HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Politics 2014 (Forum) » Budget diagrams - why are...

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 06:27 PM

Budget diagrams - why are Social Security and Medicare ever shown on diagrams of the Federal

Budget?



These are off-budget, self-financed programs, just like the Post Office!

This is a more accurate image of the federal Budget!

11 replies, 2101 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 11 replies Author Time Post
Reply Budget diagrams - why are Social Security and Medicare ever shown on diagrams of the Federal (Original post)
hedgehog Dec 2012 OP
DJ13 Dec 2012 #1
skrempi313 Dec 2012 #2
Samantha Dec 2012 #3
hedgehog Dec 2012 #4
Samantha Dec 2012 #8
Hydra Dec 2012 #5
Jeff In Milwaukee Dec 2012 #11
PoliticAverse Dec 2012 #6
Squinch Dec 2012 #7
Samantha Dec 2012 #9
Jeff In Milwaukee Dec 2012 #10

Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 06:30 PM

1. You answered your own question

To make the Pentagon portion look smaller than it is.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 06:34 PM

2. Spam deleted by gkhouston (MIR Team)

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 06:36 PM

3. Do you know the source of that top chart and what the chart itself is labeled?

But to answer your question, when President Obama gave us a temporary break on the FICA tax, he made the statement the difference would be paid out of the Social Security Trust Fund but paid out of the general ledger. I thought he made that statement to assure the American people he was not trying to make the Fund less stable; he was only trying to give us a break during tough times. Just a guess on my part.

Sam

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Samantha (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 06:42 PM

4. I pulled the images off a Google image search;

the ratios look about right to me based on various charts i've seen.

The first chart is here:

http://uafps100x.community.uaf.edu/2012/10/11/week-7-the-federal-budget/

The second is here:

http://nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hedgehog (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:29 PM

8. I usually pull my statistics from the Congressional Budget Office

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/budgetinfographic.pdf

Take a look at this chart representing the 2011 budget. And check out the explanation above it -- here are two paragraphs:

"Annual budget deficits occur when spending exceeds revenues; the government must borrow to cover such a shortfall. Federal debt held by the public is the total value of outstanding Treasury bills, notes, bonds, and other debt instruments (including Treasury securities held by the Federal Reserve) that have accumulated over time to finance the government’s activities.

At the end of fiscal year 2011, debt held by the public amounted to $10.1 trillion, or 67% of GDP. Another $4.6 trillion in Treasury securities were held by other federal government accounts, representing amounts that one part of the government (mostly the Social Security Administration) had lent to another (the Treasury)."

It is too late for me to examine this in depth, but I am wondering if that Social Security portion indicates the Federal Government is having to pay back part of what it borrowed. I also know the break on the FICA tax is financed by the Federal Government, but that alone cannot exceed what we spend on defense.

Maybe we can look at it again tomorrow and discern the answers; or perhaps someone here more knowledgeable than I can comment. But generally speaking, this is an excellent source for your question.

Sam

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 06:50 PM

5. This is the Elephant in the room

The Military/police/intel and Gov't corruption are swallowing our budget whole. If people were constantly seeing the bottom chart, they'd be asking how much we should be cutting from the red and putting into social programs.

The upper chart makes the social programs look like the economic drag.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hydra (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:01 AM

11. It's even worse than the second chart makes it appear...

There's a significant chunk of other discretionary budgets that support the military. Through the Cold War, a significant portion of nuclear R&D was conducted by the Department of Energy. And some of our "foreign aid" is directed toward nations with whom we have military alliances -- not necessarily nations that have the greatest need for assistance.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:51 PM

6. Medicare gets approximately 42% of it's expendure from federal general revenue

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 08:29 PM

7. So wait. Do I have these numbers right?

Medicare gets 410B from the general fund, and the total federal budget is 3.7 trillion. So that would be about 11%. Where is my mistake in that? Even if you put it in, it isn't 14%.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Squinch (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:34 PM

9. Just pure speculation on my part, but maybe the Federal Government "borrowed" from the

Medicare Trust Fund as it did the Social Security Trust Fund and it is having to make payments to restore that since the baby boomer retirement is happening. Anything there?

Sam

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:58 AM

10. Chart #2 will never (EVER) appear on Fox News

You and your god-damned accuracy!

Harumph!!

Yes, I used to exclamation points there to show my utter disdain...

And ellipses to indicate that I had something more to say, even though I don't.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread