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Sat Jul 6, 2013, 03:02 AM

Maddowblog: France's spying complaints suddenly appear 'somewhat hollow'

The timing could certainly be better. French President Francois Hollande has complained bitterly in recent days about U.S. international surveillance programs, concerns that were echoed as recently as yesterday by France's Interior Minister at a Fourth of July event hosted by the U.S. ambassador in Paris.

And yet, here we are.

Days after President François Hollande sternly told the United States to stop spying on its allies, the newspaper Le Monde disclosed on Thursday that France has its own large program of data collection, which sweeps up nearly all the data transmissions, including telephone calls, e-mails and social media activity, that come in and out of France.

Le Monde reported that the General Directorate for External Security does the same kind of data collection as the American National Security Agency and the British GCHQ, but does so without clear legal authority.

The French government records data, stores it for an indeterminate period of time, all for the purposes of helping government officials trace who talks to whom using French telecommunications systems. The French surveillance programs include collection from American systems such as Google and Facebook.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/world/europe/france-too-is-collecting-data-newspaper-reveals.html

The New York Times report added that the revelations "appeared to make some of the French outrage about the revelations appear somewhat hollow."

You think?

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/07/05/19303626-frances-spying-complaints-suddenly-appear-somewhat-hollow?lite

11 replies, 1570 views

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Reply Maddowblog: France's spying complaints suddenly appear 'somewhat hollow' (Original post)
SunSeeker Jul 2013 OP
Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #1
Downwinder Jul 2013 #2
dipsydoodle Jul 2013 #3
Downwinder Jul 2013 #4
dipsydoodle Jul 2013 #5
Downwinder Jul 2013 #6
dipsydoodle Jul 2013 #7
Downwinder Jul 2013 #8
Squinch Jul 2013 #9
SunSeeker Jul 2013 #10
DFW Jul 2013 #11

Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Sat Jul 6, 2013, 03:29 AM

1. I thought it was pretty rich too. He's obviously trying to deflect attention.

Could this be the reason?

Hollande’s Approval Rating Drops to New Low, BVA Poll Shows

By Mark Deen - Jun 24, 2013

"French President Francois Hollande’s approval rating dropped to a new low, suggesting a recovery in May was just a blip, a poll by BVA Opinion showed.

About 31 percent of voters have a “good opinion” of the Socialist president, down from 61 percent just after his election a year ago and from 35 percent in May, BVA said in a survey for L’Express magazine and Radio France."


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-24/hollande-s-approval-rating-drops-to-new-low-bva-poll-shows.html

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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Sat Jul 6, 2013, 03:31 AM

2. Are the telephones still owned by the government?

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #2)

Sat Jul 6, 2013, 04:09 AM

3. Do you mean

like it was back in the day in the UK when there was only the GPO / General Post Office , until the telephone part was split off into British Telecom, so if you wanted a phone line it was that or nothing and the phone was included ? I think even in the late sixties is was illegal to use an alternative phone type from the standard ones.

Bring back bakelite phones with dials.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 6, 2013, 04:31 AM

4. Ran into an Air France Co-pilot in a club Hong Kong.

He was in a down mood.

Seems he and his live-in girlfriend had a disagreement.

He went on a five day trip and she called time and temperature from Paris to New York City, left the phone off the hook, and moved out.

When he got home, not thinking about it, he hung the phone up. Then he got his telephone bill with a five day long distance charge.

At that time both the Telephone Company and Air France were Government owned. He could not see any way he could get out of paying the bill.

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #4)

Sat Jul 6, 2013, 04:33 AM

5. Similar to the UK then

pre-nationalisation.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 6, 2013, 04:39 AM

6. I take it that the phone services have been privatized.

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #6)

Sat Jul 6, 2013, 04:49 AM

7. 1980 /81 in the UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_Group

After that lots changed with the both advent of "mobiles" and associated companies and BT losing the monopoly on their own fixed lines. First "mobile" I had was a fixed one in Supra in 1987 - best I've ever had and I've still got the same 'phone number other than the addition of a 7 when they switched from analogue to digital.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #7)

Sat Jul 6, 2013, 05:05 AM

8. About the time I went into my Rip Van Winkle sleep.

I missed about 25 years. Still have not gotten completely used to this new world.

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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Sat Jul 6, 2013, 07:34 AM

9. BUT, let's all remember what we learned in kindergarten: two wrongs don't make a right.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #9)

Sat Jul 6, 2013, 12:13 PM

10. Yes, and we also learned hypocrisy isn't right. nt

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Response to SunSeeker (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2013, 05:32 AM

11. I'm in France several times a month, and just about everyone there assumes:

Je suis "sur écoute," or, effectively, "I 'm being listened to."

I fear it has to be a given these days that no matter what laws may be on the books in a given country, IF the technology is available to record every communication that takes place, it will be used. This will be kept as quiet as possible until such time as a terrorist act is prevented or a conviction is secured, at which time any revelation of overstepping the bounds of legality will be counterbalanced by the success, and therefore "necessity," of the surveillance.

Granted, Hollande is a jerk of a technocrat who got into office by being as bland as unflavored oatmeal during the campaign, but he is by no means unique in his outrage being "hollow."

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