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Tue Dec 11, 2012, 01:55 PM

Are We All Clear, Now? Does Everybody Understand?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/11/teachers-call-out-as-protests-rev-up-against-michigan-union-bill/

First Wisconsin, then Ohio, and now Michigan. All three of these states backed President Obama's re-election in 2012.

All of these anti-worker bills have been enacted for ONE reason: Too much of the party base stayed home and didn't vote on Nov. 2, 2010. As a result, all three states replaced Democratic governors with Republican governors and gave Republicans solid control of their state legislatures.

Are we going to make the same costly mistake again in 2014? I hope not. The Democrats are not perfect, but like I've said all along, it's better to get half the pie than to be thrown in the oven with it.

44 replies, 4074 views

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Arrow 44 replies Author Time Post
Reply Are We All Clear, Now? Does Everybody Understand? (Original post)
BlueDemKev Dec 2012 OP
upaloopa Dec 2012 #1
Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2012 #5
pangaia Dec 2012 #13
Amonester Dec 2012 #24
Lil Missy Dec 2012 #26
musiclawyer Dec 2012 #2
WestCoastLib Dec 2012 #11
jberryhill Dec 2012 #30
boingboinh Dec 2012 #3
Hekate Dec 2012 #4
PoliticalBiker Dec 2012 #6
jody Dec 2012 #7
kimbutgar Dec 2012 #9
jody Dec 2012 #10
kimbutgar Dec 2012 #14
jody Dec 2012 #15
kimbutgar Dec 2012 #16
Kingofalldems Dec 2012 #21
Skittles Dec 2012 #28
Taverner Dec 2012 #23
Skittles Dec 2012 #29
Taverner Dec 2012 #38
Skittles Dec 2012 #40
Cali_Democrat Dec 2012 #32
Skittles Dec 2012 #41
Cali_Democrat Dec 2012 #43
Filibuster Harry Dec 2012 #8
Skittles Dec 2012 #42
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #12
socialist_n_TN Dec 2012 #17
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #18
Skittles Dec 2012 #27
Resonance_Chamber Dec 2012 #19
Texin Dec 2012 #20
lunatica Dec 2012 #22
Amonester Dec 2012 #25
MrSlayer Dec 2012 #31
iemitsu Dec 2012 #33
riqster Dec 2012 #34
iemitsu Dec 2012 #37
FarPoint Dec 2012 #35
catbyte Dec 2012 #36
neverforget Dec 2012 #39
Doctor_J Dec 2012 #44

Response to BlueDemKev (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:06 PM

1. What I don't understand is why they vote for

a repub government. It seems they have to get their asses kicked before they see what anti middle class the Repubs are.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:18 PM

5. I know.

It's aggravating, isn't it? People like us warn others over and over again what is going to happen when these people get elected but very few take heed, the wrong people get into office and get stuff like RTW signed into law and then the rest of us just shrug our shoulders and go on to the next big mistake.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 06:47 PM

13. Ignorance.

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Response to pangaia (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:19 AM

24. Too many youngs just vote for President, look at the awful rest....

down ballot (how long would it take to ponder just who the F is "who?"), just give up, and leave.

Something is wrong in that (too long) process.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:37 AM

26. They are reacting to what Fox News tells them, they have no idea what's going on.

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Response to BlueDemKev (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:15 PM

2. POTUS going against the MJ states

Will cause another repeat of '10 in '14

It's all interconnected .....rendering POTUS' response to weed very significant. His best bet, tell the DOJ and DEA to do nothing

Same thing with entitlements. Do nothing. Don't touch them.

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Response to musiclawyer (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 06:08 PM

11. Gross Generalization

Marijuana isn't the keystone issue that is going to change voters from democratic to republican.

And "protest non-voters" are just as responsible for the Democratic Party's shift to the right as anyone. The more elections democrats lose to republicans, the more the party shifts to the right to catch up.

The best way to move the party (and the country) to the left is to elect democrats overwhelmingly, each and every election.

Make it clear that Right Wing ideas aren't going to win elections.

Sitting out election day because of marijuana, or any single issue, isn't helping your cause.

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Response to WestCoastLib (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 03:00 AM

30. "Sitting out election day because of marijuana"

That almost happened to me in 1988. It wasn't marijuana though. It was this extraction reduction from San Pedro cactus that, I don't know if it had any real effects but after you finished throwing up you felt pretty good!

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Response to BlueDemKev (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:15 PM

3. Although the Democratic Party continues to Shift Right....

 

I agree the issue was voters never came out....hand it to democratic voters they live up to their stereotypes of not being dedicated relative to their republican voters counterparts who will come out rain or shine to vote against their best interests.

However, let's never forget that our party is just as owned by corporate interests as republicans. The only difference is that our party has to be more subtle about enacting devastating changes (e.g. they will say their hands were tied so they had to agree with republicans) whereas the republicans can just come out and say/do it because their base doesn't care.

But in the end i'd take a slow death by continuing to vote for a Democrat than a quick one by putting in a Republican. That is, unless we are given a third party choice.

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Response to BlueDemKev (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:16 PM

4. Already I am reading here that some will jump over 2014 and stay home in 2016

Actually, "those people" are not even mentioning 2014, and never respond when I ask, but are intent on bitching about Obama's current perceived failings and how they are going to prove a point by voting 3rd party or not at all in 2016. Gimme a break.

I completely agree with you about the consequences of the base staying home because midterms somehow don't matter.

The seeds of the current disaster were sown in Reagan's administration, but they were grown to fruition in 2010 and are being harvested now. We're watching a literal fascist takeover in many states, and outside of Rachel Maddow and Bill Moyers, who in the media is really noticing?

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Response to Hekate (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:26 PM

6. You Won't Find Me....

... missing any elections.
I work them and vote in every one. Even primaries.
But you are right... many don't.
Many are of the thought that it doesn't matter what or who the election is about or in office, their concerns are of little meaning. Especially in the primaries and off-year elections.

Elections matter folks.

VOTE! Every election... no matter how small.

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Response to BlueDemKev (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:38 PM

7. Perhaps you are right but only 7% of private sector employees are union members. Workers are not

 

stupid and see jobs leaving Michigan, California, etc. for right to work states or overseas.

Back to your subject:
Are We All Clear, Now? No say many workers in the private sector.

Does Everybody Understand? No say many workers in the private sector.

Good, bad, or indifferent, it's just too easy for unemployed former private sector workers to blame loss of jobs on unions. That produces a political climate in which right to work laws emerge.

Sure, our party platform says "We will continue to vigorously oppose “Right to Work” and “paycheck protection” efforts, and so-called “Save our Secret Ballot” measures whenever they are proposed."

But those who have benefited most from that effort have been the 37% of public sector employees that belong to unions. That's another thorn in the side of private sector employees.

It's possible more states will adopt right to work laws joining the 25 that already have them before that trend is reversed.

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Response to jody (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 04:33 PM

9. The line about companies leaving California for other states is wrong.

The companies are opening up new branches in different states while still having their headquarters in California. It was in our local paper the SF Chronicle about how Perry is lying. People want to live and work in California because the quality of living is better, better schools, and better opportunities for moving up.

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Response to kimbutgar (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 04:44 PM

10. The California factory run by both General Motors and Toyota closed. One of the parties reopened

 

a plant in the South.

"A new Census Bureau report reveals that about 100,000 more people are leaving California than are coming to the state. "
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Californias-Population-Moving-Out-182914961.html

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Response to jody (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:23 PM

14. No Jody this happened because the economy was slowing down and the GM Toyota plant was

Closed due to downsizing because people weren't buying cars. And now Tesla builds their cars there and not in Texas. Why is that? Because of an educated skilled work force. Jody turn off fox. Read the economist, Bloomberg, Forbes maybe you'll learn something. I read about this in those magazines not from tv or fox.

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Response to kimbutgar (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:45 PM

15. I never watch Fox and even turn my eyes away if I happen to pass a TV tuned to it.

 

I read as much as you or more but so what!

You can twist all you want but companies are leaving CA as well as 100,000 people last year.

CA cities are going bankrupt and the courts will decide how much of that financial burden will be borne by public sector employees and retirees.

Telsa is a sample size one. I hope it ushers in a recovery for bankrupt California because with 37+ million people it has a tremendous effect on the nation's economy.

IMO the nation's economy won't begin to recover until California leads the way.

I've enjoyed the years I lived in California and the many weeks and months I've spent there.

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Response to jody (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:45 PM

16. We are the way. We just passed prop 30 raising taxes and things are turning around.

I got offered a job today because office depot is expanding and the clerk asked if I needed to earn extra money. I already work 2 part time jobs and another firm wants to hire me for my specialty work. But I like making good money working 25 hours a week. Weekends and Monday's off, paid vacations. It is not hard to find jobs now in the SF bay area and we are not a right to work state. Once rich people start paying fair share in taxes and pensions get reformed (do away with double dipping pensions) things are getting better in California. We are a blue state who sees the bs of the GOP. I am also fortunate as my husband has a good paying full benefit proud union job.

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Response to jody (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:25 PM

21. I see the light. I will bow to my new masters.

Thank you republicans.

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:58 AM

28. STOP IT Kingofalldems

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Response to kimbutgar (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 12:57 AM

23. They're a union basher - no sense trying to reason with them

 

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Response to Taverner (Reply #23)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:59 AM

29. yup

she even throws in "right to work" as if that is what it actually means

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Response to Skittles (Reply #29)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:19 PM

38. TDS did a great segment on how the worst legislation is called the opposite of what it is

 

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Response to Taverner (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:27 PM

40. OH DON'T WE KNOW !!!

"right to life" "right to work" "no child left behind" - TOTAL BULLSHIT!

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Response to Taverner (Reply #23)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 03:41 AM

32. Surprise surprise. A union basher with over 100 posts in the gungeon

No doubt likely spouting gun nut talking points.

These folks are so easy to spot on DU.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #32)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:28 PM

41. is it me or do they get to hang around much longer than they used to?

they're not even trying to hide now; like the GOP, they flaunt their ignorance

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Response to Skittles (Reply #41)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 05:04 PM

43. Yup. They're taking advantage of the new system

It allows trolls to stick around much longer than they used to.

Oh well. I now consider it my duty to make their lives a living hell before they are tombstoned

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Response to BlueDemKev (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 02:46 PM

8. To the voters who didn't vote -- shut up and deal with the fact that you failed to show up.

I have voted everytime ; I don't understand how or why people don't vote. I realize there are many people who believe their vote does not count; IT DOES COUNT - Especially when your local and state elections are taking place. No excuse people.

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Response to Filibuster Harry (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:29 PM

42. you're assuming people squawking did not vote

many of us did vote but understand why many people were not motivated to vote

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Response to BlueDemKev (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 06:12 PM

12. Absolutely! It's clear that elected Democrats must advance

traditional Democratic values or else disgusted voters stay home.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:46 PM

17. Now Manny, it's not the responsibility of the party to.......

EARN your vote. You didn't get your pony did you?

One nice thing about being a Marxist, you don't worry about voting actually CHANGING anything significant.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:54 AM

27. CORRECT!

what part of THAT is so fucking hard to understand?

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Response to BlueDemKev (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 04:27 AM

19. Snyder and other Pubs do not get elected on

 

Republican votes alone.

A bunch of Democrats helped elect him too.

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Response to Resonance_Chamber (Reply #19)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:51 AM

20. It's clear there must have been some crossover.

But the major thing that happens in non-Presidential years, is voter apathy. These so-called Tea Partiers "looked" like a mix of voters, but they were really only rethugs (and the most far right, racist bible thumping members of that party) in disguise. Some of those candidates that won - Snyder among them - played a good game of bait and switch with the voters, and each of those successful Rethug-Tea Party candidates appeared to be moderates.

What happened in WI and MI, with Kasech's driveby attempt in OH blindsided most voters. But the sad fact remains is that a huge percentage of the population of the U.S. doesn't understand that labor unions have been fighting and bargaining to better the average working man's or woman's life. Most folks don't understand or appreciate that the only reason they have 40-hour work weeks (assuming they do), vacations and other employee benefits is because workers in unions have been bargaining for those conditions and rights for over five decades. But people who are struggling financially always want to blame some external source as a reason for their own private woes, and unions have been kicked around for years as the go-to scapegoat. The dumber the voters, the more this resonates.

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Response to BlueDemKev (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:05 PM

22. And unfortunately many who stayed home did it to send a lesson to the President

Lot's of DUers refused to vote for that reason alone.

It's beyond disgusting that people supposedly on our side would deliberately let this happen thinking it would teach President Obama a lesson.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:31 AM

25. There is that, but most of all, many youngsters just don't bother about the mid-terms...

or the "endless list of unknowns" down ballot.

Millions of them just bother to go vote for the presidency, and that's about it.

