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BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 01:56 AM Dec 2016

What I have learned about the election on DU

That the millions of people upset about the results of the GE don't matter. Their grief pales in the comparison to the far more important outrage of Bernie supporters who continue to be angry about the primary, months after the fact. If any Clinton voter articulates frustration or pain, they got what they deserved. If only they had voted for Bernie and compelled others to vote for Bernie, Trump would not be the president elect.

Women who hoped to see someone like themselves rise to the highest office in the land and take the election results as emblematic of the double standards they face in their own lives, in which no amount of hard word and competence will ever make them equal to the least qualified man, simply don't matter. Sexism had nothing to do with the election. The problem was that the Democrats ran a "corporate whore" (despite the fact no one can point how how her policies were compromised or her practices departed from previous presidents of the party as whole), a congenital liar (fact checkers showing her to be the most honest candidate in either party during the entire election are rigged.) What matters is some just "feel" she is dishonest because she reminds them of a female boss, ex-wife or mother. We live in a post-fact world where feelings are all that matter.

The people terrified due to the rise of hate crimes unleashed by a presidential candidate who elevated White Supremacy to the Oval Office are overreacting. Racism had nothing to do with the election. It's all in their heads. Those swastikas are really denunciations of TPP and corporate Democrats. When men pull the hijabs off women and beat them, while hurling Muslims slurs, that has nothing to do with racism. It's instead a denunciation of Democrat economic policies. The rise in hate crimes has absolutely nothing to do with the GE because Trump didn't run as a racist and his supporters didn't vote out of racism. Comments to Jews about how they should be burned in ovens aren't really antisemitic; they are rather commentary on the international banking cabal.

If our candidate can't win despite progressives eagerly repeating talking points fed to them by the GOP, she had no business running in the first place. She is weak, and the the nomination should be open and hard hitting, as long as that hitting goes one entirely way. Any criticism of a candidate favored by a certain minority is unacceptable. So much so that he isn't responsible for his own loss by 3.8 million votes. The DNC and the media rigged the election and kept Bernie from assuming his birthright. Hillary Clinton was also responsible since she shouldn't have run for the nomination in the first place and instead stood back and allowed Bernie to claim it uncontested. Hard hitting primaries only hold for certain candidates but not the Chosen One.

Although Clinton won the popular vote by 2.5 million out of 125 million votes, her message was bad, and she was hopelessly flawed. Bernie lost the primary by 3.8 million out of 27.8 million votes, there was nothing wrong with his message and he is perfection itself. He only lost because the DNC "rigged" the primary and the Media instituted a blackout in which they only allowed him on three Sunday news shows each week. The fact the majority of Democrats, including the base of women and people of color, didn't support him was all due to DNC manipulation and the fact they are the establishment, stockholm syndrome sufferers, and too stupid to know they were manipulated to vote against the One True President. Elderly and disabled people participated in caucuses by absentee ballot, and they should be kept from doing so because they don't know how to vote right. Then there is the fact that those Democrats votes simply matter less than the votes of third party and GOP white male voters. Democratic voters simply matter less.

The loss of the GE doesn't matter. The rise of fascism doesn't matter. All that matters is Bernie was denied his right to be the Democratic nominee by the PTB and their manipulation of the poorest and most marginalized voters in the country. If only the primary had been longer, even more expensive, and the media had done it's job by running Bernie's stump speech 24/7, he would have won. That his support dropped off rather than increased by the end of the primary is not evidence that additional exposure did not help his electoral chances.

What I have learned is that some candidates deserved to be trashed during the primary, during the GE, and even after they have left political life, whereas another candidate should under no circumstances be criticized in anyway. The fact is some people are superior to others, and if you are among the subaltern who voted for Clinton in the primary and GE, you are what is wrong with America. That you even imagine your vote or your voice should matter is emblematic of the power of the establishment. What matters is not policy or competence, but Bernie. Anyone associated with Bernie, who posters here assume would have voted for Bernie (because they voted GOP in the GE) are superior to the people who reliably vote Democrat, who turn up to staff phone banks and spend countless hours every election going door to door for Democratic candidates. Those of us committed to the party and its voters are the problem.

The take away from the election: All people are not created equal. Bernie and his supporters are and always will be superior, and they deserve to control the votes of the entire Democratic voting public who, is too inferior to know how to vote properly in the first place.





