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Thu Jan 17, 2013, 08:27 PM

Ended a friendship today.

Maybe I overreacted. I don't know. We weren't best of friends, but I've known him well for the past eight years. He's pretty conservative, which I've tolerated, but today he was pushing that Sandy Hook was a hoax. I can't be friends with someone like that anymore than I could be friends with an open racist (or a closet racist, though, that would be harder to detect, I guess).

So, I told him I couldn't associate anymore with someone who bought into that type of conspiracy. I got slammed for not respecting opinions ... but do I really have to respect everyone's opinion when, you know, I really don't? To me, views like this, hateful and dangerous views like this, shouldn't be accepted ... by anyone.

It's sad and if I see him in person, which I assume I will, I won't be mean to him or even cold ... but I can't associate with these people. They embarrass me. Harsh? Am I overreacting?

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Arrow 115 replies Author Time Post
Reply Ended a friendship today. (Original post)
Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 OP
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #1
roguevalley Jan 2013 #71
Protalker Jan 2013 #2
2naSalit Jan 2013 #3
Rider3 Jan 2013 #83
2naSalit Jan 2013 #86
appleannie1 Jan 2013 #4
ZombieHorde Jan 2013 #5
Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #7
ZombieHorde Jan 2013 #8
Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #11
ZombieHorde Jan 2013 #12
hopemountain Jan 2013 #49
SouthernDonkey Jan 2013 #58
kardonb Jan 2013 #74
Rockyj Jan 2013 #101
catbyte Jan 2013 #89
ZombieHorde Jan 2013 #92
Lifelong Protester Jan 2013 #6
kairos12 Jan 2013 #9
SunSeeker Jan 2013 #10
derby378 Jan 2013 #13
MynameisBlarney Jan 2013 #14
Brigid Jan 2013 #15
MichiganVote Jan 2013 #16
baldguy Jan 2013 #17
agracie Jan 2013 #52
williamc1967txlib Jan 2013 #54
salinen Jan 2013 #18
LibGranny Jan 2013 #19
Hekate Jan 2013 #20
obxhead Jan 2013 #21
jenmito Jan 2013 #22
another_liberal Jan 2013 #23
BainsBane Jan 2013 #24
Ilsa Jan 2013 #25
BlueDemKev Jan 2013 #26
southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #27
hay rick Jan 2013 #28
rightsideout Jan 2013 #29
SleeplessinSoCal Jan 2013 #30
awoke_in_2003 Jan 2013 #31
abelenkpe Jan 2013 #32
coldbeer Jan 2013 #33
Kalidurga Jan 2013 #34
The Wizard Jan 2013 #35
truebluegreen Jan 2013 #42
healthnut7 Jan 2013 #36
russspeakeasy Jan 2013 #37
RoccoRyg Jan 2013 #38
Chorophyll Jan 2013 #39
rateyes Jan 2013 #40
truebluegreen Jan 2013 #41
JHB Jan 2013 #61
SwankyXomb Jan 2013 #94
truebluegreen Jan 2013 #108
Vietnameravet Jan 2013 #105
truebluegreen Jan 2013 #107
Vietnameravet Jan 2013 #109
truebluegreen Jan 2013 #113
ReRe Jan 2013 #43
LittleGirl Jan 2013 #44
Claybrains Jan 2013 #45
freshwest Jan 2013 #46
cer7711 Jan 2013 #47
BellaKos Jan 2013 #55
cer7711 Jan 2013 #62
kimbutgar Jan 2013 #68
NBachers Jan 2013 #48
ellisonz Jan 2013 #50
graham4anything Jan 2013 #51
Cha Jan 2013 #53
GeorgeGist Jan 2013 #56
KansDem Jan 2013 #57
lunatica Jan 2013 #59
alcibiades_mystery Jan 2013 #60
davidpdx Jan 2013 #63
CANDO Jan 2013 #64
Pool Hall Ace Jan 2013 #65
jmondine Jan 2013 #66
surrealAmerican Jan 2013 #67
azlatina Jan 2013 #69
yellerpup Jan 2013 #70
mgardener Jan 2013 #72
Old Codger Jan 2013 #73
Populist_Prole Jan 2013 #75
Iggo Jan 2013 #76
patrice Jan 2013 #77
Jenoch Jan 2013 #78
MessiahRp Jan 2013 #79
barbiegeek Jan 2013 #80
helderheid Jan 2013 #81
ReallyIAmAnOptimist Jan 2013 #96
Rider3 Jan 2013 #82
Paladin Jan 2013 #84
Pisces Jan 2013 #85
wryter2000 Jan 2013 #87
Janecita Jan 2013 #88
Rowdyboy Jan 2013 #90
Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #93
Recursion Jan 2013 #111
Rowdyboy Jan 2013 #112
Pakid Jan 2013 #91
amuse bouche Jan 2013 #95
Whovian Jan 2013 #97
Iwillnevergiveup Jan 2013 #98
quakerboy Jan 2013 #99
nobodyspecial Jan 2013 #100
gateley Jan 2013 #102
hrmjustin Jan 2013 #103
elfin Jan 2013 #104
Vietnameravet Jan 2013 #106
DeschutesRiver Jan 2013 #110
cer7711 Jan 2013 #115
libodem Jan 2013 #114

Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 08:33 PM

1. Nope. I've never understood why anyone would tolerate a hateful person,

yet alone call them 'friend'.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 12:14 PM

71. people who buy hoax theories kill the victims again. no good person can respect that

He is an idiot. Good for you

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 08:35 PM

2. 20 tiny coffins

ask yourself what have you lost who can overlook this tragedy and think of it is a hoax. Doesn't empathy integrity compassion mean anything to these people? Move up and on best of luck to you.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 08:44 PM

3. Perhaps you can look at it this way

You have done yourself a service to your self respect. You have no obligation, even if you've been on friendly terms in the past, to honor an opinion that is based on absolute nonsense... and when the holder of that opinion has no interest in listening to reason. What do you owe to a mindset that is that far removed from reality? Nothin'. And it sounds as though you made an effort to reason with this individual. Walk away and know you are a better person for doing so. To try and nurture a relationship with someone who can't honor your opinion is only casting pearls before swine and you have no business feeding that negativity.

It might sting at first but you will feel better about yourself in the next few days, really.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:51 PM

83. Great post!

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Response to Rider3 (Reply #83)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:07 PM

86. Thanks.

It's a philosophy that took me many hard lessons to learn but I think I've got it now. My New Year's resolution (I'm not one to make those and this is a first for me) is to think say and act in positive manner at all times, diffuse situations where anger or fear are present and walk my talk a little better than I have in the past. I make improvements as I go along but this time I have made a very strong commitment, and posting on the two blogs I participate in are the big test at this point. My in person events are pretty much under control but online is a different animal so taming that is my challenge this year.

It appears that the OP is on a similar path, in a positive direction.

Thanks for noticing!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 08:46 PM

4. No and it is his loss.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 08:49 PM

5. I don't think I would end a friendship over that.

Most of my friends are skeptics, so I don't hear a lot of conspiracy theories in real life, but I think I would have just laughed and debated the subject with him.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 08:57 PM

7. That's cool...

But I see no reason to laugh at this subject.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 09:02 PM

8. I would have laughed because of shock, not humor. nt

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 09:07 PM

11. Maybe. I just don't have it in me anymore to care enough to debate with these people...

I've spent the last four years debating about Obama's birth certificate, the fact he was born in America and not Kenya and that he is a Christian and not a Muslim. This, though, is an entirely whole new level of stupid. The family of one of the girls who died, Emilie Parker, is from my state and I know many people who've met Emilie and her parents in the past. To me, when you're dealing with children, and grief struck families, to insinuate their pain is not real ... or their suffering did not happen is absolutely disgraceful and no different, from my perspective, than those who deny the holocaust or hate someone because of their color.

These are people I do not want to associate with and could never really consider friends.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 09:10 PM

12. You definately know better than me who you should associate with.

I hope it works out well for you.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:34 AM

49. completely understand what you are going through

i have family that during the election were intolerable assholes with that crap. there are 3 conspiracy theorists who listen to the bullshit - and we no longer talk.

it's kind of nice not to have to censor my thoughts or speech - or feel my muscles clench when those 3 are around.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 06:56 AM

58. +++1,000

Could not agree more!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 12:43 PM

74. fdebate

it is useless to debate these conspiracy fanatics . Facts do not matter to them , only hateful ideology . Limpballs has their brain set in reinforced concrete that even a 5-ton bunker buster won't penetrate .

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:27 PM

101. I haven't had a Facbook since 2008...

...because I grew so tired of trying to educate some old friends and family members. Your ex-friend has gone beyond reason, sanity and compassion, and it would be a waste of time trying to educate him. You did the right thing.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 03:29 PM

89. Your former friend disrespected those 26 victims and everyone who loves them, DI

Good for you. Perhaps the massacre was too much for your former friend to process, but it does no one any good to pretend it didn't happen. It's a despicable and pathetic mindset and you don't need to be around its noxious influence. You've got plenty of friends here!

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Response to catbyte (Reply #89)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 04:18 PM

92. You may have posted this to the wrong reply, as opposed to the OP.

Just letting you know in case you wish to repost it.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 08:56 PM

6. I think you did the right thing

I would have done the same. But hey, we're Irish, right?

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 09:03 PM

9. Blind To A Massacre

To the families of Newtown that massacre was a personal holocaust. I don't think you would spend time with Holocaust deniers in the larger historical sense, so why have a relationship that denies such evil in our world today. Just my thoughts.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 09:05 PM

10. You did the right thing. And you made space in your life for a better friend.

You don't need people like that in your life. Life is too short. Be with people who make you happy and help you acheive your goals, rather than frustrate you. You deserve better.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 09:23 PM

13. Not everyone in the world can be your friend

There's just so much of you to go around - if you spread yourself too thin, you'll go nuts trying to.

And as for someone like this, I'd rather not associate with them, either. You did the right thing.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 09:27 PM

14. Nope.

You did the right thing.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 09:30 PM

15. I don't think you overreacted.

No one has the time or the energy to waste on this sort of stupidity. We have too.much work to do .

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 09:38 PM

16. To deny the deaths of these innocents is to shoot them all over again. Not 4 me. Not 4 U.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 09:43 PM

17. People have a right to their own opinions.

People do not have a right to have those opinions respected.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #17)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:17 AM

52. ...their own opinions, but not their own facts. n/t

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Response to baldguy (Reply #17)


Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 09:57 PM

18. I would have been much worse

 

What's behind the Sandy Hook conspiracy is the fear that they're coming after their guns, so, they fabricate another story. The deaths of tots is serious and they know it. So, in their feeble little fucked up brains, they must deflect the attention away from massacred babies to whatever. Total cowards.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:08 PM

19. Not at all - your reaction was appropriate!

I also gave up a friendship this week because we argued about whether the "government was going to take his guns"! I can't believe the ignorance/stupidity of some people (although I didn't say that). What REALLY angered me was when he called President Obama "your President"! I reminded him that all of us put up with bushie's crap for 8 years and he could tolerate Obama for that length of time. I also told him to grow up!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:14 PM

20. You did the right thing, DI. It's sad to lose a friendly acquaintance that you thought better of...

... I mean, that you thought he was a better person than he turned out to be.

But as it seems he can turn a blind eye to the deaths of 20 little 5 and 6 year olds and their teachers, and not only that but deny it ever happened and make up a story about it being some filthy government conspiracy -- well, I myself would have walked away in shock and never looked back. There's no redeeming value in an acquaintance like that. In fact I would say there's no redemption, except I do believe people are capable of redemption IF they want it and work for it. It's just I can't do it for them, and neither can you.

