Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton

[IVoteDFL]

I work a backbreaking job for $11.66 an hour, and it's hard to get 40 hours at my job. My rent is $700 a month at a supposed "affordable living" apartment. I can't get a better job, because I lack any professional skills. I can't afford to send myself back to school to gain any skills. My situation is similar to many of my neighbors. We struggle every day of our lives just to pay the rent and eat.


A couple years ago someone close to me developed Cancer. She would cry because she couldn't afford the medical treatment she needed. The insurance companies would hang up on her after giving her the total run around. It was heartbreaking to watch. I helped to take care of her until we spread her ashes last June. We'll also never know if she would have benefited from medical marijuana.

My own mother was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis. She lives in a lot of pain and there is no cure for RA. She needs to see a doctor almost weekly. She keeps getting worse. In the last year she had emergency surgery for a septic shoulder. She's gotten a secondary diagnosis of osteoporosis and broke two of her toes earlier this month. She can't afford a car and walks three blocks to the bus stop to get to work.

If I start ruffling some feathers here or seem like I take the primaries too personally, it's because for me they are personal. I would LOVE to have a woman president, but I NEED Bernie Sanders. I need a living wage, an opportunity to go to college, real affordable living, and a single payer option. Not to mention that we all need someone very committed to rolling back the effects of global warming or there may not be a country to preside over within my lifetime.

[NanceGreggs]

1. And as we all know ...

... if Bernie is elected, he will magically change everything overnight, for you and for everyone else.

[corkhead]

2. alternatively, we should just accept our crappy lot in life.

[NanceGreggs]

14. No.

Alternatively, you should stop thinking that any one man/woman is going to right all wrongs, rectify all injustices, and give every man, woman and child what they want/need.

[bvf]

46. Of course, nobody thinks that, you know.

You do know that, right?

[calimary]

295. Um... there were legions of those who DID think that of then-candidate Obama, too.

And some of them devolved into slamming him as a goddamn used car salesman when he didn't live up to every last one of their hopes and dreams, and didn't deliver every last micron of change as many of us dreamed he might during the campaign.

I was here that whole time. I saw it again and again and again. LOTS of people thought that - and still think that way to this day.

[bvf]

303. I lurked back then, joined in 2011.

The POSUCS kerfuffle was (and remains) ugly, but I always regarded, mistakenly perhaps, that such objections didn't hinge on O not doing it all as much as they did on his failure to deliver on certain users' pet priorities, regardless of his actual accomplishments.

I guess I could use a trip to the archives. Not looking forward to it, but I'm obviously due some history remediation.

[dflprincess]

52. Perhaps you could show us where the OP said that Bernie is going to right all wrongs?

I took her/his post to mean that s/he supports Bernie because s/he believes Bernie understands that people are struggling and will at least make an honest effort to improve things rather than just paying lip service during the campaign.

[840high]

141. +1

[C Moon]

178. +1+1

[emsimon33]

197. +1+1 +1

[Perseus]

220. What makes anyone think Hillary won't?

The US and the World did very well during Bill Clinton's tenure, and I believe that if Hillary becomes the next President that she will also work hard to right some wrongs. Yes, she is embedded with people and organizations we may not be happy about, but is a modern political need if you want to get elected.

I rather have Hillary any time than any of the Republican prospects...DU needs to discuss issues and stop the negative campaigning against Hillary, although the negatives maybe from Republicans pretending to be Democrats? Just like the "Blue Dog Democrats", which is nothing but a Republican registered as a Democrat with the sole purpose of defeating Democratic bills.

[IVoteDFL]

224. lol are you suggesting that anyone who has anything negative to say about HRC is a Republican?

That is so far and beyond ridiculous.

I too would rather have Hillary than any of the Republicans, but I'm so tired of the lesser of two evils.

[Bubzer]

228. "rather have Hillary any time than any of the Republican prospects"

Me too, but its not a choice between Hillary and the Republicans. Its a choice between Hillary and Bernie.
I do agree we need to discuss issues. Hillary's frequent corporate speaking engagements for mega-corporations and banks is an issue that has to be addressed. Specifically because we, as Democrats, should want to minimize the possibility of back-room deals. Another issue is Hillary's lack of a position on the TPP and TPIP. We need to know where she (or any other candidate) stands on this issue. It's an issue that affects our entire economy. I don't understand how someone wouldn't have an opinion about it.

We should be critical of every prospect on the presidential field, regardless of who they are. We want the best president we can get. So now is exactly the time to discuss the issues with our candidates.

[Stargazer99]

242. the money and power in the upper class in this nation has a strangle hold on this country

I don't think Hillary can do as much as Bernie. I've seen in the past people with money and power do not understand what is happening to the lower classes, because they have not experienced the frustrations and roadblocks this country makes for those who have no power or wealth.

[jeff47]

265. Being conscious during the last 30 years. (nt)

[dflprincess]

292. +1

[freebrew]

298. +2... nt

[Cheese Sandwich]

407. +3 . . . nt

[azmom]

301. +1

[J_J_]

313. +100000

They think we have no memory or something?

They think their brainwashing techniques are more powerful than they actually are?

[heaven05]

274. "the US and the world did very well during bill's tenure"

Last edited Fri Jul 17, 2015, 02:59 PM - Edit history (1)

Nafta, glass-steagall, prisons for profit, three strikes and you're out for smoking a marijuana cigarette, enabling media monopoly by the concerned billionaires on the RW....very well indeed

[J_J_]

314. exactly!

Thank you!

[JDPriestly]

405. +10000

[passiveporcupine]

322. 'The US and the World did very well during Bill Clinton's tenure'

You mean the 1% did. The middle class still was in decline through his tenure and more jobs were shipped overseas.

I can't believe anyone here would boast about the successes of Bill Clinton after seeing what has happened in this country over the last thirty or more years.

[AlbertCat]

344. 'The US and the World did very well during Bill Clinton's tenure'

And of course Hillary is just Bill in a dress....or pants suit....

[passiveporcupine]

349. Where did I mention Hillary?

My post was not about her, nor was the one I responded to.

But I have to admit, I don't understand why anyone would bring Bill Clinton out to pimp for Hillary.

[AlbertCat]

353. mea culpa

I thought I was responding to Perseus.



One of my big probs with Hillary is I hear.... and have seen on here a few times, rhetoric that suggests Hillary did things Bill did. And that "Clinton Brand" kind of thing. Hillary just comes with so much baggage.

But Sanders has been around since the dinosaurs and they have to go back to like 1972 to get some dirt on him.... that is unrelated to this election.

[cui bono]

360. While the economy faired well under B.Clinton, he's the one who got rid of Glass-Steagall

which is a huge reason we are in the mess we are in today. He also has a lot of other negatives on his record, NAFTA, welfare reform, prison sentences... So I wouldn't use him as an example to live up to.

As to your Republican comments. Whatever, Hillary is close to a Republican herself so I'm not sure why you are wishing for her except yes, maybe over Republicans, but certainly not over Sanders who is the best Democrat there currently is.

[IVoteDFL]

225. Yes and thank you

You don't have to believe that one candidate is going to be the savior to believe that they are way more likely to help you than the alternative.

[GoneFishin]

236. +1. Especially agree on your point about only lip service during the campaign.

[L0oniX]

250. +1+1+1+1

[heaven05]

272. +100

some of those 'supporters' can be pretty blind to facts about a certain candidate.

[zeemike]

54. Ironically that is what Bernie said.

That no one person even him could do it alown...and it is why he called for a political revolution.
And if we are wise we will be part of that political revolution.

[NanceGreggs]

99. And Obama said, "Yes, WE can."

And within weeks of his inauguration, people on this very site were saying, "No, YOU do something. I'll just sit here and bitch on a website about everything YOU didn't do."

[zeemike]

123. Well your right about that, we did not hold his feet to the fire.

And so he did not give us change we believed he would give us...and started trying to pleas the GOP.
He had us because we were his fans not his constituents...and some still are his fans and will accept anything including the TPP.

[NanceGreggs]

156. Obama got his "feet held to the fire" ...

... until his toes were singed off.

And THAT was the extent of what "we could do together" was for many here.

[Katashi_itto]

201. I am curious to to what your activist creds are too.

[Scootaloo]

153. Please list your plethora of activist achievements, nance

show your credentials.

[NanceGreggs]

154. The only important credential ...

... in the context of this discussion is the fact that I didn't spend the last six-plus years of my life posting about what Obama didn't do.

[Scootaloo]

157. No, you're snarling at other people for "not pulling their weight." Show us what you've achieved.

[NanceGreggs]

161. Whre was I "snarling at ogther people ...

... for not pulling their weight"?

What I did was point out that a lot of folks here thought "yes, WE can" meant "Obama should do it on his own, while I complain about his lack of doing everything what I want done."

[Scootaloo]

165. This:

And within weeks of his inauguration, people on this very site were saying, "No, YOU do something. I'll just sit here and bitch on a website about everything YOU didn't do."

And this:

I didn't spend the last six-plus years of my life posting about what Obama didn't do.

What. Did. You. Achieve.

If you're going to talk down to people NanceGreggs, you've gotta have something that gives you the privilege. Let's see it.

[NanceGreggs]

167. That wasn't "talking down to people".

It was pointing out what people here actually DID.

I claim no "privilege" in pointing out the obvious.

Or are you actually claiming that this site hasn't been full of posts, for six-plus years now, whining about everything Obama has ever said, proposed, done, or failed to do?

[7962]

209. Apparently you are now required to disclose your entire life on a website.

Just because you dared to oppose the chosen one.

I understand what you're trying to say, and you dont have to PROVE anything to have an opinion.

[jeff47]

267. "I marched for ____" or "I organized for ____" or "I helped campaigns" is disclosing your life? (nt)

[Maven]

297. she's built a fan club based on cutesy rhetorical flourishes! from canada!

you're saying that isn't activism?!

[Lordquinton]

324. Jury results

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Fri Jul 17, 2015, 05:08 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

she's built a fan club based on cutesy rhetorical flourishes! from canada!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=453067

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is just mocking and abusive. It also is xenophobic........we have DUERS from all over the country.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jul 17, 2015, 05:14 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Xenophobic? Really?
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree with the alerter.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[AlbertCat]

341. we have DUERS from all over the country.

Cananda is part of the country now?


Do we get single payer health care then????????

[Lordquinton]

350. Maple syrup for everyone!

Hope no one thinks that was too xenophobic.

[beam me up scottie]

343. Mocking and abusive?

Have they met Nance?

Did they miss the part where she insulted the op who posted a heartbreaking personal story in the hopes of getting a little understanding and compassion from their fellow DUers?

[Lordquinton]

348. Most of the alerts these days make no sense

the only reason they aren't all 7-0 is the one person who agrees with their stance regardless of content. And lots of bizarre claims of sexism on benign comments.

[beam me up scottie]

351. It's easier to silence people then make your case.

Make something up and hope the jury doesn't look too closely.

Good thing 6 of the 7 didn't fall for it this time.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

361. You'd think the death of a loved one...

would mellow her a little bit, but no... nasty as ever. And she does little else but bash DU. I love DU, warts and all. Don't like it? LEAVE.

This will probably get hidden, but such is life...

[beam me up scottie]

364. Me too.

This place saved my sanity, I can't say it enough.

And if anyone deserves to have their posts hidden it's Nance.

She could have walked them back but nope, just made things that much worse because she's the victim here.

It's all about her, no one else matters.

Unbelievable.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

367. ESPECIALLY after how kind DUers were to her...

after the death of her loved one. You'd think she'd muster some compassion for a fellow DUer. It's fucking sickening that she's in attack mode in this thread.

[beam me up scottie]

370. Nothing like kicking a person when they're down.

I wondered how long it would take for her to revert to her old ways.

There's my answer.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

372. I see Autumn addresses it rather eloquently downthread...

I was late to the party. I found it so fucking obnoxious (CLASSIC Nance), and just jumped in.

[JDPriestly]

186. Actually, I was active in my Democratic Club and organized

for Democrats in a number of ways including registering voters, lots of them.

What did you do?

I think I have earned the right to also post my opinions on DU. I don't just write and talk. I work.

I have volunteered to work on Bernie's campaign. I think our work will start soon.

[eridani]

192. Obama shitcanned OFA, and people drifted away.

That's the thing about Sanders--the movement he is inspiring will NOT go away.

[AlbertCat]

345. That's the thing about Sanders

And he doesn't admire Ronald Reagan! (like Obama) as far as I know.

[Rilgin]

202. There were a few other things that happenned within weeks

You are partially right. But, you also forget that within weeks of his inauguration, he had appointed Raum Emmanuel as chief of staff. Had an economic team from Goldman Sacks and Citi. As referred to in another post, he let OFA dissolve which was the source of supporters feelings of being part of a movement. He went from mobilizing millions on the mall to negotiating with Republicans behind closed doors during those weeks. This led to some of the dismay that you correctly saw amongst activists and leftists who really had hoped that he meant Change when he campaigned on it.

At his inauguration, BHO had Rick Warren give a prayer. This meant to some of us that we had been fed some form of bill of goods in the Hope and Change and Yes we can message. Some of us knew before hand, during the primary, that he was putting on a false face. BHO is a fine man and a relief after Bush but he is not a radical and Change was just an advertising slogan that appealed to what people wanted. He played on these desires to get elected not because this was what he was. He is a DLC moderate and always was. This corresponds to his own view of himself and his policies as akin to a moderate republican of prior decades. Of course he said this only after he was elected.

