Bernie supporters: #blacklivesmatter activists are NOT the enemy.

[geek tragedy]

They are activists, and part of what activists do is make powerful people (yes including Senators running for President) uncomfortable.

The most important thing for us as Sanders supportersto do?

LISTEN.

Then,

LISTEN some more.

Accusing them of being a Soros-funded conspiracy, or stating that you no longer care about the cause of police violence against black people, because they got in Bernie's grill, does not discredit them. Or telling BLM activists they should be out protesting the TPP instead. Or that MLK Jr. would disapprove of what they were doing (!!!!)(and yes all of these statements have been uttered in the past 24 hours here)

It feeds the perception of Sanders' supporters being insular white people who don't like black folks talking back.

That is NOT a perception that is going to help erode Clinton's big lead amongst Latinos and African-Americans. Despite her record not being as good as Bernie's.

By the way, "read about his record" isn't going to cut it either.

If you want to help Hillary end this thing on Super Tuesday, by all means keep this shit up.

Otherwise, stop, listen, and then listen some more. it's the candidate's job to win voters over, and it's the work of his supporters to help him do that.

That means wooing them, listening to them, addressing their concerns, not lashing out at them when they become inconvenient.

[Betty Karlson]

1. Good analogy from another thread:

try not to see economic injustice as the disease, and racial inequality as a symptome

Try to see one as a virus, the other as a disease - dependent on one another, but needing different treatment (like HIV and AIDS).

[AgingAmerican]

5. One cannot be properly addressed without also addressing the other

They are not mutually exclusive.

[Betty Karlson]

13. That's the whole point.

PoC feel as if some Democratic candidates believe that both will be addressed if we try to cure one. That is not the case, but when you are riddled with two diseases, "trust me I'm a doctor" isn't going to cut it in terms of allaying your concerns.

[jeff47]

31. Given the enormous numbers of BLM supporters who argue against me on that

it is not the point.

[Betty Karlson]

113. My guess is they argue against a reasoning that SEEMS

to be based on the 'cure one, solve both' side of the argumentative spectre.

[jeff47]

118. Nope, they start with that, I point out I said both, and they keep going with one then the other. nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

53. here here!

[AOR]

55. +1

for about the 10,000 time it has to be said.

[Fred Sanders]

2. Seperating those who genuinely want to discuss issues, like both Bernie and Hillary say, and are, should

be an easy call on DU...but why is it so hard?


On Mon Jul 20, 2015, 01:51 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

Black Lives Matter should be protesting Obama and Holder who are responsible 4 this mess, not Bernie
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026992064

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

Saying RW shit about Obama and Holder better be hidden.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Mon Jul 20, 2015, 02:03 PM, and voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Attacking the President, Attny. Gen. as pretense for defending US black people? Who could buy that? Then poster attempts to tie it all to Bernie? Nasty, right-wing stuff. Not for D.U.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Rather than hiding anything, I think that discussion is a better way of dealing with any issue.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you.

[1StrongBlackMan]

3. +1,000,000 n/t

[Indepatriot]

4. CTFO already about this NRN protest.

Bernie is handling it just fine. This will only make him a STRONGER candidate come primary time. Watch.

[geek tragedy]

7. Bernie will figure it out, or he won't. A lot of his supporters clearly do not get it.

Clearly.

For example, stuff like this:

Why doesn't one of them (BLM) run for the nomination?

Or are they only content to muddy up the announced candidates?

I was sympathetic to their movement until the Netroots debacle but when I saw their hysterics and bullyboy tactics - ugh!

Seriously. Someone wrote that.

Here.

[Scootaloo]

51. "I was sympathetic to their movement until..." aaaaand cut

[msongs]

6. protests are a good thing. brings some pep and fire to otherwise dull events like

politicians regurgitating the same old stump comments. plus they are entertaining. and a good learning tool. better to have people in your face where you know what they really want and are than dealing with putin who hides his real intentions.

