Since Seattle, many of Hillary's fans have been telling us ad nauseum

[cali]

that Bernie and everyone else shouldn't second guess BLM activists, that we're white supremacists if we don't endorse every word and every action. That's not even an exaggeration. we've been told repeatedly that Bernie has no right to do anything but support them no matter what. Anything else is "whitesplaining". OP after OP and post after post.

But Hillary is different. Their own made up rules don't apply to her. If it was revealed that Bernie spoke to activists as she did, Hillary supporters would be screaming.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/08/18/clinton-tells-black-lives-matter-activists-to-focus-on-ways-to-change-policy-not-change-hearts/

[SonderWoman]

1. The difference in reaction by each candidates supporters is telling though.

Hillary supporters didn't scream and curse at them. Or yell for them to be tazed.

[Comrade Grumpy]

2. Hillary supporters never even saw them. They were in another room.

Unlike Seattle, where they seized the stage and prevented thousands of people from hearing the man they were there to listen to.

Disrupters don't generally get favorable reactions from the people they're disrupting.

[SonderWoman]

4. Online.

A Bernie supporter breaks it down.

[Gman]

18. EXACTLY!

Yet many will say, "Huh?"

[Starry Messenger]

40. This.

[PotatoChip]

45. "Bernie Sanders gets that".

Yes indeed he does! And the more people get to know him, the more they see that he gets it!

Bernie 2016!!!

Thanks for posting, and Welcome to DU SonderWoman!

[sabrina 1]

291. That's what's happening, and it's wonderful to see how people for whom he has fought his

entire adult life are now finding out about him.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

277. As Sanders supporters,

let's get behind this video message, because it is wonderful news. We have, by far, the best candidate, so let's all try to emulate his message of inclusion, especially with BLM and its allies. This is how we are going to win, for America and the world!

[MaggieD]

5. Black people are being murdered and harrassed and jailed

... being polite should not be the priority of liberals on this issue, IMO.

[cali]

8. but they were exceedingly polite and deferential to hilly.

[Bubzer]

66. I wonder if this might be "Hillsplaining"? Is that a thing?

I've certainly seen quite a number of Hillary supporters bend over backwards and sideways to defend her and defame Bernie.

[MaggieD]

74. For good reason

[Ken Burch]

91. What reason would that be?

HRC has spent most of her career being a "law and order" type. She has never, before this year, questioned anything the police did to black people anywhere, and she helped push the party into line behind "broken windows" and "zero tolerance" back in the Nineties...when she could ALWAYS have stood up and said black lives mattered.

She's done nothing to earn deference from blm, and Bernie had done nothing to earn rage from them. He had already met with them and had already embraced their cause before Westlake happened.

[KMOD]

123. "she has never, before this year, questioned anything the police did to black people anywhere"

That is not true.

Research Amadou Diallo.

[840high]

157. What's the good reason?

[MaggieD]

158. Asked and answered previously in this thread, but again

I think the reasons are two fold.

1. She has worked toward listening to and building coalitions with POC for a very long time. They know that. IOW, she is not clueless on this issue like Bernie came off, and her platform already includes several items to address institutionalized racism.

2. Frankly, the previous reactions of Bernie and his supporters have not endeared them to BLM.

[cui bono]

204. And what about her racist campaign against Obama?

I'd say no, she is not clueless, she is ruthless with this issue. Uses it as a political football. Why she gets a pass is beyond me. But then most of the people on DU who are complaining about Sanders and his supporters are Clinton supporters and were attempting to use race against Bernie way before the BLM incidents. It's pretty clear it's only being used against Sanders for whatever reason that may be.

[MaggieD]

206. Oh bullshit

Obama wouldn't have appointed her SOS if she had run a "racist" campaign against him. Try that baseless charge with someone else. I'm informed enough to know it's BS.

[cui bono]

209. You've really forgotten? Oh no, I believe I remember you were very selective with your 'facts'

when you were last allowed to post here.

[MaggieD]

217. You mean the....

... mandatory "you're a Hillary supporter time out" Bernie supporters like to unleash? You mean like the purge DU did on LGBT people after Kerry lost, blaming them for the loss?

Yeah, I've seen it all here. But don't try to pretend that stuff is legit. It's not and never has been. IMO it's an embarrassment to liberal values.

[KMOD]

227. an embarassement to liberal values.

+++++

[cui bono]

229. You mean the...

"you're so damn rude time out"? I'm familiar with that one.

[MaggieD]

232. Oh please - I got alerted on yesterday

Once for factually stating Bernie has passed one consequential bill in 25 years (an absolute fact) and a hide for saying he comes off as an old arrogant white guy. Apparently HRC supporters are not entitled to post facts or opinions about Saint Bernie.

[Ed Suspicious]

257. Check out this old arrogant white guy. I don't grant this, but if I did grant that he only "passed

one consequential bill in 25 years" do you think it might possibly be because his collegues in congress are not interested in challenging corruption and bad policy? Your portrayal of Bernie betrays the reality that he is fighting the system from within, and maybe he might not always be successful at passing legislation, but he is absolutely successful, right now, at changing the conversation. Bernie is trying to change the corrupt establishment. That deserves respect and a little latitude.

[MaggieD]

258. I think it's because he can't build political coalitions

And his policy proposals are unrealistic.

[pennylane100]

263. I would need a few more facts

to google your claims. I did try "Saunders unable to build coalitions" but did not get much useful info but I may have missed some.

[BeanMusical]

270. You have a wild imagination.

Maybe you should write for a tabloid similar to The Weekly World News?

[cui bono]

285. Just post it in the Hillary group. They don't care what kind of nasty things get posted in there.

[seabeyond]

267. what about his sexist campaign against her? it went both ways....

while supporting obama i would have to stand with clinton with the sexism.

why did they both get a pass? we all understand how easy it is to go to the easy insult to get a win. that neither are racist or sexist.

[SonderWoman]

9. Win.

[morningfog]

11. In large part due to the Clinton era drug and incarceration policies.

[stupidicus]

32. ain't that the truth

eom

[oasis]

54. Huh? Please connect those dots. Specificity requested. (eom)

[MaggieD]

75. Hillary is not Bill

[Ken Burch]

92. Silence when the acts are committed equates to defense of the acts.

Until she publicly states that everything Bill did on crime was racist and wrong, she has no right to claim she cares about stopping police terror against African Americans.

[uponit7771]

105. So Laura Bush is responsible for the Iraq war??!!? What political couple EVER had on screen disagree

... ments about policy like you're expecting of Hillary?!

[aikoaiko]

136. "two for the price of one"

[Ken Burch]

137. If Laura Bush were running for president, then yes.

Especially if she had won a Senate seat somehow and voted for the IWR.

[JDPriestly]

212. That isn't the issue. The issue is that Hillary has very little political experience

if she doesn't count her years in the White House. So if she counts the years in the White House when Bill was president as experience in politics and getting things done, she has to take the blame for the mistakes as well as the glory for being there.

Fact is, she is not very experienced compared to Bernie unless you count her years as First Lady as political experience.

[40RatRod]

260. How I see her political experience

I consider her service as a respected senator and Secretary of State as exceptional political experience. She certainly has a good grasp of the big picture.

[uponit7771]

276. +1

[KMOD]

125. but she does care, and has for years.

http://www2.webster.edu/~corbetre/haiti-archive/msg03022.html

[jeff47]

143. So she lied in her book when she said she lobbied for Bill's "tough on crime" bills? (nt)

[MaggieD]

144. She lobbied for three strikes on VIOLENT offenders

And she was damn right. That is why the crime rate has decreased so much since that bill was passed. She did not lobby for mandatory minimums, a drug war, three strikes on non-violent offenders, or for profit private prisons.

[jeff47]

149. Actually, she lobbied for several bills.

That is why the crime rate has decreased so much since that bill was passed.

Stop eating cheese! It causes people to get tangled in their bedsheets and die!!!


Or if you'd like a less snarky response, correlation is not causation. The problem with claiming "three strikes laws" caused the reduction in crime is places that did not have three strikes laws saw the same reduction in crime.

If you'd like a lenghier treatise on the subject, try going here: http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

Just don't get married in Kentucky. It causes people to fall of fishing boats and drown.

[MaggieD]

183. Let's deal with actual facts instead of snark

What do you say? Took me all of ten seconds to find this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/01/02/in-major-cities-murder-rates-drop-precipitously/

[jeff47]

244. It took you ten seconds to find an article that never mentions three strikes laws.

Never mentioning three strikes laws in your article totally proves three strikes laws reduce crime!!

Btw, if you actually read allllllll the way to paragraph 3 of your article, you'd find this:

But they also say the lack of a consensus on what’s gone right has them convinced that crime rates could spike once again.

Meaning they don't know what did it.

So your thorough research just debunked your own argument. Good job.

[Fairgo]

243. You may have saved my life...

Excellent sleuthing Holmes!
That should make those cheese heads in Wisconsin think twice before contemplating a steamy little formage a trois on the old four poster. It's an established fact that ice cream consumption is also tied to violence. I used to think it was people driven made by brain freeze, but now I suspect dairy products.

[BlueStateLib]

180. California Proposition 184, the Three Strikes Initiative (1994) passed by 71.8%

[MaggieD]

185. Which had nothing to do with HRC

But nice try.

