity making the endorsement.
If people dismiss endorsements from politicians but put weight behind unions it just means that person respects the unions more than the politician. It's also why who the politician giving the endorsement is is more important than how many political endorsements someone gets.
Some people are affected heavily by endorsements, others give them no credence. Often an endorsement by someone you personally know holds much more weight than a national figure. Hence the grassroots movement.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Thgat's why so many politicians work, so hard to get them.
You don't think members of Congress, including the Progressive Caucus, know Bernie personally?
RichVRichV
(885 posts)such as family and friends. Voters usually don't care who politicians personally know.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)From people that know Bernie, either.
BTW ... Do you know Bernie, personally? Or, do you personally know anyone that knows him personally?
RichVRichV
(885 posts)Forget the candidates for a moment. I'm talking about individual voters. People vote for candidates for different reasons. Usually it's because they like what the candidate has to say and what the candidate believes in. People can also be influenced by who other people that they respect plan to vote for.
Often times it's family and friends that have the most influence, though it can also be national figures respected by the individual voters. Who gives an endorcement is more important than how many endorsements a candidate gets. For example, there are people here who hold Elizabeth Warren's endorsement over the entire rest of congress combined.
The reason politicians want endorsements is because it means more chances to influence people, and because they're competative creatures who like to win at everything. Not all candidates hold endorsements in the same regards.
Ultimately endorsements mean as much or as little as individual voters give them.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Autumn
(44,743 posts)That was one hell of a fucking speech. The Democratic establishment wasn't happy with Bernie, I don't imagine that bothered Bernie one bit.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)The DNC has acknowledged and accepted him as a candidate. He's caucused with and voted with the Democrats for some 24 years. He's the ranking Democratic member on the Senate Budget Committee among many other committees on which he serves. He founded and still participates in the House Progressive Caucus.
AppalachianLeftist
(40 posts)hedgehog
(36,286 posts)on the Primary ballot, so I was curious about possible roadblocks ahead.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I might agree with you.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)He has said so himself.
AppalachianLeftist
(40 posts)I'm 100% fine with that.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Autumn
(44,743 posts)A DIPO
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Bernie's independent status is just as irrelevant.
It's a non issue and a waste of cycles.
AppalachianLeftist
(40 posts)being investigated by the FBI and being excoriated by a federal judge.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)DNC CHAIR STATEMENT ON BERNIE SANDERS 2016 ANNOUNCEMENT APRIL 30, 2015
Washington, DC In response to Bernie Sanders announcement that he will run for president in 2016, DNC Chair Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz released the following statement:
Democrats welcome Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders as the second candidate to officially seek the Democratic Partys nomination for President in 2016. Senator Sanders is well-recognized for his principled leadership and has consistently stood up for middle class families. Throughout his service in the U.S. House and Senate, Bernie Sanders has clearly demonstrated his commitment to the values we all share as members of the Democratic Party.
?
The Democratic Party appreciates the contributions that Senator Sanders, Secretary Clinton, and other candidates will make to a healthy dialogue about the future of our party and our nation. There is a distinct contrast between Democrats who are on the side of middle and working class families and Republicans who are concerned with the very rich and wealthy corporations. Over the next year, the discussions we have during our respective nominating processes will help make that choice clear.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)Good to know; thank you.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)Goodbye
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Yet he will be the Democratic nominee! It's awesome!
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)TheKentuckian
(24,934 posts)Particularly at the highest levels Governors, Senators, and cabinet level appointees. Be lucky to have 25 anywhere in the same class active in politics today.
SamKnause
(13,037 posts)n/t
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Anybody that wants my vote has to EARN IT.
Ron Green
(9,821 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)And Vermont doesn't have partisan voter registration.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)whether Bernie has joined the Democratic Party? That hasn't/didn't stop Patrick Leahy or about half of the Vermont State Legislature from joining the Democratic Party.
jfern
(5,204 posts)He's a member of the Democratic caucus, endorses Democratic Presidential nominees, and has won Democratic primaries before. Unlike the Republican frontrunner, he has consistently supported the party whose primary he's running in for decades.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)It doesn't matter to me at all, other than watch you guys twist yourselves in knots with fallacious arguments.
But it will be equally entertaining to hear the wailing should one of the states enforce they primary partisan membership rules.
navarth
(5,927 posts)"It doesn't matter to me at all, other than watch you guys twist yourselves in knots with fallacious arguments."
Again: what's the outcome you're looking for? Changing minds? Swaying people's opinions?
Or is it what you just said?
jfern
(5,204 posts)So if they excluded him, they'd have had to exclude Bill Clinton and numerous other candidates in the past.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)Sanders did the same exact thing, only difference was he declined the nomination to run as an independent. Sanders caucuses with the Democrats in the Senate, and votes similarly to liberal Democrats. For example, he votes 94% of the time with Baldwin.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)The power of labels, or party identification, is so strong that many would rather support a right wing Democrat than someone who actually represents what the Democratic Party should (and formerly did) stand for. It's like my dad supporting Eisenhower and years later continuing to support Republicans, even though Republicans of today have little in common with Eisenhower.
Party/label takes precedence over issues/values. Sad but true. It's part of that tribe mentality that's seemingly hardwired in us.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)trashing this shit.
postatomic
(1,771 posts)Danger Will Robinson. Danger.
postatomic
(1,771 posts)The paperwork is brutal. Oh, and the edits of everything you've said about the Democratic Party over the last 20 years or so is very time consuming.
Be patient. I'm sure he'll get around to it when he can.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Bernie has campaigned for Democrats including Patrick Leahy and caucuses with Democrats. He is a Democrat. He has declared himself as running in the Democratic Primaries. Has to be a Democrat to do that.
Chafee was a Republican and is running as a Democrat. So, that's the way it goes.
It isn's a problem for anyone. Vermont has its own ways.
Perry Smith
(14 posts)REPUBLICAN Charlie Crist lost his REPUBLICAN Primary so Charlie Decides to Become a Democrat, I dont remember folks really caring about a candidate who was the REPUBLICAN Gov of Florida now suddenly a Democrat with the full backing of the DNC.
So why now the sudden concern for a person who is MORE Liberal and More Progressive then ANYONE Else currently Running for POTUS as a Democrat?
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Perry Smith
(14 posts)to be called out on.
As I recall Sanders has also said many positive things about the Democratic Party too.
I personally don't keep score on tit for tat quotes either of people running for political office I look at what they voted for or against, what policies they support and who gives them money. If they align with what I support they earn my vote.
Is there now a litmus or purity test for membership in the Democratic Party? I do not recall any such test when I joined the Party nor have I ever been questioned about membership when I vote. When did the change occure?
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)As I said in my post above, the power of labels is immense. It matters not that the Democratic Party has moved drastically to the right over the years (some Democrats have the nerve to deny that that's the case, while fully recognizing that the Republican Party has become increasingly extreme). It matters not that neoliberalism is now (and has been for years) the dominant ideology of mainstream Democrats. Consider where various Democrats and Republicans stood on the political compass in 2008: http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2008. And in 2012: http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012.
Just as it doesn't matter to my dad that today's Republicans are vastly different from Eisenhower, who my dad was a big supporter of...what matters is the label ("Republican" , not where people actually stand on issues. Labels hold incredible sway over people.
That said, lefties have to take accountability. As Bernard Chazelle once wrote, "America has lefties but no left." Lefties need to organize locally (take over PTAs, city councils, etc.) and then move outward in order to eventually (it will take a lot of time) lay the groundwork for a truly progressive candidate to win at the national level. Until then, I don't believe someone like Sanders can get nominated.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)as a Democrat (a REAL FUCKING DEMOCRAT) would.
olddots
(10,237 posts)hedgehog
(36,286 posts)full. Enough of the sniping, please!