HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Politics 2014 (Forum) » I need some advice on how...

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:51 AM

I need some advice on how to deal with a person

The thread, I ran into a nutty today got me thinking. Well we all run into nutty people from time to time. I have one on Facebook. She has become more and more right wing (I shared a story about this awhile back, but sorry I don't have a link). Anyway some of you may have seen the bit being posted by the right from Hobby Lobby about their beef with the health care bill because there are provisions that allow women to have birth control.

My point is that it is wrong for a boss to tell his employees how and when they can get their medical coverage. If a guy being able to get Viagra while a woman get get birth control fair? I also said that I thought it was sexist and misogynistic that a boss have control over what a female employee does with her body on her own free time.

I have also pointed out that the guy has had his day in court (multiple times) and has lost. Now he is being told he will be fined. My point was if he gets fined, that's his choice for breaking the law in the first place.

Can anyone pitch me a stronger argument?

If you haven't seen it in its entirety I've copy/pasted it below without the picture of the store:

Letter from Hobby Lobby:

A Letter from Hobby Lobby Stores CEO
By David Green, the founder and CEO of Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc.

When my family and I started our company 40 years ago, we
were working out of a garage on a $600 bank loan, assembling miniature picture frames. Our first retail store wasn't much bigger than most people's living rooms, but we had faith that we would succeed if we lived and worked according to God's word. From there,Hobby Lobby has become one of the nation's largest arts and crafts retailers, with more than 500 locations in 41 states. Our children grew up into fine business leaders, and today we run Hobby Lobby together, as a family.

We're Christians, and we run our business on Christian principles. I've always said that the first two goals of our business are (1) to run our business in harmony with God's laws, and (2) to focus on people more than money. And that's what we've tried to do. We close early so our employees can see their families at night. We keep our stores closed on Sundays, one of the week's biggest shopping days, so that our workers and their families can enjoy a day of rest. We believe that it is by God's grace that Hobby Lobby has endured, and he has blessed us and our employees. We've not only added jobs in a weak economy, we've raised wages for the past four years in a row. Our full-time employees start at 80% above minimum wage.

But now, our government threatens to change all of that. A new government health care mandate says that our family business MUST provide what I believe are abortion-causing drugs as part of our health insurance. Being Christians, we don't pay for drugs that might cause abortions, which means that we don't cover emergency contraception, the morning-after pill or the week-after pill. We believe doing so might end a life after the moment of conception, something that is contrary to our most important beliefs. It goes against the Biblical principles on which we have run this company since day one. If we refuse to comply, we could face $1.3 million PER DAY in government fines.

Our government threatens to fine job creators in a bad economy. Our government threatens to fine a company that's raised wages four years running. Our government threatens to fine a family for running its business according to its beliefs. It's not right. I know people will say we ought to follow the rules; that it's the same for everybody. But that's not true. The government has exempted thousands of companies from this mandate, for reasons of convenience or cost. But it won't exempt them for reasons of religious belief.

So, Hobby Lobby � and my family � are forced to make a choice. With great reluctance, we filed a lawsuit today, represented by the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, asking a federal court to stop this mandate before it hurts our business. We don't like to go running into court, but we no longer have a choice. We believe people are more important than the bottom line and that honoring God is more important than turning a profit.

My family has lived the American dream. We want to continue growing our company and providing great jobs for thousands of employees, but the government is going to make that much more difficult. The government is forcing us to choose between following our faith and following the law. I say that's a choice no American � and no American business � should have to make.
The government cannot force you to follow laws that go against your fundamental religious belief. They have exempted thousands of companies but will not except Christian organizations including the Catholic church.

Since you will not see this covered in any of the liberal media, pass this on to all your contacts.
Sincerely,
David Green, CEO and Founder of Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc.

16 replies, 2207 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread

Response to davidpdx (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:03 AM

1. If every one of the married women in that family don't have 20 kids

then they're practicing birth control.

If you want to see people who don't have any access, ever, to birth control go to poor countries where poor women are perpetually pregnant and have many children, and who have many who die before their first birthday.