[BlueStateLib]

190. At that time that was the mood of the country, just like prop 13 tax revolt that sweep the country

Arkansas1995
California1994
Colorado1994
Connecticut1994
Florida1995
Georgia1994
Indiana1994
Kansas1994
Louisiana1994
Maryland1994
Montana1995
Nevada1995
New Jersey1995
New Mexico1994
North Carolina1994
North Dakota1995
Pennsylvania1995
South Carolina1995
Tennesee1994
Utah1995
Vermont1995
Virginia1994
Washington1993
Wisconsin1994

[MaggieD]

193. Yes exactly

And violent crime was out of control.

[seabeyond]

268. and sanders voted for it.

[Oilwellian]

286. Here’s Hillary Clinton In 1994 Talking Up Tough-On-Crime Legislation

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/times-change-heres-hillary-clinton-in-1994-talking-up-tough#.bvwdGevDN

[totodeinhere]

163. She was right there with him when this was going on. And she did not condemn Bill's racist

comments about voters in the 2008 South Carolina primary.

[MaggieD]

164. Oh come on

Sorry that sounds so sexist to me. Ugh. HRC is capable of having a mind of her own.

Should would talk about how Bernie's wife was fired from the college under suspicion of fraud? Do you really want to go there?

[totodeinhere]

166. Bernie's wife is not running for president. Hillary is.

n/t

[MaggieD]

167. Hillary's husband is not running - Hillary is

So let's not be sexist and pretend she is incapable of her own thoughts - okay?

[JDPriestly]

210. She claims her time in the White House as political experience.

Without it, she has very little political experience compared to, say, Bernie who was mayor of Burlington, Vermont before becoming a member of Congress in 1992.

[MaggieD]

214. Nonsense

She has a much, much better resume than Bernie. And she STILL is not responsible for Bill's policies. She has a mind of her own - like all women. By the way.

[JDPriestly]

221. Please tell me what is her personal resume?

She graduated at the top of her class in college.

She went to Yale law school.

She worked for a corporate law firm.

She was the wife of a lawyer who became a governor and then the president.

She worked for non-profits on children's issues.

She was an aide in the investigation of Nixon.

She was the First Lady in the White House.

She ran for the Senate from NY and won, was it twice?

She was Secretary of State.

Bernie ran for office many time, led student protests, was a member of a national civil rights group at a young age, worked as a carpenter, ran for office and was not elected a number of times, was then elected mayor of Burlington, Vermont, re-elected to that post and then in Congress since 1992.

Bernie has more political experience. Years and years of it. He had a position of leadership and great responsibility for making decisions and working with people as the mayor of Burlington. The people of Vermont have re-elected him again and again. He supported the campaigns of Patrick Leahy and Jesse Jackson among others.

Hillary's experience in leadership is almost non-existent. Four years as secretary of state, and she may have left because of problems with her support of Petraeus' arming Syrian rebels that may have become ISIS. There is some evidence of this. A big scandal about Benghazi and the arming of Syrian rebels may be lurking in her past. We shall find out.

I prefer Bernie's bio. He is a man of the people and has fulfilled his jobs very well. The people of Vermont have elected him over and over by large margins. That is an excellent sign. In addition, he is a leader.

Most important, Bernie, often ignoring the crowd, has shown good judgment on so many issues, often issues on which Hillary showed bad judgment and, when the public winds changed, said she regretted claiming she had "evolved." Yikes. Evolution is great, but we want a president who knows what's right from what's wrong from the get-go, a president who doesn't have to evolve on the issues all the time because she chooses what is morally correct in the first place.

Hillary's resume is weak in so many respects compared to Bernie's that it isn't even funny. And then there is Hillary's rather stiff, insecure speaking style. She is a very nice lady, but not a leader.

[NWHarkness]

239. Hilary's resume, as you've described it

is much more impressive than that of Barack Obama's in 2008.

[Jim Lane]

73. Is the same true of other issues?

Social Security disability is under threat. One DUer posted that s/he would be homeless if the Republicans in Congress got their way. Do you think that being polite should be the priority of Social Security activists?

Nuclear proliferation raises the danger of nuclear war. The Iran agreement is an attempt to address that, but it faces significant opposition. Do you think that being polite should be the priority of people who want to prevent nuclear war?

I'm very concerned about Social Security and about nuclear weapons. Nevertheless, if BLM held a rally, I would oppose anyone who rushed the stage and demanded that one of those other topics be addressed. And when the BLM organizers and participants were upset about having their rally disrupted and shut down, I would not dismiss their anger as a mere demand that people prioritize being polite.

If someone at a Q-and-A session were to address a candidate by saying, "Listen, you ignorant jerk, here's my question...." then that would be impolite. Hijacking a meeting, by contrast, goes beyond mere matters of courtesy.

[MaggieD]

82. I think the difference is Dems get those issues

At least the presidential candidates do. There is nothing to hassle them on about those issues. And frankly, I think Bernie got the brunt of it because he came back with the same old talking point that economic justice = social justice at Netroots. I know that was a huge clue to me that he doesn't get it, which I explained in this post yesterday:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251524437

The other reason of course was his supporters reactions all over the internet after Netroots.

[Ken Burch]

95. Bernie has never EVER said "economic justice=social justice"

The claim that he ever even believed that economic justice would end racism has been totally discredited by now. Don't repeat lies.

[MaggieD]

114. Yep, he sure has

He says it by way of responding to every comment by BLM with his economic inequality pitch. And even folks that worked with him back in the 60s say he has always believed that racism is actually rooted in classism. He's wrong. And people that live it know that.

He's just wrong on that issue, and he showed his true colors in believing that economic equality = social justice at Netroots. As I have pointed out before, ask any LGBT person if economic security led to civil rights for them. It did not. And he just doesn't get it.

[Ken Burch]

138. Saying that racism is rooted in classism is NOT the same thing as saying

"economic equality=social justice". if Bernie believed that, he would never have been an organizer for SNCC, and would never have fought to desegregate student housing at the University of Chicago.

And Bernie has changed his message now to overtly address institutional racism(which he was always implicitly addressing).

You can't seriously think we can end bigotry WITHOUT radically changing our economic system, without addressing the way scarcity and economic insecurity are used to keep people divided along racial and sexual orientation lines. We can make things better, but as long as we have corporate control of life, bigotry can never be defeated.

All Bernie was saying was that we have to deal with the structure. Bernie never said that we shouldn't speak out against and stand against homophobia, against police racism, against hatred and fear of "the Other". Bernie is Jewish...he is part of "the Other"...this, by itself, will always ally him with the victims of bigotry, even if his social democratic principles didn't naturally do that.

[MaggieD]

139. It is if you live the "ism" every day

I just fundamentally disagree with you. Having experienced long years of discrimination even though I was very economically secure I think you (and Bernie) are just fundamentally and irrevocably wrong.

[Ken Burch]

142. Bernie and his supporters(many of whom are LGBTQ)stand with you

in your continued fight against oppression.

Please stop misrepresenting what we have said. We are on your side. If you don't want to support Bernie, fine, but don't accuse him or his supporters of believing things he and us do not believe.

Nobody, anywhere on the left in this country believes "economic justice=social justice". And those in the corporate world who oppose economic justice don't really give a damn about you. Corporations who claim to be gay-friendly are just using lip-service support to your cause in the name of 'branding". it's the Left who will stand with you when no one else does.

[MaggieD]

145. I don't see evidence of that - sorry

Didn't see it in 2005 when they did the big purge on LGBT people here (because they blamed their issues for Kerry losing), and sure not seeing it when it comes to holding the Bern's feet to the fire on the BLM issue. Instead they are all over the internet dissing BLM as if their issue was inconvenient right now (which is exactly what they did with LGBT back in 2004). Trust me, I know that drill. Been there and done it.

[Ken Burch]

165. The Kerry people and the Bernie people aren't the same group.

(Kerry could have been stronger on that issue, agreed-but it was the centrist party regulars who counselled cowardice on that-Bernie and his future supporters played no part in that, IIRC-if you have evidence that Bernie himself was pushing for Kerry to sit on the fence on that one, I'd be interested in hearing it-seriously).

And I take your point about the LGBT purge of '05(which should not have happened)but it's not really fair to blame Bernie for that. And it's fine to ask Bernie to be specific, but do you really think he deserves to be treated as if he is less committed to fighting bigotry than HRC or O'Malley or any other even possible candidate for the Democratic nomination?

Raise the issues...fine. Hold ALL the candidates' feet to the fire equally-just don't single out the most progressive and principled candidate for worse treatment than everyone else. It's not as if Bernie had said "black lives DON'T matter".

blm now has an obligation, as a group, to be just as harsh to HRC as they were to Bernie-since she hasn't particularly shown on this issue and played a major role, in her work with the DLC, in pushing the Democratic Party to take a right-wing "law and order" position on crime...a position that basically involved getting the party to look the other way and sign off on letting the cops do whatever the hell they wanted in AA and Latino neighborhoods.

The issues you have raised here are about the Democratic Party(mainly)and the progressive movement in general(to a lesser degree). It's not as if everything would be fine on the anti-oppression front if only Bernie were out of the race.

[MaggieD]

169. The response is the same though

We have a white people that don't give a shit about minorities problem in this party, IMO.

[jfern]

172. I doubt too many of them supported Jesse Jackson for President

Just saying.

[MaggieD]

173. Jesse was not a good presidential candidate.

I appreciated him for moving the dialogue forward the same as I did Al Sharpton when he ran. But not presidential material. Not an Obama.

[Ken Burch]

176. He was a damn sight better than Mondale or Dukakis.

At least Jesse stood for something.

It never serves progressive goals to refuse to nominate the most progressive candidate. No one to the right of the most progressive candidate ever ends up being better than that candidate would have been.

