HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Politics 2014 (Forum) » States You Shouldn't Be C...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Sat Oct 26, 2013, 04:16 PM

States You Shouldn't Be Caught Dead In

From the WSJ, pointing out states that impose Estate and Inheritance taxes which retirees should avoid.



What I would like to see, is another map, showing quality of education and of services provided by the states superimposed on this one.

I think that the results will not surprise most of us.

Here are selected paragraphs:


Robert Negele is a 90-year-old retired executive who has lived in Connecticut for almost 40 years. Despite decades of community involvement, including service on corporate and charity boards, he and two of his children who live nearby are seriously considering leaving the state. A big factor in their deliberations: Connecticut's estate and gift taxes, which tax assets above $2 million per individual at rates as high as 12%. Mr. Negele says some snowbirds at his Stamford retirement home have shifted their tax home to Florida, while others he knows have left the state altogether.

(snip)

Are these taxes effective—that is, do they raise more revenue than they lose when residents like Mr. Negele decide go elsewhere? Economists are divided, and so are the states. In recent years, several states have repealed or suspended their death duties, including Kansas, Oklahoma, Virginia, North Carolina and Indiana. Ohio's repeal, which took effect in January, was urged by Gov. John Kasich to help the Buckeye state "be more competitive with other states." Tennessee's estate tax is scheduled to disappear in 2016.

A few others have moved in the opposite direction. In 2011, Connecticut lowered its exemption to $2 million from $3.5 million. This year, Delaware rescinded the planned sunset of its estate tax, and Washington state raised its top rate on the largest estates for 2014. Minnesota imposed a gift tax beginning July 1 of this year, a move intended to prevent people from avoiding its estate tax by making large gifts while they're alive. (The only other state with a gift tax is Connecticut.)

More..

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304682504579155510034634716


(If you cannot open by clicking on the link, copy and paste the title onto google)

28 replies, 3372 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 28 replies Author Time Post
Reply States You Shouldn't Be Caught Dead In (Original post)
question everything Oct 2013 OP
DURHAM D Oct 2013 #1
petronius Oct 2013 #6
Proud Liberal Dem Oct 2013 #19
MFM008 Oct 2013 #2
bravenak Oct 2013 #3
Warpy Oct 2013 #4
CTyankee Oct 2013 #7
question everything Oct 2013 #14
Proud Liberal Dem Oct 2013 #20
Warpy Oct 2013 #21
Proud Liberal Dem Oct 2013 #22
YoungDemCA Oct 2013 #28
The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 2013 #5
DURHAM D Oct 2013 #8
The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 2013 #11
Hippo_Tron Oct 2013 #23
BluegrassStateBlues Oct 2013 #9
MillennialDem Oct 2013 #10
Aldo Leopold Oct 2013 #12
DebJ Oct 2013 #24
DebJ Oct 2013 #25
hedgehog Oct 2013 #13
question everything Oct 2013 #15
davidpdx Oct 2013 #16
DFW Oct 2013 #17
Recursion Oct 2013 #18
Jersey Devil Oct 2013 #26
TexasBushwhacker Oct 2013 #27

Response to question everything (Original post)

Sat Oct 26, 2013, 04:21 PM

1. "Death Duties" Really?

Won't even bother with the article...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DURHAM D (Reply #1)

Sat Oct 26, 2013, 05:01 PM

6. Yep, nice framing there. As soon as the IRS drags someone back from the dead

over an unpaid 'death tax,' then I'll entertain the notion that that terminology is meaningful. But not until then...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to petronius (Reply #6)

Sun Oct 27, 2013, 12:23 PM

19. I think that that's handled by their super-secret "Supernatural Affairs" Division

I think

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to question everything (Original post)

Sat Oct 26, 2013, 04:26 PM

2. Why

would i read anything on the wall street journal. The states I wouldnt be caught dead in are all red states.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to question everything (Original post)