It hurts though.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:19 PM

21. Hoax?

W.. T...F!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:20 PM

22. You did the right thing. K&R. n/t

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:21 PM

23. You may have helped . . .

You may have helped your friend begin to see how wrong he is to buy into that kind of nonsense. Your rejection may be just the jolt that he needed.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:21 PM

24. I couldn't either

Frankly it raises a lot of questions bout his mental capacity.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:24 PM

25. I lost a friend of 25 years because

She's become so right-wing radicalized over the last year. She became a birther, said Obama was trying to take away their guns, thought everyone should be armed, and is expecting the "zombies" to try and steal her massive food supply.

But that wasn't why I dumped her. It was over her intrusive behavior, trying to tell me how to parent, etc. I excused it for as long as I could, but decided she wasn't worth it any more.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:26 PM

26. It's hard to have a "friendship" with someone like that.

Simply because their way of thinking is freaky. Although I probably would have just said "Oh sure man, it was ALL a hoax. All those parents crying and the little caskets you've seen on television is all put on so big bad Obama can come take your guns away....sheesh!" and then I wouldn't go out of my way to see him again.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:27 PM

27. You did what you felt was right. There does come a point when enough is enough. I think

 

this issue alone would do it for me. Shame on your ex-friend. I don't think you overreacted. Maybe if you see him say hello and keep walking. He'll think about and maybe he'll change his mind. But you shouldn't be stressed over it. You did right.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:30 PM

28. I don't think any functional adult can be that stupid.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but they're not always entitled to have their opinions taken seriously. And sometimes people express opinions that are so repellent that they also forfeit respect. I would have written him off.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:31 PM

29. You did the right thing

Anybody who thinks Newton is a hoax or a staged government conspiracy to push a gun control agenda is not living in reality.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:33 PM

30. Anyone who is buying this hoax story, likely has many other disqualifying traits for friendship.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:34 PM

31. Sometimes you have to say...

good riddance to bad trash. Some people just cannot be reasoned with.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:34 PM

32. At least you're not related to him

My mother is a birther/tea partier. Luckily she lives 3200 miles away. Called her the other day to get an idea of what my uncle might like for his birthday to have her suggest it was a hoax as well. Shouldn't have been surprised given her other beliefs but yeah, moments like that make me glad she is so far away. Made me sick. So no you don't have to be nice or associate with nuts like your former friend. And don't feel bad about it either. You aren't being intolerant. Think of it as self preservation.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:37 PM

33. My son unfriended his in-laws on facebook!

They are still close friends. My young man just could not
tolerate the hoax story. He never takes sides in the facebook
exchanges figuring everyone is welcome to their opinions. He
shares four children and his wife with the in-laws, but he just
could not tolerate their argument.

I warned him about facebook. I do not do facebook. This is it for me.
DU is great!!!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:38 PM

34. I think you did the right thing...

I know a lot of people think that the hoaxers are horrible people. Some of them probably are. However, some of them are using the hoax theory to shield their pain. I am pretty sure of that. The reason I am pretty sure of that is that the were people on both sides of the political spectrum that said 9/11 was a hoax. Some believed that people really died. Some believed that no one was actually killed, they didn't say crisis actors, but they did believe that those deaths were fake. Many people have a hard time processing such horror. It took me a long time. I was angry about it for years. I am not sure that I am completely over it even now, I am pretty sure but who knows what lurks deep in my brain. Anyway, some are horrible people though that have concocted this story to prove that guns aren't the problem and that it is a vast Left Wing Conspiracy to take away their guns, those people should be ashamed. The others need help, possibly a crisis intervention to deal with their grief.

I don't think there is anyway to tell the two apart. But, if your ex friend is a tea bagger type good riddance any excuse will do and that is a good indication he is a horrible person just wanting to keep his guns at any cost.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:45 PM

35. They don't sell time at the corner store

Don't waste it on or with crazy people.

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Response to The Wizard (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:57 PM

42. Great response.

I'm so stealing that.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:46 PM

36. Send him this!!

Maybe his heart will warm up to this.

This was tweeted by Ellen Degeners, it is so beautiful and this young girl is amazing.

I hope this is okay to put here.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:49 PM

37. I don't think you did. I'm down to about 6 people that I will talk with.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:52 PM

38. Conspiracy nuts

These paranoid dolts think everything on the news is the work of the Illuminati or whatever. I actually saw a YouTube video where someone claimed that Trayvon Martin was killed because his father is a Mason and it was a Satanic sacrifice. I thought it was a joke at first, but it wasn't. You can't argue with these people.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:53 PM

39. Some opinions just aren't worth respecting.

I mean, a person who thinks Sandy Hook was a hoax is treading in some really, really ugly territory.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:54 PM

40. My line with such people is, "We are friends to the end, and

by god, this is the end."

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 10:56 PM

41. I hate it when people insist I have to respect their opinions.

I don't. I only have to defend to the death their right to hold them, or express them, which is not at all the same thing. (And when you think about it, the demand they make is the same as demanding that I agree with them--what else does "respect my opinion" really mean?)

It's the same misperception (at best) that surrounds the First Amendment Right of Free Speech. Some people--mostly conservatives--think they should be able to say whatever they want, and suffer no consequences. That's not what the Constitution says.

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #41)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 08:17 AM

61. Exactly. "Respect your opinion? Do you respect MY opinion that...

...you are a gullible f***head and I now have to question your entire grip on reality on all matters? That your abandonment of critical thinking in order to support your pet viewpoint on an issue reduces the value of your opinion on everything? So be it! I respect that you are a dumbass who cannot evaluate the breathless buzz of his preferred circle of bullshit sprayers."

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #41)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 04:42 PM

94. I believe it was Harlan Ellison who said

We are not entitled to opinions, we are entitled to informed opinions. No one is entitled to be ignorant,

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Response to SwankyXomb (Reply #94)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 08:07 PM

108. Certainly not entitled to hold un-informed opinions without challenge.

Welcome to DU.

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #41)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:41 PM

105. Nice thoughts but

I have to honestly say I will be damned if I defend them to the death.. I might offer a word or two on their behalf of their right to speak but I would not defend them to the death..in fact I would not even get in a heated argument on their behalf.. Let them fight their own battles..

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Response to Vietnameravet (Reply #105)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 08:04 PM

107. I hear what you are saying and the "defend to the death" thing

was a quote.

But the point is, if we are not willing to defend everyone's civil liberties, then why have them?

IMHO the battles we need to fight are the ones that demonstrate how wrong-headed their freely-expressed opinions are.

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #107)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 10:43 PM

109. Y^es I know its a quote and

I understand what you were saying,,..I was being a bit flippant when I said that..

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Response to Vietnameravet (Reply #109)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 08:11 AM

113. I certainly understand, flippant or not

Many's the time I'd like nothing more than to whack the RWNJs with something heavy.

Just to get their attention, of course.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 11:13 PM

43. Ha! (as Tweety says it)

Drunken Irishman, you just keep doing what you're doing. You have excellent judgement, my friend. I do what you did with this guy without even noticing. It's a way of life for me. And therefore, I don't have to get stuck listening to their BS anymore. There's no way you can change them, so why spend time with them? I shun them because of health reasons...high BP.

I didn't quite understand that Sandy Hook conspiracy business, but I figured it out for sure and finally yesterday.... I have utterly no doubt that the NRA or a hardcore member, started the whole thing. Just when you think they can't go any lower, they start the fucking rumor. I would probably have clubbed the guy, Drunken Irishman. Look, he wasn't your friend to begin with. You lost nothing. Remember the old adage "With friends like that, who needs enemies?"
Not harsh and not overreacting. Keep on keeping on...

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 11:22 PM

44. Don't fret. I have unfriended several

family members and friends from middle school that have gone waaaay over to the dark side. But I also blame their lack of education (no college) and they listen to Rush everyday and watch Faux Spews every night. Don't have anything to do with them anymore. Don't regret it.

Good for you!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 11:50 PM

45. I had to call someone out for this shit too.

Sometimes when shit comes your way, you don't repost it. You report it as malicious. I normally don't call people out for false information, but this time I did. Her friends were buying into it. It was quickly followed by a succession of comments about it's validity. Propaganda spreads faster than diarrhea.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 11:52 PM

46. Drunken Irishman, I have two things to share with you:


First:



Posted here on this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=92509

It is a cool analysis and debunking of what over ten million people have been watching (the Prison Planet video most likely) that has been running since the morning the kids were gunned down. Your friend has no doubt seen this or talked to some of the many more millions who fall for this.

Second:

As regards this series of rumors making the rounds, as they are anti-semitic tones in them with Mr. Rosen's information being posted on Stormfront. He is being harrassed as part of a hastily made conspiracy theme to claim it's the 'Jews' and 'Obama' and all of that, a story to let you relate to him about guillibility.

I have a dear friend in Scandinavia. She wanted to tell me her family history, and something she was ashamed about even though it was before she was born. Her grandparents lived through the German occupation of their country in WW2.

They were farmers and Germans wanted their goods so they sold them to them. They didn't know what Hilter was doing with the death camps. When the war ended, they, among others were singled out for punishment for consorting with them and sentenced to prison.

As she related what her grandmother told her, she said that whenver she spoke of it she wept, begging her to believe that they did not know about it. How did she learn that what she was being told as they were arrested was true?

This is how. They sent her and her husband to clean up the concentration camps with the Germans. She saw what was done and wept for the Jews.

So, the question is, what is it that your friend or any of these people who, for reasons as DP gives in the video, need to convince him of the truth of this matter?

Do you remember the story on DU of the county worker at the morgue who was punished for letting her husband come and see the bodies? Is that what they want, to see the bloody children's bodies so disfigured by the shots fired, that first responders said they had trouble identifying them? Are the police, firemen, EMTs, all of them lying?

Wouid he have needed to see the little Jewish boy, whose mother insisted on an open casket, to let people see what had been done to her baby? It was carried in the papers. And that a bandage had to be placed over his lower face, as it and his jaw were no longer there?

What will it take to convince them that anything they hear, other than seducing conspiracy talk from the mouth of a man who makes his living selling fear and outrage, whose vision of the future is nothing but betrayal, tribalism, horror and death? Who would be called, in any other age, a raving demagogue?

Is it a sweet voice in his ear, that makes his blood run hot with outrage and gives him purpose what he really wants?

Maybe you can make him remember life and the good days he has had. Make him count his blessings, as I am sure he has many. What does he think he will gain by believing this, and what does he think others lose by not going along? Really, what's in it for whom?

Just a few ideas to work with this man. If you were ever friends for other reasons, but he grieves you and will not respect YOUR opinion as well, but would rather listen to the siren call of decievers, it may be there is nothing you can do.

Good luck. And your opinion and beliefs are as valuable as his. Tolerance goes both ways.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Jan 17, 2013, 11:59 PM

47. You Did the Right Thing

Last edited Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:01 AM - Edit history (4)

I, too, have ended personal friendships with ardent right-wingers. One I had known for over 20 years. This man--a very smart man in some ways, I might add (IT professional)--was gleefully, gigglingly happy over the amount of guns and ammo being sold after Obama first won office (yeah, that long ago). His reaction revolted, chilled and sickened me. The hair prickled on my forearms and the back of my neck as I distinctly remember saying to myself, "This is what sitting in the presence of evil feels like."

The thing is he's not a white guy but an American of Chinese ethnicity who listens to El Rusbo, Hannity, O'Reilly, et. al. (Which explains everything and nothing. Why can't these listeners/viewers see through the right's hate-mongering BS?)

We got into a spirited discussion about the reality/non-reality of global climate change a day or two later.

Just before the discussion ended I asked him: "Tell me something, Mr. X. I've given you facts, cited the opinions of respected scientific authorities, provided verifiable hard data and explained to you, in detail, why and how GCC is occurring. Yet still you insist it's 'all a hoax.' So what would it take to change your mind?"