[MaggieD]

178. Nah he wasn't

We were doomed that year. Awful candidates. But he wasn't presidential material.

[Ken Burch]

182. He was the first Democratic presidential candidate to speak at an LGBTQ rights rally.

You owe him some respect for that.

We needed a fiery anti-right wing resistance candidate in the Eighties...a candidate like that could at least have been competitive.

Instead, Jesse was stopped and then Bill came along and led the party in driving out the Rainbow Coalition and abandoning everything that Jesse stood for(and everything the civil rights and peace movements stood for too, leaving the party standing for nothing at all).

That's why it's always the worst choice to go with a centrist instead of a progressive. No centrist ever grows in office. And no one who takes Wall Street money can ever be capable of fighting for the common people. You're either with the suites or the streets...you can't stand with both. Nobody in the suites wants anything progressive and transformative.

[Ken Burch]

174. Which is a white people problem...not a Bernie problem...

Solving it involves confronting straight white folks(not exclusively men in this case)in general, not singling out one candidate.

[MaggieD]

175. Also a Bernie problem

I'm sure you don't follow my posts, but as I have stated here numerous times, I volunteered for several liberal policy orgs at a fairly high level between 2000 and 2010. In DC, and again at a fairly high level. Like BOD level. Bernie was known as the guy that wouldn't call you back - was not interested.

So color me u surprised that he walked off the stage annoyed by BLM at Netroots. He's a father knows best candidate. He has no interest in what the people he wants to create policy for really think.

Sorry, but that's the truth about Bernie. Bookmark this because if by some ridiculous turn of events he gets elected you will have many more opportunities to see this in action.

[jfern]

179. He's been meeting a lot with BLM activists

Even hired one as his National Press Secretary who speaks before him at events.

[MaggieD]

181. Too little too late

He was dragged kicking and screaming to the issue. I don't see him winning the minority vote at this point. Minorities aren't stupid.

[jfern]

184. So in other words, nothing he does can convince you

And it's not like he only just started to care about racial issues. He got arrested in 1962 for anti-segregation protest. When he was born, many people in the US didn't consider Jews to be white.

This is what wikipedia has to say about the whiteness of Jews.

"Some scholars believe their transition to 'whiteness' took place in the 1960s and 1970s, partly as a reaction against an increasingly apparent 'blackness', although others contend that Jews are still generally excluded from white privilege"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_the_United_States

[MaggieD]

186. Correct.

No one does a 180 in their views in two weeks time.

[jfern]

187. A 180 from what?

Are you going to claim that Sanders never gave a shit about race before? Seriously?

[MaggieD]

188. From his clueless belief that....

Economic equality will solve the problem of institutionalized racism. It's a ridiculous presumption that 99% of minorities know represents a pretty clueless belief. Ask any economically secure LGBT person if economic equality ever, ever conferred civil rights to them.

The answer is a definitive NO. Bernie is very invested in beliefs that just registers as bullshit with minorities. Sorry, that's the truth.

[jfern]

189. He never said that

He didn't think it would solve racism when he got arrested for an anti-segregation protest in 1962, and he didn't think that the day before the first protest when he said this.

"--BERNIE SANDERS ADDRESSES BLACK WHILE WALKING!!!
"...And like everybody in this room, I want to see an America, where when young black men walk down the street, they will not be harassed by Police Officers, they will not be killed, they will not be shot."
"To his credit, to his credit, to his credit, President Obama did something extraordinary the other day, he had the courage to go to a Federal jail and talk about the absurdity of a criminal justice system, in which if we don't change it, one out of four male African-Americans born today will end up behind bars. That is not the America we believe in. And that's why, that is why, we believe that it makes more sense to invest in Jobs and Education-not Jails and Incarceration."
- Bernie Sanders at the Iowa Democratic Party Hall of Fame Dinner, July 17th, 2015"

[MaggieD]

191. The hell he didn't

All you have to do is watch his response to BLM at Netroots to know what he really believes.

And even the folks that worked with him in the 60s say he a,ways believed racism was rooted in classism. He's just clueless. Probably because he insulated himself in a 95% white state and has steadfastly refused to meet with minorities over his 25 years in office.

[jfern]

192. You are entitled to your opinions but not your facts

I posted facts, and you ignored them.

[MaggieD]

194. You didn't post any facts

Look, he told BLM at Netroots that economic equality would solve their problem (which is complete clueless BS) and then he walked off in annoyance.

And you think he deserves the minority vote? That just makes me laugh. Sorry.

[jfern]

197. LOL, what?

Fact 1: He was arrested for anti-segregation protest in 1962.

Fact 2: The day before the first protests, he said

""--BERNIE SANDERS ADDRESSES BLACK WHILE WALKING!!!
"...And like everybody in this room, I want to see an America, where when young black men walk down the street, they will not be harassed by Police Officers, they will not be killed, they will not be shot."
"To his credit, to his credit, to his credit, President Obama did something extraordinary the other day, he had the courage to go to a Federal jail and talk about the absurdity of a criminal justice system, in which if we don't change it, one out of four male African-Americans born today will end up behind bars. That is not the America we believe in. And that's why, that is why, we believe that it makes more sense to invest in Jobs and Education-not Jails and Incarceration."
- Bernie Sanders at the Iowa Democratic Party Hall of Fame Dinner, July 17th, 2015""


It's obvious that Sanders has made the unforgivable sin of running against your preferred candidate, but that doesn't change the facts.

[MaggieD]

198. Don't care what he did 50 years ago

And neither do most minoritiy voters now. You apparently ignored the feedback from #berniesoblack.

[jfern]

199. And you don't care what he said the day before

the protests? Seriously? You're hopeless.

[MaggieD]

200. What did he say prior to Netroots that you think I missed?

Please elaborate.

[jfern]

201. This was from the day before the first protest

He's clearly saying that police and the justice system are racist against black men. And he said this in lily white Iowa.

"...And like everybody in this room, I want to see an America, where when young black men walk down the street, they will not be harassed by Police Officers, they will not be killed, they will not be shot."
"To his credit, to his credit, to his credit, President Obama did something extraordinary the other day, he had the courage to go to a Federal jail and talk about the absurdity of a criminal justice system, in which if we don't change it, one out of four male African-Americans born today will end up behind bars. That is not the America we believe in. And that's why, that is why, we believe that it makes more sense to invest in Jobs and Education-not Jails and Incarceration."
- Bernie Sanders at the Iowa Democratic Party Hall of Fame Dinner, July 17th, 2015"

[MaggieD]

203. But zero policy proposals to enact change

ZERO. Except his clueless one size fits all policy prescription of fixing income inequality for middle class white people.

Even my 23 year old son who desperately wanted to love Bernie can see that.

[jfern]

208. Sanders has a lot of policy on racial justice right here

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

And he's working with people such as DeRay Mckesson to improve it.

Meanwhile, Hillary has nothing on racial justice policy.

[MaggieD]

256. Now he does, because BLM demanded it

But Bernie's supporters for the most part seem really pissed that they held his feet to the fire.

[jfern]

282. Sanders has policy and Hillary doesn't

Which refutes what you said about Sanders not having policy.

[Vattel]

254. good work. when proven wrong, change the subject

[MaggieD]

255. I'm not changing the subject at all

Clearly you do not understand what BLM is trying to tell Bernie. They want real solutions to the issues.

[Vattel]

265. Yet another lie.

He has promoted community policing, for example, since he was mayor of Burlington. What amazes me is that people refute your lies, but you just keep on telling them. I think this whole thing is just a game for you. A very ugly game, by the way.

[MaggieD]

269. What is it with Bernie folks calling people liars?

Why not be civil and understand people are entitled to a different opinion than yours?

[cui bono]

207. And that's the problem right there. A politician's record is one of the most important things there

is to judge them by. It's absolutely ridiculous to not care what he's been doing for 50 years. Clearly a partisan position.

[MaggieD]

211. But in his case it's old cluelessness

Even the folks that knew him back then say he was a,ways wrong on the issue and was convinced racism was rooted in classism. He was wrong then and he is still wrong. And it just proves that 50 years of evidence has taught him nothing.

[cui bono]

213. Oh please, now you're just making shit up again.

Just like you used to do about the TPP when you were allowed to post here, way back then.

The fact that Hillary supporters can't help but attack one of the best representatives the people - ALL people - have ever had tells you how desperate and threatened they are by him.

[MaggieD]

215. No, I'm not

Minorities don't support him for very good reason. And it's not because they are stupid or uniformed like some of Bernie's supporters like to claim.

[cui bono]

216. Minorities do support him. Again, just making shit up. Talking points R us.

Now you elevate it to smearing the supporters as well as the candidate. Please continue, let's see just low you will go with your lies.

Wanna pull out the white supremacist talking point? That's a real doozy, don't want to pass that one up do you?

[MaggieD]

218. Show me a poll where minorities support him

I'll wait.

[cui bono]

222. Polls don't matter if the candidate doesn't have the name recognition of their opponent.

You know very well that the 'minorities don't support Sanders' is a talking point. It's what is being used in an attempt to smear Sanders. It's very prevalent on DU where there is a small and vocal group of PoC who are Hillary supporters and believe that anyone who doesn't agree with them are 'outliers', as if PoC are a monolith. We all know they can think for themselves and don't need someone on DU to call them names when they disagree with them.

Used to be a time when PoC were not supposed to be thought of as a monolith but when it comes to trying to smear Bernie, suddenly it's all the rage. The fact is that as more people get to know Sanders, more people support him, no matter what racial/ethnic group they belong to.

Time for bed... goodnight.