109 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What I have learned about the election on DU (Original Post) BainsBane Dec 2016 OP
much is true MFM008 Dec 2016 #1
Oh yeah, I was just tried to be taught that.. Cha Dec 2016 #2
DU rec...nt SidDithers Dec 2016 #3
I learned that Elitism was just as bad as racism today. SaschaHM Dec 2016 #4
Let me guess? BainsBane Dec 2016 #6
More Phony Baloney.. "Elitism" seems to be their new buzzword to Cha Dec 2016 #8
Yeah, because a billionaire president with a cabinet of five billionaires BainsBane Dec 2016 #46
Right! It's Hillary and her 65 Million Voters.. forget about the drumpf meister... Cha Dec 2016 #48
Good morning Cha. stonecutter357 Dec 2016 #53
Good Mornin', stonecutter! Cha Dec 2016 #54
I love this meme Gothmog Dec 2016 #90
Yeah, that one kind of blew my mind. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #60
Is there a productive purpose behind this post? KPN Dec 2016 #5
Going for that Guiness book thing, maybe HassleCat Dec 2016 #11
Same purpose as your post. n/t pnwmom Dec 2016 #19
Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #24
Well, BlueProgressive, if you really believe that about Hillary, you have swallowed the RW lies.... Hekate Dec 2016 #26
Forcing? I dont recall anyone forcing me to vote for her but welcome to the DU cstanleytech Dec 2016 #30
yes ! stonecutter357 Dec 2016 #52
Yes, there is a very valid purpose being served by this thread and the OP Gothmog Dec 2016 #91
I learned that... JSup Dec 2016 #7
I knew awhile back.... quickesst Dec 2016 #9
Dayum I love you Bains. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #10
I love this and bookmarked it for when I get that Opposite World feeling. betsuni Dec 2016 #12
Ha! sheshe2 Dec 2016 #13
*screams* betsuni Dec 2016 #15
Yup. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #16
Yup, lots of new names, but familiar talking points. nt SunSeeker Dec 2016 #20
Correct my dear........................ sheshe2 Dec 2016 #22
Oh yeah Hekate Dec 2016 #28
Pre-election, many Tweets were chatbots in action. Aimee in OKC Dec 2016 #89
K&R! DemonGoddess Dec 2016 #14
K & R SunSeeker Dec 2016 #17
Maybe you should take it up with rpannier Dec 2016 #18
These are the same people who have voted for Republicans for decades. pnwmom Dec 2016 #21
According to many articlesd I've seen rpannier Dec 2016 #23
The majority of college educated whites voted for Romney and McCain. pnwmom Dec 2016 #27
And I agree totally with rpannier Dec 2016 #38
There is a lot of back and forth going on. pnwmom Dec 2016 #39
Agreed rpannier Dec 2016 #42
+ 100 mahina Dec 2016 #44
Yep, but it's so much easier to Bernie-bash (or Hillary-bash) bekkilyn Dec 2016 #58
Just a quick addition rpannier Dec 2016 #40
BB, you continue to articulate our anger, our grief, and our truth. Thank you for this. Hekate Dec 2016 #25
I've actually been around since Howard Dean ran and I volunteered for his campaign NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #31
Which is why I check people's sign-up dates when they say something really off the wall ... Hekate Dec 2016 #35
I loved Dean and was bitterly disappointed when he lost... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #49
Strangely, Dianne Sawyer confessed that, on air. bigmonkey Dec 2016 #86
I learned that the millions of white people who voted for Trump are racists automatically NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #29
"I am not sure I can vote Democratic next time around." Martin Eden Dec 2016 #88
These OPs should start being posted in a brand new specialized Support Group to the left. TheBlackAdder Dec 2016 #32
I learned that Trumps coalition is stronger than ours world wide wally Dec 2016 #33
Something the "blame Hillary 100 percent" crowd tends to forget. Trump had a lot of help. Hekate Dec 2016 #36
And she STILL got more votes than he did EffieBlack Dec 2016 #100
Some of the onus for Bernie losing is on Bernie though as he and he alone was the one that made the cstanleytech Dec 2016 #34
I learned that people see and "learn" what they want to see. I propose that the JCanete Dec 2016 #37
I've learned that some people are obsessed with a single topic. progressoid Dec 2016 #41
What about the people who supported Bernie in the primary but supported Hillary in the general, who mahina Dec 2016 #43
They are good Democrats BainsBane Dec 2016 #45
You handled that very nicely, BB. brer cat Dec 2016 #47
Bookmarking! Thanks! Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #50
K&R! stonecutter357 Dec 2016 #51
I supported Bernie and wanted him as the nominee but I had no problem transitioning. MadamPresident Dec 2016 #55
Thank you! BainsBane Dec 2016 #56
I wonder how many of the busters didnt vote, or wouldnt have voted otherwise, dionysus Dec 2016 #66
I am stealing Adolph Sniffler. rzemanfl Dec 2016 #76
LOL i saw it on discussionist, i think.... use it as you wish... dionysus Dec 2016 #96
I also supported Bernie and wanted him as the nominee, but transitioned... Raster Dec 2016 #79
ditto CountAllVotes Dec 2016 #102
The primary wars never ended. They were just suppressed. aikoaiko Dec 2016 #57
The primary ended BainsBane Dec 2016 #64
K&R Gothmog Dec 2016 #59
Mic drop! mcar Dec 2016 #61
I see more ppl desperately blaming bernie and supporters instead of dionysus Dec 2016 #62
I think it would be hard to claim some of those factors didn't play a role in the BainsBane Dec 2016 #63
DUers have rehashed and refought primaries since kerry/dean, sadly dionysus Dec 2016 #67
That's unfortunate BainsBane Dec 2016 #70
Agreed dionysus Dec 2016 #95
Me, too. As a Bernie supporter who shifted to HRC, no problem... I have to say the vitriol zonkers Dec 2016 #108
He's more of a dem (fdr era) than a lot of the "official" 3rd way dems out there dionysus Dec 2016 #109
I learned that the party may not want to learn from what happened NRQ891 Dec 2016 #65
You make a number of assumptions BainsBane Dec 2016 #68
Bravo!!! lunamagica Dec 2016 #69
What we've learned: people around here love them some circular firing squads Spider Jerusalem Dec 2016 #71
Many real Democrats do get angry Progressive dog Dec 2016 #72
And who exactly are the real vs unreal Democrats? BainsBane Dec 2016 #80
The real democrats are those who put democracy Progressive dog Dec 2016 #97
Spot on post. n/t duffyduff Dec 2016 #73
I've learned that Bernie is responsible for so many bad things reflection Dec 2016 #74
Popping in briefly just to applaud this post! BooScout Dec 2016 #75
I stopped reading the OP after the first two senteneces Martin Eden Dec 2016 #77
I stopped reading yours too Cary Dec 2016 #78
Too bad; you missed a spot-on and much deserved reprimand Martin Eden Dec 2016 #81
Who made you the judge? Cary Dec 2016 #82
Who made BainsBane the judge? Martin Eden Dec 2016 #83
You're the one who found her guilty, Cary Dec 2016 #85
Sounds an awful lot like you're reprimanding me Martin Eden Dec 2016 #87
Too bad Gothmog Dec 2016 #92
I hear ye... can't stand the haters myself Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #84
Make like Elsa budkin Dec 2016 #93
Clinton now has more than 2.6 million votes more than trump Gothmog Dec 2016 #94
K&R Jamaal510 Dec 2016 #98
Perfect! EffieBlack Dec 2016 #99
"who continue to be angry about the primary, months after the fact." - pot, kettle, black. n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #101
no, the primaries were lost ages before bernie actually gave up. the election was lost a month ago La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #103
With such a historic opportunity, to see first "woman in the White House" and her being such brewens Dec 2016 #104
good lord.... mike_c Dec 2016 #105
You must feel gratified BainsBane Dec 2016 #107
Well done Dem2 Dec 2016 #106

