"Blaming Clintons base for her loss is the Ultimate Insult " NY Magazine

[bettyellen]

I'm not engaging with anyone who calls this identity politics. If RW framing suits you, you're ignoring the base of this party and what it stands for. If you think women are running only on their gender, maybe you're not actually a liberal and I doubt you did a thing but complain about "holding your nose".

Good article about wonderful people who have worked for good causes for years. We should be Thankful for what they have done.


http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/11/blaming-clintons-base-for-her-loss-is-the-ultimate-insult.html

[HassleCat]

1. Nothing wrong with identity politics

In fact, it's generally a good thing. We perhaps relied on it too much this time.

[bettyellen]

7. The media's role cannot be underestimated in this. Comney bears blame BUT the media did not

Present it like the unprecedented partisan smear it was.
And Wikileaks? pushing that crap as something scandalous without examining that the sourcing itself was a bigger scandal? CNN and MSNBC fucked the nation.

[JHan]

2. Every single word of that.. every damn word of it.

[JHan]

3. Listening to these ID Politics Critics..

it's almost like they want to say Clinton saying "Black Lives Matter" cost her the election..

Nah they can hold to that bullshit analysis.

[uponit7771]

4. She got two million more votes... Sounds like a tactical error vs a strategic one... She did good

[Me.]

5. Brilliant Article

And the fact that those men speak about the Secretary and others the way they do makes them part of the problem and nowhere near the solution.

[bettyellen]

6. I think so. I know normally principled men who lied- and spread RW crap for months only because they

Thought they had a shot. And after the convention when they got real about it and were able to discuss it calmly and read and listen- they actually admired Hillary.
But they had already salted the earth pretty badly by then. Almost cost one his marriage. In a million years I would never guess one of them would repeat shit from breibart. It was his brand of hatred that made me look harder at the candidates. I dreaded the idea of working for Sanders because of the disinformation being spread, but I would have.
And what kills me now, is they think the NE liberal campaign of condescending dank memes would have played well in the rust belt. Guess what- they hate them too, they're just slightly less threatening about it to men.

[Me.]

11. Thanks To Family Members Who Live In The Rust Belt

I know that the Republican spew on Clinton, for years, has been/is most effective. Normally smart people spout the most awful nonsense and these are union members whose jobs were saved by Obama. I only know about Michigan, but there is a deep-seated racism and misogyny that has never been dispelled and which if confronted the holders of such would not only deny it’s existence, they wouldn’t even recognize it in themselves. And now that men, whether consciously or un, fear losing their 'rightful place' an unnamed fear is scaring them. This, however, does not mean we need to acquiesce to their fear, quite the contrary. Each of us are deserving of a 'rightful place' and they are just going to have to learn what’s really what, get out of their basements and recognize the equality all must share. That is why some members of the very same family have asked a brother in DC if they can visit en masse to march for their rights.

[bettyellen]

13. That's encouraging- most of my friends are liberal and at least socially liberal....

And I was shocked at the resistance- and sometimes down right refusal of many (primarily but not always men) to dig deeper and actually read real news accounts and listen to her. Eventually when some did they were shocked!!! To find out they did not "hate her"... because they'd been told for years "everyone does".

[betsuni]

8. K&R!

[kebob]

9. See Sig Below

[BlueMTexpat]

10. K&R!!!!!!

[Cosmocat]

12. This is a 100 percent false frame

Where has anyone "blamed Hillarys supporters?"

That just is complete, reflexive and dishonest.

What people are saying is there was an over emphasis on identity POLITICS (campaigning) that was to Hillarys disadvantage.

AND, as someone else noted she didnt drive it, DT did. He would wake up every day and say something horrible about some non white non christian group of people and we would run to their defense.

SO, for an entire year and a half the democratic party, as a proxy for its nominee was every day virulently defending mexicans, muslims, blm, transgenders ...

Now, before people lose their shit WE AS DEMOCRATS SUPPORT THE RIGHTS OF ALL AMERICANS AND RIGHTFULLY CHAMPION THE CAUSES OF THESE PEOPLE.

But, POLITICALLY this hurt badly because it constantly, every damn day, put the party and our nominee at odds w biases that certain elements of our coalition may have had, in his insane way DT fractured away some of our coalition.

AND, this constant defense of these groups, again day to day, put the level of hatred his base and rs have for these groups to insane levels.

No one is suggesting the party should not support these groups of people, to fight POLICYWISE on their behalf. People just are CORRECTLY noting it is problematic POLITICALLY if this discussion defines campaigns.

[bettyellen]

14. "We support rights...... BUT" stopped reading after that.

People want to go back to that sort of invisible secret sort of support Sanders showed his first month stumping?hell to the no. You all figure out how to reframe it if you're the geniuses about how problematic it is. Because you are the ones who see it as problematic. You have to learn to unequivocally support our rights and not ask to be on the down low about it. That is NOT an option.

[Cosmocat]

15. Its not binary

But this mindset got us to where we are now, so feel free to dig in your heels and good luck with DT and complete control of congress and most states by republicans.

[bettyellen]

16. No it's not. But we can't ask POC or women to sit in the back and it's happening now....

The blame, the constant worries we might alienate racists and sexists. All the handwringing that "sjws" cost is the election. If you haven't seen it this past week, you haven't been looking it is out there.

Listen to yourself bemoaning the "constant defense" as if it's a bad thing. We have to learn how to make it a great thing.

I'm suggesting if people care about both- craft better messages for both. But do not suggest any Dems vote with their vaginas. We heard that plenty here during the primaries and it was repulsive and divisive.

[Cosmocat]

17. Dont misconstrue my words

LITERALLY every day for a year and a half democrats were drawn out by Trump saying aborent shit about some non white, non christian group.

That is what I was refering to as the "constant defense."

I fucking hate people demogoguing minorities and gays, it pisses me off to no end, and i personally dont put up with it.

But, this nonstop talk about these things sucked the air out of any discussion of the economy, foreign policy, etc, it helped to fracture off some of our coalition and put team rs stupid on steroids.

This whole election ended reinforcing the negative frames the r party have cast on the d party for years now, no substance and "unamerican."

I will repeat once again, NO ONE IS SAYING DONT WORK FROM A POLICY STANDPOINT TO SUPPORT THE RIGHTS OF ALL AMERICANS OR NEVER TAKE TO THEIR DEFENSE.

Saying the party has to prinarily take a stand on economic issues is not some kind of slight.

[bettyellen]

18. People are accusing people of running or voting with their vaginas -even here-

And it would seem that's because if it wasn't Bernies exact plan, you have NO plan. And it's bullshit, but I have seen it here and everywhere this crap about "identity politics" and it's exactly the same crap the Bros who became bobs were saying all spring. Well they helped Trump win with that crap, because lots of them convinced millenials that HRC was nothing but a vagina.

And there's a big difference between supporting rights and fighting for them. And if a person can't do that loud and proud you have no place being a Dem. if there are concerns it's not palatable for bigots, the white make Dems gotta figure out new framing because those of us who enthusiastically support them can't put ourselves in their bigoted shoes. and we will not back down.

[Cosmocat]

19. For the third time

It is not an either or situation.

It is a loser politically to have a year and a half chasing one insult on groups of people after another at the expense of any meaningful economic policy push.

See, Donald fucking Trump POTUS and Rs in complete control of all levels of government.

[bettyellen]

20. "chasing one insult after another" is what the PRESS DID. But you wanna blame HRC Sonya gonna find

A way.

And don't kid yourself that you've responded to my posts, you're literally ignoring them and posting the same crap again and again.