Sat Oct 26, 2013, 04:37 PM

3. I'm crying for the children of those millionaires who have to pay taxes.

Can't you see my tears?? How will they survive on less than 2 million dollars? I know, We should cut food stamps to raise the money. Can't you see these rich people are hurting?? While those takers are feeding their kids expensive grapes?? And buying real meat instead of the spam, that the poor folks should be allowed??
I'm really broken up over this.... Those poor millionaire heirs'.
I hope they survive this.
I really do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to question everything (Original post)

Sat Oct 26, 2013, 04:41 PM

4. Yes, the guy who wrote this is a typical winger

The truth is that dead men pay no tax. Heirs who get a windfall pay taxes on that.

Unfortunately, the right wing has done a bang up job of focusing on the soon to be dead instead of the often undeserving heirs.

Estate taxes do serve a great purpose, making it more difficult to establish an inherited aristocracy of great wealth and for that reason, should be maintained. Estate planning consists of giving heirs just enough to avoid taxation (which is enough to live on for the idle) while giving the rest to charity. While there abuses in the "charity" giving, a lot of the money did get recycled into the economy instead of hoarded by a few heirs.

The rest of us need to educate the propaganda addled on this point.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warpy (Reply #4)

Sat Oct 26, 2013, 05:02 PM

7. I was a major gifts officer for a nonprofit and I was blown away when a young staffer told me he

believed that there was a "death tax" that would tax any of his income or benefits. He was a young guy, just out of the Marines, going to college at night on the GI bill, etc. His income was low, even by most industry standards. He wasn't a republican but he actually believed he was subject to a "death tax." I was shocked.

No wonder we have such a hard time as Dems countering this shit...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warpy (Reply #4)

Sun Oct 27, 2013, 12:38 AM

14. Indeed. Which is why I would have loved to see maps of quality of education

and quality of services superimposed on that map.

After all, these are supported by taxes, including estate and inheritance taxes.

What bugs me is that, no doubt, the families that want to leave clearly benefited from earlier generations who paid taxes but they do not think that now it is appropriate for them to support the future generations.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warpy (Reply #4)

Sun Oct 27, 2013, 12:24 PM

20. Heh

"Dead men pay no tax"- should make for a good meme

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #20)

Sun Oct 27, 2013, 04:06 PM

21. So start circulating it

They all have to start somewhere. Might as well be DU.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warpy (Reply #21)

Sun Oct 27, 2013, 04:13 PM

22. I just might



Makes me think of Pirates of the Carribean's "Dead Men Tell No Tales"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warpy (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 06:31 PM

28. +1. You'd think that the "self-made", "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" right-wingers...

...would hate the idea of inherited wealth-the kind that makes people rich just because of which family they're a part of.

Of course, they don't hate that idea.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to question everything (Original post)

Sat Oct 26, 2013, 04:42 PM

5. In my state, Minnesota, the inheritance tax kicks in at $1,000,000.

Very few people have estates worth a million bucks. And even those who do can avoid at least some of the tax with good estate planning.

So, cry me a river, rich people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #5)

Sat Oct 26, 2013, 06:21 PM

8. The map says Minnesota does not have an inheritance tax.

It has an estate tax. Also, I see there is an exemption for up to $4 million for farms and small businesses.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DURHAM D (Reply #8)

Sat Oct 26, 2013, 06:30 PM

11. You are correct, that was just sloppy nomenclature on my part.

An estate tax is a tax on the assets of an estate before they are distributed to the beneficiaries, which is what MN has.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #5)

Sun Oct 27, 2013, 08:31 PM

23. Seriously, if your children are competent to run the family business or family farm...

Then transfer partial ownership to them while you're still alive and you avoid the estate tax, end of story. But if they're lazy spoiled brats who are so incompetent that you wouldn't hand over partial ownership while you're still on the planet, then you have no right to bitch about how the estate tax ruined your family business.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to question everything (Original post)

Sat Oct 26, 2013, 06:24 PM

9. My only problem with inheritance and estate taxes...

 

Is that they're too damn low.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to question everything (Original post)

Sat Oct 26, 2013, 06:30 PM

10. The estate tax is the most fair tax there is

One could argue why tax spending as it is good for the economy.