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Response to BlueDemKev (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 03:07 AM

31. The base came out. The people that voted exclusively for Obama in 2008 did not.

 

All those young and minority voters that normally couldn't care less about politics voted for the first Black President happily and enthusiastically. But they didn't vote in the mids because Obama wasn't on the ticket and quite frankly, they didn't know any better. No one pushed them and no one told them they had to, what was at stake. I'm sick of this "base stayed home to punish Obama" bullshit. The base votes in every election, it's why they're the base. And unless the President keeps his ground game active and repeats over and over that voting for Democrats in the midterms is the same as voting for him, the same thing will happen.

The same Republicans vote in every election. Our extra people only come out in Presidential years. That must change.

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Response to BlueDemKev (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 03:50 AM

33. Consider that all of these states and more might have republican

governors and state-houses gratis rigged voting machines.
We have been paying attention to the cheating that has surrounded the presidential contests but there is no reason to assume that lesser races aren't where all the techniques associated with stealing an election are tested.
The media reported that many democrats stayed home in 2010 but the media lies. We were told that young voters did not turn out either and that was a lie.
Until we have clean and verifiable elections I would hesitate to blame voters for the results of those elections.
The problems in this country are far bigger than just voters who sit out elections.

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Response to iemitsu (Reply #33)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 05:09 AM

34. Granted, there are issues

...but turnout trumps them all. Witness both of BO's victories. Turnout was what enabled him to overcome rampant voter suppression efforts and other pro-Reep activities.

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Response to riqster (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 12:09 PM

37. I am certain that voter turnout had much to do with both

elections of Barak Obama but that doesn't mean that down ticket races weren't rigged.
We can't know for certain who was really the choice of the people in any race because so many ballots are tossed, lost, or uncounted, some states (like Arizona) count so slowly that they hope the early called candidate takes the seat after badgering the opponent to concede, other states (like Texas) are controlled by one party, who always wins. Our elections are suspect.
The fact that the government has ignored the obvious issues with disenfranchisement and cheating suggests that those in power are fine with unverifiable election results. In a sane, honest democracy, this would not be the case.
Washington state elected two democrats to our sate senate who have already switched parties and will caucus with the republicans. My long-time, local state representative barely squeaked a win over a "democratic" contender who is pro-life and pro-charter schools and who outspent the incumbent by three times. Could this, at least, partly explain Blue Dog Democrats?
It is cheaper and more effective to buy state-house seats than Federal. If we want a decent country to live in we must be sure that our elected officials are honest about their affiliations and positions and that they are really the candidates that voters select.

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Response to BlueDemKev (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 05:26 AM

35. I think of this daily....

I'm in Ohio....we didn't get our base out.... Everyone assumed Ted Strickland was going to win....we were cursed, punished with Kasick because democrats were lazy!

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Response to BlueDemKev (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:29 AM

36. Snyder is toast in 2014. I promise to work harder & give as much $ as possible

to see that lying liar gone from Lansing. He is the most despicable governor in America because of his lies. And his nails-on-chalkboard irritating voice is insufferable. Lying bastard.

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Response to BlueDemKev (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:41 PM

39. Our base turned out it was the Independents that fucked it for us all.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/2010-midterms-political-price-economic-pain/story?id=12041739#.UN85T3fNmSp


Women voted 49-48 percent for Democratic vs. Republican House candidate -- the best for Republicans among women in national House vote in exit polls since 1982. Obama won women by 13 points in 2008.

Democrats and Republicans were at parity in self-identification nationally, 36-36 percent, a return to the close division seen in years before 2008, when it broke dramatically in the Democrats' favor, 40-33 percent.

Swing-voting independents who, as usual, made the difference, favored Republicans for House by a thumping 16 points, 55-39 percent. Compare that to Obama's 8-point win among independents in 2008. It was the Republicans' biggest win among independents in exit polls dating to 1982 (by two points. The GOP won independents by 14 points in 1994, the last time they took control of the House.)

Sixty percent of whites backed Republican House candidates, the most in exit polls dating back to 1982. (In presidential rather than House vote Ronald Reagan won more whites in 1984).

Conservatives accounted for 41 percent of voters -- a high in recent exit polls exceeded, in available data, only by 43 percent in that Reagan re-election of 1984.

It also was the biggest vote for Republicans among white Catholics -- like independents, a true swing voter group. They voted 40-58 in favor of Republicans for House. In the next widest, in 1994, Republicans won white Catholics by 55-44 percent.

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Response to BlueDemKev (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 04:25 PM

44. A liberal hater posting from Fox News

I'm shocked!



And I suppose too many stayed home for the recall in WI too!!!11!

Go ahead, keep bashing liberals instead of vote-stealing Repukes.

You people make me

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