[MaggieD]

223. LOL - polls DO matter

You're starting to sound like the "skewed polls" Romney people.

[cui bono]

224. No, it's called name recognition.

Google it.

At this point the poll is merely a popularity contest. You like polls? Look at how fast Bernie has been rising in them. That proves my point above.

Really going nighty night now.

[MaggieD]

225. LOL - so minorities are just stupid or uninformed?

He's been campaigning for 4 months. Time you guys put that canard to rest as an excuse for why minorities don't support him. They aren't uninformed and they are not stupid. Sorry.

[cui bono]

226. That's not what I said, but go ahead and sling more shit.

You are the one claiming minorities are a monolith. So they can't think for themselves? I say yes, they can, and they are smart enough to make an informed decision. Unlike you I don't believe that they all think alike and can't think for themselves.

As a general rule, a large percentage of Americans don't even think about a presidential candidate until a very short time before the actual election. Look at how few people even vote, then take a small percentage of that and you'll get about the number of people who are even tuned into the campaigns right now.

But I know you won't bother to think about it. You'll just LOL and lie about what I said again. Have fun with that. Geez, Hillary supporters are so nasty.

[MaggieD]

228. You implied it

With that they don't know who he is shtick. The real facts are this - his name recognition with minorities is increasing but his minority support in polling is going no where. Try to deal with reality here.

[cui bono]

230. Read my post for once. It's all stated very clearly.

No need to put words in my mouth. I've supported PoC on this site a hell of a lot, so don't even try slander me on that.

[MaggieD]

231. Facts are facts

His name recognition is increasing with minorities but his support is not. You're entitled to your opinion, but facts are facts. You've stated "polling doesn't matter" but it does. And it's a common refrain from people whose candidates are polling poorly. It was the rethug mantra in 2012 as they lost to Obama.

[cui bono]

284. Clearly you didn't read my post. n/t

[jfern]

219. Minorities aren't a monolith

Some support him for some reason, some don't for other reasons, and many never heard of him.

[MaggieD]

220. Okay well you go ahead and ignore them

Good luck winning with that indifferent attitude about minorities. See you at the losers table.

[BeanMusical]

271. "He's wrong. And people that live it know that. "

So you're talking in the name of all AA now?

[MaggieD]

272. Minorities

[BeanMusical]

275. OK, so you are speaking for all minorities now?

[Vattel]

119. Another lie. He never said that economic justice = social justice.

[Jim Lane]

128. OK, make it the TPP then.

I care a lot about TPA and TPP -- this year I've probably posted here more about trade than about any other issue. And the Dems do NOT unanimously get those issues. The head of the party is the President who's pushing for these bad ideas. O'Malley and Sanders have been clear in their opposition. Clinton previously gave enthusiastic support to TPP and then tried to straddle the whole subject.

So, let's say BLM is holding a rally about the murders of unarmed blacks. Or let's say Clinton is holding a campaign rally where she dares to talk about some issue(s) other than trade. What would your reaction be if a coalition of activists from the AFL-CIO, the Sierra Club, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, and Doctors Without Borders stormed the stage and demanded that the BLM rally or the Clinton rally be halted in its tracks so that there could be a discussion of trade?

I personally would consider that grossly improper. I would agree with the substance of the protesters' position but I would strongly disagree with the method. And I would consider it disingenuous, to say the least, for such a protester to respond by saying that being polite was not the highest priority.

[MaggieD]

131. No, she didn't give enthusiastic support

She gave qualified, adult speak support. Her book actually contains qualified support for it, and hit the shelves in June of 2014. So she has held the same position since she started speaking about it as a private citizen.

She has continued to discuss the pros and cons to it in this campaign.

https://m.

I appreciate that she talks to us like adults on the subject instead of Bernie's knee jerk no with no explanation of the pros and cons.

[Jim Lane]

148. Your statement is inaccurate and evades the issue

As to the first point, I'm not going to waste my time recounting Clinton's triangulation on trade issues. I don't think mere facts would convince you of anything.

But let's just assume you're right that she's never changed her position or even shifted her emphasis. Your final sentence, with a totally unsupported and unsupportable smear of Sanders -- hey, wait, I thought the Clintonista mantra was that everyone should just be positive about their candidate and eschew criticism of other Democrats? I guess it means eschew criticism of some other Democrats, or more precisely one other Democrat. Some intra-party criticism is OK.

Putting that digression aside, your last sentence admits that Clinton and Sanders have some differences on trade issues. That eliminates the distinction you tried to draw in #82.

The real point is that you continue to evade a simple question: How would you react if a rally you approved of -- a BLM rally or a Clinton campaign rally being examples I raised -- were subjected to the same "impolite" behavior as the O'Malley and Sanders talks at NRN or the Social Security rally in Seattle? Would you conclude that such conduct was perfectly OK if the cause was important? If the rally organizers reacted negatively, would you dismiss their concerns as relating to merely being polite, which shouldn't be a priority? I suspect not. My guess is that, if a BLM leader or Hillary Clinton were prevented from speaking, you'd be outraged.

You have the right to continue to refuse to address the issue, but I have the right to infer that you're applying a double standard.

[MaggieD]

150. It's not a black and white issue

What you call "triangulation" I call having enough respect for the voters to take the time to articulate the pros and cons to us as if we're actually adults who deserve more than a sound byte answer. She is very much like Obama that way.

She does that on most complex issues, and that is leadership, IMO.

[Jim Lane]

170. So you and I differ about leadership -- and about disrupting other people's speeches

Yes, on trade, Clinton has articulated pros and cons. She's said clearly and unequivocally that she's for a trade deal that promotes American jobs, and against one that impairs our national security.

You can call it respect. I call it cynical politics. She's contented herself with vague pro-and-con generalities that everyone from Ted Cruz to Bernie Sanders would agree with.

The usual defense of Clinton is that TPP hasn't been finalized yet. It's disingenuous to suggest that the former SoS has no idea what will be in the deal. Even more to the point, TPA (the fast track bill) was the subject of close Congressional votes, and its exact text was known. We saw leadership from O'Malley and Sanders, who opposed it. We saw leadership from Obama, who pushed hard for it; I disagree with his position but he didn't equivocate. While all this was going on, Clinton was sitting on the sidelines. Leadership would have been to use her considerable influence with Democrats in Congress. Her problem was that using her influence on behalf of one side would have alienated the partisans on the other side. I think she stayed quiet until almost the very end, then made some vague noises of concern.

Anyway, whatever one thinks about the specific examples of trade, Social Security, and nuclear weapons, it appears that you're OK with the disruption of a rally if you personally consider the disrupters' cause important enough. I hold a more process-oriented view. People should be allowed to speak (subject to obvious considerations of time, place, and manner). Shouting people down and/or effectively preventing them from speaking is wrong. That applies whether the disrupters voice a good cause (stop the murders of unarmed blacks) or a bad one (deport all Muslims). It applies whether the event disrupted is an O'Malley appearance at NRN, a Sanders speech at a Social Security event, a Clinton rally, a Walker diatribe against unions, or the latest Trump eruption.

[MaggieD]

171. You're not paying attention

She has said if it contains this she is for it, and if it doesn't she is against it. Which is directly in line with her CAFTA comments and subsequent no vote on that trade agreement.

Sorry, I didn't read any further into your post since you are so obviously misinformed on her positions on trade.

[Jim Lane]

240. Alas for Clinton, I *am* paying attention

First, your comment refers only to TPP. With regard to TPA, she knew exactly what it contained, or she could have known if she had bothered to read the bill. She didn't even need her preferential access to information as a former Secretary of State. Any mook with an internet connection could download the text.

Second, even as to TPP, her position was much more ambivalent. To take the notable example of ISDS, she didn't say that if it contains this she's against it. She said that "we should avoid some of the provisions sought by business interests, including our own, like" ISDS. That's very far from saying it's a dealbreaker. Of course, ISDS was in the draft when she praised TPP as the "gold standard" of trade deals. There is zero chance that it will not be in the final agreement.

She also said "We should be focused on ending currency manipulation...." The USTR and the Secretary of the Treasury both said that currency manipulation was not in the TPP and would not be -- that the US wouldn't even seek it because it wouldn't fly. So Clinton was taking populist positions on issues that weren't actually up for grabs in the TPP. Contrary to your implication, she did not say that she would oppose any trade deal that included ISDS or that excluded currency manipulation.

[sabrina 1]

160. Which is why it is obscene for ANYONE to use this decades long issue as a political football.

Where were you all when Ferguson protesters desperately needed support? DU had so little interest that those of us who tried to keep the focus on them after the media left, for the past YEAR had little luck trying to get OPs noticed. Causing the best source here to leave and go where people WERE interested, me included.

So to those who suddenly discovered Black Lives Matter during election season, glad you finally did, hope it means continued support over the next number of years because it's going to take a long time to get the justice that this country is denying to its own citizens.

And that respect for BLM wasn't in evidence when African Americans were insulted and angry at Hillary after the horrendous murders in Charleston when she was visiting a Black church there and showed a total lack of knowledge that there was even movement.

Bernie supporters didn't USE the issue because most of us take it way too seriously but several OPs in defense of Hillary were posted, claiming it was a minor issue and she meant well.

So sorry if people, like me, who have been engaged in this issue for years, are not taking all this sudden 'concern' very seriously.

Just stop using something as serious as this to try to get some political gain. Sanders has been fighting for this since before he was in politics. And thankfully minorities are learning about his record, and yes, it DOES matter to them.