He barked out some nonsense and I said, "No, I'm completely serious. Let's say I have it all wrong. Let's assume for the sake of argument that everything I just told you is incorrect and/or misrepresented and/or objectively false or otherwise in error. What additional or alternate set of verifiable, objective facts would cause you to change your mind on this issue?"

He answered, with some heat, "Nothing! I will never change my opinion on this issue because it's all lefty, enviro-fascist nonsense."

I set my iced tea down carefully and studied him for a moment. "What you just said, Mr. X., proves that you do not have an open, rational mind on this topic. You have erected a 'reality-impermeable' barrier in your mind through which no facts can pass. In short, yours is a religious conviction, not an informed opinion. And you do not have the right to be ignorant and willfully-stupid on this issue, given that you are, in most other respects, a man of great intelligence and wisdom. The stakes are too high. The time to fix things may already be too late. It is willful stupidity like your own which may have already condemned the human race to extinction in the very infancy of its lifespan."

I ended our friendship the next day, cutting off all further personal contact. Painful, yes--but sometimes the only way to communicate the level of horror and dismay we feel to these ardent right-wingers is to punish them for maintaining a paranoiac, facts-impermeable, reality-distortion bubble around themselves. Yes, there is a frightened, squawking, ID-dominate child within that bubble--who may then fall even deeper in thrall to hostile, hate-mongering forces who reinforce that bubble--but the ultimate responsibility for that moral failing is their own, not ours. The social sanction of "shunning" may, in fact, be the only thing that gets through to these people. And you--like me, like others--are under no obligation to literally spend the rest of our own lives in fruitless, irritating, circular, ridiculous argument with hateful, reality-denying people.

Life is too short. And we owe it to ourselves and our loved ones to spend more quality time with our own.

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Response to cer7711 (Reply #47)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 03:35 AM

55. Right.

cer7711 -- Your view mirrors my own. I've wrestled with this for years. John Dean's book, "Conservatives Without Conscience," offers some explanation for the authoritarian mindset, which research has shown is one of the reasons the people of Germany allowed the rise of the Nazis. Another book by David Brock, "Blinded by the Right, traces the beginning of this vast right-wing network of media distortion to Nixon's appeal to Southern racists in the election of 1968. And another thing to keep in mind is that the polarization of today is similar to that of the 1850s right before the Civil War. The abolishionists were right, of course, but they were hunted down in the streets in some sectors for their belief that slavery was wrong.

So history clearly shows that what we may view as irritating and ridiculous can grow into something dangerous and evil over time. This right-wing nuttery which is obviously the result of brainwashing is dangerous and should be roundly condemned -- not presented as the "opposing point of view" on CNN as is too often the case.

Yes, shun them. But keep in mind that they have lots of guns and think that "liberals" are destroying 'Merica. All Rush or Hannity or Beck or Alex Jones have to do at this point to incite them to come after you is to *insinuate* that now is the time. And apparently, "liberals" are too rational and reasonable to consider such an outrageous possibility, but all one has to do is to look at history to see that such an outcome has happened before.

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Response to BellaKos (Reply #55)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 08:25 AM

62. That's What Really Worries Me

An unrelenting day-in, day-out drumbeat of hate speech leads, inevitably, to inspiring some of society's most unbalanced lost souls to committ acts of violence for "the cause".

Historically-speaking it can, and has, happened on the left as well as the right, of course.

But in this country, right now--at this particular time and place--the danger is clearly coming from the neo-fascist right.

And they mean business.

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Response to cer7711 (Reply #62)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 11:46 AM

68. My husband works with two guys who are becoming more angry about losing their guns

I worry about these guys because they sound like they are becoming more unhinged as this gun debate continues on. I get scared that these guys will get their marching orders one day from Rush, Levin etal to start shooting liberals and my husband would be first on the list as he is an outspoken liberal and proud of it. I keep telling my husband to stop talking politics with them and keep his distance but he believes he needs to present the views to them of the other side. This is very worrisome to me on a daily basis. My husband says they are good guys just brainwashed but brainwashed people do things sometimes that they would not normally do.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:17 AM

48. You, Drunken Irishman, have no obligation to soak up this guy's shit that he's putting out

and you have no obligation to support him in his delusion.

Back away from his poison and put it out of your life.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:55 AM

50. Some people just can't be helped by you holding their hand...

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:17 AM

51. Good for you!!! These conspiracy theorists are like the worst cult imaginable

 

heard the same crap after 9-11
people actually thought the 3000 people didn't die.
Tell that to their loved ones.

as I am Jewish, have also heard the same bullshit from the racists, anti-semites saying the Holocaust never happened.

These conspiracy theorist people want to go back to before the Civil War.
All they do is hate, hate, hate

remember when Hillary said there was a vast rightwing conspiracy and Fox and Drudge laughed at her?
That was no theory, that was 100% true.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:23 AM

53. Not easy to "respect" victims of brainwashing. I consider

it a favor to him to call him out.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 05:12 AM

56. Good for you.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 06:33 AM

57. When I was growing up, my Mom would say...

...that there would be things I don't want to do that I would have to do.

Overall, that was sound advice. It taught me to rise above the petty distractions of school and work and to see the job done as a source of pride. It was a valuable lesson in life skills. But as I face my third period on this planet (I turn 60 in a couple of weeks), I've discovered that I am less tolerant of unacceptable behavior as I used to be.

It's a matter of outlook: I tolerated less-than-desirable situations because, as my mom said "there would be things..." but now I look toward an inner peace as I only have a couple of decades left (if I'm lucky!). And that does not mean I should "respect opinions" that thwart the search for that inner peace. I just don't see the need.

My friends currently amount to only a handful. But they are close friends with whom I share beliefs and values. Everyone else I put in the periphery.

Yes, I still hear intolerably ridiculous opinions; I have coworkers who still believe Obama is a Muslim. But it's almost to the point now that when they talk, I tune them out. I see their jaws move and the tongues wag, but I'm thinking about the single-malt scotch I'll be having that evening followed by a chipotle-salmon burger, or the jazz I'll be listening to when I get home, or "paling around" with my 16-year-old son (we like to do echolalia from classic movies! He does a great Edward G. Robinson impersonation!). It's just that I don't have the time left to put up with respecting the opinions of others when those opinions are the product of right-wing myth and superstition.

Thanks, Mom, for the advice and guidance, but there are things I don't have to do that I don't want to do!

Best of luck with your situation, Drunken Irishman!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:12 AM

59. Hell no! You didn't overreact

I've done the exact same thing all my life with people who are racist, jingoist or sexist. I don't have room in my life to coddle haters. I've always been intolerant of intolerance.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:59 AM

60. People often mistake respecting somebody's right to have an opinion with respecting the opinion

You're quite right that the two are separate. I respect opinion as a formal matter, not in terms of content.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 09:32 AM

63. I've lost a few friends over the last few monts

as I'm sure there are plenty of others who have had the same experience. I finally just got fucking sick and tired of it and booted them off my Facebook list.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 09:41 AM

64. Refute the bullshit calmly

Yesterday I looked up the various information, such as the state medical examiner who said all the victims died by a .223 caliber bullet. To the head of state police announcing what weapons were found where. To the guy in the woods, who turned out to be a parent trying to gain entry into the school to find his son. I presented all this information to three gun clingers who were discussing the " hoax". Two of the three accepted the information as fact and called the hoax for what it is. Third guy went on rant about not believing what any government or media official says. Some people cannot be reached, but two out of three isn't bad!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 09:45 AM

65. Don't blame you one bit.

It is only recently that I realized that there are so many cuckoos out there who believe the Sandy Hook shooting was a hoax. I've seen some creepy videos about how Emilie Parker's family worships the devil, photos are edited to include her, she's actually still alive and appeared in a photo with President Obama . . . just jaw-dropping lunacy.

I would run like hell and never look back at someone like that.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 09:54 AM

66. Denying reality is not an opinion

Sandy Hook happened. Your former friend does not get to pick and choose his facts, no matter how much he might not like them.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 11:41 AM

67. That's not an opinion ...

... it's a delusion.


I don't see your response as being an overreaction.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 11:48 AM

69. I unfriended someone on FaceBook last night...

...after reading several of his pro-gun rants. Last night he posted no one was going to take his guns, he has several unregistered guns & dares anyone to take them from him. Along with his rant, he also posted the picture of President Obama surrounded by kids signing the executive order along with the photo of Hitler surrounded by kids. I just do not understand the mentality of these gun owners...

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 11:49 AM

70. No, you are not overreacting.

You can respect someone's right to have an opinion, but you don't have to respect their opinion.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 12:16 PM

72. Not overreacting.

I lost a friend when Bush was elected. She and her husband had hidden their conservative bias well. When Bush was elected it was like a switch was turned on. We agreed not to talk about politics, but it was awkward.
After 9/11 we were at a gathering an a remark was made, that, "we should kill all the Iraqi's before they killed us". They left the gathering rather abruptly and I see them rarely.
I could not remain friendly with them knowing how they felt.

Every person has their limits. It is sad to end a friendship, but if you cannot tolerate that mindset, there is nothing wrong with walking away. Doesn't have to be permanent. People do change their opinions.

I believe that if we don't stand up for what we believe in, then we are allowing the nonsense, bigotry and craziness to flourish.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 12:20 PM

73. NO

No need to respect opinions based on fiction.... best answer to that has been around for quite a while now, "They are entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts"

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 12:58 PM

75. I fear I'm going to lose my 2 best friends, and it's going to be the gun issue I'm sure.

Signs of intense friction abound. They're both older than me. We were all gun enthusiasts, and I still am. Back through the 90's I was actually further to the right politically then them, as they were fairly solid democratic voters due mostly to economic issues, and I guess I was somewhat of a RINO.

Well fast forward to 2008-ish:

One, who never cared much for people of color, became an increasingly angry and bigoted, and just went hard right during the presidential campaign of '08.

The other, retired somewhat comfortably and moved out to the country and runs with some fundie friends ( although I'm pretty sure he hasn't become one himself ) and though previously uninterested in guns, has really did a 180.

Both have become paranoid gun nuts ( well before sandy hook ) and are very conservative all of a sudden on many issues. At the same time I've become less conservative ( more liberal? ) as the conservatives/republicans moved off into crazy land. They are single issue gun voters now. I'm not. They are quite irritated with me because of this. It is only because we don't talk very often due to work/life schedules that a big blow-up argument didn't happen. I fear one will.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:11 PM

76. Respect that they're ENTITLED to an opinion.

You don't have to respect every (or even any) opinion.

EDIT: Oh yeah, kicking him to the curb is the right call.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:14 PM

77. Sometimes ending it is a respectful act, to them & to yourself. The questions are about

what is appropriate to the specific traits and experiences of the relationship, including whatever efforts were made on the behalf of one another to be honest and still have a relationship, and timing.

One can't respect a dishonesty.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:16 PM

78. I was switching radio stations while

driving the other day and stopped on the local conservative-leaning station. The talk was about gun control and a woman called in and started in about how the Sandy Hook shooting was a hoax. The host, although not in favor of a lot of new gun laws, jumped on the caller and basically told her she was full of shit.

I believe there is a certain percentage of people, from any political persusion, that are susceptible to conspiracy theories.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:20 PM

79. I've spent much of the last 6 months defriending Right Wingers

I know I am going to hear from people who say it's not a good policy to insulate yourself with like-minded thinkers but this really isn't about this at all. This is about defriending total fucking whack-a-loons.

And it's not a situation where you can reason with these people and bring them around. The vast majority of them are concrete set in their opinions and your opinion only makes them more willing to sink lower to defend themselves against what they view as far left communist points of view.

There's no respectful debate or thoughtful discourse to be had here and no true persuasion can be made no matter how many facts, studies or sources I have to support my logical point of view versus their angry, rage induced, fear riddled conspiracy theories.

So why bother?

Also for people that think friendships should outweigh politics, I have a hard time with that. I view your politics as who you are.

-If you support assault weapons and the NRA, you're endorsing arming maniacs, in my opinion because there's no fucking hunting use for an AR-15 unless you're the world's worst fucking hunter.

-If you're anti-abortion to the point of legislation to criminalize it, you hate women and don't believe they should have control of their bodies.

-If you're against gay marriage, you're a hateful bigot who thinks equality isn't worth having in our country.

-If you rail against illegal immigrants as if they are the reason for every problem and refuse to look at the corporations that have outsourced your jobs away, cut pay and benefits to the bone, paid through the nose to rig elections and crush unions. Well then you're clearly a racist.

-If you bitch about drug tests for welfare recipients and then make a ton of 'lazy welfare people stealing from me' comments while not giving two fucks about corporate welfare. Then again, you are a racist. This time against blacks because 99 times out of 100 that what "welfare queens" is veiled to mean. And it's bullshit.

-If you think Science is a scam, that Global Warming is a hoax, that education is elitism and that teachers are overpaid greedy moochers. You're a total douchebag that deserves to be ridiculed for your dumb fucking ideas and your MORAN signs. Idiots.

-If you think Fox News, Drudge, Limbaugh, Beck or any of those other fucking paid liars is REAL NEWS while you deride Snopes and Fact Check sites as "liberal rags", you're too stupid to have a conversation with.

-If you think our debt is spiraling out of control because of Obama who has almost never had a Democratic Congress to pass him spending bills, has spent less than any President since Eisenhower and oh yeah you didn't say a FUCKING WORD when Rumsfeld LOST $2 TRILLION at the Pentagon (and never recovered it... aka THEY STOLE IT) or Bush took a HUGE surplus and spent us into record deficits... then you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

-If you think Benghazi is proof that our President wanted people to die when 4 people died there and you're OUTRAGED that he would not be aware of the intelligence of an impending attack when BUSH purposely IGNORED an 8/6/01 PDB that spelled out the fucking 9/11 attacks IN CRAYON and did NOTHING as 4,000 people died. Then sent thousands more to die in a war of CHOICE based on fake intelligence that they doctored up. FUCK OFF RIGHT NOW. Also, how many fucking embassy bombings occurred under Bush? Care to name that stat fuckhead?

-If you think our President is a Muslim who went to a Madrassa and wasn't born in America. Or that he's a socialist/marxist/communist who is going to take your guns and possibly try to rule you by force. Fuck you, you fucking lunatic.

-If you believe tax cuts for the rich make sense and that trickle down economics is fair because THEY EARNED IT and we're all just trying to steal from the rich with our "entitlements" (SS/Medicare) then you are a fucking sheep and don't deserve to have a job. You deserve to be outsourced by your precious corporate masters. Go fuck yourself.

-If you think Health Care for everyone is so fucking unconstitutional and terrible but endless war is a good thing. Please sign up for the war and let's get a friendly fire going. But if you get shot, FUCK YOU, no VA Hospital assclown.

There's more but yeah that's the gist of it. How you can stay friends with people that have zero empathy for others and are greedy fuckers who don't give a shit about anyone else - and YES if they vote that way, that's what they are supporting - is beyond me.

I want good people in my life. Rational, reasonable, thoughtful, intelligent people. Not dumb fucks.

Yes, it's abrasive but after 20 years of their bullshit. Fuck them.

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Response to MessiahRp (Reply #79)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:28 PM

80. I Love you

I completely agree with you. Your politics reflect your soul and compassion for humanity.

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Response to MessiahRp (Reply #79)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:35 PM

81. This!

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Response to MessiahRp (Reply #79)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 05:02 PM

96. Thank you for this!

I had been reading this thread for insight, because my aunt posted an offensive anti-obama bullshit post on my FB timeline this morning. Mind you I don't actually know this woman. She's my deceased mom's half sister whom I've only met once or twice in 53 years. I do know that she and her husband own a gun shop in WI, and are considered extremely religious by my uncle (her half brother). I haven't even been able to read the whole thing she posted because it upsets me so much. Anyway, I just un-friended her. I'm sick at my stomach.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:50 PM

82. I would have ended that friendship, too

To say that Sandy Hook was a hoax? That alone would make me avoid this guy like the plague.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:58 PM

84. Don't Second-Guess Yourself. You Did The Right Thing.


It's one thing to disagree with opinions you don't share, if those opinions have some grounding in the real world. Your former friend is harboring unhinged opinions which amount to desecrating those twenty kids' graves. Walk away from this person and don't worry about it.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:05 PM

85. I don't understand why you would even question your actions. This person is a dangerous idiot.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 03:26 PM

87. It's amazing to me what people consider "opinions"

You might as well say it's an opinion that 2 + 2 = 6. All those kids are dead or aren't dead. There's no opinion involved.

You did the right thing.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 03:29 PM

88. You did the right thing

Your ex-friend is an idiot!!! Good riddance to bad rubbish!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 03:50 PM

90. Would you continue a friendship with someone who denied the Holocaust? The Moon landing? These

people are sad and to be pitied, but I wouldn't continue a friendship...Backing away is the smart thing to do.

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Response to Rowdyboy (Reply #90)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 04:31 PM

93. Well maybe the moon landing...

Because that's so trivial now and harmless I can just roll my eyes. But this? It's just at the level of the holocaust deniers.

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Response to Rowdyboy (Reply #90)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:58 AM

111. The moon landing? Probably. I have some MIHOP friends, too.

I only know one Sandy Hook "Truther", but I'm not going to defriend him because, frankly, he has really good weed.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #111)


Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 03:57 PM

91. I have done the same thing

Life is to short to put up with fools and idiots!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 04:44 PM

95. I would dump that person too

Life is too short to waste with crackpots

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 05:15 PM

97. People like that are unbelievably selfish. Or paranoid.

 

They think that every world event is somehow tied directly to them or their beliefs.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 06:42 PM

98. Mr. Irishman

I gave up (for the second time in 20 years) on a person who made me feel worse being in his company. It wasn't politically based, although he's waaaay more right than I am. No, it was the realization that there's not much depth or breadth there. These folks can be enormous time-wasters because they're prone to painting themselves as victims, and as stated upthread, life is just too damn short. Parting ways with this guy was a healthy thing for you to do.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:02 PM

99. Honesty

That's what a friend deserves. I probably wouldn't "end a friendship" per se, But I would be honest with them. If they were spouting shit like that, I would feel it my duty to point out to them they were being a fool, and a dangerously idiotic one at that. I would expect them to do the same if I were to cross certain lines of common sense and decency. I might not agree. I might not even take it graciously. But I would want to know.

Which most likely means the end of a friendship. But If they are ok with knowing that I know they are being goat headed dumb about something, and the part of them which brought my interest and friendship initially is still there, even if obscured a bit by this new dumbassery, well, that's cool.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:26 PM

100. Facts and opinions are NOT the same thing

Fact is that sweet, innocent children are dead. You can have an opinion on why it happened or what should be done as a result. You don't get an opinion on the reality of it.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:28 PM

102. I think this crap speaks to who they ARE as a person. It goes beyond respecting opinions.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:31 PM

103. You had to be true to yourself.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:39 PM

104. Don't know anyone quite that nuts --but others that are in the vicinity

I just let them go with no comment. Off FB, off responses to Email etc., no meets for lunch or whatever.

They usually turn out to be so egocentric that they don't even notice. If they do notice and comment, then I reply that I sense we are in such different places in our lives and views that it is useless to bridge the gap at this time and to contact again if there is a change of heart on either side and am happy for past good times.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 08:03 PM

106. My thoughts

You know,OP I have the same problem as you and this includes my sister and a friend I have known for over fifty-five years. And there are others as well that I just cannot be friendly with.

My wife and some of my other friends tell me, "It's only politics. You should not lose a friend just over politics." And I have heard this line time and time again.

I try to make them understand. To say this "only politics" makes it seem like it's such a trivial thing but it's really not. It is something I, and I'm sure you and everyone else here, feels very deeply about. It's about our values and our principles and the things we consider to be very important in our lives and in our country. When people attack those ideals or ridicule them they are attacking something very fundamental and very important to us. It's not "just politics." It's a lot more. They are really attacking and ridiculing who we are.

I hate to let friends and relatives go but what kind of friendship is it where you can't really express your true feelings on something which is so important to you? What kind of friendship is it when you have to bite your tongue to avoid lashing out at someone who is promoting ideas that are hateful to every part of your being?

So I let them go. Just yesterday I joined a group of activists who share the same ideals as I do. I hope to meet some nice, friendly, intelligent people that I can feel comfortable with and who share the same outlook as me.

Maybe you should do the same. Know that it's not you and you not the only one in this situation. Just let go of the past and move on.

Hope this helps.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:49 AM

110. Respect what opinion? He wishes to pretend that something factual did not happen - that isn't an

"opinion", that is pretending. If he isn't a child, then the days of "let's pretend" are long over.

It is a denial of a fact that is inconvenient to his world view. It is a symptom of a deeper issue that he has with society, an anger so deep that he is willing to deny facts. There is no way to reach a person who is so deeply into their world view, once they start making things up like this. I don't care what issue it is, I don't bother when people get to this stage of their fanaticism about a certain issue, as you cannot debate or change the mind of someone who is willing to make things up like this. I just leave them to their zealotry and let their absence in my life give me a bigger space to put people who actually have opinions worth debating.

No, you aren't overreacting; actually, by calling a factual event a "hoax", I'd say he is over reacting. Sounds like something about the event so blew his mind that he has to deny its existence. That is quite an over reaction, simply over the top. I wouldn't feel badly at all about moving on past this "friendship". I don't associate with people who call the Holocaust a hoax, either, so I sure wouldn't feel I was gaining anything positive in my life by pursuing a friendship with someone who denies Sandy Hook. You should only be embarrassed if you chose to stay friends with him. Good move on your part, and no, no need to be hostile when you run into him. If I were in your shoes, I'd be doing the same, ie putting some serious distance between me and this guy, because that kind of denial/conspiracy thing isn't how I roll, either.

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Response to DeschutesRiver (Reply #110)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 07:53 PM

115. Great Advice & Analysis of the Problem

Last edited Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:14 AM - Edit history (1)

I let out a low wolf-whistle of appreciation at how well you summed up the problem, re:
.................................

" . . . that is pretending. If he isn't a child, then the days of 'let's pretend' are long over.

It is a denial of a fact that is inconvenient to his world view. It is a symptom of a deeper issue that he has with society, an anger so deep that he is willing to deny facts."
.................................

That's it! That's exactly it, and the phrase that pays: " . . . an anger so deep that he is willing to deny facts." (Except I might have substituted the word "hysteria" for "anger." No matter. I suspect it's a mixture of both.)

Like an ardent neo-nazi who denys that the Holocaust ever happened because it harshes their blood-&-soil, National Socialist fervor (hard to feel good about yourself when you realize that you're openly aligning with a regime/political philosophy that murdered infants, the elderly and the infirm--among others--with all the moral compunction most of us would exercise in stepping on a roach) or a global-climate-change denier refusing to engage honestly with ever-mounting evidence and verifiable, objective facts, this paranoid, logic-contorting, "it's all-gun-hating-Obama-and-his-cabal-of-crisis-actors'-fault" conspiracist is either actively evil or so cognitively impaired that for all practical purposes he's gone stark raving stonkers.

In either instance, not someone I would care--or trust--to have around me.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:49 PM

114. Not only no

But Hell, NO!

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