MFM008

(19,806 posts)
1. much is true
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 02:00 AM
Dec 2016

Unfortunately many here are more disgruntled at fellow democrats than at the maggot and his supporters, or the way he will rape this country and what she stood for.

Cha

(297,154 posts)
2. Oh yeah, I was just tried to be taught that..
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 02:00 AM
Dec 2016

Hillary was too elite.. lol 65 Million voters are Elite!

All the African American and Latinos and all minorities are ELITE!

I'm Elite too.. ROFL

Did you know that?!

Thank you, BB.

SaschaHM

(2,897 posts)
4. I learned that Elitism was just as bad as racism today.
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 02:04 AM
Dec 2016

I'll remember that I'm the offender when my dad gets pulled over for being a black man with "Yale Dad" license plate in the south again.

Cha

(297,154 posts)
8. More Phony Baloney.. "Elitism" seems to be their new buzzword to
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 02:12 AM
Dec 2016

drag down Hillary.

It's not working.. unless she got 65 Million Elitist votes.

I know mine wasn't.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
46. Yeah, because a billionaire president with a cabinet of five billionaires
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 09:11 AM
Dec 2016

Is totally non-elitist.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
11. Going for that Guiness book thing, maybe
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 02:18 AM
Dec 2016

World record for most time spent bashing, pointlessly bashing.

Response to KPN (Reply #5)

Hekate

(90,648 posts)
26. Well, BlueProgressive, if you really believe that about Hillary, you have swallowed the RW lies....
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 03:36 AM
Dec 2016

....hook, line, and sinker, and nothing I can say or do will disabuse you of these notions.

cstanleytech

(26,284 posts)
30. Forcing? I dont recall anyone forcing me to vote for her but welcome to the DU
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 03:43 AM
Dec 2016

may your stay be memorial however long it might be.

JSup

(740 posts)
7. I learned that...
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 02:08 AM
Dec 2016

...when you're on fire it's much more important to say "I told you so" than it is to find water (or stop, drop and roll).

betsuni

(25,472 posts)
12. I love this and bookmarked it for when I get that Opposite World feeling.
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 02:25 AM
Dec 2016

Thank you so much for your posts, I really appreciate them -- it's like verbal vitamins.

(If your OP isn't alerted on, I'll eat my computer machine without salt.)

sheshe2

(83,746 posts)
13. Ha!
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 02:36 AM
Dec 2016

I am with you, betsuni. Salt is really not good for you, bad for your health. Hmm sorta like DU.

Oh wait...... Not sure if I need this, yet they are heeeeere.

Aimee in OKC

(158 posts)
89. Pre-election, many Tweets were chatbots in action.
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 12:36 AM
Dec 2016

THE AGE OF CHATBOTS IS UPON US

Chatbots are software agents that engage in conversations with humans and may even take physical actions. <CLIP> According to the University of Southern California (USC) study, the 2016 US Presidential election has been influenced by chatbots interacting with social media, also called social bots.

The study concluded that 19% of the 20 million Tweets in a five week period just prior to the election were created by social bots.

In 1950, Alan Turing, considered one of the fathers of Artificial Intelligence (AI), proposed the “Turing Test” to quantify machine “thinking.” For a computer to pass the test, it must only dupe 30 percent of the people who chat with it for five minutes. At the 2014 Turing Test competition, for the first time Russian chatbot impersonating a 13-year old passed the Turing Test by duping 33% of its interrogators.

http://techseen.com/2016/11/08/age-chatbots/

* * * * * * *

So, Oct. - Nov., 3,800,000 Tweets by chatbots.

A Russian chatbot actually passed the Turing Test in 2014. And we know, officially, Russia interfered with our election.

The KGB (of whom Putin was one) were masters of deception, misdirection, and sowing of dissent among allies. "Divide and conquer" has been a valid strategy since before the Romans used it.

rpannier

(24,329 posts)
18. Maybe you should take it up with
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 03:10 AM
Dec 2016

the majority of college educated whites that voted for Trump
or the large numbers of white women who voted Trump (especially for this... Women who hoped to see someone like themselves rise to the highest office in the land. Where were they when it came time to vote? Yeah. Wearing shirts that said he could grab their... and yelling lock her up)
or the 25% of Hispanics that voted for Il Douche

Are there going to be posts about them as well?

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
21. These are the same people who have voted for Republicans for decades.
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 03:13 AM
Dec 2016

We have become so partisan that it's almost impossible to break through.

(And before you say "Obama" -- he didn't get college educated whites, either.)

rpannier

(24,329 posts)
23. According to many articlesd I've seen
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 03:25 AM
Dec 2016

A lot of these college educated whites voted for Obama twice and then voted for Trump
You can spin it anyway you like, she didn't get a vote that she ultimately needed, white working class, because the Party was certain we didn't need it
And now we're where we hope that recount can shed some light

I could also point out that many young people in the Sanders camp were first time voters.

There are serious issues at play and it's fine for people to be angry and all that
But, at some point, should the recount come to nothing, people are going to have to accept that she didn't win and there are a lot of small reasons why she didn't. But, to go looking at one single group and blame them is kind of defeating

Examples to refute your point:
Elliot County, Kentucky had voted Democrat for President for almost 100 years (includes Obama twice)- went Trump
NE Minnesota twice Obama - Trump
Union County, IA Obama - Trump (13% swing from 2012)
La Crosse, WI, Rock Island, IL, etc all jumped and went Trump.
These were not Republicans that voted for McCain and Romney, these were areas Obama took and she didn't


https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/obama-trump-counties/

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
27. The majority of college educated whites voted for Romney and McCain.
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 03:36 AM
Dec 2016

And now for Trump. They stick with R's no matter how bad they are.

You can spin it any way you like, but 11 days before the election she was 9 points ahead of Trump in the polls. Then Comey dropped the first of his letter bombs and her support plunged to 2 points ahead. That's why she lost the Electoral College. But she has 2,600,000 more votes than he did -- even though the Courts decimated the voting rights act in 2013, allowing millions of Democratic votes to be suppressed.

https://www.thenation.com/article/the-gops-attack-on-voting-rights-was-the-most-under-covered-story-of-2016/

We’ll likely never know how many people were kept from the polls by restrictions like voter-ID laws, cuts to early voting, and barriers to voter registration. But at the very least this should have been a question that many more people were looking into. For example, 27,000 votes currently separate Trump and Clinton in Wisconsin, where 300,000 registered voters, according to a federal court, lacked strict forms of voter ID. Voter turnout in Wisconsin was at its lowest levels in 20 years and decreased 13 percent in Milwaukee, where 70 percent of the state’s African-American population lives, according to Daniel Nichanian of the University of Chicago.

I documented stories of voters in Wisconsin—including a 99-year-old man—who made two trips to the polls and one to the DMV on Election Day just to be able to vote, while others decided not to vote at all because they were denied IDs. When Margie Mueller, an 85-year-old woman from Plymouth, Wisconsin, wasn’t allowed to vote with her expired driver’s license, her husband, Alvin, decided not to vote either. They were both Democrats. “The damn Republicans,” he said, “don’t want Latinos and old people to vote.”

rpannier

(24,329 posts)
38. And I agree totally with
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 04:20 AM
Dec 2016

what you said about Comey that was probably the death knell
Voter ID agree as well
I also agree that the attacks/criticisms over the past two decades were a factor in Comey's bombshell of nothing but innuendo and non-substance having weight

It's difficult to place blame on one factor because it all sort of swirls around together into the bizarre Twilight Zone-esque situation we have
I just take issue with people blaming the Sanders campaign for this or Sanders supporters
As I mentioned above, we lost Elliott County, which is one of the most Democratic counties in the country and I find that disappointing.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
39. There is a lot of back and forth going on.
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 04:30 AM
Dec 2016

Bernie supporters blaming HRC for Bernie not being the candidate, and HRC supporters blaming Bernie for hurting her campaign.

But the truth is, both of them would have been subject to highly unfair GOP attacks. Just look what they did to John Kerry. And BOTH of them would have been affected by the decimation of the Voting Rights Act, not just Hillary.

THEY WANT US TO BLAME EACH OTHER. THAT WAY WE DON'T NOTICE THE REAL PROBLEMS:

Too many states are run by the GOP, who has been successfully gerrymandering -- and that's why we have a minority in the House.

Voter purging and voter ID did real damage in this election and will continue to do damage unless we stop it.

rpannier

(24,329 posts)
42. Agreed
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 04:33 AM
Dec 2016

Nothing to add on that
Kind of good (at least for me) that we talked this through
I don't think we have any real disagreements at all

bekkilyn

(454 posts)
58. Yep, but it's so much easier to Bernie-bash (or Hillary-bash)
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 10:26 AM
Dec 2016

than to work together to fight the REAL enemies...Trump and the alt-reich.

Come on Dems, stop unproductively pointing fingers and alienating allies and UNITE!

Build bridges not walls.

rpannier

(24,329 posts)
40. Just a quick addition
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 04:31 AM
Dec 2016

I'm a member over at JPR and 'Yes, some of them are worrisome.'
They're even circling Manny for saying that Trump is not a friend or ally of progressives or progressive causes

Hekate

(90,648 posts)
25. BB, you continue to articulate our anger, our grief, and our truth. Thank you for this.
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 03:31 AM
Dec 2016

DU is experiencing a rush of newbies from gods-know-where, plus returnees who cannot let go of their savior. I was told this evening that if Dwight Eisenhower were alive today he would endorse Bernie Sanders. What fantasy world is this?

I am so low I cannot even express the depths. Thank you for the energy of your outrage.

 

NoGoodNamesLeft

(2,056 posts)
31. I've actually been around since Howard Dean ran and I volunteered for his campaign
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 03:43 AM
Dec 2016

But I didn't post. Low post counts mean nothing but it won't stop some from making more assumptions.

Hekate

(90,648 posts)
35. Which is why I check people's sign-up dates when they say something really off the wall ...
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 04:06 AM
Dec 2016

...and have, say, 12 posts or 120 posts. Recently I've encountered a bunch who've joined very very recently. Or maybe rejoined.

I also was a Deaniac. One of my friends was in the room when he gave the "Dean Scream." She said the noise of the crowd was so great you couldn't hear yourself think, and he was trying to be heard above it. The TV cameras, however, had directional recording booms aimed right at him and they picked up every decibel. The MSM then replayed it over 600 times, laughing all the way. So my opinion of the broadcast and cable media is pretty low -- the way they handled Hilary's so-called scandals being a case in point.

Demsrule86

(68,555 posts)
49. I loved Dean and was bitterly disappointed when he lost...
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 09:40 AM
Dec 2016

but I still supported Kerry strongly and worked my butt off...I lived in GA so I could have 'protest ' voted and been all mad but I would never do such a thing. You win, you lose and you move on.

bigmonkey

(1,798 posts)
86. Strangely, Dianne Sawyer confessed that, on air.
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 11:14 PM
Dec 2016

Too many days later to make any difference, of course. Do the damage, then make sure you CYA by apologizing in a way that will leave the damage firmly in place.

 

NoGoodNamesLeft

(2,056 posts)
29. I learned that the millions of white people who voted for Trump are racists automatically
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 03:41 AM
Dec 2016

And that you don't have to actually even KNOW someone, ever see them, talk to them or even lay eyes on them...but you can still slander them by calling them a racist on this site and the overwhelming majority will agree with you.

Most of all I learned that IF this site is a true representation of the Democratic Party then it is just as intolerant and hateful as the GOP. I also learned that based on the level of bigotry I'm seeing here I am not sure I can vote Democratic next time around. I will NOT support bigotry and hatred, even if it's directed towards people who I think voted for an idiot. Wrong is wrong...even if that wrong is directed towards your opponent.

Way to shrink that tent.

Martin Eden

(12,864 posts)
88. "I am not sure I can vote Democratic next time around."
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 11:55 PM
Dec 2016

I agree with most of what you wrote, but the part I quoted in the subject title of this post is what prompted my reply.

Basing your vote on the behavior of some (not all) members of an internet forum who represent only a tiny portion of a wide swath of Democratic voters doesn't make sense as criteria for selecting the next leader of the free world.

If you look hard enough (actually, you wouldn't have to look very hard at all) you could find several forums of rabid bigots who support the Republican nominee. Throw in the KKK for good measure.

A candidate running for office cannot possibly be held accountable for everyone on the left or right side of the divide.

They must be held accountable for their own words & actions; their qualifications; and the merits of their ideas and the policies they champion.

I submit to you the sentence above provides much more sensible criteria upon which to base your vote.

world wide wally

(21,740 posts)
33. I learned that Trumps coalition is stronger than ours
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 03:53 AM
Dec 2016

His being the GOP, the FBI, the Russians, the news media, Wilkileaks, and racists.

cstanleytech

(26,284 posts)
34. Some of the onus for Bernie losing is on Bernie though as he and he alone was the one that made the
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 03:57 AM
Dec 2016

decision to only caucus with the Democratic party and that handicapped him vs Hillary who was a member of the party for decades but had he not decided to remain outside the party I suspect he might have beaten her as his message was clearer and more focused but thats water under the bridge now all we do is to keep moving forward and prepare for the next round of elections.

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
37. I learned that people see and "learn" what they want to see. I propose that the
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 04:15 AM
Dec 2016

next person either writing a screed against Bernie supporters or Hillary supporters, go for a balanced approach about how nasty shit keeps being said on both sides. The selective outrage and condemnation by people on both sides of this divide against people ONLY on the other side, is getting tiresome as fuck.

progressoid

(49,985 posts)
41. I've learned that some people are obsessed with a single topic.
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 04:32 AM
Dec 2016

Keep scratching that itch! I'm sure it will make rash go away the more you scratch it.

mahina

(17,646 posts)
43. What about the people who supported Bernie in the primary but supported Hillary in the general, who
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 05:18 AM
Dec 2016

Also turn up to phone bank and reliably make up the army of door knockers and party efforts?

I am one of those Democrats, one who never said a negative word about Hillary and think she is wonderful. I still hold a hope that through either the recounts or through the wisdom of the electors, she may still be our President, and I know she will be an excellent one.

I would like my community to unite.

Cheers.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
45. They are good Democrats
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 07:10 AM
Dec 2016

Working hard for the country, and as long as they aren't taking advantage of the electoral defeat to say what I describe above I have no problem with them. In fact, I appreciate all their efforts.

I don't care at all who people backed in the primary. I care about what they are doing now.

 

MadamPresident

(70 posts)
55. I supported Bernie and wanted him as the nominee but I had no problem transitioning.
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 10:15 AM
Dec 2016

The Bernie or Busters were and are an embarrassment. If anyone is so obtuse as to miss the very clear differences between Secretary Clinton and the Orange Anus™, they deserve the pain coming their way.

The absurdities being repeated by those ostensibly on our side were as bad as anything coming from the right, if not worse.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
56. Thank you!
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 10:18 AM
Dec 2016

I firmly believe everyone should vote for whomever they want in the primary, but ultimately the voters decide the winner. And as you say, you have to move on to confront the real threat. It's even stranger than they continue to be obsessed with that primary given what we are facing from Trump.

dionysus

(26,467 posts)
66. I wonder how many of the busters didnt vote, or wouldnt have voted otherwise,
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 11:27 AM
Dec 2016

As opposed to actually voting for adolf sniffler. Is there any data on this?

rzemanfl

(29,556 posts)
76. I am stealing Adolph Sniffler.
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 09:07 PM
Dec 2016

We live in a kleptocracy, so tough beans. I will reconsider if you PM the copyright to me.

Raster

(20,998 posts)
79. I also supported Bernie and wanted him as the nominee, but transitioned...
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 09:39 PM
Dec 2016

...to Clinton as our nominee.

The differences between tRumplethinskin and HRC ARE PROFOUND. The man is fucking evil, plain and simple. He is turning this country down a dark path, one that will blacken this country's soul.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
64. The primary ended
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 11:14 AM
Dec 2016

That should have been the end to the "wars" as well. To see people focus on that now given what we face with Trump is surreal. It's like they still think the Democratic Party is the enemy, which I see as a serious problem given what is happening in DC.

dionysus

(26,467 posts)
62. I see more ppl desperately blaming bernie and supporters instead of
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 11:00 AM
Dec 2016

Assigning ANY blame to clinton...

And if bernie wont do, its comey, millenials, jill stein, "it was stolen", ect...

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
63. I think it would be hard to claim some of those factors didn't play a role in the
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 11:11 AM
Dec 2016

defeat in the GE. However, at least that is about the GE rather than a long since settled primary. I can't imagine what could possibly be more irrelevant.

dionysus

(26,467 posts)
67. DUers have rehashed and refought primaries since kerry/dean, sadly
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 11:30 AM
Dec 2016

A lot of factors co tributed to her defeat, but the unsettling thing is she lost, badly (where it counts, the EC, which i think is outdated and needs to go)

My whole thing personally is, she should have won the biggest landslide in history considering who was running.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
70. That's unfortunate
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 03:01 PM
Dec 2016

And a complete waste of energy.

No Democrat has been elected following a Dem presidency since Truman. It would probably not have been a comperirive race with any number of other Republcans.

One thing I learned from the election is that this is not the country I thought a I lived in. No amount of finger pointing at Clinton can change the fact that 61 million voters decided to vote for an overt racist and sexual assailant.

 

zonkers

(5,865 posts)
108. Me, too. As a Bernie supporter who shifted to HRC, no problem... I have to say the vitriol
Thu Dec 15, 2016, 09:31 AM
Dec 2016

that is dished out against him blows my fucking mind. The old guy is still fighting tirelessly and intelligently for equality and against the one percent. I am still scratching my head as to why he keeps getting dissed around here. Oh yeah, he's not a democrat or not a real democrat or whatever.

NRQ891

(217 posts)
65. I learned that the party may not want to learn from what happened
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 11:16 AM
Dec 2016

and instead, just get even more indignant against people they felt owed them their vote. and therefore lose even harder next time

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
68. You make a number of assumptions
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 11:42 AM
Dec 2016

1) DU is not the party. It's a message board.
2) That people don't agree with your particular assessment of the election does not meant they don't want to learn.
3) this election result has been traumatic for many. Grief is a multi-stage process. Given that so many are unable to get past a primary settled months ago, you can hardly expect people to be clear eyed about the recent GE.

Ultimately this site is comprised of voters and volunteers, individuals who understand the GE differently. Assuming otherwise is a mistake.

in 2018 and 2020 we will face a very different political environment. The Democrats will not be an incumbent party, so the challenge will be very different. One thing that is certain is that the 2016 primary battle will have little to no bearing on that future. Those who continue to see the Democratic Party rather than Trump and his White Supremacist cleptocratic administration as the enemy are doing nothing to aid the resistance against the rise of fascism.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
71. What we've learned: people around here love them some circular firing squads
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 05:56 PM
Dec 2016

perhaps we should petition the admins to rename this forum to that, since that's most of what I see here. Everyone needs to wake the fuck up and realise that internal factionalism is just distracting you from the real enemy and the actual issues. (Which are mostly: voter suppression and media fuckery over the email nonstory. Not Bernie supporters, not "identity politics", not "Failure to reach the white working class", or whatever other crackbrained thinkpiece-bait theory you've come up with.)

Progressive dog

(6,900 posts)
72. Many real Democrats do get angry
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 06:11 PM
Dec 2016

over people pretending to be Democrats who seem to be opposed to democracy. I wonder where they think our party's name came from.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
80. And who exactly are the real vs unreal Democrats?
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 09:45 PM
Dec 2016

And what opposition to democracy do you refer?

When the part took its name, it deliberately excloded the great majority of Americans from voting. Are you unaware of that or not care?

Progressive dog

(6,900 posts)
97. The real democrats are those who put democracy
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 06:34 PM
Dec 2016

first. When a candidate wins the party primaries by millions of votes, real Democrats support that candidate.

reflection

(6,286 posts)
74. I've learned that Bernie is responsible for so many bad things
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 06:15 PM
Dec 2016

he may be the left-wing version of the Clenis. What an enigma, that Bernie. So impotent, and yet so omnipotent. A walking paradox.

Martin Eden

(12,864 posts)
77. I stopped reading the OP after the first two senteneces
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 09:22 PM
Dec 2016

Specifically, this:

Their grief pales in the comparison to the far more important outrage of Bernie supporters who continue to be angry about the primary


How omniscient of you to assert such an intimate knowledge of the hearts and minds of millions of Democratic voters who didn't support your candidate in the primary.