[MaggieD]

161. Sorry, I emphatically disagree

It mostly certainly IS a political issue. An extremely important one. Let me remind you that Hillary supporters do not have mind control over Bernie supporters. And many Bernie supporters most certainly did take to every online forum by storm and diss the shit out of BLM. HRC supporters did not.

And he ignored them for too long as well. I'm sorry you don't like the optics, but they are what they are.

[davidpdx]

246. Thanks for speaking up on this Sabrina

In my opinion it is no use reasoning with people who want to believe Sanders and all his supporters are racists. People like that are close minded themselves.

[sabrina 1]

288. Lots of people speaking up about it now. People hate this kind of negative garbage

and it's clear it has backfired completely. Same old garbage, and look where the country is. As for those who keep trying to drag it out, it isn't even about believing anything, I eg, never saw these people anywhere around when the Ferguson protests were badly in need of support. The sudden 'concern' was remarkable and didn't go unnoticed.

[davidpdx]

289. True

I am particularly disappointed in a few of the Clinton supporters who were Obama supporters the last time around who have been perpetuating the garbage you are talking about.

There is a particular group of them that go around causing problems and they get 4 hides and are put on vacation. Then the group has their funeral for said person turning them into a martyr saying they were silenced. One of them (I'll only say that you are very familiar with) has 4 hides and the person's account was suspended and then reinstated with the 4 hides. Apparently Skinner is over riding some jury decisions because this group is whining about it.

[KMOD]

287. Where do you get your news from?

And that respect for BLM wasn't in evidence when African Americans were insulted and angry at Hillary after the horrendous murders in Charleston when she was visiting a Black church there and showed a total lack of knowledge that there was even movement

That is just so blatantly false. HRC has been a big supporter of the Black Lives Matter Movement. She was very critical of police killings of blacks, before the The Black Lives Matter movement erupted.

She referred to the happenings in Charleston as Racial Terrorism.

[Rockyj]

196. GO F YOURSELVES...

I am a LIBERAL & Native American & we have the highest rate of YOUTH SUICIDE and VIOLENCE against our Native American women than any other RACE! We also have the highest rate of incarceration of our Native American men! http://qz.com/392342/native-americans-are-the-unseen-victims-of-a-broken-us-justice-system/ WE ALSO have the highest rate of military enlistment! http://loripotter.com/2012/05/28/a-warrior-legacy-native-americans-in-the-u-s-military/
The two women WHO DISRESPECTED an ELDER & ALLIE by not allowing him to speak can go F-K THEMSELVES! They have tarnished Black Loves Matter movement by their total disrespect of a WELL KNOWN ALLIE, SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS, & I NO longer support Black Lives Matters as a RESULT! No big deal I just quit sticking up for #BLM them online!

[sabrina 1]

290. First I am sorry for the shameful history of this country regarding Native Americans.

And I know it is ongoing and those who are so suddenly 'concerned' about racism, only when they see a political opportunity are reprehensible.

I could not agree more with you regarding the shameful way those people acted towards someone who has fought for Civil Rights his entire life.

[Vattel]

118. Isn't it sad that you have to point out something so obvious?

[Politicub]

153. There were Hillary supporters in the other room, too

There was an overflow room because the main hall was at capacity. That's where the BLM activities were.

I'm sure you would have heard about it if there were calls by that group to taze the BLM activists a la the Seattle rally. The reason you didn't is that it didn't happen.

And Hillary met with the protesters face-to-face and had a discussion with them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. That is because they were not even in the room

Which is a serious problem. And activists were not happy with her at all either. They told Harris Perry as much yesterday on the Rachel Maddow Show.

[hootinholler]

10. LOL

They never got in to the event, so when would Hillary supporters have the chance?

That's pretty typical of you based on what I've seen you bringing up since you joined DU.

[SonderWoman]

13. See post 4.

[hootinholler]

29. Has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted.

That you think it might says volumes about how you operate.

[jwirr]

22. Do you honestly think that it would have been different if Hillary had

been the first one? And the second? As it is I understand that they even gave Hillary prior notice they were coming.

[KMOD]

37. Black Lives Matter is going to keep their message in the spotlight,

where it belongs, all through the election cycle. It has people finally talking about it, and that is a wonderful thing.

I personally wouldn't care who they directed their message to first. It's the message, and just the message that matters, not whose feeling might be hurt by it.

[jwirr]

70. In case you have not been reading my posts from the first protest in

Last edited Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:01 PM - Edit history (1)

NN I have been saying that their protests are to keep the issue front and center because it needs to be fixed not forgotten.

I was surprised when he was also their second protested event after they had promised to interrupt other candidates but then to it was easy to understand - Bernie was the only one with big crowds and the media attention they need. Plus he does not have the security that Hillary has.

I am glad you do not care about anyone's feelings. There are four white people in my family and 21 minorities - black, Native American, Asian, Hispanic. I have news for you Black Lives Matter in my family as well.

As to the protest to Hillary - it was nothing at all like the protest that happened in the other three attacks.

[KMOD]

83. Don't misquote me.

I don't care if some people have hurt feelings about Black Lives Matter's message. I never said I didn't care about anyone's feelings.

[sibelian]

98. "I don't care if some people have hurt feelings"

"I never said I didn't care about anyone's feelings"

Sorry?

[KMOD]

101. OK, here's what I originally said.

"It's the message, and just the message that matters, not whose feelings might be hurt by it."

[sibelian]

108. And whose feelings are hurt by the concerns of black people being brought to the

foreground, KMOD?

[KMOD]

112. have you been reading DU?

apparently a lot of people are upset that Senator Sanders, in their minds, was disrespected.

That seemed to matter more to them than the killing of black people. So much so, that they are still talking about it today.

[sibelian]

113. I don't see how that translates into

being disinterested in the oppression of black people.

[KMOD]

116. Not sure what you're getting at here.

I'm not understanding your translation.

[sibelian]

234. ?

I was talking about what I thought was your translation. (?!)

I don't see how disagreeing with the tactics of an activist organisation places one beyond their *goals*.

[jwirr]

262. That is what I was reading as unconcern for hurt feelings. Over and over

again BLM keeps saying that it does not matter what white people did in the past.

But to some of use the past is what changed to whole direction of our lives. We got it very fast - the first time some a-- let us know that we were breaking every rule in the books by interracial marriages. And it was not always coming from white people.

I am very sensitive about this issue. This white person is on your side I have been since the 60s. Before that I was a lot like many white people - I did not even know a problem existed. I only knew about my own white community. Raised in white schools who taught little or nothing about real history and shocked when I got to college and became involved in the AIM (American Indian Movement). Was present at some planning meetings and at Wounded Knee 1972.

One thing about the murders today though is that everyone should know - there is one in the paper or on the tv every day. No one has any excuse to not know.

[zeemike]

71. Actually I do care.

It seems to me it should be directed to people that can actually do something about it...like the president or AG.

But the reality is that they can never get close to those people and we all know it...so they chose someone without security and money to prevent them. Who is also the only one likely to do something about it.

[KMOD]

84. The President and the Attorney General are well aware of the movement.

They have had pressure as well.

As long as they keep getting their message out, I'm happy.

[zeemike]

99. Ignored messages are worthless.

They have the power to act now...not wait till 2017.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

76. What's that message: polite to Hillary, assholes to Bernie?

[KMOD]

86. Black Lives Matter

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

89. All lives matter, but you failed to answer the question.

Chanting BLM only confirms that you consider acting like an asshole to Bernie, while being polite to Hillary, is alright.

IMHO, of course.

[KMOD]

93. The message is Black Lives Matter.

The message is stop killing Black people.

This is not about Hillary or Bernie.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

100. The message apparently is "Act polite to Hillary, but act like an asshole to Bernie."

Pretending otherwise is disingenuous.

Now if one was to say that BLM really wasn't represented in Seattle, and the real BLM group is actually polite, then I might be inclined to believe them.

Also, real reform of law enforcement is need since too many African Americans are getting fucked over by criminal LEOs.

[KMOD]

102. Well, I hope they keep on speaking out, until people get the message.

Many seem to still be missing it.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

110. I haven't missed it. If you have ever read any of my posts in I/P about the Palestinians

then you would see all to well that I DO get it.

That's why I say all lives matter.


I hope BLM does keep on speaking out since things really need to change, or the could get really ugly for all.

But if this overall conversation keeps on deteriorating with the cheerleaders saying that BLM chased Bernie from the stage and #bowdownbernie, while acting really polite to *Hillary, then it will only make some not want to listen very much to the message.

This isn't White Liberal Supremacy talking.

It's just common sense.


*It's entirely possible that the BLM group that met with Hillary didn't want a repeat of Seattle, and understand that the delivery of the message is just as important as what is said.


Peace, and Black Lives Matter.

[AgingAmerican]

152. When they grabbed the microphone to 'speak out'

They called the Democratic audience 'white supremacist racists' and when they had a chance to make a statement to the press they flipped them off instead. How do those actions further the "Black lives matter" message? They don't. Their mission was to throw stink bombs and try to ruin Sanders campaign event.

[KMOD]

154. The audience was shouting, "Tase them" among other things.

but sure, keep on believing that their goal has to do with Bernie Sanders personally, as opposed to black people being killed by the police.

[AgingAmerican]

156. When you call people filthy names and throw stink bombs

That's the reaction you're gonna get every time.

[MaggieD]

202. Black people are being murdered, harassed and jailed daily

All in the name of racism. The time to be "polite" about these issues is long passed. Bernie's focus prior to having his feet held to a very hot fire by BLM was basically on middle class white kids. Minorities are just sick of that shit and I don't blame them.

