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Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:29 AM

In response to a, now locked, thread regarding ...

Last edited Sun Dec 30, 2012, 09:43 AM - Edit history (1)

DUers continued promotion of a false narrative reegarding the Chained CPI ... a poster posted the following from the Progressive icon, Senator Bernie Sanders .

I have mad respect for Senator Sanders; but I ask DUers read this iece, then re-read it ... is the esteemed Senator discussing anything that was proposed by President Obama? Has he mentioned anywhere in his statement that the rumored deal would exempt the very groups that are the basis of his objection? If he doesn't mention that art, he is not talking about what the proposed deal was!

STATEMENT BY SENATOR BERNARD SANDERS ON THE CHAINED-CPI

December 19, 2012

Let me begin by thanking the American Legion; the Veterans of Foreign Wars; the Disabled American Veterans; the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America; the Paralyzed Veterans of America; the Blinded Veterans Association; and the many other veterans’ organizations who are here this morning and who have spoken out on this issue. Some of the full statements from the veterans’ organizations are available here today.

We are here today to tell the White House and the leadership in Congress: do not balance the budget on the backs of disabled veterans who have lost their arms, legs, and eyesight defending our country.

Do not balance the budget on the backs of the men and women who have already sacrificed for us in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Do not balance the budget on the backs of the wives, husbands, and children of those who have made the ultimate sacrifice.

And, do not balance the budget on the backs of the men and women who served our country in World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War, and other conflicts by cutting Social Security benefits.

Do not adopt the so-called chained-CPI.

My Republican friends and some Democrats have said that lowering Cost-Of-Living Adjustments (COLAs) through the adoption of a chained-CPI would be a “minor tweak” in benefits.

But, let’s be clear: for millions of disabled veterans and seniors living on fixed incomes, the chained CPI is not a minor tweak. It is a significant benefit cut that will make it harder for permanently disabled veterans and the elderly to feed their families, heat their homes, pay for their prescription drugs, and make ends meet. This misguided proposal must be vigorously opposed.

Supporters of the chained-CPI want the American people to believe that the COLAs that disabled veterans, senior citizens, and the surviving spouses and children who have lost loved ones in combat are too generous.

That is simply not true. In two out of the last three years, disabled veterans and senior citizens did not receive any COLA. And, next year’s COLA of 1.7% is one of the lowest ever. Lowering COLAs even further through the adoption of a chained-CPI would be an absolute disaster.

This nation has made a commitment to our military and our veterans: if you get permanently disabled defending this country, if you get seriously wounded in battle, we will always be there for you. The Veterans Administration will provide you with the disability compensation benefits you need to live in dignity and those benefits will keep pace with inflation.

Today, more than 3.2 million disabled veterans receive disability compensation benefits from the Veterans Administration.

Under the chained CPI, a disabled veteran who started receiving VA disability benefits at age 30 would have their benefits cut by more than $1,400 at age 45; $2,300 at age 55; and $3,200 at age 65.

I challenge anyone who supports a chained-CPI, to go to Walter Reed. Visit with the men and women who have lost their legs, lost their arms, lost their eyesight as a result of their service in Afghanistan or Iraq. We made a promise to these veterans. Cutting their COLA’s would be reneging on those promises and we cannot let that happen.

We have also made a commitment to the surviving spouses and children who have lost a loved one in battle by providing them with Dependency Indemnity Compensation benefits that average less than $17,000 a year.

Like many of my colleagues in the Senate, I have attended the funerals of brave soldiers killed in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

I remember telling their grieving spouses and young children that our country would never forget their sacrifice and loss. It would be absolutely immoral to cut the very modest benefits they receive by adopting a chained-CPI.

Further, we have made a promise to every American: Social Security will be there for you in your old age, or if you become disabled. And, those benefits will also keep up with inflation.

Today, over 9 million veterans receive Social Security benefits; and more than 770,000 veterans receive Social Security disability benefits. We’re talking about those who served in World War II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War and many others.

Under the chained CPI, average seniors who retire at age 65 would see their Social Security benefits cut by about $650 a year when they reach 75 and more than $1,000 a year once they turn 85.

We simply cannot renege on the promises we have made to our nation’s veterans by cutting the very modest benefits that they have earned. That’s exactly what the chained-CPI would do and that is exactly why it does not belong in deficit reduction.

And, let me be very clear: the American people strongly support the position we are advocating for today, including the AARP, the AFL-CIO, the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare and many other groups representing senior citizens, working families, and the disabled.

In poll after poll, including one that appeared just yesterday in the Washington Post the American people have been extremely clear: do not cut Social Security, do not cut Medicare, do not cut Medicaid benefits, and do not lower COLAs.

It’s time that Congress and the White House listened to the people who have put their lives on the line defending this country and to the American people.


I would hope DUers would be the last group to promote false narratives.

23 replies, 1905 views

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Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply In response to a, now locked, thread regarding ... (Original post)
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 OP
elleng Dec 2012 #1
Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #9
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #13
pnwmom Dec 2012 #2
newfie11 Dec 2012 #7
Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #11
pnwmom Dec 2012 #18
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #14
Hekate Dec 2012 #3
Hekate Dec 2012 #4
SunSeeker Dec 2012 #5
jtuck004 Dec 2012 #6
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #15
jtuck004 Dec 2012 #22
Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #8
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #16
pnwmom Dec 2012 #19
Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #10
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #17
pnwmom Dec 2012 #20
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #23
Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #12
Sunlei Dec 2012 #21

Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 02:16 AM

1. I agree.

Some have discussed the 'exemptions' as too small/apply to too few, etc.

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Response to elleng (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 07:43 AM

9. So you have a quote from Obama detailing these alleged 'exemptions' that you claim make cutting

benefits a good thing, right? You have actual specifics? If not, are you just going off of rumors and assumptions or what? You claim some are discussing the details. I have not heard any details at all. None. Where can I find the official Obama statement?

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 09:49 AM

13. I have not said ...

that the details of the exemptions are out there; but then again, I have the same knowledge of the details of the Chained CPI deal as everyone critical of the deal ... Not much; only that which was leaked.
















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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 02:30 AM

2. I wondered the same thing when I read his post.

Why is no one discussing the particular proposal Obama is thought to be making, rather than a chained CPI without any protection for vulnerable groups?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 05:18 AM

7. What is the proposal Obama is thought to be making

I have heard this but no information on what it is.

I think that's why people are very concerned.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 08:10 AM

11. How do you propose people discuss that which 'he is thought to be making'? By reading his mind?

You imply that these details are available, why are they not discussed, you ask. Why not provide a link to those specifics? The OP failed to do so.
Or you could simply offer your own metrics and standards as to which of the elderly and sick and poor are in your eyes suited for a benefit cut.
Or you could just stammer in wonder that no one is discussing that which is unknown.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:53 PM

18. Why is that worse than discussing a proposal he isn't making?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:00 AM

14. My thoughts on that question ...

First, it really isn't about the poor, the elderly, the disabled or veterans; rather its about THEIR not being a part of the exempted class ... so someone is getting something that they will not, despite their ability to afford to do so ... and despite their support for increasing taxes on the wealthy, because "they can afford it."

Or, maybe because they've been arguing a false narrative for weeks, they just can't back off ... that would display weakness.

Or, maybe because they don't care that they've been promoting a false narrative and are here just to kick sh!t over.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 03:04 AM

3. KnR

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 03:11 AM

4. Thanks for bringing this piece up

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 04:05 AM

5. K&R

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 04:26 AM

6. from Carney's statement - "he would make sure that the most vulnerable were exempted out from this"



Is that what you are talking about?

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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:03 AM

15. Yes ...

Now let me pre-emptively argue ... no "most vulnerable" is not defined; but then again, neither has the rumored deal been defined.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 02:50 PM

22. Ok, thank you. n/t

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 07:40 AM

8. Where is the quote from the President detailing these 'exemptions' you speak of?

I have not heard him say a thing about it. Not one thing. And the details are important, because most Americans are of the opinion that all of our elders are deserving of protection from cuts to the benefits they paid for.
So where is the Obama quote with all these details? Without one, you seem to be asking folks to make shit up and call that the truth.
Also, where is the link to the thread you are complaining about here? Without specifics, again this means nothing at all.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:08 AM

16. Where is the quote from President Obama ...

detailing ANYTHING, or even saying the words "Chained CPI", in reference to the rumored deal?

If the determinor of legitimacy is a quote from President Obama on what the deal included ... well ... we would have nothing to talk about; because, amazingly, people tend to be pretty tight lipped when it comes to announce negotiation proposals.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:56 PM

19. Exactly. It's fine with some people to get up in arms about rumors -- such as changes in the CPI--

as long as they make Obama look bad. But if the same rumors contain elements that might offset the damage, well, those are "just rumors."

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 07:56 AM

10. In honor of the President's deeply held Christian faith, I offer these words from Jebus:

The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I invite the OP and others who support cutting Social Security benefits to clearly outline for us which of the elderly and sick they feel are not 'the least among us'. I'd also like some details as to the metrics to be used to determine when this 'deeply held faith' applies and when it does not.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:11 AM

17. You mean ...

those elderly and sick that are rumored to have been exempted? What was the question again?

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:59 PM

20. Where does the OP support cutting benefits for the elderly and sick?

Where does the OP support cutting Social Security benefits at all?

All the OP does is object to Sanders' mischaracterization of the CPI changes that are supposedly on the table.

Quoting from the OP:

"Has he mentioned anywhere in his statement that the rumored deal would exempt the very groups that are the basis of his objection?"

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 04:50 PM

23. I didn't ...

but there appears to be a lot of noise that makes/allows some to hear what they want to hear (and not hear) whatever they care to.

I'm done!

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 08:33 AM

12. Looking for 'President quote Social Security Inflation' I found Richard M Nixon saying this:

"I propose that the Congress make certain once and for all that the retired, the disabled and the dependent never again bear the brunt of inflation. The way to prevent future unfairness is to attach the benefit schedule to the cost of living.
This will instill new security in Social Security. This will provide peace of mind to those concerned with their retirement years, and to their dependents.
By acting to raise benefits now to meet the rise in the cost of living, we keep faith with today's recipients. By acting to make future benefit raises automatic with rises in the cost of living, we remove questions about future years; we do much to remove this system from biennial politics; and we make fair treatment of beneficiaries a matter of certainty rather than a matter of hope."

Nixon's entire Statement can be read here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=nixon+quote+%27social+security+inflation%27&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a

"I have today signed . . . constitutes a major breakthrough for older Americans, for it says at last that inflation-proof Social Security benefits are theirs as a matter of right...."
-- Richard M. Nixon, July 1, 1972
http://www.thebattleforsocialsecurity.com/pres_quotes.php
---------------------------------------
This is Nixon, Tricky fucking Dick, saying inflation proof Social Security benefits are a right. A right.
Obama is to the right of Nixon on this, if what the OP says about Obama supporting cuts and a chained CPI is true.....

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:09 PM

21. Everyone in the deep valleys of USA pls move aside, I'm shoving 'cons off THEIR cliffs above you!

BS mountian is raining republicons

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