BHO's first election campaign was based like most politicians on slight of hand. When he said Hope and Change, most people thought he meant real substantial change. Big changes. His term has been full of small incremental changes. The one major change (the ACA) was explained by him not a change but designed explicitly to not disturb the American health care system.

Bernie Sanders has no history of such ties to the status quo. He is not DLC has no ties to the Democratic power structure. There is no fear of him appointing a status quo economic team. It is indeed a question of what he will get through congress since he will fight for real substantial change in the American economic system. However, there is no confusion as to what he wants. We will not have to hold his feet to the fire to be part of Yes, We can. He is actually party of the We and not above it.

[tblue]

237. Well if you're gonna be picky....

You said it all, my friend.

I don't know anyone who criticizes Obama for not doing "everything." However, I know people who are dismayed that he didn't do a lot of things that were truly in his power. For instance, he could have appointed a cabinet of people like Robert Reich --- people with genuine populist cred rather than Wall Street cred.

I applaud what I like and not what I don't. Good move on Iran; not so much on TPP. Has nothing to do with whether I like Obama the man. I don't know why some people believe it's got to be all or nothing.

[LiberalLovinLug]

271. +1

Yes, although Obama did appeal to supporters to help to push him to act in their interests, what we didn't expect was that he'd immediately start prostrating himself before Wall Street, Big Insurance, give a free pass for War Crimes, and walk away from a public option and not even allow Doctors and Nurses for Single Payer a seat at the table....before we even had a chance. I think it took a lot of supporters by surprise, his actions were 180º different than what he implied in the primaries. As soon as any of the liberal base actually DID start to grumble we were called "retards" by his own Chief of Staff. After that we were simply ignored.

[Babel_17]

289. The War Crimes would have been brutally divisive

The War Crimes would have been brutally divisive, but history demonstrates that there are scant examples of easy times to address them. But there are examples of the folly of ignoring them.

[AlbertCat]

346. The War Crimes would have been brutally divisive,

Thank Woton we avoided that!

The past years have been anything but brutally divisive, haven't they!

[Babel_17]

355. No argument here, I was disgusted at our letting Iran Contra fade away

You know that those types always engineer a return. All we can do is go "tut tut tut" when Cheney trotted around the talk shows, we kept our powder try, looked forward, and not back, acted like mature adults, had a "Rally to Restore Sanity", and just basically lost our credibility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rally_to_Restore_Sanity_and/or_Fear

On Real Time with Bill Maher, Bill Maher criticized the rally, saying that while Stewart and Colbert meant well, the message of the rally promoted a false equivalency between the left and the right, noting, "the big mistake of modern media has been this notion of balance for balance's sake. That the Left is just as violent and cruel as the Right...there's a difference between a mad man and a madman."

I disapproved of Stewart's take and it saddened me to hear it.

Taking up those who allowed The War Crimes to happen was going to be "A Bridge Too Far" for our party. It was too compromised by that point and there was nowhere near a consensus for talking/taking it up.

I do think however we should have funded the investigations into the lies that were at the root of this. Sadly even just that was seen as too politically expensive.

The stain and blight on our country has yet to be properly addressed. The New York Times certainly had no stomach to specially mark the tenth anniversary of the invasion.

http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/18/for-10th-anniversary-of-iraq-war-a-low-key-approach-from-the-times/?_r=0

[L0oniX]

251. Silly ...he was talking to the oligarchy who want trade deals.

[freebrew]

300. For MANY of us...

it's about all we could do. With Rahm marginalizing the so-called 'professional left' over ANYTHING progressive that PBO promised in his campaign. It didn't take long to see that he was just another Raygun DINO.

Sorry that's the truth as I see it. There are so many of us that have lost any semblance of hope these last 8 years.

Until M$M is breathing its last dying gasp, we can't get anywhere. Bernie seems a breath of fresh air.
If he can get elected, it just may open a new progressive movement. We can only hope.

Oh, and VOTE.

[cui bono]

362. Well everytime people wanted to hold his feet to the fire we were met with 'because Republicans'.

When people wanted him to just try to accomplish things it was asking for ponies and rainbows and whatever else. And there were so many things he never tried to do at all. He gave the GOP everything they wanted before getting to the negotiating table.

And... he said wanted us to hold his feet to the fire and then shunned us. He never put on those 'comfortable walking shoes'. Instead he installed Wall Street in the White House. How's that for "WE"? He must have meant he and the banksters cuz he certainly has been better at keeping their status quo than fighting for ours to come back.

He alienated the people when he so clearly sided with Wall Street. Hillary will do the same.

[NanceGreggs]

363. Not even worth responding to. n/t

[cui bono]

365. And yet you did. n/t

[NanceGreggs]

368. No. I alerted you to the fact that I wouldn't be. n/t

[cui bono]

373. So if I call you on the phone and tell you I'm not going to call you that means I didn't

actually call you?

Somehow everything makes more sense now that I understand your 'logic'.

[NanceGreggs]

374. I responded to the fact of your having posted.

I did not respond to what you had posted, because it wasn't worth a response.

It's like picking up the phone when you call and saying, "I don't want to talk to you."

[cui bono]

375. Which would be a pretty stupid thing to do!

[NanceGreggs]

376. What ev. n/t

I was simply acknowledging that you had replied to my post, and stating that I didn't think it was worth responding to.

If that concept baffles you, well

[LiberalLovinLug]

389. If you were honest with yourself

You'd know why you couldn't manage to find any response.

The naked truth has a way of silencing.

[NanceGreggs]

391. I said the post wasn't worth responding to.

That's why I didn't respond.

I don't know why that simple concept eludes you.

[emsimon33]

198. And make sure that real Democrats are elected with him

Giving him the Congress and Senate that he needs.

[artislife]

335. That is draw to having Bernie as the Nom

He will bring in voters who will vote progressive and I think he will bring in voters who haven't voted in the past. This could really change the make up of Congress and local governments.

[Dustlawyer]

213. This is the key and Bernie knows it! It is time WE have to take an active part in our government.

To defeat the Oligarchs it will take the people getting involved in huge numbers. We got into this mess by thinking we vote (some of us) and that's it. Because of that, the rich have been able to buy our Representatives right under our noses and write the laws to benefit themselves at our expense.
Bernie has stated many times that for his ideas to work he has to have us at his back pressuring the other representatives to vot with him or else we will replace them.

[azmom]

256. +1

[Stargazer99]

243. AMEN

[corkhead]

63. Wow, I thought that?

you are quite clairvoyant

[99Forever]

94. Dripping with condescending goodness.

Classy as always.

Tell me again why I would want to join forces with you or anyone you support.

Be sure and fill it with snarky insults, it's sure to win lots of hearts and minds.

[Divernan]

102. And not a scintilla of empathy from her either! Quite a heartless attitude.

Of course neither she nor her candidate has to walk three blocks with rheumatoid arthritis to get to work. Her candidate has been chauffeured everywhere for decades!

[marym625]

187. +1000

Rather unbelievable. Come to a post to moan about something that was never said, while showing zero empathy for the poster and complaining about past complaints by others about something else completely.

It's in the "how to hijack a thread" handbook, I believe

[frylock]

116. fuckin a

[passiveporcupine]

109. Maybe you should stop thinking

everyone thinks what you think they do.

Have you ever read the book "How to win friends and Influence People"? Didn't think so.

[PatrickforO]

177. No, I'm sorry. That argument is no longer good enough. We cannot afford the status quo.

Clinton won't really change anything and she'll get us into another war. She'll support 'free' trade that costs millions of American jobs.

Bernie will at least TRY. And if we TRY with him, then maybe all of us will SUCCEED in creating the society that SHOULD BE, and getting rid of this neoliberal crap-hole that we currently 'enjoy.'

[eridani]

190. Sanders says that himself on a daily basis--we need a mass movement or--

--having the best president in the world won't do us any good.

[DhhD]

212. A mass movement to get rid of paid off politicians; politicians voting against our well being.

[stillwaiting]

204. You REALLY need to stop telling people what they SHOULD think.

You are sometimes way too aggressive, and it comes across very hostile. And nasty.

I don't see many (any?) Bernie supporters supposing that he can wave his frickin' magic wand. What many Bernie supporters believe is that with HIM in the White House (and with access to the bully pulpit) the issues we care so much about will have the visibility they need to perhaps gain traction with the public, and THAT could lead to a vital realignment in Congress (which could lead to the realization of the policies we desire). We'd be closer to living in a country that provides the things the OP desires. It's worth fighting for, and it's worth believing in.

It would be great if people that aren't Bernie supporters would stop accusing Bernie supporters of shit that they don't believe unless there is evidence that they believe something.

Your talking point against Bernie's supporters is stale and untrue.

[Stargazer99]

240. That is why we in the lower classes need to work as a team but we need a leader

which Bernie will be. Anything is better than the hell so many of us are living in

[ibewlu606]

244. NT

So why vote for HRC?

[beam me up scottie]

3. Ruffled YOUR feathers, eh Nance?

Good.

Rec'ing the op for many reasons but that tops the list.

[NanceGreggs]

18. I just checked my feathers.

They don't appear to be ruffled in the least.

The ruffled feathers seem to come about when anyone points out that Bernie isn't the political messiah who will change every citizen's lot in life overnight.

[beam me up scottie]

21. Yet you were the first one to attack the op for having a different opinion and voicing it here.

if Bernie is elected, he will magically change everything overnight, for you and for everyone else.

Bernie isn't the political messiah who will change every citizen's lot in life overnight.

Do you own your own fields or buy that straw from farmers?

I hear strawmen sales are soaring among Hillary supporters and I'm thinking about investing.

[NanceGreggs]

24. Well, if you think pointing out the obvious ...

... is an "attack", then so be it.

[beam me up scottie]

25. Accusing the op of believing that Sanders "will magically change everything overnight" is an attack.

And if someone did the same thing to a HC supporter the collective screeching would wake the folks on the ISS.

[NanceGreggs]

26. An exactly where ...

... did I "accuse the OP of worshipping their choice of candidate"?

Oh, that's right - I didn't.

I merely pointed out that believing any one candidate, if elected, will have the power to change everything is unrealistic.

Your mileage, of course, may vary - and obviously does.

[beam me up scottie]

31. Sorry, I edited, you accused me and other supporters of worshiping Sanders.

Here:

NanceGreggs (16,942 posts)
18. I just checked my feathers.

They don't appear to be ruffled in the least.

The ruffled feathers seem to come about when anyone points out that Bernie isn't the political messiah who will change every citizen's lot in life overnight.

You just accused the op and other Sanders supporters of believing in magic:

NanceGreggs (16,942 posts)
1. And as we all know ...

... if Bernie is elected, he will magically change everything overnight, for you and for everyone else.

Sorry, you attacked so many people in such a short amount of time I was momentarily confused.

[NanceGreggs]

33. Well, I think "magical thinking" ...

... is detrimental to rational thinking, and has no place in choosing the next POTUS.

[beam me up scottie]

45. As a proud atheist/skeptic I don't believe in magic or that Hillary is the best candidate.

But you keep the faith while I feel the Bern, Nance.

[NanceGreggs]

50. By all means ...

... enjoy it while it lasts.

[artislife]

62. Where have I heard the phrase Magical thinking before? nt

[beam me up scottie]

85. They said we Obama supporters were guilty of it in 2008.

Same meme, different year.

[artislife]

88. I remember that too well

I was a woman and I was not stepping in line. oops, I think I am doing it again.

[frylock]

120. Or messiah?

[morningfog]

142. Yep. Recycled right wing bullshit.

[JDPriestly]

189. Bernie supporters are not magical thinkers.

We support Bernie because of his stances on the issues. He makes it very clear that this election is about the issues. We happen to agree with him on the issues.

Hillary and Bernie differ in very important respects on the issues.

In addition, they differ on how they are running their campaigns. Hillary is taking donations (sometimes in the form os speaking fees) from Wall Street and big corporations.

Bernie is not.

Both candidates claim to oppose Citizens United. Yet Hillary is organizing her campaign around all the money she has raised thanks to Citizens United. Bernie, in contrast, is not running on corporate, Citizens United money.

That is important to many of us.

Those who go for Hillary because she alone has that magical whatever it is (in their view) to win against the motley crew that is running on the Republican ticket are the believers in magic.

Sanders' substance, determination and common sense are what we like about him. His votes in Congress, on the Iraq War, for example, have proven what good, solid judgment he has. Hillary -- not the worst, but not as good as Bernie in that respect.

So we do not back Bernie because we believe in magic but because we believe that Bernie has the moral strength to represent us well and to achieve some if not all of the goals he has set out for himself.

[restorefreedom]

87. and believing the candidate has the power to change nothing....

also unrealistic.

[NanceGreggs]

95. I cannot imagine ...

... a situation where any candidate does NOT have the power to change anything.

[restorefreedom]

104. the discussion

seemed to be heading towards a point where bernie was either the next messiah or an inept placeholder. no one used those words but i just wanted to point out that while he is not a genie granting our wishes, the person in the oval office does matter. some seemed to be getting away from that reality.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

339. It's very simple

We know where Bernie stands, and we know where Hillary stands. We choose Bernie. So go ahead and call me names, put words in my mouth - I can take it. I've never believed more in a politician before in my long life, and it's full speed ahead AFAIC.

[NanceGreggs]

340. So what? n/t

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

342. So what, what? n/t

[kenfrequed]

35. Uhm...

It is a really sarcastic version of a straw-man argument. We should all do better than that.

[London Lover Man]

37. I seem to remember hearing the same thing about Obama being the Messiah

and look what the end result was....

Yup..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5359057

[NanceGreggs]

61. Oh, yes, for many he WAS the Messiah ...

... who was going to right all wrongs overnight.

And within 24 hours of his inauguration, those same people were complaining about how they'd been "betrayed".

It would be the same with Bernie. If elected, a lot of his - uh - "staunch supporters" here would have him under the bus in record time.

[Raksha]

249. Yes, they were complaining they were betrayed because they WERE betrayed.

When Obama appointed Rahm Emmanuel as his chief of staff he showed his true colors, and he's been showing them ever since. "Hope and Change" was just a campaign slogan.

I voted for Obama in 2008, but with reservations. I suspected him of being a Trojan horse, bought and paid for by the corporatocracy. Which is exactly what he turned out to be. I voted for Jill Stein (Green) in 2012, but it was strictly a protest vote because I knew she had no chance of winning. But I'll do it again if I have to - I will never vote for the proverbial "lesser of two evils" again, because in reality there is no such thing. If I'm going to vote for a corporatist warmonger I might as well vote Republican.

[heaven05]

275. BS

period

[AlbertCat]

352. Can you see the US from your house?

Or Russia?

You don't seem to be able to see either.


And is your name Sylvia Brown?

You do seem to act like it.


(BTW, Sylvia Brown was wrong most of the time too)

[NanceGreggs]

354. If you have a point ...

... I can't find it.

I'm an American citizen living in Toronto - just like millions of Americans who live out-of-country.

I vote absentee ballot in New York State, which is where I was born and raised.

Got a problem with that? Take it up with Congress - maybe you can get them to change the fact that citizens are free to live elsewhere and still vote - which, I might add, is more than a lot of in-country citizens can be bothered to do.

[AlbertCat]

356. Boy you really didn't get it, did you?

It wasn't a point about you being able to vote.

I'm sure lots of others got it tho'.

[NanceGreggs]

357. Yeah ...

... uh-huh. I'm sure they did. Sure. Of course.

[Jester Messiah]

79. Wow, I remember when it was the repubs who slung around that "messiah" word.

"Obamessiah" and all that nonsense. Thank goodness we have Hilary to unite us.

[arcane1]

90. The word isn't just from repubs, but it's always aimed from the right side of the candidate n/t

[beam me up scottie]

91. Yes! That's where I've heard that before!

At least Nance is recycling old smears.

No sense in going out and buying new ones.

[hedda_foil]

163. It was Hillary's surrogates and supporters who started that meme in '07-'08.

That and most of the other nonsensical talking points against Obama. For instance, claiming O supporters were hero worshipping their very own messiah. I find it hard to understand that with a new and pricey team in place, they're using the identical slurs against a very different opponent. It's like a telemarketing pitch: "If the customer says "A" you say "B."

[artislife]

166. Hopefully it will be just as successful.

And Bernie will win the nom!

[hedda_foil]

170. You said it, artie!

[frylock]

117. I'll just bet your feathers got a little ruffled when people referred to Obama as the Messiah..

keep gazing into that abyss.

[AtheistCrusader]

241. Right. Straw men tend to loss people off. The only person who seems to say Bernie can fix it all is

You, as a sarcastic negative.

[BrotherIvan]

5. Perfect Hillary response

[NanceGreggs]

9. Actually, it was the realistic response.

Obama didn't have a magic wand to change things overnight, nor does Hillary.

And neither does Bernie.

[BrotherIvan]

11. So a person pours out his heart about his life struggles

And it's your job to teach him about reality? Like I said, perfect response.

[NanceGreggs]

20. So reality is a BAD thing now?

It's better to believe that one candidate is going to change everyone's life for the better overnight?

[WillyT]

30. No... But It Would Be Nice For Once To Have A Candidate NOT IN BED With The 1% !!!

One who ACTUALLY gives a shit about the rest of us, and isn't beholden to their donor bosses.

Jesus Nance... you of all people should know better.

[NanceGreggs]

41. And you should know better ...

... than to think repeating things like "she's in bed with the 1%" and is "beholden to donor bosses", if repeated often enough, will make them reality.

--- Actually, I take that back. If you repeat those things often enough on DU, they DO BECOME accepted as reality.

But only on DU. In the real world, such declarations are dismissed and/or laughed at. And HRC's poll numbers show that.

[J_J_]

316. [phone]

....seems way too smart to be this dumb.

[BrotherIvan]

47. Compassion is free

It is not necessary to hit everyone over the head with your version of reality.

[Autumn]

89. No BrotherIvan, compassion seems to be in short supply, in fact some people have

no compassion at all.

[BrotherIvan]

96. It sucks

It really does. I am a big old softie. I can't read the story of someone's pain and then turn around and give them a hard, cold dose of reality. It's pretty clear the OP has had quite enough of hard knocks.

[Autumn]

100. That wasn't a hard, cold dose of reality BrotherIvan

that was just plain old meanness and a complete lack of empathy for the pain and struggles another human being is going through.

[Divernan]

222. Antithesis of Bill's "I feel your pain"

Last edited Fri Jul 17, 2015, 06:03 PM - Edit history (1)

I am not at all surprised by the unkind, cold and heartless responses in this thread from those who support a One Percenter.

[Autumn]

86. I'm glad people were kind to you when you posted about the pain in your life.

Last edited Fri Jul 17, 2015, 12:07 AM - Edit history (1)

You sit there in your ivory tower with your healthcare that gave your husband a death with dignity and mock a person posting about a friend crying because she couldn't afford the medical treatment for cancer she needed. The posters Mother, diagnosed with RA, a debilitating painful disease and you have no empathy. Your response to the poster opening up about the pain in their life was disgusting and cold. The poster never said they believe Bernie will change everyone's life for the better overnight, they posted about their support for a candidate that they trust to turn things around for everyone.

Your response to their pain was disgusting and revealing

And as we all know ...

... if Bernie is elected, he will magically change everything overnight, for you and for everyone else.

I'm glad people were kind to you when you posted about the pain in your life.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=450860

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Wow. This is about as low as I've seen here. Using Nance's husband's recent death to bludgeon her in an open post is the single most disgusting thing I have witnessed here. This is hitting WAY below the belt, and this poster should know better. Utterly low, low, low.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:29 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Totally out of line. Take a break.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Harsh perhaps, but I see no violation here.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Sorry, can't vote to hide this, not without the whole subthread going.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[beam me up scottie]

121. Thanks for saying what I was thinking, Autumn.

Pathetic.

[Autumn]

126. To see such a lack of empathy and contempt for another

person posting about their struggles goes well beyond pathetic. The responses in this thread by a lot of people are truly eye opening.

[QC]

127. It's evil.

That's not a word I use much, but it's the only one that fits.

[Autumn]

135. Not an ounce of compassion for what the poster is living through.

Just snark and nastiness over her lack of support for their candidate. One poster even asked if she was voting for Hillary if she was the nominee. I can't wrap my mind around the lack of human kindness and decency in this thread. v I have never seen such an ugly vile display on DU in all the time I have been here.

[beam me up scottie]

128. 3 minutes.

That's how long it took for her to cause even more pain.

Didn't even hesitate and then doubled down after being called on it.

[Puglover]

231. I guess I am shocked

that you are shocked.

Me. Not for a second.

Just utterly gross.

[NanceGreggs]

327. I posted here about my husband's death ...

... because he was a long-time DUer, and had many friends here. In fact, there were already posts up about his passing before I posted mine.

I did not post about it in order to use his passing to score political points for any candidate. Neither did anyone else who responded, or posted their condolences.

If one is going to post an OP about their personal life in order to make a political statement on a political website, one should expect replies that are of a political nature.

The fact that you cannot distinguish between those two concepts speaks for itself.

[Autumn]

330. Yeah right.

[NanceGreggs]

331. Exactly the reply expected. n/t

[Autumn]

332. How's this then? Your post was just about what I have come to expect. n/t

[NanceGreggs]

333. I'm sorry you are so disturbed by the facts. n/t

[Sissyk]

336. Your results:

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Fri Jul 17, 2015, 05:10 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Yeah right.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=453594

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This post is disgusting. This is the second disgusting remark to a recently widowed DUer in regards to her posting about her husband's death. To question or insinuate motive for this long time DUer's post pouring her heart out about her recently dead husband (also a long time DUer) is incredibly insensitive.

You know, Skinner recently said in the ATA forum that we need more people on juries who are willing to hide the bile. This path of attack is bile.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jul 17, 2015, 05:31 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If alerter is still in an emotionally sensitive state perhaps she should not post on DU till she heals. How is the person alerted on supposed to know alerter's emotional condition? Can't post on contentious issues and then when challenged say Oh I'm a poor widow.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Sorting through this convo takes too long
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerter, this is a worthless alert. I can't think of a single instance where "Yeah, right" is against the TOS or community standards. Please, I think Nance Greggs is old enough, smart enough, and diplomatic enough that she can handle this on her own. Leave.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is bile.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Autumn]

337. Thanks for the results.

[beam me up scottie]

369. Maybe the third time will be the charm.

Seriously, people can read the bile Nance posted in response to the op's heartfelt plea for understanding and decide who the monster is for themselves.

It ain't you.

[840high]

144. Your reality. Of course you're

such an expert.

[NanceGreggs]

146. One doesn't have to be "an expert" ...

... to acknowledge that reality exists.

[sabrina 1]

320. It depends on what reality you are talking about. The OP IS the reality for millions

Americans and the only candidate in this race who understands that is Bernie Sanders. That is why all the predictions two months ago turned out to be so wrong. The status quo in DC doesn't have a clue, and we can see that by their supporters here, why Bernie is continuing to make headway, going from being someone no one ever heard about to the most serious challenge to the 'front runner'. I put that inside commas because you can't be a 'front runner' when you're the only runner.

Hillary's numbers have dropped for the '80s to hovering around the early '60s '50s as people learn about Sanders. He has a long way to go regarding people even knowing who he is, but once they do, they are sold.

That is OUR job and so far we are doing a great job. In just two months he has risen from no recognition to being a real challenge in this campaign and this is only going to keep improving as his supporters introduce him to more and more people.

[DesertFlower]

65. that's a dumb statement.

[tularetom]

13. Wow, that was kind of a snotty remark

You may not agree with this posters choice of candidates, but he/she seems to be having a pretty rough time. Sarcasm won't solve anything.

[Oldenuff]

15. Ar least we would have a President who would be bringing up

issues that are important to the average American instead of delivering for Corporate America...unlike a certain other candidate that is no better a choice than she was the last election cycle.

I simply cannot understand why people still champion candidates who aren't worth the effort to vote for.And don't give me that "would you rather have another Republican President"?Truth is,I don't really see much difference anymore...maybe the party name.If the only reason is to get the first woman President,then that is a pi** poor reason.

[NanceGreggs]

22. If you believe that there is no difference ...

... between the parties, you've already lost all credibility.

[Indepatriot]

49. Did I mis the "magical" part in the OP? cause I sure don't think that was in there...

If you can't respect where this person is coming from I don't know what to say. No "Magical" solutions were mentioned. Only disgust with the system and the choices that system gives us. Please don't discount the heartfelt OP with such a trivial dismissal of their hard-earned observations about their own life. We expect better from you Nance.

[IVoteDFL]

64. Not magic, but the power of the people

I saw him speak when he was here in Minnesota. He told us straight out that he can't do it alone.

Bernie has the chance to utilize many of the 99% simply by telling the truth.

[cui bono]

70. So you think Hillary will?

[NanceGreggs]

92. Will what?

Change everything overnight?

No, of course not. Never thought Obama would either.

But that's because I'm a realist, and recognize the limitations of any POTUS - along with the determination of every Republican to obstruct any and every proposal that emanates from our side of the aisle.

Campaign rhetoric is a wonderful thing. It speaks of vision and hope, and points to what, in a perfect world, the nation would look like, could be like.

However, when one clings to campaign rhetoric - or insists that it is not rhetoric, but a promise - one is not dealing with the realities that must not diminish idealism, but should channel into working towards those ideals.

[bvf]

110. Well, you've certainly won over everyone here

with your childish insistence that you can read their minds.

No, really.

[NanceGreggs]

113. I never claimed to be able to read minds.

What I am capable of is reading what gets posted here.

I don't believe psychic ability is necessary to read posts on a message board - do you?

[bvf]

118. Why don't you just tell me what I believe

like you did for someone else here?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1251&pid=450526

Enough of your babble.

[NanceGreggs]

119. Your link doesn't work. n/t

[bvf]

122. Perhaps if you weren't so quick to pounce.

Try again, you eager thing, you.

[NanceGreggs]

125. So pointing out the fact ...

... that your link didn't work means I'm "eager to pounce"?

This really IS bizzarro world.

[bvf]

132. No, doing so within a mere 10 seconds makes you so.

Funny, you seemed like such a nice person until you posted something.

[NanceGreggs]

136. I had been away from DU ...

... for several minutes, while posting on another message board. When I brought the DU screen back up, your post was there. I responded to it.

The fact that you're trying to make an issue of it brings me back to the "I'm rubber and you're glue" school of thought ...