[geek tragedy]

8. if a candidate learns the right lessons such encounters are invaluable. nt

[appalachiablue]

16. Towards the end of his program today Thom Hartmann stated that the NRN organizer knew

about the BLM but Sanders and O'Malley weren't informed. The host also told Bernie on stage his speech was to be cut short by 15 mins. Thom reported the info. and didn't take sides. Everyone realizes the issues and importance of the BLM group or should.

[geek tragedy]

19. I've seen the claim about NRN organizers being in on the disruption, but haven't seen

any evidence of it. Interesting story if true.

[appalachiablue]

38. I see how BLM would want to come on and be spontaneous, and letting many others

know in advance could have made the guests more sensitive, or OTOH uptight, on edge. Yet pols and public speakers are familiar with disruptors. But the sloppy mgmt. and no moderation are what I object to as far as how this went, for the sake of BLM and the guest speakers.
Last night there was a brief post and clip here I read about Bernie speaking to activists the next day ?, showing him standing with a few people in a restaurant/coffee shop type place. He asked them what they wished. The film clip was so short and not clear, and the post had only a couple comments. One that I can recall was basically -- don't believe that B. cancelled, totally blew off the planned meeting them as claimed. And I wasn't dreaming! but cannot find the post now. This issue now and so much going on-

[Scootaloo]

9. I'd love to listen to them.

Unfortunately all the white regressive motherfuckers who hate Bernie with the flaming passion of a thousand suns are drowning them out worse than BLM drowned out Sanders.

And I have no plans to tug my forelock and humbly shuffle into the back so a entitled wealthy white conservative asshole can tell me what black people think and how what they think means i'm a racist for not supporting another entitled white wealthy conservative asshole that the first one is campaigning for.

To listen to what BLM is saying, i follow them on Facebook (sadly, twitter makes everything involving my eyeballs hurt badly) I do not, and will not take for granted that some smug shit with a ^H next to their name, who has been expressing nothing but rabid hatred towards the left for longer than the campaign season is going to be their official spokesperson.

[geek tragedy]

11. you've been very thoughtful and good on this.

for one, you haven't given the people with that avatar ammunition to use.

BLM is not a political football to be used as part of a primary campaign, and it's rather disheartening to see it get treated that way by both Sanders and Clinton supporters.

[Scootaloo]

22. I'm sure i could be better

You don't know how much stuff goes into a text box, only for me to delete.

BLM is not a political football to be used as part of a primary campaign, and it's rather disheartening to see it get treated that way by both Sanders and Clinton supporters.

See, yes it's trite to say "they started it." Ideally, one goes "yes, that's true, but we shouldn't join in with them." The problem is that, to continue the football metaphor, we're sharing a field with these people whether we like it or not, and if we don't play ball, they're just going to kick goal after goal with that football.

I want to see Sanders own this. To sit at the table, and eat this issue like a plate of churros. And I have no doubts that he will. The only thing is, the dude does have a pretty long "warmup period." That is, he takes a while to get started on something, as anyone who watches his speeches already knows. He's a methodical thinker and speaker, who clearly wants to say exactly what he means, as he intends to say it... which means that he's not exactly the most agile speaker or campaigner. He doesn't need to be usually, since once he gets going, he's a fucking landslide.

...But he's facing a counter-campaign that is almost the opposite. Clinton's campaigning isn't well-known for veracity, thoughtfulness, or even promoting Clinton. it's about taking any and all opportunities - even bullshit ones, especially bullshit ones - to try to destroy any competition.

There are two adages that are very representative of the Democratic primary campaign this season.



and

[geek tragedy]

26. I know Bernie will get there eventually on the politics of it.

He's already there on the policy.

But his supporters, here and on Twitter?

God save me from my friends. I can protect myself from my enemies.

[Scootaloo]

30. The internet is full of people who can't make arguments

it's a skill, after all. And it's super easy to be tone-deaf in text. Even more with anonymity.

[geek tragedy]

33. I think the bigger problem is that there are a lot of people who

just don't listen.

Also, the partisan warfare dynamic seems to take hold of everything. If you're not with us, you're against us.

[Scootaloo]

36. Well, again, that's a symptom of the medium

if say, you're kicking my butt in an argument, all I have to do is click a bookmark and suddenly I'm looking at doge memes (Such argue. Much distract. So evade. Wow!) and can just come back in an hour or two to present my same bad (losing) argument in a whole new post on a while new thread.

[artislife]

87. Great quote! nt

[appalachiablue]

43. Great quotes!

?w=378&h=261

[Scootaloo]

47. I... would avoid going Godwin. Just gonna say, yeah?

[appalachiablue]

65. I don't know Godwin. If you mean Goebbels, the Nazi progagandist minister may look extreme but

he was of the same cloth as Anglo-Amer. Public Opinion men in govt. and industry in the early-mid 20th c. Jos. Goebbels learned about prop. and PR from Edward Bernays (1891-1995), the 'Father of Public Relations", Austrian-American nephew of Freud.

Bernays came to the US pre WWI, and through his books like 'Propaganda' understood how to manipulate public opinion. He greatly advanced modern PR, 20th c. Public Relations and advertising. B. and Freud brought ideas to the US, where they were used by Wilson's admin. and others for WWI propaganda, to promote support for the war. Walter Lippman was a follower, like most of Madison Ave. for decades.

The propaganda techniques were picked up in Germany around WWI, esp. with new communications like telephones, radio and movies. *Most of the ideology came from studying the unconscious mind (Freud), our desires rather than needs, and how to influence and persuade people to buy stuff and believe stuff!

--Anyway, as Twain, Goebbels and most know, a lie is damn hard to squash!


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

[Gore1FL]

90. The reference was likely to Godwin's law

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[appalachiablue]

93. Thanks, got it. I know of the Hitler err, but on the topic of LIES it's appropriate w/ Goebbels

no matter how much people have misused or overused Hitler comparisons and it's considered verboten anymore. The reality can't disappear. Appreciate the phrase update though.

[geek tragedy]

121. .

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/03/11/3632325/unions-black-lives-matter-activists-join-forces-scott-walker/

[blackspade]

107. +1

[ismnotwasm]

10. Thank you

[geek tragedy]

12. I literally can't believe some of the shit I read here.

And I'm not easily shocked.

[Agschmid]

103. Yup.

Thanks for the sanity.

[MuseRider]

14. Dead on. 100%

Thank you.

[global1]

15. I Would Like To Do As You Suggest But I Don't Know What BLM Would Like A Candidate To....

embrace and run on. Is there a concise listing of (I fail to say demands) but points that they would like a candidate to embrace; speak about; and include in his/her positioning platforms and push forward? If so - what are they? And I need more point by point specifics than what I've seen in other posts here - where I read that they see differences between economic injustice and racial injustice.

Is this a chicken or the egg - which came first kind of thing? Do we have racial injustice because of economic injustice or do we have economic injustice because of racial injustice? What am I missing? What do I need to understand?

Bernie seems to be saying that economic injustice is the thing we have to attack and then other injustices will fall in place. He speaks about the 1%; income inequality; jobs; education; bringing the $'s back to the U.S. from corporations; addressing our crumbling infrastructure - hence more jobs; stimulate the economy; boost up all Americans.

What in addition should Bernie be including in his platform that would satisfy the BLM - talking more about addressing the policing situation in our country and the brutal treatment blacks are experiencing? Or does it go further than that? And if so - what?

[geek tragedy]

18. I really can't speak for BLM.

But, that's the entire point of outreach for campaigns--not only to win them over, but also to learn from them what they want.

If Bernie's campaign hasn't had those conversations with BLM activists, they ought to.

[global1]

34. I Assume That The BLM Activists Have Posted Their Points Somewhere....

They were very vocal at NRN and because of all of the yelling I wasn't able to learn what they were concerned about and wanting. Do they have a spokesperson that speaks for them? Who is Bernie's campaign have to approach to have the conversations that you suggest his campaign have?

As a supporter of Bernie - I would also like to know what their concerns and wants are.

[seveneyes]

17. Listening requires a clear and coherent message

That message has not materialized yet.

[geek tragedy]

20. Listening requires a conversation and outreach.

If Bernie doesn't understand, it's his job to learn.

[seveneyes]

23. Bernie understands

Those throwing invectives at him may, or may not understand.

[geek tragedy]

28. Do Bernie's supporters help him make inroads with minority voters

by lashing out at BLM, accusing them of being agents of George Soros and saying MLK JR would disapprove of their actions?

[seveneyes]

41. Not the ones that simply enjoy shouting him down

When the lashing starts, it's hard to stop.

[geek tragedy]

45. do you think such behavior impresses the 99.9999% of black folks

who weren't there shouting?

[seveneyes]

49. A logical answer escapes me when an emotional query is the predicate

That, and I try to never think or speak for another human.

[bravenak]

114. Answer: It offends us

[NCTraveler]

21. I don't think some of the most vocal are Sanders supporters are who they claim to be.

With some of the comments being completely outrageous, and wouldn't even be allowed during most of my years here, please keep the anonymity of the internet in mind. They don't have to be supporting the person they claim to be.

I truly think people who can write things like these are simply trying to make Sanders look bad by their own actions.

"Well, I guess Obama and Holder didn't really feel like it.
There are two black people right there that did absolutely nothing to help, quite the opposite really."

"Why isn't Black Lives Matter protesting Obama and the TPP? "

"We have two black people that did nothing to help black people. "

"MLK would be sad that a black man finally made it in the white house only to sell us out"

"How many more days does Obama have in office?
How many more have to die?"

"So the BLM to you means gaining enough power so you can ultimately treat "well to do white men" just as badly as you've been treated?"

"Why aren't they knocking on Loretta Lynch's door? Protesting when Obama speaks?
These candidates have no power now, but there are those that do. Fascinating."

"The point of activists like BLM is not to shout."

"Burning an ally strikes me like burning a neighborhood grocery store."

"If I were a republican operative, I would funnel money to BLM"

"If white supremacists had been in charge of BLM, they'd have struggled to concoct a stunt more damaging than this."

"it's almost like a 'false flag' on one's self"

[geek tragedy]

24. it seems more like a fanboy debate on 4chan than a discussion

of progressive policy goals.

The Soros conspiracy one was my favorite so far.

[Scootaloo]

25. It's like I've noted...

There certainly are people who are on the S.S. Sanders purely to be "anti-establishment." Just as there are people who argue simply to have an argument. I am sure there are people of this sort in the Clinton groups, and i'm certain of at least one for O'Malley.

it's a symptom of discourse on the internet.

[arcane1]

27. Bernie Sanders is most definitely not the enemy either n/t

[geek tragedy]

29. Of course he isn't. But he is a candidate, which means he has to play by a different

set of rules.

If the candidate and the activists clash and they get told to take a walk, the candidate is the one who loses.

And quite a few of his supporters need to learn to not talk at black folks.

[artislife]

32. What I want people to remember is what BLM stands for

It stands for Black Lives Matter.

Why do they matter? asks someone with a pouty voice

Because this society says by the nonprosecuition of murders of Black lives that it appears to be that this country somewhere along the line decided---Black Lives Don't matter.

Stand Your Ground Laws cannot be practiced by PoC.

Like this shows:

A man sells loose cigarettes on the street and is killed by a few officers and Yahoo comments is full of vile.

A blond girl named Natalee Holloway gets murdered in a foreign land and we have a year full of Nancy Grace

Do you expect to be killed in jail because you forgot to use the turn signal when changing lanes? Or your murderer gets off for free when you are out buying skittles?

Do you remember MADD when it first started out? They were loud, empassioned and they were fighting for the names of their loved ones to mean something.

It is grief.

And because every day there is something new, this grief isn't allowed to process. How dare us for not giving them our hearts and our ears so that we can avenge the deaths of those they love.

[stillwaiting]

67. This is a great post. nt

[jeff47]

35. Listening goes both ways.

You can not claim candidates are not listening to you when you've never bothered to listen to those candidates.

How do you know those candidates are not listening to you if you don't bother to listen to them?

ETA: Lost in all this is NN decided the only "social justice" sessions this year would be around immigration. But apparently NN doesn't have to listen because...reasons.

[geek tragedy]

37. True, but only one side is running for president and seeking votes.

The candidate's job is to persuade those voters. Having one paragraph in the stump speech tucked in there towards the end isn't enough.

And, the gigantic freakout amongst Bernie supporters has not been helpful.

[jeff47]

39. And the other side is trying to save lives. That's a wee bit more important than POTUS

Having one paragraph in the stump speech tucked in there towards the end isn't enough.

Considering both candidates have gone far beyond that, this is a massively disingenuous argument.

[geek tragedy]

42. Is it your position that Bernie has done everything he can/should/needs to do in terms of

reaching out to minority voters and letting them know he's in their corner and that he takes what they have say seriously--not only that he cares about issues that affects them, but that he understands where they're coming from?

Also, do you think people who accuse BLM of being part of a conspiracy funded by George Soros, or lecture BLM by saying that MLK would disapprove of them, or that they no longer care about police violence against black folks because of the heckling--do you think those people are helping Bernie's minority outreach?

[jeff47]

52. No, but that is not the threshold BLM supporters are claiming.

BLM supporters are claiming he only talks about economics, has never talked about criminal justice reform or other social justice issues. That is quite a different bar than "Could he do anything more". Because one can always do more.

Also, do you think people who accuse BLM of being part of a conspiracy funded by George Soros, or lecture BLM by saying that MLK would disapprove of them, or that they no longer care about police violence against black folks because of the heckling--do you think those people are helping Bernie's minority outreach?

Nope.

The only vaguely conspiracy-theory thoughts I have is it is odd BLM has had so much media coverage in such a short time. OWS never got this much favorable coverage, much less in two days. That's odd, given the racist slant of the vast majority of media coverage - "thugs rioting" versus "sports fans celebrating". Could be 100% benign and natural. But seems out of character.

[geek tragedy]

54. BLM was/is a much more populist movement than OWS was.

It draws support from a wide segment of society, including a large number of the 'have-nots' and it deals with a very tangible issue that people can easily wrap their brain around--society needs to value black lives as much as white lives. It was organic, even spontaneous. It was present in Times Square, but also Crown Heights (marches in the heart of Brooklyn).

OWS talked about the 99% etc, but it was always largely (but not exclusively) driven by the Portlandia/Brooklyn craft brew demographic. And it morphed into a struggle over the right to camp in public parks.

[jeff47]

56. Except that doesn't address the routine racism in media coverage.

Even if we just accept your claim that BLM has support from a larger chunk of society, you still get the "rioting thugs" versus "jubilant fans" coverage.

Coverage could have just as easily gone with "Black thugs disrupt political event". That would fit coverage of events in say, Baltimore.

Not only did that not happen, but there has been large-scale, mainstream media coverage. From a conference that got zero mainstream media coverage in past years, including presidential years.

That's really weird.

(Weird doesn't mean something nefarious has to be going on.)

[geek tragedy]

59. because BLM is about human beings, not concepts.

Trayvon Martin
Michael Brown
Eric Garner

And, BLM has high profile supporters in professional athletics, entertainment, etc.

[jeff47]

71. Uh, so were the "riots".

Did they get lots of laudatory coverage?

[geek tragedy]

73. so now you're asking why riots got less favorable coverage

than peaceful protests?

[jeff47]

75. They get less favorable coverage than riots by white people.

You're really looking hard for a semantic angle to dismiss with.

[geek tragedy]

77. Oh, gotcha. The white people riots getting treated differently is straight up racism.

The media aren't equally racist in every scenario.

[jeff47]

78. And that racism disappeared here because..........?

The racists just decided to "flip a switch" for a couple days?

[geek tragedy]

79. it didn't disappear.

but the triggers aren't as strong.