[jeff47]

250. So they were wrong to be polite to Clinton? (nt)

[MaggieD]

252. Hillary hasn't ignored them

[jeff47]

253. Neither did Sanders.

Heck, he actually let them talk instead of interrupting them like Clinton did.

Sanders is apparently scheduling another meeting with them. When is Clinton's next meeting? If she's not ignoring them, surely she's doing something to talk with them, right?

[jfern]

31. They would have

if they had shut down her speeches twice rather than politely having a scheduled meeting with her.

[Armstead]

264. I am absolutely convinced if the same thing had happened in reverse.....

the same bullshit would have happened. Except it would be a mirror image with the Clinton camp responding in the same way Sanders' supporters did, and the Sanders supporters (some anyway) doing what the Clinton supporters ere doing.....

(Not counting the people who actually looked at it outside of candidate support in terms of the larger issue.)

[MaggieD]

3. Actually, she listened to them and reacted.....

.... in a way that most liberals (who think black lives do indeed matter) would want her to react. She didn't ignore them; she didn't walk away in disgust or annoyance. She listened and reacted respectfully and vowed her support.

HILLARY CLINTON: I’m not telling you–I’m just telling you to tell me.

QUESTION: What I mean to say is– this is and has always been a white problem of violence. It’s not– there’s not much that we can do to stop the violence against us.

HILLARY CLINTON: Well if that—

Q: And it’s a conversation to push back—

HILLARY CLINTON: Okay, Okay, I understand what you’re saying—

Q: Respectfully, respectfully—

HILLARY CLINTON: Well, respectfully, if that is your position then I will talk only to white people about how we are going to deal with the very real problems—

Q: That’s not what I mean. That’s not what I mean. But like what I’m saying is what you just said was a form of victim-blaming. Right you were saying that what the Black Lives Matter movement needs to do to change white hearts—

HILLARY CLINTON: Look I don’t believe you change hearts. I believe you change laws, you change allocation of resources, you change the way systems operate. You’re not going to change every heart. You’re not. But at the end of the day, we could do a whole lot to change some hearts and change some systems and create more opportunities for people who deserve to have them, to live up to their own God-given potential, to live safely without fear of violence in their own communities, to have a decent school, to have a decent house, to have a decent future. So we can do it one of many ways. You can keep the movement going, which you have started, and through it you may actually change some hearts. But if that’s all that happens, we’ll be back here in 10 years having the same conversation. We will not have all of the changes that you deserve to see happen in your lifetime because of your willingness to get out there and talk about this.

(Inaudible)

HILLARY CLINTON: Well I’m ready to get out and do my part in any way that I can.

[cali]

12. lol. propaganda

[MaggieD]

24. So what should she have said.....

.... that you wouldn't later come back and claim was "propaganda"? And do you believe Bernie really cares about the issue given that it took him so long to actually pay attention to BLM? If so, why is what she says propaganda, and what he says is not?

[stupidicus]

34. indeed, How much intelligence and/or integrity is required to

accept that a confrontation of the kind Bernie suffered through v the one Hillary survived here are two different things in more ways than one?

It's BS like this that makes the HC supporter charge that "they have a distaste for Bernie because of the company/supporters he keeps" a big dose of projection, doesn't it?

Give me a few pottymouths over the gross dishonesty that has permeated their ranks from top to bottom anyday....

[Juicy_Bellows]

42. IMAX is looking into their projection methods for pointers.

I agree, I'll take angry foul mouthed over willful blindness.

[markpkessinger]

283. +1 n/t

[ibegurpard]

17. I thought her answers were good.

But she sure as hell wasn't listening. More like waiting to spring with her own opinions. And the transcript you just posted was the least flattering part of it...
"Well, respectfully, if that is your position then I will talk only to white people about how we are going to deal with the very real problems— "
That actually made me cringe.

[MaggieD]

19. Like I said, it was a brutally honest dialogue

.... and that's a very good thing.

[Kip Humphrey]

44. Wow, per BLM's own video, Hillary trying to tell BLM what to do! Shades of a white supremacist, yes?

[MaggieD]

49. And here was her reply.....

- "HILLARY CLINTON: I’m not telling you–I’m just telling you to tell me.

[sibelian]

236. Yeah, that contradicts itself, doesn't it?

It doesn't actually make any sense.

[L0oniX]

124. Supremacist control issues.

[tularetom]

80. Wow, she's for goodness and against badness

That Hillary Clinton, not afraid to take a courageous stand, huh?

What a crock of utter crapola.

[840high]

159. ++++!

[MisterP]

7. it's only "telling Black people how to protest their oppression" when Sanders does it

after all, they've always said they care only about the who, not the what

[MaggieD]

21. She was giving take it or leave it advice

And she specifically told them, "tell me" what we need to do.

We know that although OWS was very successful in raising issues about income inequality and making candidates focus on it, but they could have had more impact if they were clear on a legislative agenda. It petered out for lack of that. Sounded to me that she was advising them on that fact. AND pledging to work with them on the agenda they create.

[AlbertCat]

59. And she specifically told them, "tell me" what we need to do.

She hasn't ANY ideas on what to do? You can only figure out what to do if you are black???

Vague, lame pandering.

But that's OK "cause it's Hillary! That white guy better not try it!

[MaggieD]

64. Certainly she has ideas....

And she has spoken up about them, like eliminating mass incarceration, funding urban schools better, getting rid of voter suppression tactics.

But she was respectfully asking them to tell her what else is needed; what else she can do.

IMO, Bernie is doing a lecturing tour. HRC is doing a listening tour. I like her approach better.

[AlbertCat]

69. Bernie is doing a lecturing tour.

Anti-intellectualism strikes again!


(Is Hillary listening to her corporate donors? too)


Listening or pandering tour?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

79. Hillary is telling them to "tell her."

[JoePhilly]

14. Bernie is handling this much better than some of his supporters.

[cali]

16. lol.

[JoePhilly]

36. Just a true statement.

Bernie isn't losing his mind coming up with conspiracy theories over this.

He appears to be trying to step up his game on this point. Which is smart.

Some of his supporters however ... and its not most, its some ... just some of the most angry and vocal folks (many of the same folks who've attacked Obama from day one) ... have found a new horse to ride.

[AlbertCat]

62. Some of his supporters however ... and its not most, its some ... just some .....

So, what's your point? That they are just anrgy people who really don't care about Sanders, they just hate....what? The candidate the press likes? You like? Your grandmother likes? What?

Some Sanders supporters are the nicest, most thoughtful and practical, no BS people I've ever met.


The same good and bad can be said for Hillary and even "some" GOP supporters. Is this guilt by association?


The WORST thing I've heard all season is "Hillary deserves it!" "It's her turn!". Not very democratic, is it? Horrifying! or should be if you're an American.

[DanTex]

15. The big difference is that Hillary supporters aren't going around social media bashing BLM.

[cali]

20. had a BLM supporter shoved her and screamed in her face, I'd bet my life they

would freak the fuck out.

[MaggieD]

23. She is respectful to them and they are respectful to her

Their just might be a reason for that. The HRC campaign did not cancel a meeting with them, and avoid them for weeks like Bernie did.

[99th_Monkey]

94. The very first thing out of Bernie's mouth, when screamed at, was "Black lives, of course, matter!!"

This was the FIRST time he was shouted down at Netroots and had the mic grabbed from him,
meanwhile Hillary was a no-show, and O'Malley said "all lives matter".

And this was totally out-of-the-blue, before anyone (except a select few inside a tight Netroots/BLM
inner-circle) had any idea BLM was going to storm the stages of candidates for office and scream them
down. I doubt Bernie (or O'Malley for that matter) knew for sure who these people even were or why
they were screaming abusively at him; and needed a few days to look into it and sort it out a bit.

I'm happy all this happened --despite the rudeness-- because I know Bernie's a smart guy with a long
and distinguished record on race-relations and civil rights; who's actively welcoming BLM's message and
moving campaign furniture around to accommodate them, including hiring Symone Sanders a BLM
activist as his campaign Press Sec.

I'm not worried about Bernie, but I do worry about people who distort what happened to try to malign
Bernies reputation unjustly, just to lift up their own candidate. It's disgusting.

[DanTex]

30. Meh, she gets protested all the time, it comes with the territory.

Haven't seen many people freaking out about it.

When it happens to Bernie, his supporters go berserk, because the whole idea is "how dare anyone possibly challenge Bernie on anything". Also, the BLM protests of Bernie hit a nerve. It was obvious even before that that Bernie prioritized economic over social issues, but Bernie supporters pretended it wasn't true and lashed out at anyone who pointed it out.

[MyNameGoesHere]

261. well Sanders is kind of frail

I can see why folks are worried about someone yelling at him or pushing him. Although I still haven't seen where he was shoved and threatened. Maybe he was fearful of being pushed.

[BeyondGeography]

72. Totally fair point. This shouldn't be too hard for people to accept

But, annoyingly, it is.

[MaggieD]

26. Correct

I know plenty of HRC supporters and I highly doubt any of them would have bashed BLM matters. Most of the HRC supporters I know feel BLM has very valid points. But maybe that's because I live in Seattle.

[Bluenorthwest]

249. The problem is that many of those same supporters have strong records of bashing LGBT activists

for using disruptive tactics and several have also written condemnations of the tactics themselves, under any and all circumstances. Now they support disruptive tactics, just as they now support Hillary when many of them spent the 08 cycle saying Hillary and Bill were ultra racist. There were DU threads that equated them to a lynch mob.

If you'd like I can link to threads in which DU attacks AIDS activists, who advocate for saving lives of people with HIV. Every month over 100,000 African people die of AIDS. DU has been critical of such activists. Think about that for a moment. From the CDC regarding the United States:
Blacks represent approximately 12% of the U.S. population, but accounted for an estimated 44% of new HIV infections in 2010. They also accounted for 41% of people living with HIV infection in 2011.

Since the epidemic began, an estimated 270,726 blacks with AIDS have died, including an estimated 6,540 in 2012.
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/basics/ataglance.html

So here is how DU has reacted to AIDS activists bothering Obama:
" But, it's counter productive to their wants to heckle Democrats.
These gay/HIV activists are NO DIFFERENT from the dumbass white trash Christian conservative construction worker making a minimum wage who continues to vote for Republicans. Both are working against their better interests."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9422322#9422340

"What I can't for the life of me understand is why AIDS
(or are they really) would heckle President Obama. It seems to the Democrats and Obama have done more for them then the republicans ever did. If they want to heckle go to the republicans who voted down all the bills and advantages they would have received.

You know why they don't, because they can't get into the republican rallies. And if they did, like the protesters against McCain they will be hustled out of the place and arrested. SO they show up at the rally of the one person who tried to help them. sometimes I think that when people do things like this they make matters worst for themselves. People with sense know that the Democrats are not responsible and I for one would surely be upset at a group that targets the people that tried to help and let those that caused the bills and efforts to be blocked, obstructed and denied.

They are as stupid as they come."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x479791

[KMOD]

25. Black Lives Matter

I endorse them, and I support them.

This conversation is long past due.

[MaggieD]

27. Ditto!

[steve2470]

233. +1 nt

[leftofcool]

237. +1

[AtomicKitten]

28. #HollupHillary vs. #BowDownBernie

seems legit

[aspirant]

33. Her handlers disrespected BLM twice

First interjecting that she has somewhere else to go, hurry it up and then intervening to drag Hillary away.

You don't have a extensive discussion if one side is on the way out even before the demandS are presented

[Phlem]

35. K&R!

The big question is why have Obama, Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch become off limits. They have the immediate facility to do something about it now. Also Bernie is supposed to fix what Obama couldn't or wouldn't do?

I would think all three above should be on top of this right now.

WTF? We're moving forward and not looking back?

[JoePhilly]

38. BLM protested Obama in March.

[Phlem]

41. Pretty speech.

[JoePhilly]

46. Standard response.

Bully Pulpit!!! Pretty Speech!!!

Bully Pulpit!!! Pretty Speech!!!

Bully Pulpit!!! Pretty Speech!!!

What's new.

[treestar]

127. Yep!

[KMOD]

39. They are not off limits.

There has been immense pressure on them since Trayvon Martin. Holder and Lynch have and are actively pursuing Federal investigations in many cases.

Bernie was not addressing it until they spoke out. Now he is. That's a good thing, no?

[Phlem]

43. Of course that's a good thing

but I don't believe it was an issue he would have just ignored. He's got the longest record of civil service than any of the other politician running.

[KMOD]

47. Yes. But when a segment of his supporters were

actively searching for every black person they could find on twitter, to lecture them on his long civil rights record, that's just not enough. Black Lives Matter want to know what will be done now. How the current issues of Black people being killed by police will be addressed now.

[Phlem]

56. OK then.

Good luck.

[JoePhilly]

48. His record doesn't matter ...

... when his primary message was economic inequality, as if it encompassed social justice.

As the other person notes, Bernie understood, and has been adjusting his message. Which most people expected. He's not going to ignore it.

His supporters however, some of them, would prefer to push the issue aside. Dismiss it. Which does nothing to help Bernie.

[Phlem]

55. Sure thing Joe

I've heard this a bajillion times already and completely disagree. You have a great day.

[JoePhilly]

58. Feel free to disagree ...

... that does not upset me one bit.

Doesn't help Bernie either.

[Phlem]

60. whatever Joe.

[demwing]

67. "does not upset me one bit"

But it sure seems to command your focus

[JoePhilly]

77. As a democrat ...

... I've been trying to help other Democrats who claim they want "real reform" get where they want to go.

Attacking Obama for 6 years has not helped. I tried to explain to those demanding Obama needed to be primaried in 2012 that they need to focus on 2016. They ignored me.

I told them that they'd bve screaming about Hillary if they did not build up alternatives. They did not. And now they attack Hillary and her supporters. Its is not working.

They were screaming for Warren. She did not run. Bernie runs, and they flocked to him like groupies.

These are not people who think about political strategy. And the only way you develop winning tactics, is by understanding strategy.

To win the primary, Bernie needs to get the votes of (a) African Americans, (b) existing Hillary supporters. Those groups overlap.

Attacking BLM isn't going to help Bernie. Bernie knows this. Some of his supporters do not.

So why am I not upset ... because I'd happily vote for either Hillary or Bernie.

[AgingAmerican]

106. His record is everything

His message isn't "economic inequality encompasses social justice' You made that up.

Her supporters have to make things up. That says it all.

[ish of the hammer]

122. economic inequality is and does encompass social justice

police kill mostly black people because blacks are generally poorer and less able to defend themselves legally having to depend on a starved and overwhelmed public defenders system. To say nothing of law suits for police brutality, illegal detention, etc. It's way easier to get on the black side of town and pick on a black guy driving a 15 year old car with a busted tail light. As old granddad used to say "Life is a shit sandwich, the more bread you have, the less shit you eat."

[jwirr]

81. Yes, that is a good thing. He has also presented a voter holiday bill in

the Senate and that is very important for BLM or it should be. Getting control of their own communities is going to take voting. This is one step. It would stop the long lines in minority communities on election day and help workers who work during voting hours to vote.

Not to mention his plan to change things that Symone Sanders, a criminal justice expert, helped him create.

Those things did result from BLM protests and from the fact that both him and O'Malley did listen.

[KMOD]

87. Attempting to get people to listen, is all they can do.

I'm glad they are doing it, and I'm glad people are listening.

[jwirr]

259. So am. What is going on here is worse than the lynchings that took place

years ago because it is being done by people who are supposed to protect us. They use the law (petty crimes) against us.

[Politicub]

50. Supporter rage about Bernie being interrupted is still playing out

This event is no way in the past, no matter how much Bernie's supporters want it to be.

And neither he nor his supporters get to dictate the terms that BLM activists or anyone who is oppressed have to follow in order to get heard.

The protest generated action. Bernie was forced into a corner and ended up addressing racial justice more directly. I believe his response was incomplete and half-assed, but at least he said something.

Just as Senator Clinton needs to answer for her role in failed policies that disproportionately affect the black community, Senator Sanders must stop living in the past and hanging all hope on the fact that he showed up to march in favor of voting rights. Black Lives Matter is about the here and now. It's about what's happening today, and what needs to be done moving forward.

It has that in common with other protest movements. The past is past. What matters now is what is proposed from a policy perspective and not some ambiguous slogan.

Progressive rage at Black Lives Matter's tactics reminds me of the rich's rage at the poor for demanding economic justice. Surely Bernie's supporters can understand that.

[Maedhros]

140. Not so much angry at BLM, but at DU posters who co-opt BLM's message to use as an attack vector

on Bernie Sanders. Mostly because these posters know that saying Bernie doesn't care about racial justice is absolute bullshit, yet they propagate the meme anyway for partisan advantage.

I should be more understanding because, given the piss-poor progressive bona fides of their chosen candidate, this is all they have to try and prop up Hillary over Bernie.

[Politicub]

151. Oh, I'm sure he cares about it

But caring and doing something about it are two different things.

[Maedhros]

205. He's done far, far more than you have.

Makes you look a bit silly for sitting in judgement of the man.

[Politicub]

245. I should hope he has done more than me. He's a senator

and that's part of his job.

What's sillier, standing in judgement of a politician, or standing in judgement of BLM based on an in-your-face protest action?

[Maedhros]

266. As I said, if you would have read and understood my post, is that I stand in judgement

of posters like YOU, who co-opt the BLM message to score race-card political points against Bernie.

When posters such as you make claims that Bernie is tone-deaf on racial justice issues, or "doesn't do enough", you know that you're just throwing shade - Bernie's record on those issues so far exceeds that of your candidate, it leaves you no option but to try and besmirch the man.

Sad, really.

[Politicub]

280. I'm used to people standing in judgement of me without knowing anything about me.

Been part of my upbringing from an early age. Tends to come with the territory if you grow up gay in a small town and sit in church with fire and brimstone laden sermons piled on your head three times a week.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, though you may not realize it at the moment you are dealing with adversity.

So judge on.

Bernie and his supporters would do well to learn from Seattle and not be so short sighted. What you can learn from how the BLM activist interruption was handled is far more valuable than fainting at any act that cracks Bernie's thin veneer of perfection.

It's only going to get worse especially if Bernie should become the democratic nominee. At that point, my support will be for whoever our eventual nominee is and I'll do the yeoman's work of defending Bernie, if he should win. I just don't support him in the primary.

Hillary has proven she can take both listen and take the heat. Bernie failed the first test, but you can bank on many more tests of his mettle to come.

[Maedhros]

281. I have all the information I need to judge you on the issue of posting nonsense:

your posts themselves.

You continue to attack straw men.

[Trajan]

51. I've tossed every one of those posters in the brig

... My DU feed has been immaculate ever since ...

[winter is coming]

57. I'm keeping a few around for the comedic potential, but that's about it.

Sooooo very desperate, and we haven't even had the first primary.

[Maedhros]

141. I'm to the point that I just laugh at them, because they are so petulant and so pathetic.[n/t]

[OKNancy]

52. She gave a good answer. As Dr. King said:

"you can't legislate a man to love you but you can make it illegal for him to hang you"

[misterhighwasted]

53. Reposted at 3:10, 3:40, & 4:26

Ad nauseam is correct

[George II]

61. I can't even get into what Sanders followers have been telling us "ad nauseum", whether true or not.

And when did those who are supporting and campaigning for Hillary Clinton become mere "FANS"????? That's is an offensive characterization.

How would you feel if Sanders followers/supporters were referred to as "groupies"?

Come on, you can make your point without using insulting and offensive characterizations.

[cali]

65. of course you can't, George.

And ive been called so berniebot twice in so many days.

[Autumn]

111. George you must have several Hillary supporters on ignore if you don't see what they refer

to Bernie supporters as. "groupies" is a mild one.

[forest444]

63. That's all good and well - but the lady wasn't even a BLM activist!!!

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/08/blm-activist-who-shut-down-sanders-is-radical-christian-sarah-palin-supporter/?ref_widget=trending&ref_blog=lovejoyfeminism&ref_post=parenting-without-god

[libdem4life]

68. I'll consider this a Real Phenomenom when they start disrupting Republicans

demanding respect, personal interviews, media time, et al. Not. Going. To. Happen. Anytime. Soon.

That, to me, shows what it is all about. Anti-Liberal. And who could be in on that?????

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. Hmm they have already done that

http://reportingsandiego.com/2015/08/12/blacklivesmatter-interrupt-jeb-bush-in-las-vegas-nevada/

I know, I know, even thought the LATimes and a few major outlets covered this, it was just one news cycle. We are still on Sanders, and to a point on HRC

[libdem4life]

88. Thanks, I guess. Maybe we'll just get to the point

where the candidates sit in an office and campaign by video, or on TV. It could be the ending of the personal appearances and would be a lot cheaper. I know I would not risk all the money spent on a campaign tour if this was the result.

Just a thought...

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. We have been here in US politics before

but I could very sell see that. Think of this... last week I was watching the Sanders campaign stop in Los Angeles on one window, and had the Ferguson protests on the other. Yup, a spit screen, and no CNN needed.

We are close to that point I think

[libdem4life]

97. So many "sacred cows" up for grazing or slaughter...quite a time in history.

Just read about O'Malley trying to break to the outer edges of the throes of the traditional Democratic control, Bernie already being there by design, and get "unsanctioned" debates going.

Going to need lots of popcorn for this election cycle!

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. Well I was working on a small piece on protest

and it is becoming a good old fashioned essay. I might do this as a serial at the paper, or for god sakes, just do Kindle, and the rest of them. Self publishing. It would be the first for Reporting San Diego... but there are days that this happens.

We are living at a very special, and scary, moment in history.

[asjr]

115. This OP Wow. you all took the bait.

[libdem4life]

132. The bait ??? Waiting with "baited" breath for the hook.

[libdem4life]

130. I'm really getting that...wow.

[seabeyond]

85. i work really hard to call sander supporters, supporters. or omalley suppoerters, supporters. or

clinton supporters, supporters. respect. not fans shills loonies crazies cult or anything else. my fellow dems are supporting our democratic candidates.

it isnt a sports events of fans.

[KMOD]

96. Aren't you an O'Malley cheerleader?

I agree. It's strange to see supporters addressed as fans, shills, etc. I use supporter/s as well.

[seabeyond]

107. yes, thank you. could not remember the names. cheerleader is a big one. ya, omalley here.

that would be... omalley supporter to you,

[KMOD]

109. .

[Android3.14]

104. The term, "whitesplaining", is offensive

Anyone who uses the term deserves all the blow back it brings.

[libdem4life]

134. Amen.

[Politicub]

247. This post sounds like something you would see on a conservative site

It fits in with the notion of dressing a certain way means you're more responsible for getting raped, wearing baggy pants gives people a license to discriminate against you, or if you're a soft spoken boy it is your fault you were bullied in school.

[Android3.14]

248. Prima facie evidence indicates the opposite

I have noticed, however, that posters who use the term, "whitesplaining", will add further insult to injury by accusing people who point out the vile racist nature of the term as also being conservatives, adding further evidence that the purpose of the term is to insult people rather than engage in any reasoned solution to the expressed problems of racism.

[GitRDun]

117. This is another swing and a miss...but I'm getting used to them

BS never had an obligation to endorse every word and every action.

His mis-step was a failure to properly demonstrate an understanding of and engage with the movement. He's made some strides by unveiling new policies, but continues to muddy the waters with the apology retraction.

In your link, HRC clearly understands the problem, offers suggestions, and volunteers to help. I guess one can argue she's "failing to take responsibility" for what went on in terms sentencing guidelines decades ago and that means she's defying BLM. I struggle to see that as a true defiance; she did offer a rational explanation as to why those laws were passed, she was not involved in passing them, and former President Clinton has admitted they were a mistake.

Now, just so you don't forget I like Bernie, a little BS soft shoe!

Love that Bernie! ain't he fun! got those Hil-bots, on the run! lol have fun

[MaggieD]

133. Bingo

Very well stated. I agree completely.

[sabrina 1]

120. Ignore t he whole thing, it is a shameful use of a serious issue that Sanders has been

involved in for decades, while all the 'concerned' were nowhere to be found.

I have no time for people who use the race card, and besides, it has completely backfired, more AAs are joining Bernie's campaign every day, and all that 'concern' if it were real, would be over by now.

That's how you KNOW when something is nothing more than a political ploy.

They cannot attack Bernie on the Issues, so they make stuff up, he keeps on climbing while they are grasping at the remnants of the latest political ploy while the people are listening to the only candidate who doesn't play dirty political games with serious issues, who focuses on the issues, because he CAN, because his record is that good, he doesn't need to try to distract from the issues.

[Vattel]

121. Beautifully said

[libdem4life]

135. Yep...seems like the good ol' MSM eagerly awaiting/creating the next kerfluffle.

Thankfully Bernie just moves on.

[MaggieD]

168. The race card?

Wow, just wow. Never heard a liberal say that in 35 years of voting for liberals. Just wow. Houston, we have a problem.

[treestar]

126. Don't listen to them

Why worry about what other supporters say? And they won't all think alike, either. Why focus on the ones who say the worst things?

[Vattel]

129. Yes, the hypocrisy is stunnng.

[NCTraveler]

147. Might want to take a cue from Sanders.

Thankfully he is better at this.

[GoneFishin]

155. It's a campaign tactic to bash Bernie. They co-opted an urgent and important cause, and they

have cheapened it into a campaign bumper sticker for Bernie's attackers.

Crawling around in the weeds with them is a waste of keystrokes.

[SoapBox]

162. Thank you Cali.

Bernie will never, ever be able to do anything correct for these bashers.

And, we supporters seem to be the same...racists and white supremists.

It's about the only meme they have and it's disgraceful and disgusting.

[BlueStateLib]

177. But it was you that brought it up, over and over

[MaggieD]

195. Ironic - isn't it?

[eridani]

235. One candidate is accessible to the public, and the other is not

Which events will therefore be easier to disrupt? No conspiracy necessary to explain what is going on.

[MisterP]

278. but there's such a GAP in the reaction: for Seattle there was constant breast-beating about how

Last edited Wed Aug 19, 2015, 04:26 PM - Edit history (1)

the crowd objecting to being called Klansmen only proved OA's point, and that Sanders fans had to shut up and listen for once instead of racisting all day, and we got dozens of posts about how AAs feared for their lives, and even more posts that it didn't matter that OA studiously kept itself from learning anything about who they were protesting and that their positions (or accusations against other AAs) didn't matter

Clinton stonewalls BLM and then tells them how to do their job and--where's the outrage? where's Thom Hartmann asking for serious self-examination? where's #KneelHillary?

[leftofcool]

238. Hillary listens, Bernie walks away.

It is as simple as that. Now, Bernie says BLM is "just another group."

[NCTraveler]

241. "That's not even an exaggeration."

Not only is it an exaggeration, it's a complete fabrication. Just like your post about her being a poor campaigner. The trend you are on is more transparent that you are aware.

I am glad you have evolved with respect to voting for her in the general. You have really stepped up your attacks since that evolution.

[1StrongBlackMan]

242. Yes ...

that Bernie and everyone else shouldn't second guess BLM activists, that we're white supremacists if we don't endorse every word and every action.

That IS an exaggeration ... bordering on a lie. No one has said that ... except those, defensively and/or for partisan purposes, building straw men.

[Android3.14]

251. I seem to recall members of BLM calling those unhappy with their behavior as racist

I think it may have happened on a stage in front of cameras in which highly offensive people did exactly what you are calling a lie.

[Buzz cook]

273. So you didn't watch the video?

In which Clinton told the BLM activists that they were the ones that would have to propose solutions; that she (Clinton) couldn't do anything on her own because they (BLM) were the ones most intimately involved in the problem and thus best able to arrive at solutions.

[RoccoR5955]

274. I guess what they are saying is

IOKIYAHK!

[Sunlei]

279. Not to long ago, it was President Obama who said, "He could have been my son". I remember

republicans all pissed off at Obama for that statement.

Someone search, what did Mrs. Clinton and Senator Sanders say or do about that National interest story?


Mrs. Clinton, stood up with lots of statements-

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=trayvon+martin+Clinton


Sanders, not much to find

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=trayvon+martin+Sanders