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Peacetrain

(22,875 posts)
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 02:13 PM Sep 2014

Rejecting people on religious or non religious basis is cutting off your nose

to spite your face..

In a December 2012 Gallup poll
http://www.gallup.com/poll/159548/identify-christian.aspx

75% Identified themselves as Christians..
2% Identified themselves as Mormons
1.7% Identified themselves as Jewish
0.6% identified themselves as Muslims
2.6% Identified themselves as other than Christians (other religious bodies.

You total that up and you are looking at over 81% of the population of the United States.

The reason I bring this up in Politics is that in the course of phone banking I talked to someone who left the Democratic Party because they felt isolated as a religious person..

You know, we have to be careful, not to push anyone aside because we may disagree with where they stand on religious or non religious grounds.. everyone and let me repeat that everyone should feel they can be a part of our party if they agree with our platform.






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Rejecting people on religious or non religious basis is cutting off your nose (Original Post) Peacetrain Sep 2014 OP
Nonsense. Whom does the Democratic party reject on the basis of religion? immoderate Sep 2014 #1
The Democratic Party doesn't.. but .... Peacetrain Sep 2014 #2
Yeah. Republicans work differently. They have this 'divide and conquer' approach... immoderate Sep 2014 #3
Ah YEP! Peacetrain Sep 2014 #4
Vigilance! immoderate Sep 2014 #5
I agree, though it's easy in anger over the perversion the RW has made of faith to forget that. Chan790 Sep 2014 #6
Thank you!! Peacetrain Sep 2014 #7
+1 Jamaal510 Sep 2014 #8
K & R. You are exactly right. cbayer Sep 2014 #9
Secular v Sectarian politics issue. haele Oct 2014 #10
Religion and politics have been intertwined since the time of the littlemissmartypants Oct 2014 #11
Christian Democrate dwpoland Oct 2014 #12
Is the religious person in question standing on my front steps? JoePhilly Oct 2014 #13

Peacetrain

(22,875 posts)
2. The Democratic Party doesn't.. but ....
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 02:30 PM
Sep 2014

the republicans are stirring religious fears up again... on the local level.. and those of us who work in the trenches phone banking, walking, can do a lot to push back on that meme from the right..and that people of faith DO have a home in our party..

 

immoderate

(20,885 posts)
3. Yeah. Republicans work differently. They have this 'divide and conquer' approach...
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 02:39 PM
Sep 2014

It allows them to carve a psychological niche -- as long as they can suppress enough votes.

--imm

Peacetrain

(22,875 posts)
4. Ah YEP!
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 02:41 PM
Sep 2014

And they are soooo good at it.. and we tend to not push back hard enough until it is too late and damage is done.. We need to nip this in the bud as they say!

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
6. I agree, though it's easy in anger over the perversion the RW has made of faith to forget that.
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 08:08 PM
Sep 2014

We need to fight for liberal moral, spiritual and faith-based values; not abandon the fight for liberal religious values and continue to allow the RW to define religious values as right-wing values.

I've been active for over a year in the campaigns of a liberal political organization for people of faith called Faithful America. If you're a liberal Christian, my fellow DUers, I encourage you to get involved with them. They do good work. I'm sure there are similar organizations that advocate for liberal religious values of other religious traditions...I'm just not knowledgeable of who they are.

Peacetrain

(22,875 posts)
7. Thank you!!
Mon Sep 29, 2014, 10:20 PM
Sep 2014

Can't wait to take a look at the site! Yep we have got to stop this letting the right define faith based values.. I am a committed Christian.. and keep track through Sojourners of many of the activities that are our there for faith based liberals and progressives..

haele

(12,646 posts)
10. Secular v Sectarian politics issue.
Wed Oct 1, 2014, 03:54 PM
Oct 2014

I think many Christians (or other religious groups) feel isolated in politics because they can feel comfortable choosing to associate primarily with co-religious people in their personal lives and living most of their lives by their personally held religious views. Unfortunately living under a representative Democracy or Republic vice a theocracy or some other mono-social government means that legally and politically, their personal religion is personal, not codified.

In effect, they've "lost power" by not being able to surround all their public dealings with their personal world view. It's frustrating and slightly shocking, as it's easy to assume that everyone else is like the religious practitioner and their circle of associates.

My very Presbyterian Step-Mother-in-Law who lives in San Antonio always has a problem with "Well, why don't they just..." when she mistakes her moral code and viewpoint as the basis of legal rights as opposed to the "additional" rights the "non-upper-middle-class(or wealthy), non-Presbyterians" around her seem to want to have - especially ones that deal with privacy, entertainment, social safety nets, worker's protection, finance, and general status under the law.

It's difficult for her to feel "included" if her religion isn't recognized as it is a major part of her life. Intellectually, she understands it's a blind spot - she's a smart woman and fair.
But she still feels attacked if someone tells her, (no matter how nicely), that they don't see why her personal religion or religious views should have any major part in a conversation about the political, legal, or personal/social rights of someone else, or that simply that being "religious" dosn't count more in a person and should'nt grant one more leeway or forgiveness than to someone who isn't.
Likewise, if you point that out or point out the hypocrisy of some of her co-religionists who take advantage of "belonging", it's an attack on her for her belief rather than simple a point of disagreement or pointing out the sins of someone else.

How can one have a serious political conversation if there is a big open pit in the middle of the conversation that one has to dance around or be perceived as "a bully" for pointing it out as a tripping hazard? No matter how many times one can say:

"of course, your personal religion is important and valuable to you, but other equally fine and good citizens have their equally important religions or viewpoints, so let's just get past this onto the real issue"

the setting aside of a religious person's "religious concerns" is always going seem to be an uncomfortable attack on that person's sense of value to the community at large.

And the con men, the wolves in sheep's clothing, will always use that understandable gut reaction of the religious to prey on them and set themselves up as some sort of protector and leader of that religious flock.

As it is, I'm sure there's some very good, nice, religious people who right now are feeling that fight or flight twinge that precedes that feeling that they are being attacked for their beliefs, even if they agree with the Secular/Sectarian divide in principle.

I'm sorry for it, but that's a common situation when living in a Secular society...my personal opinion is not an attack against other people's personal opinions, unless they are using their opinions to push me out of the communal discussion. And I shouldn't be prohibited from pointing out the hypocrites, bullies and grifters who use religion to put themselves up as petty tyrants over others who are giving them a pass for the lip-service they are presenting.

For example, after I offended a very nice, protected, very religious young woman I was tutoring in Project Management last semester by calling a particularly nasty media personality a "Bible Thumper" in passing, I had to explain to her I wasn't attacking her personal religion...I said:
"My view is that 'Bible Thumper' should never be a term of pride or respect to any religious person. A Bible Thumper is the ultimate Blasphemer - a bully who abuses their supposed holy book by setting themselves up as the Only True Protector of their Deity and turns their holy book into a weapon against anyone or anything they personally disagree with, whether there is a religious quality or not."
Once explained, she agreed whole-heartedly; she wasn't stupid. But I suspect she'll still feel a bit of offense when she hears that term used derisively in the future, just as my SM-i-L, who still thinks that term is "distasteful" and would rather claim "No True Scotsman" than actively call out the hypocrites and Bible Thumpers who are profiting off the shit they are stirring up in the name of religion.

The Sectarian ranks will always close against the Secular, given the slightest excuse.

Haele

dwpoland

(11 posts)
12. Christian Democrate
Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:22 PM
Oct 2014

I feel like an outcast at times because I lean to the liberal side and I am a Christian.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
13. Is the religious person in question standing on my front steps?
Thu Oct 2, 2014, 06:43 PM
Oct 2014

I have no problem with believers.

I do have a problem when they want to talk to me about how THEY can help ME, save my soul. As if THEY are in some superior position, relative to ME.

Some religious people are offended if you don't want to talk to them about their faith. They put it out there as if you are supposed to just agree with them.

And when you don't ... it is YOU who have offended THEM.

They were nice, just trying to SAVE YOU. You were mean by telling THEM that you did not need their help in that regard.

Sometimes you have to push them aside.

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