[NanceGreggs]

124. Delete n/t.

[NanceGreggs]

131. You think THAT response ...

... to someone saying, "alternatively, we should just accept our crappy lot in life," is somehow telling someone what they believe?

The poster STATED what they believe - there was no guesswork involved.

[bvf]

138. What the poster stated isn't the issue.

Your addle-pated response (which you seem unable to own up to) is.

Go bother somebody else, if anyone else is still responding to your dreck.

[NanceGreggs]

140. "What the poster stated isn't the issue."

No, nowadays it never is.

[cui bono]

358. So then making that point about Sanders is... well... useless and somewhat hypocritical. n/t

[billhicks76]

105. Regardless Hillary Still Stinks As A Democrat

It's all about how hard one tries. Bernie would be light years ahead of Obama too. O'Malley just came out in support of $15/hr minimum wage. What's Hillary going to do?

[NanceGreggs]

108. I suppose the appropriate response here would be ...

... I know you are, but what am I?" Or how about, "I'm rubber and you're glue...?"



"Hillary still stinks as a Democrat." Well, there's an enlightened view of the political landscape.

[artislife]

111. There are quite a number of sad things in this OP

One, is the fact that someone is working poor, surrounded by good people who cannot afford to help themselves with physical pain or disease.

Two, the responses of tone deafness and staying on message is the most important thing one can do on this site

Three, not being able to hear this in themselves because they must win the internet at all costs..



There are millions of us, who are living paycheck to paycheck. We owe student loans, we are being pushed out of housing by the high rents. Wealthy communities vote no on public transit so the buses we take to work don't run as often or are chopped. We look on Craigslist and see a job for hire. They want photoshop skills, infusion soft marketing knowledge, floating hours and the tasks of what would have taken 2 or more people. At the end of it, you see the pay at $10-15 an hour.

We don't want magic. We want access!

[senz]

155. And you know something, artislife? You deserve it.

You sound smart, talented, hardworking -- but, as Elizabeth Warren noted, the system is rigged against you. It wasn't always this bad. Reaganomics and the globalism that followed it have ruined this country for working people, especially the younger generations.

Let's try to get Bernie elected. He's doing his part -- beautifully. But he needs the rest of us to make it a revolution.

[artislife]

158. Such nice words.....cheers

Yes...let's get that man in the White House!

[Dr Hobbitstein]

233. Hillary, as a Senator, fought for minimum wage hikes

and she supports the $15/hr minimum wage that ALL the Democratic candidates support.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/06/07/hillary-clinton-sounds-populist-note-at-fast-food-workers-convention/

[jeff47]

273. Nope, She came out for $12.

The article you cite does not actually have Clinton coming out for $15. Instead, she "echos" that union's rhetoric. She has also supported local efforts for $15/hr, but has been mum about national efforts.

She's actually been quite vague on what the national minimum wage should be. The closest we have to a number for the national minimum wage is her support for the $12/hour bill proposed by Democrats in the House.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

276. I support the $12/hr bill, too.

It's a big start. However, Hillary was showing support for a rally who's SOLE purpose was to rally for the $15/hr min wage. No, she didn't come out and explicitly say it, but she threw her support behind those who were pushing it. "...thank you for marching in the streets to get that living wage."

That living wage. The $15/hr wage they were rallying around.

[jeff47]

278. There's a large chasm between "showing support" and supporting $15/hr.

I don't think we can trust "living wage" to mean any particular number without an explicit statement. Especially when it's so easy to say "$15/hr" in the place of "living wage".

[LostinRed]

112. I think we learned that with Obama

If Sanders wins the election, he won't be able to do anything except for Federal employees just like Obama. Unless Dems have full control of the legislative branch nothing is going to get done.

[George II]

134. Sadly, if elected, he will most likely be the most ineffective President of our lifetimes....

...not that he intrinsically will be ineffective, but he will have ZERO support of republicans and mixed support from Democrats.

It will be four years of either marking time or marching backward. Thankfully we don't have to worry about that possibility.

[NanceGreggs]

137. Thankfully, we don't. n/t

[Jester Messiah]

210. Your argument is that Hilary could pull Republican support?

The republicans viscerally despise Hilary! It's an article of faith for them. Meanwhile they at least grudgingly respect Bernie because he says what he means and has consistently said the same thing for all of his career. No waffling, no triangulation, no finger-in-the-wind bullshit. Hell, Bernie could actually pull some voters out of the R column, because even some of THEM are tired of the same old bullshitters.

[dflprincess]

293. Oh I'm sure she could

at least on issues that we can put in the same class as the TPP and helping Wall Street. Maybe on more wars on defense spending as well.

One thing we should have learned is that a president who can get Republican support may not be such a good thing for most of us.

[NorthCarolina]

214. So, what Democrats would not support Bernie if elected?

I'll start you out on that list as I know Claire McCaskill is definitely on it. What other Democrats do you think would buck a President Sanders?

[Babel_17]

287. "ZERO support of republicans and mixed support from Democrats" So, like President Obama?

But presumably with a cabinet and other appointments more to the liking of Progressives?

I'm sold! Where do I sign up?

[madokie]

148. Naw, Nance its Clinton who will do all that

magically change the world for the better, NOT. We have a much better chance of changing our situation with a Bernie Sanders than we do with a Hillary Clinton. if I was a betting man I'd bet the farm on that one. Hillary is more of the same, Bernie is a path to a different world. If we can get behind Bernie and elect him we'll also change the face of the congress and with that Sanders and a democratic controlled congress will change the world we live in. Hillary will continue on the path we've been on for over half a century now. Shit for us started going down hill with the assassination of JFK. When tricky dick was forced out the 'CONs went on steroids. shortly after his resignation one of the gop think tanks said that if they wanted to get their message out they need to buy up our press, papers, magazines and airwaves and since then they own or control almost all of them. The last thing we need right now is another person in the white house who is beholden to the rich man as Hillary is.

Bernie Sander will win this, both our primary and the general election too.
Other than on here at DU I don't know a soul who say they'll vote for Hillary. On the other hand I know a few dozens of died in the wool republiCONs who say they're looking at voting for Sanders or have already made up their mind that they'll be voting for Sanders. I get out and I talk to people. I'm easy to talk to and I take advantage of that in talking about Sen Sanders and the response I get is awesome.

[NanceGreggs]

150. I'm a realist.

And I never said that Hillary will do all that. Nor did I say that any one candidate would, or could.

As to the rest of your response - well, it's not even worth commenting on.

But I will say that given that the vast majority of Democrats are supporting HRC, I find it truly - uh - amazing that you don't know a single soul who say they'll vote for her. Maybe you should ask Democrats that same question, and see what response you get.

[madokie]

160. Not a single democrat I've talked to yet says they'll vote for Hillary

I didn't say you said anything I made it plain that I said that.
Then why are you commenting on what I said then

Hillary is not on our side, simple as that. Unless of course you make a hell of a lot more money than we do. Anyways I wonder if you make enough to be of any interest to Hillary

[NanceGreggs]

164. I just find it rather ... "unbelievable" ...

... that given HRC's poll numbers, you have NEVER met a single person who is supporting her.

As I said, that is just rather ... unbelievable.

[madokie]

168. Well believe it

I talk to a lot of people as I do get around and like I said I talk to people, whether we're pumping gas, standing in line at the grocery store or taking a stroll in the park. I'm easily approachable and people talk to me because I talk to them, not at them or down to them so I make a lot of friends and I've yet to have talked with a fellow dem who says they'll vote for Hillary. I'd say 3 our of 4 'CONs I've talked to have so far though. Pretty much all I get from dems is I don't trust her.

[NanceGreggs]

169. Yeah, well ...

That all sounds ... plausible. Sure.

[madokie]

172. Anything else you'd like to say?

I'm done with this for now as I'm off to bed because I've got a full plate tomorrow. Would you like for me to take notes and report back to you about what the people who I'll surely be coming into contact with tomorrow have to say on this matter? I carry a pen and a folded up piece of paper in my pocket at all times so I have something to write on in case I want to jot something down.

[NanceGreggs]

173. Oh, don't trouble yourself.

I have no doubt that every word you say is an absolute fact. Really.

[NorthCarolina]

216. Polls are only as good as the pollsters.

They already used the gambit of including candidate(s) who have not even announced for the sole purpose of keeping Bernies numbers lower than the reality. If you view him as no threat, then why spend so much time in threads such as this attempting to discount and discredit the statements of anyone posting in favor of Sanders? Seems as though your actions belie your proclamations.

[Dawgs]

219. I know two.

Of course that's two out of out about 20.

[Laser102]

307. I'm a democrat. I am voting for Hillary.

[madokie]

315. I didn't realize you lived near me, mybad

just kiddin'

I'm not saying no democrat is voting for Hillary rather I said of the local democrats I've talked to, friend and strangers none of them as of yet say they'll be voting for Hillary in the Primary. All are saying that if she wins the primary they'll vote for her. They're democratic party people after all.

[PatrickforO]

176. At least he will TRY, which is more than we can say for

Third Way Dems.

[IVoteDFL]

218. Bingo

[raven mad]

199. Nance, that was just nasty.

And not appreciated.

[democrank]

200. NanceGreggs.....

What a condescending reply to IVoteDFL who was expressing difficulties both he and his mother are having. I`d like to think members of a Democratic web site would favor empathy over iciness when responding to another member`s troubles.

One of the most asinine themes I read here are from members who aver that once a Democratic politician reaches a certain height in the party hierarchy, allegiance to him/her must be declared and maintained. Citizens, even those who occasionally disagree on principled grounds, must remain silent.

I support Bernie Sanders as well, and for very solid reasons....none being that I think he`s a Miracle Worker who will ship all my ponies to me via Overnight Express Delivery.

[LWolf]

232. You seem to be the only person who "knows" that.

Sanders himself sure as hell doesn't promise that.

Of course, we're a hell of a lot more likely to start moving forward with someone who's determined to fight to do so.

[Stargazer99]

239. It will be a hellva lot better than the present even if he has no magic

[Jackilope]

248. And as we all know ...

She will have to talk "progressive" on the trail, but of course, cannot really follow through. She will accept $$$$ from Monsanto and ExxonMobil -- but, oh, she must really be for us?

We just arrive a little slower to serfdom and the slaughter house with Corporate Dems, but make no mistake, we still are headed there.

Mock us for backing the one candidate that isn't bought and paid for and give yourself a gold star for thinking you are the realistic one.

[olegramps]

255. Who says that this isn't exactly what she has worked for. Especially for women.

[eridani]

381. The women of Iraq and Libya are certainly grateful for her help in turning their countries--

--into chaotic shitholes. Because women always do so well in the war of each against all.

[grahamhgreen]

261. It's not magic. It's the right policy choices.

[Avalux]

269. Maybe you need to listen to Bernie's message.

He can't and won't magically change everything overnight, and he very clearly states that WE have to do it. It's the same concept that was started with Obama; Bernie is continuing it.

When will we figure that out? Putting our hopes into a Mommy or Daddy to take care of us is wrong. Everyone has to step up and change the status quo.

It may not happen with Bernie, but he is at least speaking the empowerment message.

[davidthegnome]

279. I get sarcasm, but this is a little extreme.

I don't believe that anyone thinks someone, regardless of who, is going to fix our problems overnight. The issue for me is that it seems very likely that Bernie Sanders will at least TRY to resolve many of these issues mentioned in the OP. If you can't see the struggling and the suffering that happens in this Country every day as a result of bad policies, corruption and greed... I don't know what to tell you.

Clinton has ties to a lot of the big corporations - has served on their boards, is running a campaign funded by the big boys. You know, I would love to have a female President, I really would. However, I would prefer that she have integrity, as well as at least a vague understanding of what the working people in this Country are actually going through.

When our choices are between a campaign supported by labor and a campaign supported by the corporate elite, I can tell you where my support is going to go. Of course, I am not a corporate executive, I don't have a dime in the stock market, a fancy house or car. I'm a fairly average American with student loan debt and medical debt. My health insurance is on shaky ground due to a recent job loss and job change.

I simply don't understand why I would vote against my own best interests. I currently work as a bar tender, making just about minimum wage plus tips (well, I'll get tips when I'm finished with training, I think). My life, frankly, has consisted of one shitty job after another - and higher education, on top of being insanely expensive, doesn't seem to be enough for a whole lot of people to find work that pays a living wage.

No one is going to change any of this overnight, but I'm willing to give Bernie eight years to try. What I'm not willing to do is support the continued greed, corruption, theft and bull shit of corporate America.

I won't be fooled again. My vote is going for Sanders - and if he fails to secure the nomination, very reluctantly for Clinton... maybe. A lot of the snark and outright condescension I've seen from a lot of Clinton supporters has made me consider resorting to a write in if Clinton wins.

Only so much time remains to repair our failing infrastructure, our failing world, our failing economy and our failing social structure. For once, I'd love to vote for someone who I believe will at least get the ball rolling.

[Babel_17]

283. Sounds like you are using the OP as a launching pad

I think this particular OP should be taken straight on. Had the shoe been on the other foot, and a HRC supporter posted their version of the same, (speaking of HRC's commitment to issues important to them, and a moving account of their life situation) I think it fair to say you'd want everyone to respect that, and not use that post in a cavalier fashion to deride it.

[rbnyc]

286. Bernie has said again and again...

...that no one can be effective without a strong grassroots movement remaining actively involved. He correctly identified Obama's biggest mistake, saying to the movement that got him elected, "Thanks a lot. I'll take it from here. I'm gonna sit down with Mitch McConnell now and be civil and work things out."

Right now, our party leaders go to Washington with a community of insiders and corporate interests. Bernie intends to go to the White House with US.

[LynneSin]

294. That's what they said Obama would do in 2008

and as much as I adore Bernie, he will not magically change things overnight should he become President. Not while the GOP controls the House and the Senate can be filibustered.

Until Gerrymandering is banned I don't see how Bernie is going to do any better with Congress. We had a good ruling to help break gerrymandering but next cycle won't be until 2020.

I need to make sure ther is a democrat in the White House so we can get SCOTUS back.

[sabrina 1]

382. No he won't. Nor has he or his supporters ever claimed that, in fact they and he

are very realistic about what one president can do, UNLESS that person has the intelligence to understand WHAT he will need in order to begin to unravel the harm that has been done. Which is why this is no ordinary campaign, it isn't just about the WH race.

Thankfully those who support him understand that. It's probably difficult for people who have become accustomed to and accepting of the status quo to imagine anything else.

[restorefreedom]

4. you just made his case

better than anyone i have heard.

[IVoteDFL]

221. Wow thank you. that is a high honor

There are millions out there struggling. If we all come together and start sharing our stories I think many more people will become aware of how badly the government has been handling income inequality. I'm happy to do my part.

[restorefreedom]

229. definitely will help in a huge way imo. of course the voters need to hear from bernie

but it is very compelling to hear from non pols just trying to live life. more people will realize what bernie wants to do to improve the quality of all of our lives.

[onehandle]

6. Hillary is going to be our Nominee and our Next President.

I wish you well.

[Snotcicles]

16. Was that really necessary? nt

[HooptieWagon]

28. Theres always that team Hillary sense of entitlement on display...

Even when someone is struggling.

[NorthCarolina]

217. Well, they likely also have

the Diebold advantage, so that's why they feel they can be so flippant towards anyone that dares to challenge the status quo by supporting a non-Wall Street approved candidate.

[SusanCalvin]

252. I'd hate to think

that a Democrat would behave as I think you are implying, but I guess one never knows...... (Or at least one should adopt that view as a policy, much the way that I like many people but, as a policy, completely trust extremely few.)

I'm always happy to see that I'm not the only one who remembers that the mechanisms put in place by HAVA are very much still there.

Or maybe I just completely misunderstood - it's my specialty!

[J_J_]

317. Diebold advantage, so that's why they feel they can be so flippant

The Diebold advantage, so that's why they feel they can be so flippant towards anyone that dares to challenge the status quo

Well they certainly aren't winning people over with their tactics or policies.

[MissDeeds]

211. They're not doing their candidate any favors

with comments like this.

[Babel_17]

284. I'm sure it's gotten bookmarked by many,

and this thread gives it a lot of context.

Edit: If you look at the reply, the first in the thread, with that HRC avatar, it's easy to imagine that it's HRC saying that to the OP. I don't see that as helpful.

[peacebird]

32. Nice. Especially since, if true, she will immediately develop 'amnesia' about any progressive policy

And revert to her center right, corporate friendly self

[kenfrequed]

38. Well

At least you aren't being sarcastic and snotty about it like the other poster who responded.

I wish you well no matter who is elected. But I am going to be working like hell to make sure it is Bernie Sanders.

[Phlem]

68. ...

[magical thyme]

206. um, thank you for your edict.

[DanTex]

7. You make a good case. What I'd say is, all the reasons you listed are also reasons

why we need to make sure a Democrat wins the White House in 2016.

[SunSeeker]

149. +1

[IVoteDFL]

227. Of course I think that Hillary is better than the Republican alternatives

but I'm very tired of choosing the lesser of two evils. Hillary is just too close to Wall Street and big banksters for my tastes.

[DesertFlower]

380. so you think a republican will be better.

that is so asinine. i couldn't sleep and got on-line and now i'm pissed seeing all these stupid remarks about people who will not vote for hillary.

bernie is my choice, but if hillary is the nominee she will get my full support. why? because i'm a democrat.

[BrotherIvan]

8. I hear you

I know a lot of people who are struggling. They need help. Sanders as president won't change everything. Citizens standing up together and demanding changes will. We have a cultural problem where we have been taught since 30 years of Reaganomics, that we can ignore the poor, ignore the lower classes, ignore people of color, ignore communities that look like wastelands. We've been taught to worship the rich and serve corporations. We let them start wars for profit and steal our treasury for their own ends.

Only if we stand up together and reimagine a country that prizes people over profits will we get anywhere. We need universal healthcare, education and jobs. We need equality for all races and all genders. We need to say that people living in poverty and hungry and sick is not ok. There is a callousness in our country that needs to change.

[lovemydog]

12. Very true

Brother Ivan!

[cascadiance]

34. Bernie himself might not be able to change everything... But he looks to try to do what he can!

... and in just about every way he lists on his platform, I back up his plan! Yes, we need a congress and a supreme court, amongst other things to help realize a lot of those goals, but I want someone in leadership who will TRY to lead us in the right direction and will where he's able. Obama on the other hand has TRIED to push TPP/TPA on us, and Hillary has been absent on this too. And we know how the "obstructionist" Republicans chose this battle to work lockstep with the president? Why? Because we know that big money is calling the shots on both Republicans and these corporate Democrats on issues like these!

Sooner or later many will join us in pushing for Bernie to be president as they discover he's working for all of us on issues like these spiritually, and not against us like so many others do when the money speaks the other way. Just about anyone else winning the presidency, we run the risk of them standing in our way if the grass roots wants to really push more people-centric solutions.

[Enthusiast]

73. Very well said! As usual. nt

[historylovr]

175. Well said, and amen!

[Admiral Loinpresser]

10. No more business as usual. K & R! n/t

[lovemydog]

17. I understand what you're saying.

I hope we get a strongly progressive Congress this time around too. Because we need a living wage! Take care IVoteDFL. I hear you!

[HappyPlace]

19. "I would LOVE to have a woman president, but I NEED Bernie Sanders."

You speak for me, IVoteDFL.

You speak for many of us.

[Raine1967]

23. With every respect: You did not say why you cannot support Clinton. You

did, however list off things that you would like to see resolved and alleviated thru the government. (and I want that too)

I m truly sorry about what has happened to you and where you are. But you did not explain why you can't support her.

We all should take the primaries seriously. I know that I sure as hell am.

[IVoteDFL]

66. At the end of the day I think that Hillary is better friends with corporations than people

She is out of touch with people like me. Maybe I am wrong, who knows. I can't afford to see her.

[Raine1967]

115. I truly appreciate that answer.

Full disclosure: I am an O'Malley supporter.

[IVoteDFL]

260. I like what I've heard from O'Malley as well

The media hasn't been covering him too much, and sadly I don't have a whole lot of time to do my own research so what I have heard is very small. I do know that he is committed to the environment which is something I also strongly support.

[Stargazer99]

245. I'm thinking the same as you

[William769]

27. You should have watched Hillary's town hall today.

She is speaking to those issues.

So sorry you are having a rough time.

[peacebird]

36. Sadly she is speaking to the issues now, but I do not trust her to act on them if elected. She said

no to a new Glass Steagal.
She said no to breaking up too big to fail

So apparently she will give us some social issue candy, but continue to protect the banksters and wallstreet.

They don't care about the candy, they DO care about serious reform of WallStreet banks. They are giving an equal amount to Hillary and Bush. So clearly they think their money is spent well, regardless of who wins

[William769]

42. Did you watch the town hall meeting?

[peacebird]

51. The question is: Hillary is now sounding like Elizabeth and Bernie. Why should I trust her?

She can mouth all the progressive platitudes about holding banks to account etc, and then her campaign says she will NOT support a new Glass Steagal or breaking up too big to fail banks. And I realize she is simply mouthing Elizabeths words, trying to sound like a progressive. In reality she IS a corporatist DLC/DNCer.

[William769]

55. So I take it the answer is no.

I know many people that talk about something without the facts. They never win either.

Have a nice evening.

[peacebird]

57. Assume much?

[William769]

60. You didn't answer me so I had no choice.

That's how assume works.

Now have a good evening.

[Phlem]

78. Because one town hall makes all the difference in the world!?

Nice try but Bernie as a track record you can research that is very consistent. The message has stayed the same for 40 plus years.

One townhall is going to trump all that?

I don't think so.

[rbnyc]

290. Listening to a speech is not facts.

I think you are being dismissive. I'm sure we all concede that Hillary is speaking to many important issues. What we doubt is both intention and capacity to act on them. The reason we doubt that is because what is needed to act on these issues is to dismantle the machine from which she benefits.

This is the issue we are trying to explore. Pointing to a speech and then saying, well, we can't talk about this unless you heard that particular speech is essentially a logical fallacy.

[DanTex]

43. Umm, the OP wasn't talking about Glass Steagall.

The reason this was a good OP is because it didn't say anything dumb like "if only Glass Steagall passed, I would be able to afford college." The post you responded to is correct. Hillary is also speaking to the issues the OP mentioned.

[peacebird]

56. Hi Dantex, appreciate you pointing out something that has no relevence to what I posted.

Fun thing about message boards, the OP is but a starting point. Not the end.

Have fun! Oh, and thanks for your 'concern'

[DanTex]

59. You're right, Glass Steagall is irrelevant here. Problem is, you were the one who brought it up.

You probably got your Hillary-bashing talking points mixed up. It happens.

[Ed Suspicious]

67. What does Hillary do for you that Bernie does not?

Serious question. After the election, what positions of Hillary's do you find more palatable than Bernies? Is it simply that you don't think he can be elected? Well that just takes votes. After election why is Hillary better than Bernie?

[DanTex]

82. Basically, I just don't think he can get elected.

[retrowire]

97. no Hillary supporter

has an answer for this question.

their only answer is because they think she's a "safe bet" smh

[SusanCalvin]

253. "I do not trust her to act on them if elected."

Exactly.

And, yes, I would vote for her in the general. Because SCOTUS.

[IVoteDFL]

77. I promise I will watch it this weekend

when I have some extra time

[artislife]

107. Take care

Sending you my best.

[Jester Messiah]

81. Talk is cheap.

And she seems to change her mind a lot. Bernie has been consistently on the same message for decades.

[senz]

162. Interesting how long it took her to discover the bread-and-butter issues. n/t

[magical thyme]

208. so now Hillary prefers single payer over mandated private insurance? nt

[Maedhros]

263. As Obama so painfully demonstrated to us, there is a vast gulf between

"speaking" and "doing."

I believe that Candidate Hillary, just like Candidate Obama, will say whatever she thinks will win her the election. Once in office, she will pack her cabinet with Wall Street insiders and give us the finger.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[SamKnause]

29. You speak for millions !!!

I wish you well.

I hope Bernie is our next president.

[Sancho]

39. No President is going to magically get anyone a raise.

There are some policies and politicians who could help, but with a GOP Congress it's a big fight no matter who wins a national election.

The key to winning back America is to win the vote. Right now, millions are unable to register, others can't get to the polls, and many live here for a lifetime undocumented. Districts are gerrymandered. NO 1 is that Democrats need to get to vote and count the vote. That would create Democratic state legislatures, governors, majorities, and defeat ALEC.
Only with majority legislatures and Congress can we win regulations, minimum wages, and tax the richest. Unfortunately, it must start with voting reforms.

The next key is to organize labor, win transparent salary information, fight for your coworkers whenever you can. United we stand! Everyone can do that no matter who you are or what job you have.

Bernie has been telling the same story for decades, and economic inequality is a problem for capitalism that needs improvement, but don't be fooled though - Bernie's message is not going to happen because of a speech and an excited crowd.

[Ed Suspicious]

72. A major strength in Bernie's message is election reform. Fixing the Citizens United debacle is

of the utmost importance to Bernie. Bernie truly wants to see one person one vote as the standard. Votes need to trump money in Bernie's world.

Also, Bernie is very much a friend of organized labor.

[Sancho]

103. Maybe...

Citizen's United won't be fixed without a Democratic Congress plus some new SC judges.

The biggest group of voters who are not represented today are 20-30 million undocumented Americans. In Fl, about 25% of the population was born outside of the US. Vermont is one of the few NE states that does not have tuition equity for immigrants (unlike NY and MD for example). Our immigrant community have noticed it since Bernie has been in Vermont for so long. Right now, our local immigrant groups are probably going for Hillary with Martin as second.

My analysis in the Sunbelt is that Bernie sincerely wants a more progressive economy instead of capitalism, but he may not have the best policies for most of us. My union doesn't like Bernie's proposed tax on pubic retirement funds for example.

Of course, any Democrat would be better than the GOP.

I can see that many people are frustrated by the inequities and Bernie tunes into that message. Maybe it will get people more interested in this election.

[Thinkingabout]

40. Hillary soonsored a bill that every time Congress got a raise so would the minimum wage would

Increase. It did not pass but she tried. I don't expect any candidate to wave a magic wand and fix everything. Since Hillary is talking about wage disparity, helping the middle class, etc what is different in her message than what Bernie is saying. And it dies not matter where they stand on income levels does not mean it will happen.

[djean111]

44. I find it very strange that anyone thinks a retort of well one man or woman cannot wave a magic wand

and fix everything is even logical. Yes, we know that. We just feel better if Bernie is the person with the wand. Why is that so hard to understand?
The really odd thing is some are saying oh, the president is sort of just a figurehead and Congress won't work with them - okay, then why care if it is Bernie and not Hillary? Actually, I think Bernie will do better with a GOP Congress that is already spending time and money on Benghazi and emailgate. You think Hillary will wave a magic wand and make the GOP Congress back off and work with her? I sure as hell do not, and I cannot understand why anyone would think so.

[MisterP]

48. plus, y'know, Honduras, Libya, Pakistan, Syria

[Maedhros]

264. Hillary strikes me as someone who really enjoys foreign military intervention.

She likes flexing military muscle, and that kind of politician is unacceptable to me.

[Marie Marie]

53. I am very sorry for all that you and your family are going through.

[abelenkpe]

58. Hoping the nominee is one who takes

A strong stance against offshoring.

[Flatpicker]

69. I admit

That Hillary is not my choice and I will vote Sanders if the option is available.

That said, if it's Hillary vs any Rebublican come 11/2016, I'm pulling the Hillary lever.

Better Liver and Onions over Steamed Shit. I hope it won't come to that though.

[DesertFlower]

76. as a democrat i will

support the nominee.

[IVoteDFL]

71. Ok wow I didn't expect so many replies and I have to sleep!

Thank you to everyone who said kind words about my post. You're all very lovely people.


To the rest of you, uneducated I may be, but I promise I do not believe in magic. Bernie isn't the messiah. He is a progressive candidate with a long history of standing for progressive causes. He is my best bet in this fight.

Oh btw I am of the female variety for parties interested.

[Depaysement]

74. I like your post a lot

Not so much because it supports Bernie Sanders but more because your writing seems to capture the essence of the struggle genuinely, without pretense or pomp. A certain haughty writer could learn a thing or two from that earnest approach.

[Enthusiast]

75. K&R! Thank you, IVoteDFL. nt

[HFRN]

80. in other words

you're not going to vote for someone who considers you to be expendable

me neither

[udbcrzy2]

83. Your story is like so many

I think that is why Bernie is so popular and the turn-outs so large. People are realizing that the same-old isn't working anymore. We need a revolution and we need to have many involved in it. I hope things change for you and for the rest of us too as a result of better politics.

[DesertFlower]

84. support is one thing. voting is another.

are you saying you won't vote for hillary if she's the nominee?

[Autumn]

93. Yes this is personal. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers

and we are here for you, we can and will push through to better things. As Bernie said, this is about us, it is personal

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1280

[onecaliberal]

98. I don't know why HRC supporters don't get that

Those people struggling most will not support her. The poor and least of are hanging by a thread. Why? Not because the richest country on the face of the earth is too poor to assist them, oh no, it's because we have to give everything to those who already have an insane amount.
How can we sit back and say these people deserve their lot? So many here are spewing republican talking points.
I've read for years on DU how we are all sick of bankers and lobbyists and corporations ruling everything and owning everyone. But low and behold campaign season comes along and people are jumping on the corporatist band wagon again. No, Bernie, is not our savior. He's the ONLY candidate refusing to be bought off by corporations.
I keep hearing about how you've got to accept the PAC money to win. We said the same thing about Obama. Here we are 8 years later and nothing has changed. Sounds like insanity to me. At what point do the corporate supporters say enough?

[cstanleytech]

101. This isnt the BU nor is it the HU its the DU but your welcome to support Bernie, meanwhile

I will support whichever democrat wins the nomination.

[YOHABLO]

106. All the things we really need won't ever get done unless we have a majority dem Congress.

[colsohlibgal]

114. Obama/Hillary

I didn't expect miracles from Obama but I didn't expect him to bring in the same old Rubin non regulation gang as his financial team. Or collaborate with republicans on another disastrous trade deal worse than the previous ones.

I expected him to go hard after the Wall Street bosses who sanctioned massive and blatant fraud - not one of them spent a day in jail.

This from a man who is on video while running saying we really had to reign in Wall Street.

Hillary is playing it smarter, she's saying good things but is a bit short on any real detail. I just don't trust her to not go neo like her hubby.

Plus she voted for Dubya's illegitimate first strike war. That showed either gullibility or fear of bucking the current.

I trust Bernie to live up to what he's saying more than HRC, he hasn't been collecting $200,000+ checks from speeches to Goldman Sachs Execs.

[George II]

129. Thank you, but will you still here on DEMOCRATIC Underground if Clinton wins the nomination?

[QC]

130. K&R for pissing off most of the right people.

I'm sure the rest will be along shortly.

[senz]

180. They're rather easily pissed, aren't they?

Sigh. Looks like it's going to be a long, long primary.

[QC]

193. Very long, I'm afraid.

This primary is going to make the last one look like an ice cream social at the Chi Omega house.

[draa]

133. Sorry to here of your troubles OP

If nothing else Bernie can change the National discussion and the Democratic Party.

Right now there's not enough Democrats trying to do that. Most don't even try. Currently they let one or two people like Warren do the dirty work while the rest maintain the status quo. That gives the illusion that they are helping when they are only helping the 1%. They are beholden to the same big money corporate interests that the Republicans are. They tell us "we're here to help" while taking cash from the people doing the most damage. They protect the very problems we want to fix. Hopefully Bernie can change that if nothing else.

[840high]

145. Welcome to DU.

[draa]

151. Thanks

but I've been a member for years. Mostly a lurker since I rarely have anything to add. Usually someone else says it better and with more knowledge. I do read DU daily though so there's that. I just believe Bernie is worth the effort so I threw my 2 cents into this thread. Thanks again.

[MADem]

139. How is Bernie going to get you the pay you want, when he can't get a single member of Congress to

endorse him?

The President doesn't rule by decree. CONGRESS makes law, not the executive.

You're not showing me how a guy who doesn't have a single Congressional endorsement is going to magically raise the minimum wage.

Seems to me you should be backing the candidate with a few FRIENDS in Congress, who can maybe call in a favor or two. That candidate is not Senator Sanders.

[senz]

159. Bernie's gone straight to the people. And so far, they (we) love him.

You can't deny that, either. So cool it with the Bernie putdowns, okay?

[MADem]

171. He's gone straight to the people in red states--- he won't win in a general.

You don't pass bills without friends in Congress. It's nice that you and others "love him" but without delegates, he's toast. Legislators are a huge percentage of the super-delegates--and he has yet to get an endorsement from even ONE of them.

And pointing out political realities is not "Bernie putdowns" so your lame characterization is rejected out of hand.

Pro tip--this is a political DISCUSSION site, and this forum is for all POVs on the Democratic nomination process--if you want the cheerleader group, you're in the wrong area.

I see you signed up here in 2010, but have only started posting in the last few months. I would suggest you maybe read the TOS, it might help you fit in--accusing people of engaging in "putdowns" when they aren't doing anything of the sort MIGHT be construed as disruptive--see, your opinion isn't the only one that rules, here--and your candidate isn't the only Democrat running. Deal with that. Trying to bully people with regard to what they are 'allowed' to say about political preferences could be viewed as uncivil, and you would do well to take your own advice, and just "cool it" and not do that.

[senz]

179. Good Lord. Rather high-handed and condescending, don't you think?

Sorry if I'm not backing the same candidate as you, MADem. At least I'm not trashing her chances and saying there's no way she could win. Bernie has plenty of friends in Congress and has headed up committees there throughout his many years as a Congressman and Senator. I think he knows how to get bills passed and doubt he will be needing your advice.

Sorry you took offense at the phrase "cool it." I'm not into bullying, although it sounds like you might be.

I find it somewhat icky that you're suddenly so interested in when I joined and how long I've been posting -- and would, in fact, appreciate it if you kindly backed off on that sort of thing. Thanks, and have a nice night.

[MADem]

181. Yes, when you started telling me what I could do, that's exactly what you were.

Glad you saw how your behavior was perceived....or not. Stop telling people what they can/can't do and you'll have an easier time of it.



When you've got so few posts and start lecturing me about how I'm "allowed" to behave here, you're damn right I'll check your profile, and I won't apologize for it, either. Nothing "icky" about that at all. Maybe when you "cool it" with the snark, I'll "cool it" with checking you.


Again, you'd benefit from a read of the TOS. Now have a nice evening, yourself.

[beam me up scottie]

182. Don't bother, senz.

You could spend hours and hours going round with that poster and it'll just get you a headache.

They've been blocked from a few groups so when they lecture you about being disruptive they're projecting.

[senz]

183. Thanks, beam me up scottie. I really appreciate it.

People are the way they are for a reason, so I'll just wish this person well (and try to stay out of their way.)

[beam me up scottie]

184. I wish someone would have warned me.

I learned the hard way.

You're welcome, and welcome back!

[druidity33]

203. So Democrats in Congress

wouldn't vote with Bernie if he was Pres? I'll vote for the nominee whomever it is. I expect Democrats in Congress to support the nominee as well. What's your point? We vote for Hillary so she can trade favors? How bout we vote on the merits of the Legislation? Republicans in Congress won't endorse Bernie... but at least he's been known to work on bi-partisan bills.

[MADem]

223. If they aren't going to vote with him as a super-delegate, why would they vote with him as POTUS?

Half the reason bills pass is "because loyalty" -- quid pro quo, favors owed, etc.

Do you seriously think every YEA vote is attached to a full voiced commitment to the cause espoused in the bill? Often times, people hold their noses and vote. There is NO incentive, especially for legislators who live in "mixed" states with a vibrant GOP/independent population, to 'displease' that end of their constituency and motivate lazy voters to switch horses.

Scolding me as to the "merits" of legislation is a very Mister Smith thing to do--but it's not realpolitik. Legislators don't vote with stars in their eyes, they vote so as to piss off the fewest of their constituents, in order to keep their seats.

[underthematrix]

143. HRC or BIDEN never ever faux Dem Bernie

[JEB]

147. I too am all in for Bernie.

He is a proven fighter for the well being of American citizens over the wants of the 1% and corporate money grubbers. I'm sure that he will face massive resistance from GOP, Corporate lobbyists, Blue Dogs, but he will at least try. Let's keep the foxes out of the hen house.

[senz]

152. I am sorry for what you and too many others are going through, IVoteDFL.

Ronald Reagan started the downward slide in this country. Poppy Bush did nothing to stop it. Bill Clinton, unfortunately, contributed to it -- although he did, to his credit, raise taxes on the rich and balanced the budget. And then Dubya finished off the middle class.

Perhaps like your mom, I'm old enough to remember a better time, a time when unions were strong, the top marginal tax rate was between 75 and 90%, higher education was very affordable (none of these putrid student loans), main streets were full of mom & pop stores (very few chain stores, hardly any monopolies) and one person could make enough money working a 40-hour work week to support a family, buy a house and car, take a yearly vacation. Medical bills weren't as high, either. Furthermore, like your mom, I was diagnosed last year with RA -- and yes it is living hell. I'm feeling somewhat better lately because the methotrexate has been dosed correctly and is kicking in, helping with the pain and exhaustion. I hope your mom is seeing a rheumatologist who is prescribing methotrexate or some other DMARD for her. She needs that. I'm also allowed to take NSAIDs and stronger pain relievers as needed. Plus, I'm retired. I cannot imagine having to walk to the bus stop every day and work all day with this pain. It's horrible, and my heart goes out to your mom and to your friend who died for lack of health care. And to think some politicians still want to revoke the ACA.

Bernie remembers America before Reagan; he knows what we've lost. Unlike some other candidates, he actually cares what's happening to the majority of the people. He's not smug and full of himself.

I hope for your sake and your mom's that we will get a good Democrat in office in 2016, preferably Bernie. If not him, then maybe Martin O'Malley. Like you, I'm very unsure of Hillary.

Hang in there, IVoteDFL. I, and many others, are thinking of you. And thank you for such an eloquent post.

[IVoteDFL]

235. First I am so sorry about your diagnosis

I wouldn't wish that kind of pain on my worst enemy. I've seen it's effects and it is indeed an awful thing to live with. I am thankful that you were able to gain some control over your illness with medication. My mom does also take Methotrexate along with a biological, Humira. It's helped quite a bit, but the Humira costs an astronomical amount of money every month, which causes her a lot of stress.


I was only just born during the end of the Reagan era. He had been a hero to my religious grandparents who voted for him. My grandfather worked building and maintaining railroads and was promised certain compensation and benefits throughout his life. Which Reagan eventually took from him. Looking back on it I'm sure that many of my family's troubles started around this time. My grandparents declared bankruptcy, lost their house. Only 1 out of 4 of their children had any kind of higher education (my aunt is a registered nurse)

Although I didn't live through it I had a very wise study hall attendant, Mrs. Jones, in 7th grade who explained to us in great detail how Ronald Reagan changed American politics for the worst, especially for kids like us. She also explained very specifically how the Bush tax cuts might sound like an okay thing on paper, but in reality just cuts programs that our families relied on. Including many after school programs, local recreation centers, daycare for younger kids, pretty much every thing that poor families hoped would help to give their kids get a better chance than they had.

I do like what I've seen from O'Malley as well. I don't know too much about him, except that he is very committed to the environment which is also a very honorable cause that I care deeply about.

Thank you for your kind words of support. I too will be thinking of you and everyone here who has struggles I know I'm not alone.

[senz]

396. Hi, IVoteDFL.

Sorry to disappear w/o a response to you, but sometimes it's a bit too much to juggle stuff in RL with the often more interesting, even vital, goings on in cyberspace.

I've heard of Humira and other biologics; I think my rheumy is taking it slow with the meds to find out what works and what I can tolerate. Really sorry to hear about the costs for your mom. It's a safe bet that the pharmaceutical companies are cleaning up with this new generation of drugs, and though I can appreciate R&D costs, we know that too much of the price goes to profits that find their way into the CEO pockets.

Loved hearing about the influence of your 7th grade teacher. I was raised by extreme rightwingers, and loyalty kept me in the fold until late adolescence when good influences found, and liberated, my mind and heart. But even earlier, in jr. high, some teachers were paving the way by telling us about the ideas behind the Declaration of Independence and Constitution which gave me a lifelong reverence for our form of government. When I see righties tearing down "government," especially the aspects of government that are responsive to the needs of the people, I know how dangerous and destructive they are. We also had Civics classes, something that seems to have disappeared in recent decades, which is a real shame. To hold onto our representative democracy in the face of an attempted corporate takeover, we need to understand how it works and why it's so important.

You write well and your personal story is compelling as an argument for liberal policies. I hope that you will find a way to publish it in a wider venue. A collection of similar stories illustrating what Reagan, et.al., did to America, how their policies weakened the country and decimated the middle class, would be a very good book for someone to put together. It would probably take a while to produce, although if done as a group effort and perhaps published online, it might go faster. People relate to and learn from personal stories.

Anyway, thanks for your concern and for your contributions to a noble cause. As an older Boomer, it breaks my heart to see what Millennials are facing. I hope you guys are up to it. Take care.

[IVoteDFL]

400. Hi Senz

Don't worry about it. I work weird hours and don't make it online everyday either.

Yeah, the biologics are actually pretty scary, besides for the cost. Kind of a last resort kind of thing I think. It's good that you don't need them.

So many people have been hurt from Reagan's trickle down policies. The expensive and failed drug war. Can't forget the war on poverty and "welfare queens"

Thankfully Millennials are resilient and we do care and show up for the right candidates.

[historylovr]

174. I'm sorry you're going through so much.

[JDPriestly]

185. Thanks. Excellent post.

[marym625]

188. K&R!

I am sorry for all the suffering you and your family have gone through and are going through.


Absolutely no doubt Bernie Sanders will begin the changes needed. We need to get him a democratic Congress. And I believe, once he is elected, and good Democrats see it can be done without having to be a corporate shill, we'll have people to vote for that are similar to Bernie.

[eridani]

191. Look at it this way--she's still better than a Republican

And we still need a mass movement to help the 99% regardless of the election outcome. I'm confident that Sanders will be helping every way he can no matter the outcome. Meanwhile, let's all do our damdest to get him elected.

[6chars]

194. Remember Hillarycare?

HC put everything she had into healthcare reform in the first Clinton term. She came back in 2008 again pushing healthcare reform. If you have a problem with her, it should not be that your healthcare isn't as good as she fought for it to be.

[Rilgin]

207. Do you even know what the Hillarycare plan was?

Hillary Care had great similarities to the ACA. In both cases, the most salient point is that it deliberately kept the Insurance Companies as the entry points to the system. It was similar to a health care idea called the Aspen Plan. It was not people friendly. Basically, the exact same idea was voted down in an initiative process in California before the Clinton election.

At the time, all polls showed that Americans knew that the Health Care system was broken and people in all polls showed open ness to the Canadian and other government run health care systems.

Before the election, Clinton was supported by the big insurers. In their interest, the best thing would be for no health care reform. Second best was the system that Bill Clinton was going to put in place. Once in office, Bill appointed Hillary to a commission that was pure political theatre. After meeting with countless people, the commission dismissed single payer and public options, expanding medicaire and came up with the reform bill everyone knew was going to be adopted during the campaign.

You might actually look at the history before pointing to Hillarycare again. As said, the exact same type of reform was voted down in California mostly because it was another milktoast reform designed mostly not to upset the corporations.

[6chars]

246. Yes, I recall how the insurance industry took out ads supporting it

Harry: Our COBRA coverage is about to run out. I've got a chronic condition. If we can get insured it will cost $10,000 per month. We don't have that. What do we do?
Louise: Thanks to Hillarycare, we can't lose our coverage.
Harry: And what about our son who is stuck in a horrible job to keep coverage for our grandson with diabetes?
Louise: He can start up that business he wants to and go on the new federal health plan.

Oh yeah ,no. When the Clinton's took office after 12 years of reagen bush, the one thing she pushed for was improvig the healthcare system so people would be covered. even if t was not perfect by todays standards, it makes no sense to go against her for that. she was the fighter trying to make progress on this issue, almost did, and paved the path for Obama to do it.

[Rilgin]

305. research the history

The harry and louise ads were taken out by one lobbying group. There was a division at the time between the big insurance companies who donated a lot to bill clinton and the smaller inaurance companies who would be put out og business.

She did not foght for the plan. For amyone who followed it. It was a done deal. They made a deal with bill clinton that health care reform would be the aspen plan which like yhe aca instituionalized the big health insurance companies. Hillary was only part of the theatre of pretending this was not going to be the plan proposed by clinton. It then went down to defeat because it was a bad plan with both left and right hating it. It like the aca is not a solution it just improved insurance for some people. Thats good but it also was not the solution people were looking for and could not be sold.

[6chars]

310. not convinced

but interested in links. sounds like you have already researched it.

[Rilgin]

334. both was interested n it at the time

But also my wife worked for the California medical association at the time so was very aware of what the plan was and the politica surrounding it.

Sorry for typos but typing on phone with fat fingers.

[IVoteDFL]

215. I support a single payer option and as far as I know she does not

[Doctor_J]

308. She has said that she does not

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/hillary-clinton-likes-oba_b_4881399.html

She, like the president, believes that the insurance companies' profits are required for Americans to get healthcare.

[enigmatic]

195. I'm so sorry about what's going on in your life

Nothing else to say but

[emsimon33]

196. I agree

Unfortunately, Hillary is beholden to the same people that her husband and Obama are. She is a hawk and like too many politicians she seems to say whatever she thinks the voters want to hear while assuring her money people that she is just saying what she needs to say to get elected.

I would like a woman president but our first Jewish president is what we need right now.

[ellennelle]

205. beautifully written!

may i suggest you send the part about your life to obama? i know he's been unable to deliver all you and the rest of us need, but he does read these letters, at least some of them, and someone reads all of them.

seriously, you may not enjoy an education, but you do write beautifully; exploit that, and consider returning to school.

i'm so sorry about your friend, but truly glad you're getting the attention you deserve here.

sincerest wishes for better things ahead for you, and yes! GO BERNIE!!

[IVoteDFL]

257. Thank you, I will consider sending it along to PBO

No harm can come out of it.

I do quite enjoy writing, so your compliments mean a lot to me. Thank you again. I would love to return to school and pursue a writing career someday.

[yardwork]

226. You need a Democratic president more than a Republucan.

Every one of our problems will get far worse if Bush or Walker or any of the others gets in the White House.

[greenman3610]

230. "Because there's not a dime's worth of difference between Al Gore and George Bush"

been there.

[George II]

234. If (when) she wins the nomination and you still stand by your title above...

...you should turn in your DU membership.

[IVoteDFL]

254. Nah I live in MN

There is no chance of splitting the liberal vote here. I don't have to vote for her, per the TOS.

Even if I did show up to vote for her, which I might, I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to to support her. She wont get a penny or a phone call out of me.

[Stargazer99]

238. I am a woman and will only vote for Bernie

I also would love to have a woman president, but due to the same nasty living conditions I will stay with voting for Bernie.

[lewebley3]

259. Bernie is just on ready to be President: but I am not voting for another white male anyway

[DesertFlower]

378. even if hillary is the nominee? does that

mean you won't vote? if that's the case you and those like you who stay home might give us a republican president. is that what you want?

[lark]

247. Hillary is strongly in favor of increasing the minimum wage.

It's one of her main policies. I think she also supports single payer. If she's the general election candidate and you don't vote for her, you are in essence voting for the Repugs who want to end any healthcare subsidies or insurance controls which will make healthcare exceedingly difficult for many. You will be supporting the ending of any minimum wage and supporting the outsourcing of American jobs. I agree that Bernie is more progressive and is my candidate of choice.

However, I will not help out the repugs in any shape form or fashion and will vote for Hillary and against the Repug. Any progressive who doesn't vote is helping the other side, sorry, that's just the way it is. This isn't a perfect world.

[grahamhgreen]

262. Increasing if to what dollar amount per hour? Bernie is $15/hr..

[Maedhros]

266. I will vote for that candidate who best represents my views.

If that candidate is a Democrat, then fantastic. If not, then so be it.

Doing so is not "voting for the Republicans," so please stop with that old, tired, stupid, pathetic meme. This "with us or against us" rhetoric will not win Progressive votes - only Progressive candidates and policies will do that. And Hillary is nowhere close to Progressive.

[DesertFlower]

379. it's not a meme. it's the truth. back in '04

my husband did not like kerry so he didn't vote. after the election i spoke to many people who felt the same way so they didn't vote or went with bush.

think about the supreme court. do you want more scalia's because that's what you'll get with a republican?

[Maedhros]

390. I will not be shamed, badgered or coerced into voting for a candidate that I do not want.

If the Democrats want my vote, then they will start implementing progressive policies. Continuing Bush's "War" on "Terror", suckling at the Wall Street teat, and jamming the TPP down our throats doesn't cut it.

[jeff47]

277. Uh...no.

She has said she supports a living wage. She has yet to explicitly state what that is. The closest we have to a national number is she supports the $12/hour bill introduced in the House. She has said she supports local efforts to get $15/hour, but has not explicitly said $15/hour for the national minimum wage.

As for single-payer, she explicitly did not support that in 2008, and has not stated she supports it this time around.

[lewebley3]

258. Why I cannot support Sanders: WhyI can support Hillary as the leader of America

Sanders nice man, no accomplishments, no political skills,
and no experience on the national stage: He sat in the Senate
doing nothing until he was 73 years old.

Hilary, I can support demonstrated 26 years of loyalty
to the Dem liberal and the progressive party.

I can support Hillary, because of her education and
background, working in a small state, two the White Houses,
and elected in Her own right from large blue state twice.

She could have gone over to the GOP and made crazy
amount of money: She has always kept her heart true
to serving the American people.

I can support Hillary, because I have watch her on world stage
being attacked by the GOP, and never giving up the fight.

[IVoteDFL]

270. I hardly think that serving on the US Senate is doing nothing

It doesn't bother me that Bernie Sanders doesn't have any previous presidential ambitions. It is a breath of fresh air for folks who have absolutely had it with the status quo of government. I would also not be so generous with the loyalty bit. It was not progressive to vote for the war on Iraq, or the patriot act. Nor would she have flip flopped on same sex marriage until it was politically safe to say she was in favor of it. Sorry, I just cannot consider her to be a progressive.

I didn't think it needed mentioning, but HRC makes more in one day than I'll make all year, probably within my whole life. She doesn't need the GOP to have a crazy amount of money. She made 30 Million dollars in 2014. How much do you consider a crazy amount of money?

[lewebley3]

296. Hillary; has been involved in the polices of sharing: that is progressive

The unlike Sanders the Clinton's actually did things that
helped the American people

Clinton's' first budget raised taxes on the rich, without 1 GOP
vote.


We don't have to guess with the Clintons we lived under their
successful economy for 8 years

[rbnyc]

291. If you can't get elected to the Senate in New York...

...especially running against the likes of Lazio, you are seriously inept.

Nobody doubts that Hillary is "accomplished" and savvy.

There's a reason I put accomplished in quotes. It's because I think her accomplishments relate to her savvy. She knows how to look good on paper, and she knows how to maneuver as a Washington insider.

The problem is that our system is broken. We don't need someone who knows how to work the system. We need someone who is going to challenge the system. We need someone who can identify and attack the fundamental problems with the system, and for Hillary, that would be biting the hand that feeds her.

[senz]

299. Beautifully stated, very insightful post.

Your final paragraph especially bears repeating, and I hope to see its ideas elsewhere here and in the broader media. Actually, it might work well in one of Bernie's stump speeches. It has a nice paradigm shift quality. Perhaps you could send it to Bernie's campaign?

Thanks, rbnyc.

[rbnyc]

377. Thanks.

I posted quickly while multitasking, so when I saw there was a reply, I was worried. I'm very glad that I was clear.

[azmom]

268. I cannot support Hillary either.

She does not represent me.

[PatrynXX]

280. why I haven't left the fu**ing house yet

and I'm almost 40 Depressing!!

[Babel_17]

281. I can't add to that, you put things in a perfect nutshell

This is the reality for many of us. Politicians who don't see it or ignore it aren't relevant.

[Reter]

282. Can I ask how much you pay in health care?

Because I made a similar wage, and was told the cheapest would be $308 a month. Had to quit my job and work under the table, because I was not gonna pay that ridiculous amount.

[IVoteDFL]

384. I'm actually not sure yet

I'm not eligible until I have been there for six months, and I just started this spring after doing various temping jobs for the last two years. For now I am on Minnesota Care, which is cheap but doesn't cover everything that I probably need, like dental and vision.


300+ is waaaay too much. When I cross the road into buying insurance from the company, I'll never be able to afford that. I'll have to figure something else out.