Let me rub my own little crystal ball for a moment here, to peer into the recesses of the BainsBane psyche ...

Ah ... I see it now.
The overriding imperative to build a broad coalition to defeat Trumpism and rejuvenate the Democratic Party pales in comparison to the far more important task of berating Bernie supporters in order to parade around on your high horse among the righteous who hold the monopoly on caring about our country and those who suffer from the results of Nov 8.

Martin Eden

(12,864 posts)
81. Too bad; you missed a spot-on and much deserved reprimand
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 10:00 PM
Dec 2016

Not that it would have changed your mind (had you bothered to articulate what's on it).

Martin Eden

(12,864 posts)
87. Sounds an awful lot like you're reprimanding me
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 11:28 PM
Dec 2016

Who made you the judge?

Are we having fun yet?

BB chose to insult a wide swath of Democratic voters -- a reprimand -- except it went way beyond that. Such reprehensible behavior will deservedly elicit a negative response. I felt personally insulted even though I moved on from the primary when it was over and voted for Hillary in the general election.

That's what prompted my response, but it wasn't my motivation. Bernie Sanders supporters are not the enemy. Hillary Clinton supporters are not the enemy. Hell, even Jill Stein voters are not the enemy.

The enemy is the fascist ready to take the reigns of power with all three branches in Rethuglican hands.

I'm of the opinion it would be more productive to focus our ire and our energies in THAT direction instead of against each other.

Of course, you and BainesBane are free to disagree -- as I am free to express myself to the contrary.

Free speech is great; let's hope we still have it in four years.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
103. no, the primaries were lost ages before bernie actually gave up. the election was lost a month ago
Thu Dec 15, 2016, 12:05 AM
Dec 2016

losing the GE is a much bigger deal than losing in a primary.

so not nothing comparable and no stupid pot-kettle comparisons.

brewens

(13,575 posts)
104. With such a historic opportunity, to see first "woman in the White House" and her being such
Thu Dec 15, 2016, 12:23 AM
Dec 2016

a wonderful candidate, how could she not have gotten the kind of numbers Obama got in his first election?

I thought I was told on here that Hillary had overwhelming support from the AA community, who had no use of Sanders despite his clear record on civil rights. What happened to that?

Goldman Sachs appears to have had it locked up both ways now. At least some of us knew better.

mike_c

(36,281 posts)
105. good lord....
Thu Dec 15, 2016, 01:16 AM
Dec 2016

You know what I learned about the election on DU? I learned to keep quite about the cluelessness of the Democratic party establishment and their third way defenders on DU. I learned to be silent when I knew in my heart that Senator Clinton was an awful nominee when the electorate clearly wanted a populist rather than an establishment insider.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
107. You must feel gratified
Thu Dec 15, 2016, 02:45 AM
Dec 2016

That she lost so you get to say I told you so. Now if you can only figure out how to keep the inferior "third way defenders" from voting, you can have the party you always wanted. The GOP is working diligently on doing that for you. The people they target are the very "third way defenders" you hold in such disdain-- because ultimately it was the subaltern that delivered Clinton the vast majority of her votes in the primary and the GE, like we have for every other Democrat in recent decades.

I do find fascinating the complete lack of interest in policy in the many posts like yours I've read. People throw around terms like third way with no concern for what they mean in terms of policy positions or what our nominee actually proposed. It's unfortunate that those who continually malign Clinton and the 65 million Americans who voted for her never bothered to read her policy positions. It's easier to throw around labels anyway. Who cares if it bears absolutely no relation to 2016 or the positions Hillary ran on. Certainly not you. You're very good at media memes though. And really, that's all that matters in post-truth America. I don't pretend to be in fashion. I care about substantive policy, not slogans. I don't claim to have my finger on the pulse of the low information voter. I make my own voting decisions based on a candidate's preparedness, competence, and how substantive their proposed policies are. I plan to continue doing so. If that prompts you to see me as the enemy, so be it.

You didn't keep your mouth shut. You've made similar insults many times before. That approach was widespread during the primary, yet you all are still amazed Sanders lost. It still hasn't occurred to any of you that insulting voters day in and day out doesn't increase one's candidate's prospects. I guess it would be different if I were a racist Republican. Then I might be worthy of respect, but being a life-long Democrat makes me a "third way defender" and beneath contempt.



Dem2

(8,168 posts)
106. Well done
Thu Dec 15, 2016, 01:38 AM
Dec 2016

I usually stay out of these internecine battles, but much of what you've said has been noted by myself and I appreciate your righteous rant in pointing out the hypocrisy that is also contained on our side.

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