This 'Christian' crap coming from men who have small families is just that. Crap.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidpdx (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:03 AM

2. Mere words will not do the job, his mind's made up, he's "honoring God". nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidpdx (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:15 AM

3. Don't waste your time; there's nothing you can say

that can change the mind of a wingnut.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidpdx (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:21 AM

4. The real reason for the birth control mandate

And why contraception is now considered preventive care with no co-pay, similar to coverage of mammograms, etc.:
OBGYNs are now recommending that a woman wait 2 full years between pregnancies for the optimal outcome for mother and baby. Since celibacy during marriage is a bit unrealistic for most, this recommendation is best achieved with contraception.
Therefore anyone opposed to contraception coverage must be in favor of maternal/child complications and death. How very pro-life of them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Freddie (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:44 AM

8. this

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidpdx (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:22 AM

5. Nothing.

Eventually, Hobby Lobby will comply or Hobby Lobby will go broke under the fines or Hobby Lobby will shut their doors. In either of the last two cases, Hobby Lobby will be sold to pay creditors and any new buyer...will not be as stupid.

Never argue when you've already won.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidpdx (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:28 AM

6. Unfriend is one option, or you can limit what you see from them on the newsfeed

Here is the snopes link to the letter, the letter was written in September and it sounds like it isn't doing well in their court challenges.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/hobbylobby.asp

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidpdx (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:38 AM

7. Romans 13 1-7?

 

ĽEnglish Standard Version
Romans 13:1Ė7
Submission to the Authorities
13 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For qthere is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you rwill receive his approval, 4 for she is Godís servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, tan avenger who carries out Godís wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid Godís wrath but also ufor the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 vPay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to reteachinwi (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:47 AM

9. Is this why some religious people I know don't vote?

They just submit to authority?

Another reason I am not religious.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidpdx (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:59 AM

10. What if the business is run by Jehovah's?

Should they deny blood transfusions for their employees? What if the company is run by faith healers? Should they deny all medical treatment for their employees?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidpdx (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:02 AM

11. Delete her and live a happy life. N/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidpdx (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:04 AM

12. What I told my RW cousin

Providing health care that covers birth control does not force a person to use birth control. If you don't provide the health care how is that preventing employees from using the money he paid them to buy birth control?

Would this friend of yours support this guy if he included in a job interview a mandate forbidding employees from using birth control?

Hobby Lobby will be providing birth control one way or another either through their health care coverage or through the salaries it pays its employees.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidpdx (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:33 AM

13. Business should not be in the business of deciding the faith based morals of their employees.

The freedom of religion stops the moment it transgresses the freedom of choice of others.

Would it be acceptable in this day and age for a business, that is owned by "faith based healers"... you know, the ones that will let their own children die because the only cure to them is prayer, to enforce their own beliefs on their employees? Can you imagine a company that saves money based on the directive that the company health care plan is a prayer circle??? All because the owners doesn't believe in modern medicine?

There is no directive that the employees HAVE to use contraception, just that those who chose to for whatever reasons they have (ranging from personal choice, to real and severe health reasons) have that option available under their plans. If the owners, or managers, or even the employees don't believe in it, the answer is simple.. they don't have to utilize that part of their plans. However, it is a direct and audacious violation of their employees rights to impose their own beliefs onto their employees by denying the employees the same choice to or not to use. Really, it's like any other part of insurance coverage, like the annual physical.. it's not a mandate, but it needs to be available.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidpdx (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:57 AM

14. David Green pays the entire healthcare insurance for all his employees? Hobby Lobby is dead to me!!

I think he's just another MAN poking his nose into American womans personal business and personal healthcare choices.

I suppose he made his wife have 20 children?? David Green you better have 20 children and 200 grandchildren or you're just another cheap ass 'bussiness owner' liar republican.

David Green is another fool Obama-hater, who can NOT grasp the concept how much healthier a population is with access to birth control.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidpdx (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:58 AM

15. ask her how many children she has had? one a year if she really did not use birth control. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidpdx (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:22 PM

16. Hobby Lobby - Filled With Junk From China Where

the one baby rule was the law of the land...for decades!!!!

China, that communist country.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread