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Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:24 AM

'Smart gun' technology could have stopped Adam Lanza

What do you think? I realize there is no silver bullet. Read the article here.

http://current.com/groups/news-blog/93994810_smart-gun-technology-could-have-stopped-adam-lanza.htm]


21 replies, 2239 views

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply 'Smart gun' technology could have stopped Adam Lanza (Original post)
xxxsdesdexxx Dec 2012 OP
alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #1
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #3
alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #6
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #10
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #2
BainsBane Dec 2012 #4
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #11
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #16
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #18
BainsBane Dec 2012 #20
jimmy the one Dec 2012 #5
Tutonic Dec 2012 #7
Sunlei Dec 2012 #8
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #9
Sunlei Dec 2012 #12
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #13
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #15
Sunlei Dec 2012 #17
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #14
jimmy the one Dec 2012 #19
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #21

Response to xxxsdesdexxx (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:44 AM

1. Smart gun technology

Gun registration
Barrel "fingerprinting"
Firearm Identification numbers
FIN bar codes
RFID embeds
"Big Data" gun registration and identity databases

The science is there or there to be developed for real, actual responsible and accountable gun ownership (provided we also ban a shitload of gun and ammo types).

Why the gun owners fight it is a mystery.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 03:10 AM

3. That is not what is normally refereed to as "smart gun technology"

What is would be technology to limit who can shoot the gun, normally being biometric or some form of RF. It is not even close to being ready for use at this time.

Your list has none of that except RFID which cannot do what is wanted (unique, unalterable identification of the firearm) for obvious reasons.

Barrel fingerprinting (the CSI thing) is almost black magic. Its starting to be effectively disputed in courts. Surprises the hell out of me, but the people doing it are winning.

The states with exemplar databases have shown little to no success out of them and Canada is taking down their long gun registry.

What kind of ammo would you ban?



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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:00 AM

6. I know that...I was making a list of possibilities

I'm not answering any questions from you because I am no longer having discussions with gun proponents.

Have a good one.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:04 PM

10. At least answer the question about what kind of ammo you want banned.

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Response to xxxsdesdexxx (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:46 AM

2. Five year olds will figure it out.

Hell, I need a kid to reset my digital watch or fix my computer.

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Response to xxxsdesdexxx (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 03:17 AM

4. Insulated gloves

The guy planned the attack in great detail. You don't think he could have figured out how to get around the censors. Besides, he might have been entirely calm at the time.

Still, it might be a good idea, but it doesn't substitute for better gun control.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:42 PM

11. It is not a viable approach for any number of technical reasons

The so called smart tech has been pushed for some time but still fails. If firearms were principally electronic (like phasers) and we all wore transponders maybe...

A good rule of thumb would be if its good enough for the cops to carry it, then it will be good enough for the rest of us.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:57 PM

16. We're virtually at the point where we do wear transponders today.

We call them cell phones.

The newest ones have NFC technology which could be useful for this purpose.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #16)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:15 PM

18. Ever leave you cell phone at home or have a Bluetooth device loose it pairing?

Do you have your cell phone with you in the middle of the night?
How many people don't have cell phones, including those who are afraid of EMI?
What about those of us who live outside cellphone coverage?

I like the police use as a test case since it would mean that the tech is robust and mature. I don't think we are there yet, but when it is, I would support it.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 04:09 PM

20. Also

Imagine someone in their home when an intruder enters. They aren't going to be calm. The heart will race, etc. Conversely, a psychopath would be completely calm. Doesn't strike me as reliable.

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Response to xxxsdesdexxx (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:18 AM

5. trigger locks & gunsafes work too

link: If smart technology had been in place, the weapons likely would have been useless to Adam Lanza.

In this case yes, since lanza could'nt've readily gotten guns from other sources, except by stealing them.
But there are other 'part smart' ways lanza could've been prevented, trigger locks & gunsafes. Gun cabinets a deterrent but glass doors break & if metal they're pryable.
.. had his mother put trigger locks on her guns & well-hid her keys, lanza could'nt've used them any more than had they smart gun technology. Unless he also had welding knowledge perhaps & could cut the locks off, defeatable true, tho getting thru a gunsafe is more difficult, certainly not within the realm of too many 20 yr olds.

I wonder if the smart gun tech, could lanza have pressed his dead mothers hand onto the gun & 'activated' it so it was usable somehow, or would the gun be smart enough to deactivate immediately when he tried to shift his hand onto it. It can't be so supersensitive that a hand shift by the true owner would disable it, not too many would want it.

We have child access prevention laws (C.A.P.) in many states, but not all (even rabid pro gun texas has one!). Tho they vary by state, CAP laws mandate that homes with young or teen children keep their guns properly stored, trigger locked or in gunsafe or guncabinet, with ammo kept separate from guns, & if a child gets ahold of a gun the parents are liable, both for damage & damage to their own homes & kids.
In most case I'm fairly sure, the threat of legal action is more a scare tactic, since imagine, a child shoots her brother & the parents devastated, it's hard to prosecute them since they're 'suffered so much already, how can you be so cruel'.
Gun lobby argues that there are already 'negligence laws' on the books, which is true but they tend to be so weak & they are easily plea bargained or negotiated out or dismissed as per above 'how can you be so cruel'.

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Response to xxxsdesdexxx (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 09:56 AM

7. Love David Schuster but this article made me laugh

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Response to xxxsdesdexxx (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 10:45 AM

8. For many years we have used a simple bar code reader to track every move of race horses in training.

Their location, how fast and the distance in work outs. I'm pretty sure similar bar code readers catch shop lifters at the door and of course used at cash registers.

Can't understand why each piece of ammo doesn't have a bar code built into the inside somehow. This technology is not expensive at all.

Also read recently shoplifting of ammo is a huge problem at Walmarts. plus just think about it, assault weapons AND ammo both sold in Walmarts. Just some random employee to over power.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:03 PM

9. The retail packages already are

Possible taggants might work, but that would prevent nothing, just be good for afterwards

Door scanners are RFID these days, other tech previously. So easy to game it isn't even sporting

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:05 PM

12. I meant a bar code built into each bullet. readers could be installed at distance points.

Schools could keep the same door security systems they have in place. In addition add bar code readers at far entry points to the school property, in the parking lots and at the door.

Some kind of earlier warning bullets have entered the property other than the sound of gunshots.

Anyway the President was just on live and said, VP Biden (who worked on the original bill that included the assault weapon ban law that we lost in 2004) will work on a new proposal and have it ready in a month. I've emailed him with my suggestion.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:21 PM

13. Not technically possible.

Explosives have aromatics added to them to aid in detection, but bullets are sealed containers.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:55 PM

15. RFID would be a better technology for this purpose.

I'm talking about a tiny microchip with a few bytes of memory that would store a serial number, with a radio transceiver powered by received radio energy from an RFID tag reader.

I used to work on this technology for a living, hence my username here.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:13 PM

17. great idea, thanks. We need some kind of earlier warning technology.

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Response to xxxsdesdexxx (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:47 PM

14. I can see RFID/NFC technology used this way.

Have the gun's owner carry an RFID tag (a credit-card-sized card in the wallet, or in a ring), or an NFC-capable smartphone, or even be chipped with an implantable RFID tag (hard to steal or lose those), and have the gun rigged with a reader that unlocks the trigger when it detects the owner's tag.

The trick would be making it five-nines reliable (99.999% reliable - it works 99,999 times out of 100,000) to address the critiques about reliability, but I'm confident this can be done.

With more engineering, you could even embed RFID tags into bullets and cartridge casings. The smallest RFID tags made are about the size of a grain of salt, and they could be engineered to survive being fired through a gun when deeply embedded in a bullet. I would suggest that this would be more feasible than chemical taggants in gunpowder.

I would also suggest starting to build gun cameras into future firearms - every time the gun fires, the camera takes a picture. Such a device would be about the size of a thimble.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #14)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 03:09 PM

19. taggants

Progressive: Possible taggants might work, but that would prevent nothing, just be good for afterwards
backscatter: I would suggest that this would be more feasible than chemical taggants in gunpowder.

Taggants in gunpowder would help in identifying lot of manufacture, point of origin, but alas, already been tried & couldn't get by the nra.
BATF (or other agcy) wanted to add microscopic taggants to explosives 10 or 20 years back, as anti terrorism move, so as to help id any terrorist bomb attack, taggants being microscopic plastic or polyeth etc, materials which could be traced. Who could disagree with this fine idea? NRA that's who.
NRA said no because the taggants would increase the chance of a misfire of the gunpowder (which could possibly be in a 'lot' of explosive, put into bullets as well); the increased chance of misfire? from maybe 3 in a million up to 5 in a million with taggants (slt), such a minute increase in the chance of misfire had the nra frantic that some good guy might misfire, not conceding that the bad guys misfire too.
.. altho you do mention 'chemical' taggants, this might be something I've not heard of which don't affect firing rate. I wouldn't've called the taggants I refer to as chemical, but material. Seems any non explosive added to an explosive would increase the chance of a misfire, due the obvious reduction in explosive material, however so slight.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #14)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:35 PM

21. Call me when the cops agree to carry what you prospose

How well does a RFID chip works enclosed in multiple layers of conductive metal?

Taggants indeed are only useful after the fact. Aromatics maybe helpful for new ammo

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