[Hatchling]

285. I cannot support HIllary because of 2008.

I wanted her to win the nomination badly. I mean the first woman President! But Obama supporters kept bringing up these tidbits of information about her (and no I am not going back to find the posts) and by the time he won the nomination, I felt a sigh of relief.

So I blame some of my fervent support of Bernie on the 2008 Obama supporters.

[senz]

309. And for me it was Hillary's own behavior during the 2008 campaign.

Her supporters think she dropped the nicey-nice and got tough (became a "tough cookie,&quot but what I saw was someone who had let go of their own basic humanity. The dishonesty, the below-the-belt attacks on Obama, the petulant affect during debates and interviews ... my gut-level reaction was, "No, not this person, not for President of the U.S." Then, after the election, the "puma" temper-tantrums of some followers, and the revelations of her and Bill's money and power grabs, of Bill's getting chummy with the Bushes, both of them going along to get along with the 1% (many of whom are most assuredly Republicans). And, whatever happened to Chelsea to make her choose employment with a hedge fund on graduating from Stanford? Yikes. And then everything I've read about the conduct of Foundation insiders, most of whom fear crossing the Clintons by appearing the least bit "disloyal" ... well, none of that is the least bit Democratic. It's autocratic. For me, it's a total turn-off (and as I write this, I can just about feel the wrath and punitive fury of her followers who have previously sent out "alerts" about me, banned me from two threads and hidden one of my comments ... and that, in its heavy-handed extremeness, also seems unwholesome, unhealthy, and undemocratic. I do not understand their mindset, but it, too, is a huge turnoff.)

And yet, will I vote for her in the general election, should she end up with the nomination? Though I believe it would be sad for the American people to lose a real champion like Bernie Sanders or maybe even Martin O'Malley, I would vote for Hillary in the general because it would of course be preferable to any of the odd entities rummaging about in the Republican clown car. Which just shows how contemptible the Republican Party is.

Okay, here goes: press "Post my reply!"

[Beacool]

398. Oh please, it's called campaigning.

The Obama campaign flung a lot of crap too. That's how presidential campaigns are run.

[senz]

401. Campaigning can be classy and honest.

Witness Bernie Sanders.

(And I won't even roll my eyes at you.)

[Babel_17]

288. Anyone else finding this thread to affirm and validate their support for Sanders?

If so, keep it going. And K&R it.

[senz]

302. Yes, this thread goes beyond the empty back-and-forth sniping

to the place where it finally gets real. The OP's sincere, eloquent, and vulnerable self-statement opens the door to a discussion of what's gone wrong with this country and why we need a serious reformer like Bernie Sanders to adequately address it.

We need more discussions at this level of honesty and depth.

[taught_me_patience]

304. I'm going to give you some serious life advice

You shouldn't ever let who is president determine your future or your happiness. No president will be able to raise the minimum above what your are making now, college tuition will not go down, and single payer isn't going to happen for a long time no matter who is president.

According to your post, "I cannot get a better job because I lack any professional skills." Maybe go try to get some professional skills? "I cannot afford to send myself back to school to gain any skills". I have baristas that barely make more than you working at my coffee shop that somehow manage to have the time and money to go to school and live on their own. Do they have student loans?... yeah... but at least they are in school. Everyone who has graduated has gone on to a better, full-time job than a barista. If you don't want to go to school, there are jobs that pay more than $11.66/hr that you can work into. Hell, many of my baristas are making $14/$15 hr after tips. At least two got jobs purely because of effort on their part.

Tough advice, I know... but I really hope you make a better life for yourself and not have the mentality that you need a particular president to accomplish that.

I'm available for advice if you'd like to pm me.

[senz]

323. "Your" baristas?

Perhaps IVoteDFL could give you some tips on good writing. Or on the relationship between politics and economics. If you'd like to pm him or her, that is.

[Babel_17]

326. I thought HRC said she'd raise the minimum to at least $12, and up to $15

And that's going just by HRC supporters in this thread. Regarding college: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/05/22/sanders_unveils_tuition-free_college_plan.html

Regarding wages: They vary based on your local economy. The argument that better jobs exist ignores the need of society to fill these lower paying jobs. We used to have these discussions with Reagan supporters.

"I really hope you make a better life for yourself and not have the mentality that you need a particular president to accomplish that" A little long for a bumper sticker but if it suits your candidate ...

[IVoteDFL]

383. Are you actually serious?

Tell me one time where I said that I need a particular president to improve my life. In fact, I thought I said very little about myself, other than a few sentences about my job. I guess unfortunately for me I do not want to be a Barista. I'm not a great customer service person and my job is quite well suited to me, but I refuse to stay quiet about making $11 when the company I work for takes home over 2 billion in profit every fiscal year. The company could not function without people like me. My fellow co-workers deserve fair compensation as well. It's not just about me.

We all need a particular president who is committed to closing the income gap. And no, I don't think he is going to be able to do it alone. I still don't believe in magic. I believe in the People, and Bernie Sanders can mobilize them better than any other candidate running.

[taught_me_patience]

394. Maybe in your OP, where you said "I NEED Bernie Sanders"?

"I need a living wage"?

Jeez, I wonder how I got that impression. I offered you advice and help and you spurned it. You are not worth my time. Have a mediocre life. bye.

[IVoteDFL]

399. Every single working person in this country deserves a living wage

Period. These companies wouldn't be anything without it's employees. So yes, I do need a living wage.


I'm tired and I want to lose my temper, but quite honestly you aren't worth my time.

[Doctor_J]

306. Unfortunately half the people here have their fingers in their ears

Hillary's wonderful, she was already president once (for the good stuff - not for DOMA, DADT, ending welfare, war on drugs, ending Glass-Steagal, the telecommunication disaster, or mass incarceration), she's a woman, it's her turn, Sanders can't get elected because he's too liberal, and Hillary's more liberal than Sanders. Also we should welcome rule by the corporations -

after all, so many people work for them!!!! (actual quote by HRC supporter).

Well, folks, abortion rights mean little to me. Gay marriage is here to stay even though Clinton (and Obama) weren't too keen on it 7 years ago. The republican senate (meaning at least 41 of them, which is all they need to get their way) won't confirm any liberal justices. On other issues, Clinton is more like a Bush than a Sanders. So the Hillarians can call me any name they want, since whatever it is, it's not as bad as being a Republican or a DINO.

[senz]

311. Abortion rights are as close to a litmus test for me as anything I can think of.

But I cannot imagine Bernie or O'Malley or any reasonably liberal candidate not supporting them.

[beam me up scottie]

319. Bernie has always defended our right to choose.

Rated 100% by NARAL/Rated 0% by the NRLC

Much more info:

http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Bernie_Sanders_Abortion.htm

[senz]

321. What's not to love about this guy?

Hi, beam me up scottie. Your comments on this forum are always either lightening (as on the Bernie's suspicious ties thread) or enlightening. You have a great sense of humor.

One question, only when you have the time. That little green Hello Kitty with bat wings on your posts? What is that stuff that looks like a hand dangling from her chin? I've seen it other places but never bothered to ask what it was. And do the bat wings indicate a vampire? Or am I totally lost in all this stuff?

[beam me up scottie]

325. Absolutely nothing, senz.

He's a gem.

Thank you, I enjoy your posts, too. I read about your diagnosis above and I hope you feel better.

That girl in my sig line is Hello Cthulhu, a character from a web comic 'The Misadventures of Hello Cthulhu' and the dangly things are tentacles. I borrowed her from a friend and kept her as a tribute. She's very unique.


Cthulhu is a deity created by H.P. Lovecraft, I've been fascinated by him since I was a kid, you can read about him here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu

His likeness is available as a religious avatar on DU too, you might have seen him:

[senz]

397. Thanks, beam me up scottie.

I'd heard mention of H.P. Lovecraft but never read anything by him. Cthulhu sounds weirdly awesome, and whoever thought of combining him with Hello Kitty must have an amazing imagination (and sense of humor).

Now I know DU is educational!

[J_J_]

312. Thank you for illustrating what these policies are doing to Americans

So many people think politics don't matter.

But the decisions these 'leaders' make are personal, very personal.

We need to hear more stories like this, this keeps DU real, this keeps us human.

Politics is not a game.

These are real lives suffering under the callous condescending greed of compassionless rulers.

[PowerToThePeople]

318. She voted for the illegal Bush war too. n/t

[Walk away]

328. I'm sorry that you have such a hard life...

I caution you against believing that either Hillary or Bernie will be able to effect a change in your situation in the near future. You may have to look outside the political arena to find the help that you need. Are you eligible for any grants or loans that would help you qualify for a higher paying job?

[Babel_17]

329. Good tacticians picks their battlefields

I marvel that some HRC supporters picked your post as the field/pretext to fight it out. It looks like desperation, and of having lost so much ground that a thread like this which looked likely to get lots of rec's and eyeballs should be taken on, and hard.

I hope you realize that it's the passion that they have for their cause that causes any unkind words, and not any real lack of compassion for your narrative. They're good people, but it is primary season here at DU, lol.

[artislife]

338. The Red hour --great clip nt

[Zorra]

347. Well said. Corporatism is killing us. The working people of this country need Bernie. nt

[artislife]

359. Cold cold ccccold

There are just some cold responses.


Cold.


But way to prove that not all liberals are bleeding hearts.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

366. Don't approach this board believing everyone is "liberal."

But, yes, cold. And not surprising in the least, considering the source.

[artislife]

371. Good advice nt

[IVoteDFL]

385. Believe me when I say that I am used to it

Most of my extended relatives are Republicans.

btw I envy your sig line.

[artislife]

386. Don't envy, get it!

I got it in the Bernie group in the logo thread. Scroll through, I cannot remember who offered it.
Just right click and copy "the save as url" choice. It seems strange to copy an image that way, but it works!


These last 5 years have been especially tough. I know where you are

My car just broke down yesterday. I need a new starter. This is after replacing a head gasket 3 months ago. I need my car, or I can't work.
I barely get a little money together and boom

[IVoteDFL]

387. Wonderful!

I love it, thank you!!

Sadly, too many people are in the same boat. It is one of the saddest things happening in our country today. There is at least one older woman that I work with who walks to work in the sun and heat, and I assume in the winter she'll be doing the same thing in the cold and snow. I bike to work and don't even want to think about winter.

Life's little expenses can pop up and take the best of us down just when we think we are finally getting somewhere. It's a very frustrating cycle that can be very hard to get out of. Sadly, I just don't see things changing for the better until the nation gets very realistic (to borrow that word that keeps popping up) about income inequality.

Somethings that have saved me in the past are doing side projects for a little bit of money. Amazon Turk is fairly decent once you get going. I've made about $100 in a few weeks just doing menial tasks. Freelancer.com pays better, but it's a lot more competitive and generally requires more skills. Gigs on Craigslist can be helpful sometimes if all of the gigs aren't some perv trying to pay for sex without necessarily saying so. None of it is fun, but if you're desperate it might help you out a little if you can't get to work.

I very much hope for Bernie's political revolution to take hold so that many folks around the country don't have to live paycheck to paycheck without having any kind of savings for the emergencies like a broken down car.

[artislife]

388. One of the things I do to earn extra cash is pet sit

This month I will be spending only 4 days at home. That is really why I need the car. If I had a regular 9 to 5 only job, I would hop public transport.

Pets!It pays.

[J_J_]

392. K&R

Good illustration of Hillary supporters, obviously not worried about Bernie because she 'leading' in the polls.

[Beacool]

393. Yeah, because Sanders will wave his magic wand and poof, all will be well with the world.

The main problem is Congress. A president can only do so much, as Obama found out the hard way.

I will vote for the Democratic nominee. I doubt that it will be Sanders, but if he were to win, then I would vote for him. The 2016 election is far too important to go third party or stay home just because my chosen candidate didn't win. Republicans already hold the majority in Congress, I cringe to think what would happen to the country if they also held the WH.

[taught_me_patience]

395. Imagine replacing Ginsburg with another Alito

and we have to put up with 20 years of an absolute shit court.

[beam me up scottie]

402. The op relates a personal tragedy and asks for understanding and that's how you respond?

What the hell is wrong with some people?

What's really cringe-worthy is your complete and utter lack of compassion for another human being.

You just couldn't help yourself.

Pathetic.

[Beacool]

403. It's not about a lack of compassion, it's about a reality check.

Obama thought that he was going to be a transformational president. Instead, he encountered a brick wall called Congress. Even if by some miracle Sanders became president, then what? All problems will cease to exist by the mere fact that he'll be in the WH? It doesn't work that way. Presidents are not dictators, they can only do so much without Congressional support.

[beam me up scottie]

404. Now you're saying the op doesn't know how the government works?

Could you be any more condescending?

I am sick of seeing people who are hurting told they are delusional.

They are telling us that they they NEED more, that they deserve better.

They don't want a pony from a magic man, they want better lives and they know Bernie is fighting for them.

So just because Hillary is good enough for you doesn't mean the rest of us are going to settle for her.

Not without a fight.

[Beacool]

408. Hey, vote for the candidate of your choice.

It really doesn't concern me. That's what the primaries are for. I only object to those who have stated that they won't vote for Hillary if she's the nominee. That's just an asinine and selfish attitude. Any Democrat in the WH will be better than whoever the Republicans end up nominating.

[Cheese Sandwich]

406. That makes a lot of sense. nt