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Sat Aug 9, 2014, 06:34 PM

Three Charts to Email to Your Right-Wing Brother-In-Law (Updated)

Problem: Your right-wing brother-in-law is plugged into the FOX-Limbaugh lie machine, and keeps sending you emails about "Obama spending" and "Obama deficits" and how the "stimulus" just made things worse.

Solution: Here are three "reality-based" charts to send to him. These charts show what actually happened.

Spending:



Government spending increased dramatically under President Bush. It has not increased much under President Obama. This is just a fact.

Deficits:





The Stimulus and Jobs

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Arrow 43 replies Author Time Post
Reply Three Charts to Email to Your Right-Wing Brother-In-Law (Updated) (Original post)
TomCADem Aug 2014 OP
MannyGoldstein Aug 2014 #1
lunasun Aug 2014 #2
SharonAnn Aug 2014 #43
Lochloosa Aug 2014 #3
Curmudgeoness Aug 2014 #5
Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #4
Duppers Aug 2014 #6
zeemike Aug 2014 #13
Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #16
freshwest Aug 2014 #7
Cicada Aug 2014 #8
danriker Aug 2014 #9
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2014 #10
danriker Aug 2014 #11
TomCADem Aug 2014 #23
stillwaiting Aug 2014 #30
danriker Aug 2014 #38
Rex Aug 2014 #40
BillZBubb Aug 2014 #12
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2014 #14
BillZBubb Aug 2014 #15
zeemike Aug 2014 #17
BillZBubb Aug 2014 #18
Cosmocat Aug 2014 #26
BillZBubb Aug 2014 #35
Cosmocat Aug 2014 #41
wyldwolf Aug 2014 #19
danriker Aug 2014 #20
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2014 #25
danriker Aug 2014 #28
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2014 #34
whereisjustice Aug 2014 #36
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2014 #37
danriker Aug 2014 #39
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2014 #42
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2014 #24
Jamaal510 Aug 2014 #32
Bucky Aug 2014 #21
jimlup Aug 2014 #22
66 dmhlt Aug 2014 #27
BobbyBoring Aug 2014 #29
whereisjustice Aug 2014 #31
Jamaal510 Aug 2014 #33

Response to TomCADem (Original post)


Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 06:38 PM

2. Thanks would be good for a laugh if it wasn't so sad what Bush did in just 8years

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Response to lunasun (Reply #2)

Sat Aug 16, 2014, 11:38 PM

43. It's easy to break things and takes a long time to build/rebuild them.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 06:39 PM

3. Bookmarked for all the good they will do

Repugs will question of deny them . Or. There you go again blaming the shrub.

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Response to Lochloosa (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 06:54 PM

5. That has always been my experience

when I try to counter the lies. Usually, it is the "that chart is a lie". And don't bother asking for evidence that it is a lie.....you get crickets.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 06:42 PM

4. Any self respecting teabagger will call these charts a media conspiracy and will spew outrage vomit.

Those that only pretend to understand them will remain silent and run to Fox .news to double check...where they will be soothed with the truth that Obama is still black, just not black enough, probably an Arab. And they will be soothed.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #4)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 07:48 PM

6. truth!

Last edited Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:25 AM - Edit history (1)

Had one assh*le tell me he wouldn't believe data from a U.S. gov site!

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #4)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 08:28 PM

13. That is true.

Because it is not about logic or truth, but about emotion...they are angry and when angry nothing will satisfy it but the destruction of who they think is responsible for it.
And Fox and the other right wing noise machines will keep feeding that anger.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #13)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 08:34 PM

16. They have gone over the edge to fascism, destruction at all cost, logic and facts are irrelevantl,

because violent force is the undercurrent they mean to project....to create fear, even an undercurrent is enough.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 07:48 PM

7. Sorry, won't work. 'Government charts are false, they're all covering for Obama.'

Inoculated against any fact that doesn't fit their reality.

'Fox reports, you decide,' is the motto.

The zombies take it in and say to themselves:

'Fox said it, so I don't have to think anymore.'



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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 07:52 PM

8. Spending during 2009 due to carryover Bush laws

Stimulus spending in 2009 was generally pursuant to laws passed in 2008. Obama goosed it up a relatively small amount. Conservatives will claim the high level of spending in 2009 was due to Obama but almost all of it was signed into law by Bush.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 08:08 PM

9. Obama as a good Republican

The problem is we needed to spend a whole lot more to get the economy moving much faster. We have been in stall mode for years now. We still have a lack of spending because too many people have too little dollars. Between the job losses and the mortgage crisis, an enormous amount of middle class net worth was wiped out.

So these charts, except for the employment one, are nothing to brag about. They show that Obama is a better manager of a Republican economy than are the Republicans. Reagan's economic policies remain mostly in effect and the middle class still is suffering.

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Response to danriker (Reply #9)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 08:10 PM

10. this has been another example of "letting the good be the enemy of the perfect"

brought to you by the Ultra Left Wing....

We now return you to your regular scheduled broadcast......

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #10)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 08:15 PM

11. First time in my life!

That is is the first time in my life - and it is a long life - that I have been linked to the ultra left. Chill out. I like Obama, and I donated to him, campaigned for him, and voted for him, and would do so again. However, he has some warts and we shouldn't ignore them. We should encourage him to do better, and he could.

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Response to danriker (Reply #11)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 11:56 PM

23. Actually Many Right Wingers Give Credit To House Republicans...

...in other words, like the person you are responding to, they also say that House Republicans deserve credit for keeping President Obama from acting like a liberal. Conversely, they attribute Bush's problems to the two years he had to deal with a Democratic congress. So, it is not just the "ultra left," but many right wingers who express the same view.

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Response to danriker (Reply #11)

Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:24 PM

30. Welcome to DU! Don't let the earlier poster not make you feel welcome!!

There is a contingent here that tends to label criticism of Obama, Hillary, etc. (basically the establishment) as being ultra-left. They are wrong.

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Response to stillwaiting (Reply #30)

Mon Aug 11, 2014, 02:01 PM

38. Not all Democrats are Progressives but Progressives are not radical leftists

I'm a progressive, a progressive in the Robert LaFollette, Theodore Roosevelt, FDR and LBJ tradition. As Lincoln said, government should do for the people what they need to have done but cannot do for themselves. Public officials have a duty to all the people, not to special interests. I like Obama, but I also criticize him. I started writing that he was not as liberal as people thought soon after the Iowa caucuses back in 2008. I supported him against Hillary, but not for that reason. I have not been surprised that he has not been more liberal as President, but I am disappointed that he has been too close to Wall Street and to the military/intelligence holdovers from Bush.

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Response to danriker (Reply #11)

Mon Aug 11, 2014, 02:46 PM

40. We have binary thinkers here that love to destroy the party unity before elections.

They claim to be Ds...but their words show them to be more like Rs...strange I know, but evidently they can ruin everything and then pretend it was the uber lefts fault...which doesn't exist anywhere but under their bed and in their head.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #10)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 08:21 PM

12. No, a better example is the 2010 midterm elections.

Obama's good was not good enough to save the Democrats. By doing so little, he allowed the republicans to paint him and the Democrats as failures. Bold action was needed to get the economy moving quickly. The president chose to not fight that battle. It cost the Democrats and the country a lot.

The good was the enemy in that case.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #12)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 08:29 PM

14. No it wasn't

Could YOU do better under the circumstances?

Good luck with that.....

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #14)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 08:33 PM

15. Yes, a lot of people could have done better in that particular case.

Obama was still in his misguided mode of thinking the republicans would work with him. Most of us saw through that. He didn't. So, he didn't fight and the public blamed him and the Democrats, not the republicans for the lack of improvement in the economy. AND, his justice department could have brought indictments against numerous banksters for fraud. Yet, they did nothing.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #12)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 08:39 PM

17. He should have emulated FDR.

That is the best historical precedent.

FDR took decisive actions and was opposed and one could argue it was not as much as needed to be done, but it showed the people that he was concerned about THEM not Wall Street.
And the people saw that FDR was for them and his programs were aimed at them...and because of it became a beloved president...elected 4 times.

Obama did just the opposite of that, and because of it the Dems are failing...

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Response to zeemike (Reply #17)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 08:44 PM

18. I agree, at least he should have FOUGHT for what we supposedly believe in.

He wouldn't have gotten is all with the republicans trying to kill everything, but the public would have seen the effort. Instead, he took accepted the crumbs the repubicans offered and he looked like he didn't care about the suffering of the people.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #12)

Sun Aug 10, 2014, 07:56 AM

26. You realize the man is not a dictator or king?

that there are three branches of government, and that in order to "do something" the 535 morons in the House and Senate have to agree to it?

He, rightfully, "fought the battle" of health care reform. Best he could do was barely get a republican version of it passed by reconciliation, and choosing this battle cost him every bit of what little political capital the jackass republicans, scumbag media and halfwitted population of this country was willing to give him.