[jeff47]

81. So because......reasons.

[geek tragedy]

82. I've lost interest in this argument, as I can't tell

what the point or subject is anymore

good day

[bravenak]

115. This is a turn off to black folks. It is more how his supporters talk about and to us, then him.

The way you all talk to and about us smacks of liberal racism and paternalism. Please stop it and check your friends. I supported Bernie until the way you guys started talking about the activist and acting nasty.

[hedda_foil]

40. Absolutely!

This ridiculous defensive crouch that too many of us assume to protect him is only going to hurt him. we don't like it when Hillary supporters act like that. Let's not alienate black voters and activists, whose cause and whose patience have been so great for so many, many years. If we're to be friends, we're the ones who have to listen and we're the ones who need to learn and understand.

[ibegurpard]

44. Bernie knows this

Some of the more overzealous Internet warriors need to learn it as well. And yes some people on here will continue to try to make hay of this. It ha nothing to do with the issue at hand. Ignore them.

[geek tragedy]

46. I can protect myself against my enemies, but God save me from my friends nt

[el_bryanto]

48. That's well worded; it's a difficult, but necessary step. nt

[Vattel]

50. Suddenly you are okay with making powerful people feel uncomfortable?

"They are activists, and part of what activists do is make powerful people (yes including Senators running for President) uncomfortable.

The most important thing for us as Sanders supporters to do?

LISTEN."

And yet when a transgendered woman disrupted Obama's party (unlike BLM, she chose someone who bore responsibility for the injustice she was protesting as the target of her disruption), your response was this:

"Waaah waahh. Obama doesn't let himself get bullied by heckler, in his own residence and people get the vapors."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026905666#post4

Interesting how you didn't ask anyone to listen then. You merely cheered as Obama had Gutierrez removed.

[geek tragedy]

58. one person in the country illegally who tried to shout down the president

in the White House?

Okay . . .

[Vattel]

60. I see, one person protesting an injustice should be booted out.

How many protestors of genuine injustice does it take before we should listen instead of expel?

[geek tragedy]

62. you understand the difference between a political conference

where politicians are supposed to be chasing votes, and the white house at a private reception with the President, right?

[Vattel]

66. lol, now it is not okay to make powerful people uncomfortable

if it is at a private reception with a really powerful person. These are subtle distinctions. (sarcasm)

[geek tragedy]

72. the white house is different than an activist conference.

the entire point of the activist conference is to get in touch with activists. The White House is the residence of the President, who is the host of the event. Yes, it's a temporary residence, but it's still his house.

[Vattel]

80. so stfu if you are in the Whitehouse. Got it.

[geek tragedy]

84. if you are the guest of someone hosting an event at their residence, you're going

to get a different reception than if you do so in a public place where you have a right to be.

[Capt. Obvious]

70. C'mon, that post was ages ago

I can't even count the days on my fingers and toes.

[LWolf]

57. You're right; they're not the enemy.

And you're right about what we need to do: listen.

[Comrade Grumpy]

61. And vice versa.

[geek tragedy]

63. candidates and activists have differen roles to play.

Candidates are competing for voters.

Bernie doesn't have the option of saying, 'hey, you guys better play ball or I'll just take my business to La Raza."

[Cali_Democrat]

69. Wrong

Bernie is the one who has to convince people to vote for him, not the other way around.

He's the candidate running for Prez.

#BlackLivesMatter is not running for President.

[Comrade Grumpy]

76. Wrong. The OP said BLM is not Bernie's enemy. And Bernie is not BLM's enemy.

Yeah, Bernie has to convince people to vote for him. BLM is some tiny fraction of the electorate, even the Democratic electorate.

[bravenak]

116. You forget than most black people support BLM. They are fighting for OUR lives.

Be shitty to them, lost ALL of us.

[MisterP]

64. I presume that BLM can defend itself on its own

and doesn't need any "Sandersonians are Black-hating devils" OPs, then?

[SoapBox]

68. When will they listen?

They are screaming at the wrong persons.

