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Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:41 PM

Andrew Sullivan: The GOP’s Real Problem

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/02/08/the-gops-real-problem/

The GOP’s Real Problem
Feb 8 2013 @ 5:01pm


President Bush Holds News Conference


A reader at TPM puts his finger on it:

Neither side in this putative civil war has been willing to reckon honestly with the consequences of the Bush administration for the country (substantively) or the Republican Party (politically). Both do their best to present their views to the public as if the last Republican President had never existed. This has left both groups of activists somewhat unmoored; in politics, you talk ideology and principles when you can’t brag about accomplishments, because voters are a lot better at relating the latter to their own lives.

Since neither the Tea Party types or the big donors and the campaign operatives working for them are thinking of repudiating a Republican administration that lost two wars and wrecked the economy, they are left to air their differences on issues no one besides campaign junkies cares about. The self-styled conservatives complain that Rove and his people say mean things about them; the moneybags wing is dedicated to recruiting candidates who will avoid gaffes. Big deal.


This was also clear in the Hagel hearings. When you have a party that hasn’t been able to repudiate the worst administration in modern times, and actually still attempt to hail it as some kind of achievement with respect to Iraq or Afghanistan or the debt, you cannot persuade anyone you have changed, or want to change.

Someone in the GOP needs to take Bush-Cheney apart, to show how they created the debt crisis we are in, by throwing away a surplus on unaffordable tax cuts, launching two unfunded wars, and one new unfunded entitlement. They need to take on the war crimes that has deeply undermined the soul of the United States. They need to note the catastrophic negligence that gave us the worst national security lapse since Pearl Harbor (9/11) despite being warned explicitly in advance, accept weak and false intelligence to launch a war they were too incompetent to fight or win, sat back as one of the worst hurricanes all but took out a major city, and was so negligent in bank regulation that we ended up with Lehman and all that subsequently took place.

These were not minor errors. They were catastrophic misjudgments which took an era of peace, surplus and prosperity and replaced it with a dystopia of massive debt, a lawless executive branch, two unwinnable wars, and a record of war crimes that had their source in the very Oval Office.

When will the Republicans hold themselves accountable for the things that have persuaded so many that this bunch of fanatics and deniers are unfit for government? When will they speak of Bush and Cheney and repudiate them?

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 25 replies Author Time Post
Reply Andrew Sullivan: The GOP’s Real Problem (Original post)
babylonsister Feb 2013 OP
graham4anything Feb 2013 #1
babylonsister Feb 2013 #2
jerseyjack Feb 2013 #3
EC Feb 2013 #4
babylonsister Feb 2013 #5
truebluegreen Feb 2013 #8
babylonsister Feb 2013 #10
A Simple Game Feb 2013 #9
xtraxritical Feb 2013 #13
A Simple Game Feb 2013 #14
Trascoli Feb 2013 #6
calimary Feb 2013 #15
Cha Feb 2013 #7
Cosmocat Feb 2013 #18
MNBrewer Feb 2013 #11
babylonsister Feb 2013 #12
MNBrewer Feb 2013 #16
babylonsister Feb 2013 #17
Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #19
MNBrewer Feb 2013 #20
MNBrewer Feb 2013 #21
tblue37 Feb 2013 #23
MNBrewer Feb 2013 #24
The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2013 #22
quaker bill Feb 2013 #25

Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:44 PM

1. repudiate???The republicans are going to nominate Jeb unless he chickes out because

 

he knows he can't beat hillary.

For Bush to be repudiated thoroughly, I want to see hillary win 450 electoral votes or more against Jeb.

He wont be repudiated better any other way

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:51 PM

2. He might already have...

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2013/02/07/jeb_bush_tries_to_buy_a_baseball_team.html

Jeb Bush Tries to Buy a Baseball Team

The Miami Herald reports that Jeb Bush was rebuffed in an offer to buy the Miami Marlins baseball team during the offseason.

First Read: "Just asking... but doesn't the fact... send a signal he's not all that interested in running for president? Trying to buy a baseball team doesn't exactly say your focus is prepping for a presidential run."

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:05 PM

3. I disagree.

 

Baseball was McChimp's entry to the White House.

"Baiesball been bery good to me."

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:12 PM

4. When will they finally realize that Bush and Cheney didn't

make any of their decisions themselves...the same directors are still directing. They were told what to do by their masters the 1% the same ones directing Governors through ALEC. Most of the repubs are too stupid to even write legislation, so someone else is doing it for them.

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Response to EC (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:15 PM

5. So tell me what legislation 'the others' are writing for the rethugs?

Last edited Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:20 PM - Edit history (1)

They are totally lost, don't have a clue how to navigate their ship. And it's adorable to watch, except they might sink us all in the process.

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Response to babylonsister (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:51 PM

8. "The others" are ALEC

and the only ship they care to navigate is the one of Republican power--no matter how disastrous.

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:19 PM

10. But what kind of power are they searching for by

pissing off the majority of the population? I'm not getting it.

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Response to EC (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:19 PM

9. Bush and Cheney also had a very successful Presidency.

Other than Social Security I can't think of anything major that they wanted and didn't get.

They were terrible for the country, but they were very successful in realizing their goals.

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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:29 PM

13. Exactly, Bush enriched all his cronies, he knew exactly what he was doing.

 

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:30 PM

14. I'm not sure I want to give Bush any credit, but yes someone knew what they were doing. n/t

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:15 PM

6. they have much bigger problems than that

 

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Response to Trascoli (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:35 PM

15. Welcome to DU, Trascoli!

Glad you're here! They have much bigger problems - PERIOD. They're a walking, talking, breathing, and excuse-making bigger problem.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:50 PM

7. The answer is

"Never".. they will never hold themselves accountable because it is too painful for their followers to handle and they could never admit they are such fuckups. According to them it's "a sign of weakness". So they will continue on their path of self destruction instead of learning from intentional mistakes.

Thanks babylonsistah

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Response to Cha (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:50 AM

18. Absolutely

The party has been on a pretty clear de-evolutionary path to the point where the very core of "conservatism" is the total and complete rejection of any personal responsibility.

They get to pat themselves on the back for being great, christian patriots who are resolutely self reliant, while finding every excuse possible to justify whatever handouts they greedily gobble up.

Everyone else does it, so should they, and it is all the evil liberal satan's fault.

And, even better, they are the VICTIMS.

It is a pretty sweet gig being a conservative.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:23 PM

11. Yes, Andrew Sullivan, when will those Republicans who supported our war in Iraq be repudiated?

Andrew Sullivan? What a fucking self-absorbed twit!

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #11)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:26 PM

12. Wow. He grew up...why can't everyone? NT

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Response to babylonsister (Reply #12)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:36 PM

16. Just because he became as enthusiastic in his support of Obama as he had been for Bush

doesn't mean he "grew up". Someone who pretends to be a pundit should have better foresight than he does. He's what I call a "stopped-clock" pundit. Someone who is right twice a day but dead wrong the rest of the time.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:11 PM

17. Bullshit. You can state that all day long, but you are wrong.

Someone who progresses in their views is okay by me, even if you won't allow them to.

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Response to babylonsister (Reply #17)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 08:36 AM

19. It's in the middle ground. He should always and forever be taken with a grain of salt not only

because of his unrelenting support of the Iraq invasion, but also because of the way he did that. Sully was not content at that time to merely support the war and write glowing pieces about how much comfort he drew from Cheney's presence in the administration, Sully also felt the need to write long screeds attacking those who protested the war or opposed it at all:
"So, I saw the opposition to the war as another example of a faulty Vietnam Syndrome, associated it entirely with the far left—or boomer nostalgia—and was revolted by the anti-war marches I saw in Washington. I wasn't wrong about some of this."
So he was revolted by anti war protests, and he still says he was not wrong.

Here he is on Bushco vs Al Gore:
"In 2000, my support for Bush was not deep. I thought he was an OK, unifying, moderate Republican who would be fine for a time of peace and prosperity. I was concerned—ha!—that Gore would spend too much. I was reassured by the experience and intelligence and pedigree of Cheney and Rumsfeld and Powell. Two of them had already fought and won a war in the Gulf. The bitter election battle hardened my loyalty. And once 9/11 happened, my support intensified as I hoped for the best. Bush's early speeches were magnificent."
Reassured by Cheney and Rummy! Speeches were magnificent! And after those excuses he says this:
"My misjudgment at the deepest moral level of what Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld were capable of—a misjudgment that violated the moral core of the enterprise—was my worst mistake. What the war has done to what is left of Iraq—the lives lost, the families destroyed, the bodies tortured, the civilization trashed—was bad enough. But what was done to America—and the meaning of America—was unforgivable. And for that I will not and should not forgive myself."
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2008/03/how_did_i_get_iraq_wrong_2.single.html

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Response to babylonsister (Reply #17)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 09:48 AM

20. To quote Sullivan about himself "I will not and should not forgive"

as seen in Bluenorthwest's post.

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Response to babylonsister (Reply #17)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 09:49 AM

21. I'll "allow" him to progress all he wants

I'll just never forgive or forget his cheerleading for Bush Co. and it's criminal war in Iraq.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #21)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:11 PM

23. He still considers himself a "proud Reaganite and Thatcherite."

His posts tend to be much more liberal now than before, and I therefore often agree with them, so I am happy about that. I am also happy that he has influence on center-right types, because that helps bring them to our side on political issues.

However, I am appalled that he still cannot see how wrong Reagan and Thatcher were.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #23)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:38 PM

24. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:11 PM

22. Hey, you should warn people before you post photos of W!

I'd never seen that one before - he looks especially stupid, smug and drunk - and it reminded me how fucked up we have been as a country that that guy somehow got to be President. Twice.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:40 AM

25. Bush is personally under the bus

I do not recall seeing him or Darth Cheney at the repug convention. Conservatives don't have "bad ideas", they have "failed leaders". This is basically endemic to the fundamentalist outlook on life. The "goal", "plan" or, "values" are "perfect" and "ideal", however we as people (read "hopeless sinners") can never truly live up to them. Some of us fall far shorter than others.

It is not that Bush* was a "conservative" who used "conservative ideas" to drive the country off a cliff. It is that he was a "failed leader" who did not live up to their "goodness" and "true americanism".

Liberals by nature do not put ideas on a pedestal and are therefore accused of having no "values". This is not true. Our values are not policies. If the work toward equality requires tax cuts, we would support them, if it requires tax increases, we would support them. Over time a great number of choices will arise and the search for social justice will always require an open mind. Having an open mind is actually a value. Being able to admit that one approach did not work and then stepping out to try another is how things can work.

Trying to shoehorn American culture into 250 year old ideas that never really worked because "the founders" wrote them is a prescription for failure every time.

Note how much they treat these documents as they do the Bible, it is an important observation and says alot.

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