But, yeah, he "could have done more" and "should have fought more" ...

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Response to Cosmocat (Reply #26)

Sun Aug 10, 2014, 10:46 PM

35. Oh, please, not that trite nonsense.

And you are wrong. Obama didn't fight much of a battle on health care. If you really want to go there, Obama dropped the ball from the beginning. Instead of insisting on single payer then waiting for the republicans to offer an alternative, Obama took single payer off the table. He didn't spend one second trying to sell single payer (or Medicare for everyone) to the country. That would have been a winner for the Democrats.

Instead of getting involved in defining what his objectives were for health care reform and publicly pushing those ideas, he deferred to congress to define the bill. Obama could have gone to Democratic leaning states with republican senators and reamed them publicly for not actively supporting action on health care reform. A few days in Maine, for instance, and he could have had so-called moderates Snowe and Collins begging him to let them help.

I am not under any illusions that Obama would have won most of these battles, but he and the Democrats suffered badly because the public never saw what he was doing as being to their benefit. That is on him.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #35)

Mon Aug 11, 2014, 02:59 PM

41. Trite, as in reality?

Well, this reply pretty much explains it.

You are living in one big, fantastical alternate reality.

Here on planet earth, without POTUS even saying a word from about single payer, HCR was a dogs hair from being defeated after a year plus of shit storms about how it was a socialist takeover with death panels and 100 other insane hyperbolic shit storms the right ginned up.

But, it would not have been the absolute death knell for it (reality), it would have been a WINNER FOR DEMOCRATS had he pushed for it.

All he had to do was FIGHT FOR IT and it would have given a spine to spineless democrats and made those evil republicans back down.

If you truly believe this, we are simply dealing in different realities.

Snowe and Collins would have been begging him to let them help ...

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Response to danriker (Reply #9)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 08:52 PM

19. Why doesn't the further left win an election and show how to do it properly?

... oh yeah, because you can't get elected... because you can't organize... because you hate campaign money... so you're in favor of campaign finance laws... but you can't get any passed because you can't get elected... because you can't organize... because you hate campaign money... so you're in favor of campaign finance laws... but you can't get any passed because you can't get elected... because you can't organize... because you hate campaign money... so you're in favor of campaign finance laws... but you can't get any passed because you can't get elected... because you can't organize... because you hate campaign money... so you're in favor of campaign finance laws... but you can't get any passed because you can't get elected... because you can't organize... because you hate campaign money... so you're in favor of campaign finance laws... but you can't get any passed because you can't get elected... because you can't organize... because you hate campaign money... so you're in favor of campaign finance laws... but you can't get any passed because you can't get elected...

As much as I loath dirty money, I refuse to cede the money sweepstakes to the GOP.

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #19)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 09:29 PM

20. Progressives could get elected if they follow the right strategies.

This is the subject of part of my yet to be published book, Let's Do What Works and Call it Capitalism. Progressives have been very popular in American history, and also very successful. I am using the term "progressive" in the original sense, as a philosophy of government as developed by Robert LaFollette and first exemplified by him and Theodore Roosevelt. I do not use it instead of liberal. Progressivism is not ideological although it is based on classic liberalism and most progressives are liberal. Progressives are pragmatic. In the three relative short periods of progressive government - 1901-1920, 1933-45, ande 1961-68 virtually all of the government programs that have been of greatest benefit to the people were adopted.
Progressives have to gain control of the Democratic Party and they can do it using some of the same techniques as the Tea Party has used inside the Republican Party - running candidates in primaries and organizing their supporters. The problem with the Democrats right now is that they are not different enough from the Republicans. They don't excite the electorate. Progressives could do that. I'll be posting a lot more on this.

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Response to danriker (Reply #20)

Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:53 AM

25. spoken just like the unself-aware ultra left...

Fringes are always the same......they think only THEY have all the answers.....meanwhile all hat no cattle.

All that you just descibed for example.....takes money....lots and lots of money...nothing is ever as easy as it sounds.....thats what realists know..

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #25)

Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:12 PM

28. It is more possible than you think.

Money is needed and it is available. It is a matter of organizing a way of raising large amounts of money in ways that do not compromise the candidates. A central pool of funds, or a series of regional pools might be one way. There already are some progressive groups trying to do that. There are some very wealthy progressives who make substantial contributions. A look into the Obama fund-raising is instructive. Even though he did receive large contributions from the banks, he raised an enormous amount of money from the population in general. It can be done, but it will take time and organization.

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Response to danriker (Reply #28)

Sun Aug 10, 2014, 10:36 PM

34. I want some of what you are smoking.....

now what you are talking about takes time.....lots and lots of time....

You are talking long shot.....very long shot.....we Realists know better. We take in the big picture......which includes opposing forces. That is the part of the equation you always forget.....

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #25)

Sun Aug 10, 2014, 10:46 PM

36. poor, conservative waif, you seem lost, here is a link

http://www.foxnews.com/

It's not hard to find, it's still a few clicks to the right of here, but not as far away as it used to be.

They'll be happy to hear your stupefying insults towards the "ultra-left".

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Response to whereisjustice (Reply #36)

Mon Aug 11, 2014, 07:22 AM

37. not a conserative silly rabbit.....a feet on the ground..... can see the big picture realist

who knows what liberals are up against. Go bac to eating your pie in the sky. And were your feelings hurt?

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #37)

Mon Aug 11, 2014, 02:11 PM

39. We are proud of being liberal.

"What did liberals do that was so offensive to the Republican party? I'll tell you what they did. Liberals got women the right to vote. Liberals got African-Americans the right to vote. Liberals created Social Security and lifted millions of elderly people out of poverty. Liberals ended segregation. Liberals passed the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act. Liberals created Medicare. Liberals passed the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act. What did Conservatives do? They opposed them on every one of those things every one. So when you try to hurl that label at my feet, 'Liberal,' as if it were something to be ashamed of, something dirty, something to run away from, it won't work, Senator, because I will pick up that label and I will wear it as a badge of honor."

- Matthew Santos (Jimmy Smits), Democratic Presidential Candidate in "Debate" episode of the television program, "The West Wing,"written by Lawrence O'Donnell, Jr. and directed by Alex Graves, Nov. 6, 2005.

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Response to danriker (Reply #39)

Mon Aug 11, 2014, 04:01 PM

42. yes i am

Being Liberal has nothing to do with this....its who are our fringe....and who are idealists

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #19)

Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:48 AM

24. This++++++

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Response to wyldwolf (Reply #19)

Sun Aug 10, 2014, 10:25 PM

32. ROFLMAO

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 10:02 PM

21. adapted for the kids





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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 11:52 PM

22. I've found that many right winger literally

don't understand graphs. I'm serious... they don't get this basic HS math stuff.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sun Aug 10, 2014, 08:19 AM

27. Here's the LINK to the Original Article ...

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:04 PM

29. Facts mean nothing

To those that make their own reality.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sun Aug 10, 2014, 06:15 PM

31. The rich have done very well by Obama, that's who matters to our political establishment

the rest of us, not so much.

Shit, we'll vote Democratic even if the White House told us they were recording everything we say and do, equated torture with the highest form of patriotism, or let the world's most destructive criminals go free after committing the worst financial fraud in world history, an event that had a horrible impact on millions of lives worldwide. Hell, we'll even militarize the border with Mexico, ready to commit nearly $4 billion. All Rick Perry has to do is snap his fingers and claim Texas is being attacked by bands of terrorist children.

Calm down, it's hypothetical. I'm not saying that Democrats would ever do this sort of stuff. We'll leave that to the Republicans.

Perhaps we are just out of ideas, going with the flow as Washington's most corrupt institutions spin down the drain. Maybe torture polled well as hip, fresh, edgy among those most likely to appear in a T-Mobile commercial. After all, most of us will never be tortured by more than a condescending political speech or two defending torture. No biggie.

But here is the deal, hipsters. If you get caught in some petty crime, we'll throw your ass in a for-profit prison. No fancy promotions, no Presidential pardons. You will be fucked over for the rest of your life so the CEO can meet quota.

And that job you thought you were going to get when you graduated? It's going to India (or an H1B from India) and the CEO is going to get a tax refund as a bonus for fucking you over to meet quota.

And how about those low wage teachers and standard tests forced on you by for-profit testing companies? Getting a good education? College costs are outpacing health care costs and a college executive is going to get a bonus for fucking you over to meet quota.

This is class warfare. Washington says it's necessary for our own safety, but it's really for theirs.

So, thanks for not rocking the boat, it makes our elected representative's job much easier if we stay quiet and compliant.

Most of all, thanks for your unconditional vote.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sun Aug 10, 2014, 10:28 PM

33. I don't know

any RWers in real-life period. Even if I did, emailing this stuff to them would more than likely be like talking to a brick wall.

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