And...all lives do matter, when it comes to abuse by the police militias...they can keep screaming that all lives do NOT matter...and until that changes...they aren't getting anyplace.

It gonna take one big huge fucking bunch of us to stop the shit that's been going on...so stop screaming at those of us that want to help.

[highprincipleswork]

74. Bernie Sanders is not the problem either

It is completely understandable why Black Lives Matter and all minorities are worked up over police violence. I'm a white guy, and I got a ticket recently because I believe I was profiled because of the car I drive, at night, with lights out. The officer approached my car yelling and screaming for me to roll down my tinted windows and gave me a ticket because i didn't immediately comply.

Wow, very small deal, compared to getting shot!!!!

So, it's totally understandable how people feel about this.

But attacking one of the people who is most likely to be on your side is definitely not the way to go either.

Would be great if both sides would simmer down, and figure out the way to work together.

Much cooler, calmer heads and actions are going to do more to find unity and solutions and solidarity than this kind of activity.

It is the personal job of the wounded to find their own personal ways to heal, unless you believe that vitriol and anger, even towards those who would be your ally, are your strongest personal decision. I understand that way, but perhaps I've been around just too damn long to think that you get the best results that way. By the way, Bernie has plenty of fire in his belly to voice strong and even angry concerns.

And yes, Bernie and supporters should all be looking to reach out a hand and lend an ear. But we've got to find ways to work together people!

[heaven05]

83. a lot in the last

two days have put a lot of effort in not getting it. They whine and cry and diminish and divert and distract because they DO NOT want to understand black pain living in racist society. They do not feel that noose around a black neck or nightstick choking the life out of someone, or bullets puncturing the body and spirit of a living unarmed human being. Too self insulated against the reality of hateful, racist violence ending a human life precisely and only because that life is surrounded by black or brown skin. They will not allow themselves that because it puts a whole lot of preconceived notions of whose right and whose wrong out the window. They cannot, will not allow themselves to feel that pain. They can intellectually give all the lip service in the world to the concept. But only a few have felt the pain. Fine. Don't need in my world. And to you, thank you.

[geek tragedy]

85. thank you. I will never understand what you have gone through.

But I will listen when you try to explain.

[Spazito]

86. Well said...

"That means wooing them, listening to them, addressing their concerns, not lashing out at them when they become inconvenient."

[penndragon69]

88. These black lives matter activists

are nothing but ASSHOLES. They think that they are the most important voice in the fight.
time to sit down and join the conversation, NOT act like a bunch of obstructionist repubLIEcons.

[geek tragedy]

89. Hillary thanks you for your comment. nt

[scarletwoman]

97. Wow. Just. Wow.

I hope to god you aren't a Sanders supporter, because I would be embarrassed to death to be associated with the likes of you.

[Agschmid]

105. Hell they are barely a member of DU, don't sweat it.

Since 2002... <1,000 posts?

[peacebird]

91. I 've been listening, & engaging with BLM folk on twitter. They are responding positively to me

But then I have been a supporter of BLM. This is a conversation w need to have. It is time to unmask & out the KKK and white supremacists in our 'justice' system. From cops to DAs to judges to prison guards. It is time to make racists uncomfortable whenever the dogwhistle their BS.
And that includes politicians.

[blm]

92. Well said, g_ t.

.

[blackspade]

94. They are most defiinitely not the enemy.

The conspiracy lies with the M$M and their third way allies who are wanting to drive a wedge into the Democratic Party.
BLM should be a central part of the party platform no matter the candidate.

[winter is coming]

95. I took them seriously until they decided it was a quality strategy to shout down

the two candidates most likely to be receptive to their concerns. They really damaged their credibility by doing that.

[scarletwoman]

98. To whom did they "damage their credibility"? White people?

I'm sure they're aghast to know that white people didn't approve. If they are properly contrite will you forgive them?

[winter is coming]

100. You do understand that "taking someone seriously" and "forgiving someone" are two different things?

There's nothing to forgive because I didn't think their behavior was offensive. It was just dumb.

[geek tragedy]

101. "Damaged their credibility" with whom? nt

[winter is coming]

104. With me. I wasn't presuming to speak for anyone other than myself.

Shouting down someone you've already got a meeting scheduled with doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Cha]

109. Nobody that has compassion for #BlackLivesMatter.. Netroots Nation Stands with the Protesters..

"In a statement, Netroots Nation Executive Director Raven Brooks stood with the protesters. “Although we wish the candidates had more time to respond to the issues, what happened today is reflective of an urgent moment that America is facing today,” Brooks said. Next year’s conference will take place in St. Louis, close to Ferguson, and local leaders of the #BlackLivesMatter movement will be directly engaged, Brooks added. “We plan to work with activists there just as we did in Phoenix, to amplify issues like racial profiling and police brutality in a major way.”

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/122329/bernie-sanders-and-martin-omalley-failed-their-blacklivesmatter-test

mahalo geek

[geek tragedy]

110. Mahalo

[seveneyes]

96. Meanwhile, we wait for the miracle to come

There ain't no entertainment, and the judgements are severe ...

[scarletwoman]

99. Very good post, thank you.

I've about given up - I'm so glad you're still able to summon up the energy to fight back against the unbelievable weight of nonsense that's been posted since Saturday.

Well done!

[haikugal]

102. Neither are we...I don't like bullies. That's all I have to say. nt

[TDale313]

106. Bernie Supporter who agrees with this.

I would hope Bernie does, too. These are important issues that need to be addressed. We supporters would do well to try and take a deep breath, look past the first impulses of defensiveness and dismissiveness (which, yeah, I get and have felt) and listen. It's gonna be up to Bernie and the campaign to see if they can reach out to minorities and address the social justice issues on their own terms to those who don't feel issues they care deeply about are being addressed in a way that resonates with them. We supporters can do our best to listen and to not reinforce the image that we don't care about or "get" those issues.

[vive la commune]

108. I'm a Bernie supporter, and I agree

I wish people would do a lot more listening and a lot less yelling and talking down to others. It's not helping, and it really puts people off. From what I've seen, it's already cost him support. Think about that. There is a reason why BLM is protesting and they deserve to be listened to, especially by anyone who is planning on being the next president. Bernie will either deal with it well, or he won't. Trying to continually 'defend' him so strongly on every last criticism, whether you think it's valid or not, only makes things worse.

[sheshe2]

111. Kick & Rec!

[Number23]

112. I don't know what's worse. The fact that people who want their candidate to win the DEMOCRATIC

nomination for President of the United States have to be told that black people are not their enemy or the numerous people who RAN to this thread to argue against your point.

I am seriously conflicted about Sanders solely because of his supporters. How a man who's allegedly done so much in the fight for social justice can have such foul, narrow minded and un-socially aware people supporting him is something I will never be able to understand.

[lovemydog]

117. Thanks for your excellent post geek tragedy.

Something that's really wonderful about posting here: finding people like you who feel the same as me. I know that many Sanders supporters, many O'Malley supporters, many Hillary supporters, are people who I'd really like in person because they aren't trying to burn bridges, they are trying to build them. I've gone from being a Sanders supporter to undecided in the past few days. It's a long way until the day I vote, and I don't want to lose sight of the fact that there really are supporters of every candidate who can see the criticisms and try and listen and learn. As others have said in this thread and elsewhere, my biggest difficulties aren't so much with the specific candidates or even with all their supporters. It's more to do with some of the blowhards who seem incapable of listening to others and accepting that they are coming from a different place, with different experiences and perceptions and points of view. I have been and remain a big supporter of President Obama. I just haven't yet found my candidate this time around. It's kind of fun being back in the undecided camp. I can see positives from all the candidates. The ones who try and tear down other posters here, or ridiculously smear other people or candidates, well, I'm learning to ignore them a bit more.

[geek tragedy]

119. The first job of supporters is to make undecided voters feel welcome in joining

them in supporting their candidate.