Or why tax earnings from work, people working is good.

What good has a member of the lucky sperm club done for society or the economy though?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to question everything (Original post)

Sat Oct 26, 2013, 08:40 PM

12. Fuckin PA

I hate being stuck here!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Aldo Leopold (Reply #12)

Mon Oct 28, 2013, 10:23 AM

24. Yes I believe they tax EVERY penny of inheritance here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DebJ (Reply #24)

Mon Oct 28, 2013, 10:28 AM

25. Not over a certain limit, but any amount at all, but then, this is a Red State in local reps.

http://www.revenue.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/inheritance_tax/11414

Also of interest is that the tax is due upon the death of the decedent, and becomes delinquent within 9 months of death.
So, my MIL's house wasn't sold until a year after her death; it took awhile to clean things up.
How do you determine the value, particularly in this housing market, of an unsold house?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to question everything (Original post)

Sat Oct 26, 2013, 10:05 PM

13. So, states should cut their taxes to keep people with money from leaving?

I don't see the point.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hedgehog (Reply #13)

Sun Oct 27, 2013, 12:40 AM

15. Neither do I

Especially since their children benefited from quality education supported by estate tax of previous generations.

As someone recently observed - taxes during the Eisenhower administration were quite high, and no one claimed that he was - gasp - a socialist.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to question everything (Original post)

Sun Oct 27, 2013, 04:29 AM

16. Here is an alternative link:

http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-headlines/SS-2-63399/SS-2-365079/

According to the article Oregon's is $1 million. I know my brother and I will get something from our mother, but it will be no where near that. In fact I have student loans and live out of the country, so I may tell my mom to fork everything over to my brother and arrange for him to give me my half. The wife and I are allowed to bring $10,000 in to the country each. I've always joked about lining my underwear with money.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to question everything (Original post)

Sun Oct 27, 2013, 05:44 AM

17. We had to pay plenty when our parents died, and we're not in any of those states.

They lived in Virginia, but there were plenty of estates taxes to pay. We had to sell their house because we couldn't afford to keep it after paying its assessed value. They built it in 1955 for $50,000, borrowing from every relative that had a cent to spare (they had none), and had to pay the Federal government 50% of the assessed value of some objects inherited from our grandmother.

It was painful to give up the house we had grown up in, but we had all moved on to other parts of the world. Sic transit gloria mundi. No one is starving.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to question everything (Original post)

Sun Oct 27, 2013, 07:24 AM

18. Inheritance taxes are about more than revenue

They're an attempt to try to disrupt capital accumulation across generations.

That is, even if you could show the state lost revenue from an inheritance tax, that doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to question everything (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 03:49 PM

26. Death taxes are the reason they invented The Rule Against Perpetuities

"No interest is valid unless it must vest within lives in being plus 21 years from the creation of the interest." Unless, of course, there is an exception for the "Unborn Widow Rule" or the "Fertile Octogenarian Rule."

NJ looks scary on that map but you must know that there is no inheritance or estate tax for any surviving spouse, child or grandchild no matter what the amount. A billionaire would pay no death taxes whatsoever in NJ to his/her spouse or lineal descendants.

However, if there is no spouse or kids the taxes kick in heavy, usually 11-15% for inheritance taxes and another big chunk for estate taxes for estates over $675k.

So move somewhere else if you are giving your money to someone other than your spouse and kids. Otherwise forget it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jersey Devil (Reply #26)

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 05:59 PM

27. There are alternatives

Most of us would feel quite comfortable with a net worth of $675K. If they are that hung up about their heirs paying taxes on estates above and beyond that amount, then they can 1) buy life insurance for the purpose of paying taxes or 2) give to charity BEFORE they die. They can also give money to whoever they please, subject to gift tax limits. You can't take it with you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread