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Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:49 AM

Demand a 1% WALL STREET SALES TAX

Please take the time to watch this short video. I will warn it contains Alex Jones because as a John Birch and American Heritage Foundation agent he must take good people with good ideas and try to discredit them. However, the video discredits him and the libertarian ideology.

So instead of any sort of petty rejection please think about this policy and please, spread this video around on Facebook and your blogs.

We NEED this tax to support a New Deal!



Thank You very much!

39 replies, 4087 views

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Arrow 39 replies Author Time Post
Reply Demand a 1% WALL STREET SALES TAX (Original post)
Vic Vinegar Jan 2013 OP
Still Sensible Jan 2013 #1
Vic Vinegar Jan 2013 #2
daleanime Jan 2013 #3
Warpy Jan 2013 #4
Squinch Jan 2013 #5
Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #6
Squinch Jan 2013 #9
Igel Jan 2013 #11
Squinch Jan 2013 #12
Imnotademocrat Jan 2013 #15
Stinky The Clown Jan 2013 #16
JustAnotherGen Jan 2013 #18
Cirque du So-What Jan 2013 #17
pipoman Jan 2013 #19
Squinch Jan 2013 #20
TexasBushwhacker Mar 2013 #25
Squinch Mar 2013 #29
mwrguy Mar 2013 #27
Squinch Mar 2013 #30
Vic Vinegar Jan 2013 #7
LiberalFighter Jan 2013 #8
Vic Vinegar Jan 2013 #10
TexasBushwhacker Mar 2013 #24
woolldog Jan 2013 #13
Vic Vinegar Jan 2013 #14
DFW Mar 2013 #31
WhoWoodaKnew Jan 2013 #21
TexasBushwhacker Mar 2013 #23
WhoWoodaKnew Mar 2013 #32
WhoWoodaKnew Jan 2013 #22
TexasBushwhacker Mar 2013 #26
pansypoo53219 Mar 2013 #28
brooklynite Mar 2013 #33
TexasBushwhacker Mar 2013 #34
Vic Vinegar Jul 2013 #35
GlashFordan Jul 2013 #36
polynomial Jul 2013 #37
jmowreader Jul 2013 #38
Vic Vinegar Jul 2013 #39

Response to Vic Vinegar (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:58 AM

1. Probably a real good idea

even a half percent would make a big difference. The key question is on what basis and at which point transactions would be taxed. Both would be a huge part of the argument.

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Response to Still Sensible (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:09 AM

2. answer

The basis is the economic disintegration of the World Economy. Real production is down while financial speculation is up; this is why GDP seems to be within its normal levels. However, the rest of the world is in a much worse IMF-wrought destruction and we could use this money for a new lend-lease or Marshall Plan type program to help recover the world economy among numerous other things.

This tax includes stamping transaction taxes onto over-the-counter derivatives, regulated derivatives and other financial transactions instead just collecting on the eventual profit. Flash trading will be rather hard to tax but with a will there is a way. The point here is that the tax also quells dangerous types of financial speculation because the tax can be cumulative on an amount of money being passed back and forth.

Luckily, there is also floor that doesn't effect those middle class people with 401ks or other investments.

Lastly, we cannot call for half percent. If you compromise the demand before you start then you open yourself up to getting less and less.

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Response to Vic Vinegar (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 03:55 AM

3. Nice idea.

We should do it right after capitol gains are taxed at the same rate as paychecks.

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Response to Vic Vinegar (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 04:06 AM

4. Fellow nurses have been coming out for this for many years.

I make my living from investment income but I'd welcome such a tax. I'd welcome it because it would take a lot of the profit out of HFT and that would have a chance to unskew the market, at least partially.

I'm for it because it's fair and wouldn't be a hardship on anyone but investment bankers engaging in HFT.

I'm for it because it rewards people who hold equities for a long time, rather than holding them for a nanosecond in the hope of driving the stock price up a quarter of a point. It encourages making money on the health of the economy, not as a gambling exercise.

I'm for it because it's overdue.

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Response to Vic Vinegar (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:51 AM

5. You need to exempt 401ks and 403bs.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:56 AM

6. Screw that, exempt NOTHING

 

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:42 PM

9. Then you're going to have a lot of elderly people living below the poverty line.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:34 PM

11. Utter indifference.

That's often a synonym for "biased empathy."

My mother was a lifelong Democrat, but I usually fought with her. Every decision she liked had to do with money. If it prevented money from going to those she didn't like, she was against it. If it helped money to go to those she did like she was for it.

She called it a variety of names. But pretty much everything had a $.

Our fights were usually when she said she was on the side of morality, while the dirty Republicans only cared about $, so everything with them had to have a dollar payback.

For her abortion was $. Her claim was that she just held it to be a moral issue, but every example she ever gave was $. It prevented women from having to pay for their children, being held hostage by deadbeat dads. It allowed women to work and earn $. for (R) abortion was a purely financial issue. She could never say how, exactly, but it usually involved keeping women out of the workplace so that men would make more money. Still don't quite see how keeping the woman surrounded by expensive kids made for a wealtheir man. Eh.

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Response to Igel (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:43 PM

12. What does that have to do with further eroding the retirement funds of the elderly?

Taxes on investments are about money. So yes, this subject is about money.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:36 AM

15. remember the sales tax

because of the new sales tax, elderly people can be effectively cared for by the state once again. Or at least be able to provide a pool of money to give to hospitals as compensation for services or whatever. sounds like canada but with that much money we would be able to open more hospitals and care facilities for the elderly. With the sales tax building or paying for whatever we need will be no problem. And to be honest if elderly people saw the return on investment of their 401k versus what the sales tax did for people I bet a lot would agree that it was worth it.

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Response to Imnotademocrat (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 09:40 AM

16. So you favor a higher sales tax? What about a higher income tax?

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:47 AM

18. +1

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Response to Imnotademocrat (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:05 AM

17. Sales taxes are inherently regressive

in that they affect the poor disproportionately in comparison to the rich. Like the post above mine, I ask your opinion on raising the income tax - progressively, of course.

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Response to Imnotademocrat (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:53 PM

19. Interesting handle...welcome to DU..

for now..

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Response to Imnotademocrat (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 03:55 PM

20. So you are for a completely regressive sales tax? Why do you feel the need to subsidize the 1%?

Did you mistreat a rich person at some time in your life and you feel the need to atone?

Because I didn't.

Sales taxes favor the rich at the expense of the poor.

Or, to give you the benefit of the doubt, are you talking about the sales tax on financial transactions?

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Response to Squinch (Reply #9)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 09:32 PM

25. One half of 1% is not going to drive anyone into poverty.

The elderly that are living on investments are primarily living on dividends. If they have a $1 million portfolio that they're actively trading, they aren't going to be in poverty either.

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #25)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 11:31 PM

29. Um... no. That's not what we're talking about here.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 10:38 PM

27. no exemptions!

Everyone pays their fair share.

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Response to mwrguy (Reply #27)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 11:33 PM

30. This tax would further erode the finances of the poor elderly unless 401ks and 403bs are exempted.

They're already paying their fair share.

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Response to Vic Vinegar (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:59 AM

7. exemptions etc.

Yes there are exemptions for those using it as a saving mechanism for retirement (401ks, 403b, there is a million dollar floor I believe .)

Another basis of the tax and I hope you can all understand this, is that Wall Street and the Chicago Exchange pay no real tax despite having the largest amount of turnover. Most other industries that actually produce something are taxed but Wall Street generally produces nothing and destroys a lot more through toxic derivative trading. There is a state tax on Wall Street but most of that is returned to the banks for fear that they will go to New Jersey.

We can not just say this is a good idea we must DEMAND it! This is the only way to keep and expand entitlements as well as begin our New Deal.


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Response to Vic Vinegar (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:27 PM

8. Wasn't there an idea for a penny tax for each transaction?

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 02:04 PM

10. Sure and Bernie Sanders

Sure and Bernie Sanders was talking about a .5 % tax on regular transactions and a .005% on derivatives but we do not think that is enough. The tax is double-edged sword; it is for regulation and revenue. Market volatility has been steadily rising since the dismantling of Bretton-Woods, and the Reagan and Clinton bank deregulation. Therefore, in order to quell volatility we need regulation of this sort.

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Response to Vic Vinegar (Reply #10)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 09:26 PM

24. I don't see why derivatives should get a break

Derivatives (which include mortgage backed securities) are what caused the meltdown in 2008. The last thing we need to do is charge a lower tax on them, because then the big banks will focus more of their resources on them.

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Response to Vic Vinegar (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:30 PM

13. Nope, completely against this idea.

....

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Response to woolldog (Reply #13)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:12 AM

14. elaboration would help

elaboration would help, unless if you are trolling

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Response to Vic Vinegar (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 13, 2013, 08:03 AM

31. Most stock trades are done with a broker taking a 1/2% to 3/4 % margin

Put on a 1% tax, and you wipe them right out of a job. Don't be so greedy. Put on a 1/10 of 1% tax, and the government rakes in more than it could possibly imagine due to full compliance brought on by minimal pain brought on by the tax. Put on a tax that is more than the business can tolerate without being driven offshore, and the government gets 1% of nothing. The French government did this years ago, forcing anyone selling gold to pay an 8% tax off the top to the government. So guess where the French people sell their gold? Most of it in Belgium, Germany, Spain, Switzerland or for cash at home. Had they made it half a per cent, the government would have gotten full compliance and the proceeds put right back into the economy, where they rake off 21% or so in VAT anyway.

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Response to Vic Vinegar (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:11 PM

21. There are traders who make a little and traders who make a lot

That's one thing that I never see any talk about. My best friend trades for a living. His wife works part time and he has two kids. As best I can tell, he makes between 50k-75k per year (some years probably more, some years probably less). He also pays for his own insurance, etc.

Now, he does say that it's better than actually working for a living and I agree. But I've also seen him sweat it out (we're really close and I'm privy to stuff that our other friends aren't).

Now, just like the lower income factory worker, a sales tax would affect him more than it would somebody like Mitt Romney. I also realize that some will just tell him to go get a real job (which I can understand) but it's not like the market is just gonna close down or he's gonna stop doing something he's good at.

Anyway, just my 2 pennies.

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Response to WhoWoodaKnew (Reply #21)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 09:20 PM

23. If he's that good at it he should get his trader's license

Then he could work 40 hours a week like the rest of us. Sorry, but I don't think we need to make special rules to protect day traders, just like I don't think hedge fund managers should be paying only capital gains rate on their income.

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #23)

Wed Mar 13, 2013, 08:59 PM

32. I can appreciate that opinion but I've also seen my friend

make very little money in a year. If the rest of us have regular jobs, we just get a paycheck. He, on the other hand, has had years where he made little or no money. He has had quarters where he lost money. None of us, if we keep our jobs, have to worry about that.

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Response to Vic Vinegar (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 04:13 PM

22. One more thing...

I tried trading for a while and was crushed by the commissions. The small trader would have commissions and a sales tax to hurdle.

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Response to Vic Vinegar (Original post)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 10:25 PM

26. SIGN THE PETITION HERE

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/demand-wall-street-sales-tax/Wdq2Rz2Y

Please share this link on Twitter and Facebook.

"The fiscal problems of the United States are largely due to the fact that Wall Street pays no taxes. While working families pay on average 7% in sales tax for the necessities of life, Wall Street speculators pay no tax on a yearly turnover of over $5 quadrillion (5,000 trillion dollars) in derivatives, futures, stocks, bonds and other securities on US exchanges. A 1% sales tax on this turnover, equally divided between the federal and state governments, largely solves the budget deficit at all levels of government."

***************************

Actually, I don't even think it would have to be as high as 1%. One tenth of 1% would net $5 Trillion PER YEAR! Half could be dedicated to reducing the national debt and half could be for infrastructure, education, healthcare etc. The debt would be gone in less than 20 years and our issues with Social Security and Medicare. I still think they should raise or eliminate the wage cap for SS, but this would be a huge step in the right direction, and who can argue against 1/10th of 1%?

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Response to Vic Vinegar (Original post)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 10:50 PM

28. tithe their asses.

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Response to Vic Vinegar (Original post)

Wed Mar 13, 2013, 09:24 PM

33. 1% of what?

purchases?

redemptions?

assets?

What if the assets are international?

The problem with impulsive ideas is that...people don't think about them.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #33)

Wed Mar 13, 2013, 10:26 PM

34. Is it impulsive when 40 countries already have financial transaction taxes?

We aren't inventing the wheel here. However, if all financial transactions were taxed at 1%, that would be 1/100th of $5 QUADRILLION ($5,000,000,000,000,000) of trades per year. That's far more than is needed and likely the GOP and maybe even some Democrats would object. 1% would $50 Trillion. If were made it .1%, it would still raise $5 Trillion PER YEAR and it would be hard to argue that Wall Street can't afford a tenth of a percent. In the interest of paying down the national debt, this seems like a no brainer to me.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #33)

Wed Jul 17, 2013, 08:47 PM

35. Stocks, bonds, and derivatives: ALL TRANSACTIONS with a million dollar exemption per household

Stocks, bonds, and derivatives all transactions. We thought a lot about this idea it comes from a majority of progressive economists, you are just banalizing my rhetoric as the whole idea but rest assured it's fine just google Tobin Tax.

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Response to Vic Vinegar (Original post)

Wed Jul 17, 2013, 09:16 PM

36. Why so low?

 

There needs to be a way to get tgat money from them because capital gains taxes are criminally low

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Response to Vic Vinegar (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 08:06 AM

37. “it’s the stock market stupid”.

The no pain tax is the solution to capitalism

Remember that saying President Clinton had pasted on his door to his office. Actually President Clinton left out an important part of that famous saying in all honesty > “It’s the economy stupid and I helped screw it up”.

Please every president before and since helped screw it up too.

The argument is so easy especially true as many know the real trading in the stock market creates profits in an up or down market. The calculus of the central value theory is core of the system. As grim as much of the economy seems America has the potential to swing into a new paradigm. We are likely at the beginning of a new sweet spot.

In the best of any theory this simple characteristic of taxing in the bull market as profits increase is common good sense. Or, taxing even at a rate in the bear market to include all forms of short selling, put, call, spread, convertibles, warrants, and the classic margin sales are tools for success. Actually tools to make anyone richer, even the startups, plus an advantage for the one percenters to make even more money. This is like a win, win situation, but each person in game plays by the same legislation. How many times we hear Obama saying that over and over.

Notice the concept presented here is to call the guidelines “legislation for the capital market rather than rules.”

From my view rules is like Pythagorean Theorem it never changes, however legal congressional actions change as fast or slowly as liked by the majority.

Rules have to be tightly held to nature, exampling in that we all need air to breath yet insane to contaminate that very air in any respect because it is the necessity to project the capital system self.

The more we all think about it fossil fuel is a deeply embedded structure that is an economic plague. Even the Arabs are running away from their own bounty of this resource.

The down market is and should be the flag for revisions in legislation. Please ladies and gentleman we know misinformation about the stock market is or has been ongoing since its inception. The news medium is hardwired rigged or just plain snatched every micro second via Bloomberg communications system is not honest while indulging in profiteering according to legal actions balanced for the one percent.

The profiteering is a steady flow of legal actions, bills, amendments, with perfectly written state of the art follow up lobbied legal motions. Just plain disrespect for the American basics, all oppressed by the mainstream media. Yes the media know every minute in what is going on, worse saving and stacking collecting meta data files poling projecting through the calculus of matrix math for their favor in power or wealth.

My personal view might be stunning to some because all that collection of wealth is and should have effect on everyone, the concept is called sharing. Just like having the vision to build a highway system it is possible to build an information education system making a human leap other than just a quantum.

It’s not honest to make money for those that hide money in secret accounts. Obviously these types of persons lost the flavor of moving humanity in a pleasant direction, moreover instills the threat of a corrupt gaming society, where America along with the international community is at now. Whereas we the people must move forward with the pursuit of happiness a basic fundamental truth in the Constitution avoiding carnage.

Changing the dark tunnel of finance would be to eliminate decades of secret Swiss bank accounts, and, the secret connection to the Federal Reserve, they are the real secret pipeline of the One Percenters.

All that tax money likely is the basic derivative of poor and middle class tax money. All running twenty four seven by legal action. America could run in a good way if the media was honest in its reporting. Every once in a while someone appears that is called a whistleblower, the train is in the distance, do you hear the whistle, a warning to stay clear, or anyone in the way could face danger, the system was checked, is there a fault in the system, is the track in operating condition, or is the train a faulty design accident ready.

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Response to Vic Vinegar (Original post)

Sat Jul 20, 2013, 05:44 PM

38. One percent could be kinda steep...

The price of some stock has gotten outrageous...Google is going for $896.60/share, Apple for $424.95...since you buy stock in 100-share blocks, you'd have to pay $425 sales tax on each block of Apple or $896 sales tax on each block of Google.

Do you REALLY think the people who own Congress are going to buy into that shit?

I would much rather see one of these two alternative tax plans.

First would be a flat five-cents-per-share transaction tax on any equity security and flat 10-cents-per-share transaction tax on any non-equity security.

The second would be a tax that predicates on the length of time the security is held...range it from 15 cents per share on any security held less than 10 seconds to nothing on any security held for a year. You would pay the fifteen cents when you buy, and you'd get the money you overpaid back when you sell.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #38)

Tue Jul 23, 2013, 12:41 AM

39. nuances

Yeh but you can't make your solution into a basic propaganda point; you can't turn THAT (time-based taxation on flash trading) into a mass traction demand. We are looking for a policy, the Wall Street Sales tax that the impoverished masses and middle class can agree on.
The details of the tax will have to be decided by policy officials anyway; which we are not.

And about the shares: there is a MILLION dollar allowance (adjustable for inflation) per person per household from the tax. That means that you would not be taxed if you owned 1116 shares of Apple.

On the 1%, we have to expect that congress is going to undercut the 1% to .5% and then to .25% and so on and so forth; that is why you have to start high otherwise you end up like Obama who compromises his own position before anyone even asks him to.

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