Democrat. Democratic. Whatever.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

Last edited Wed Oct 26, 2016, 10:59 PM - Edit history (1)

I don't care if you mix up the usage of Democrat and Democratic. I'm just glad you are here to support Democrats and Hillary Clinton. I come here because it is nice to be around other Democrats. Republicans are getting scarier by the day. It is nice to have this place as a shelter from them. I probably would have gone crazy without this site. Democrat. Democratic. Democrazy.

[Dem2]

1. Better watch out!

Folks are gonna start calling you a "Republic"



/s

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

2. Uh-oh

Maybe I'll get thrown in Grammar jail.

[The Wielding Truth]

3. Relax. Glad you're here. Remember you are a Democrat and this is Democratic Underground.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

7. Yeah, I got it.

[still_one]

4. The reason we are the DEMOCRATIC party, and NOT the "democrat" party, is because that is a

characterization used by right wing republicans to slur the Democratic party, and the Democrats who support the Democratic party. It is used to infer that the Democratic party is NOT Democratic

republicans DO NOT tell the Democratic party what it should be called, and their not so cleaver way to try and change the vernacular will not work

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

5. Yeah, I already read the other thread.

Thanks, but to me this is something silly to fret about. Plus, I don't think all the people that use that term are trying to slur the democratic (or democrat) party.

[still_one]

11. not sure what thread you are talking about, and obviously you haven't listened to the rants of

michele bachmann and others of that ideology, that go out of their way to use that terminology to describe the Democratic party, but if I hear someone refer to the Democratic party as the "Democrat" party, I am going to correct them

The name of the party is the Democratic Party, not the "democrat" party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_(epithet)

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

15. This one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2545981

I try not to listen to Michelle Bachman. That is a waste of my time. I just don't get what the sensitivity is on this Democrat versus Democratic thing. I'm rather surprised that could get anyone all worked up. Honestly, I think most people that are mixing up the words don't mean anything negative by it.

[still_one]

19. Thanks for the link. The wiki I posted has to be copied and pasted in the URL because the

the parenthesis do not hyperlink correctly in DU. This gives some perspective why there is a sensitivity, and will agree with one thing, it depends on the context

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_(epithet)

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

29. The sensitivity to

"Democrat Party" is that the usage show that the person saying it is either ignorant or deliberately insulting. One usage is forgivable, but once you've been corrected, unless your intent is to be insulting, please say "Democratic Party".

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

36. So why correct anyone on it?

People on here really get hung up on minor details sometimes. I don't think Democrat Party comes close to being insulting. Democrats need to have thicker skin than that.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

50. Because most of us want to correct the person if the usage is from ignorance.

And let them know if we've been insulted.

Simple as that.

Relevant story: My my sister's kids were young I once asked her why she didn't correct them when they said things like "Me and Timmy want some ice cream" (rather than the correct "Timmy and I&quot . Her response was that they'd simply pick up the correct usage because they'd here it from her. Guess what? None of them picked up the correct usage.

Sometimes actual correction is a good idea.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

70. OK, you are talking about correcting children

that is way different than doing that to adults.

I would certainly correct my children on how they speak, but I wouldn't dare to do that to any adult.

[metroins]

52. I agree with you

Who cares and grow up.

[PatSeg]

53. No, it is not silly

When most of us hear someone say "Democrat party", we assume that person is a republican or a highly illiterate person, but usually the former. The misuse of "Democrat" has been used to denigrate the Democratic party by changing our language. It is not silly.

[Ms. Toad]

75. That's excatly the problem

You assume the use is a "highly illiteratee person" or a Republican - and apparently both are bad.

There are many people I know, including lifelong democrats and pioneers for peace and social justice, who are apparently not worthy to be part of this community because they don't speak well enough to please you.

As a party, we have long had solid blue collar roots, but currently run the risk of alienating many in that group. Look at what's going on in Ohio, and what group of people it is that may tip the scales for Trump. The elitist assumption in your response is exactly what troubles me about this "Democrat party" witchhunt. We purport to advocate for justice and social equality issues and treating all people equally, but don't dare misspell anything or fail to use correct grammar, because that's a sure sign that you're a Republican. No one that stupid/uneducated/careless could possibly be a Democrat.

Just because some idiot Republicans are needling us is no reason to kick loyal, but perhaps less educated, Democrats in the teeth.

[Cakes488]

80. Agreed...this turns folks off to liberals in general n/t

[PatSeg]

84. You know

If someone is illiterate or poorly educated and they say "Democrat party", I would understand and not hold that against them. I absolutely am not an elitist. But when very well educated people dumb down the language for political purposes, I find that offensive and irritating.

I am sorry if you thought I was denigrating people who have had a limited education. Some of the best people I've known fall into that category and I counted many of them as friends. If college educated republicans using 'Democrat' as an adjective doesn't bother you, then so be it. Obviously, it bothers a lot of us.

[Ms. Toad]

86. The problem is that when you (and others on DU)

make statements that declare that only Republicans and very illiterate people sat Democrat party - or when it is used as a troll-divining-rod (as many others have suggested), it tells people who have spoken that way all of their lives (literate or not) that they are not welcome here.

The fact that you are friends with people with limited education can't counteract the statements you make publicly that declares that you do look at them with suspicion and disdain. I'm not in this particular "invisible other" category, but I am in enough that I know all too well how it feels when people make derrogatory comments about me without being aware that I'm who they are talking about - and I know I'm not really welcome, even if when I make my presence known they say that I am.

[PatSeg]

87. Until republicans started

using "Democrat" as an adjective, I can honestly say I had never heard it used that way anywhere and I've lived in many parts of the country, among people of diverse backgrounds. I am sincerely surprised to see such a backlash here at Democratic Underground, from Democrats.

Learn something new every day.

[LanternWaste]

69. You appear to confuse "be aware of" with "fret."

You appear to confuse "be aware of" with "fret."

[WyLoochka]

74. Not "silly" at all

The misuse is deliberate. It is used by Republicans in order to make Democrats look stupid.

It was a sort of "bet" by Gingrich that the Republicans could lead stupid Democrats to a de facto change in the name of their party from The Democratic Party to the Democrat Party.

It is deeply insulting to have a Democrat on here falling in line with Gingrich just as he predicted would happen if the Republicans would only continue to use this slur. He thought that Democrats would eventually go right along with Republicans to adopt the slur and start using the insulting term to describe themselves.

It is a very big deal. I burn every time I see or hear a Democrat use it. We need to fight every single dirty trick. We need to refuse to use a term that was specifically designed to insult us, mischaracterize us and make us look stupid.

[Ms. Toad]

76. Seriously?

I've known Democrats who have been calling it the Democrat Party since I was a child, in the 60s. This is not something Gingrich dreamed up to make Democrats look stupid.

That said, Gingrich is politically saavy enough to know when he's found a hot button and to keep pushing it. Far better to ignore his taunts than to adopt his characterization of it and make the good, life-long Democrats who may not be as well educated as you feel they are no longer welcome in this party because they are too stupid to measure up to your high standards (or, even worse, to silence their voices by making them fear being attacked for how they express the important things we need to hear).

[PatSeg]

85. Thank you

That was very well said.

Of all the insults that Gingrich's party threw at Democrats, somehow that one irritates me the most. Such a smug, arrogant little jerk.

[okaawhatever]

8. I have never heard that and I've lived in red states most of my life and communicate regularly with

Republicans. Of course, I had no idea "international bankers" was bigots way of saying Jews.

Most people I know have no idea, they just use bad grammar.

[still_one]

12. Where did I say anything about red or blue states. Maybe you don't get out much

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_(epithet)

make sure and copy the entire link

As for your other comment, things depend on context, and I have heard Jews referred to in a lot of terms, with a lot of negative connotations, including international bankers

http://archive.adl.org/special_reports/control_of_fed/print.html

[okaawhatever]

23. I was just saying that I hadn't heard that slur used, which is odd considering I have lived in

red states. One has a greater probability of hearing a Democratic slur in a red state vs. blue state. I mentioned the international bankers thing because there was a Trump tweet in the news last week because it was considered anti-Semitic. I read it several times and reviewed different media sources trying to figure out what the anti-Semitic part was. I had no idea about the international banker thing.

But I do get out frequently, thanks for your concern.

[duffyduff]

10. Sometimes people make simple typos.

It happens.

[still_one]

20. That isn't what I am referring to

[duffyduff]

31. I know what you are referring to. n/t

[still_one]

45. Let me phrase it this way, of course it depends on context also.

[Coyotl]

6. Democrat Underground vs. Democratic Underground = dead vs. alive

Does that settle the argument or what?

On edit. O.K., according to Trump, both of them vote the same.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

9. Dead Or Alive

Remember them from the 80's? "You spin me right round..."

I don't know if there is an argument. I just think we look a bit snooty since we have a long thread about the usage of Democrat versus Democratic. Whatever. I guess that's the crowd here. I just think that is the kind of thing Republicans use to call us elitists.

[Coyotl]

14. Grammar matters. Like the difference between Republicans and Democrats matters.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

21. It's not everything.

There are other things to know in this world. You can have bad grammar and be a Democrat. You can have bad grammar and be a Republican. Let's not scare away the Democrats who aren't so great with grammar. I'd like to see their posts too.

[The Wielding Truth]

46. It's not "Democrats who aren't so great with grammar". It's a change brought about by disrespect.

Last edited Thu Oct 27, 2016, 02:40 PM - Edit history (1)

Not originally by democrats but by the Right Wing years ago. I think during W's administration they called us DemoRat Party and that's why it stings. It's the intentional erosion of our name. Minor yet not minor. Implying that we aren't deserving of our basic tenet of democracy.

Like boy or girl for adults or other demeaning titles. It can be ignored but it should be corrected or we will let this small identity be determined not by us but by those who want to slight us.

[Coyotl]

49. ^^ Winner ^^

[athena]

56. Exactly!

When someone disrespectfully gives you a label or a nickname you don't like, and insists on calling you by that name, it is not "elitist" to insist that people not call you by that label or nickname.

Your analogy with the words "boy" and "girl" is spot-on. We cannot let others decide what we will be called; we have to draw the line somewhere.

[truebluegreen]

68. er, um--should be "implying", not "inferring"

Speaker implies; hearer infers.

[The Wielding Truth]

91. Thanks, truebluegreen. I'll fix it.

[truebluegreen]

95. And, I forgot to say, excellent post.

[The Wielding Truth]

96. Thanks again. I'm not a great writer so that means a lot.

[Ms. Toad]

81. Except that it's not a change. It is a heightened awareness

to a manner of speaking by many Democrats that has existed at least since the 60s (I suspect longer, but I can't claim a personal memory farther back than the 60s).

Don't let your thin skin needle you into demonizing members of our own party who have never (long before "DemoRat&quot been so great with grammar.

If you don't believe it's demonizing, look at this thread and the other thread on this topic, and put yourself in the shoes of a 60+ year old life-long, likely blue-collar, Democrat who has always called it the Democrat Party - and ask yourself if you would feel welcome here (or able to speak freely - because you are now hyper-conscious of whether you are going to be ridiculed, or called a troll, because you are not as well-spoken as others).

[3catwoman3]

34. That is a great little sign.

Reminiscence of the difference between the meanings of "Eats Shoots and Leaves," and "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves.

What a difference a comma/apostrophe makes.

[Coyotl]

42. Proper punctuation can save lives.

[okaawhatever]

24. I believe the lead singer for that band died last week. I just googled it. The singer's name is Pete

Burns and he did die at the age of 57 years old two days ago.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

28. Holy cow

I did not know that. Wow, that is weird. There's been a few times when I have thought of someone I haven't thought of in long time and then I find out they just died. It's kind of a strange coincidence.

[okaawhatever]

30. Yes, and I'm glad you brought it up because I rememberd Dead or Alive but couldn't remember

any of their songs. I loved, you spin me right round. I spent my youth dancing to that song in the 80's. LOL

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

33. I love that song too.

It's such a fun song to sing along with. I have it on MP3. It reminds me of the Wedding Singer movie whenever I hear it because the movie starts off with that song.

[Coyotl]

44. "Why's it so hard?" has great lyrics.

https://play.spotify.com/artist/5WWSL6rElJeUk3Uc1S2RyD

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

59. Wish I could hear it.

I can't sign in for some reason.

[LanternWaste]

71. I suppose it depends on whether one has masted grade school grammar or not...

Accuracy of language usage may be considered to be elitist, or may be considered simple grade-school grammar. I suppose it depends on whether one has masted grade school grammar or not. Whatever. I guess that's the crowd you hang out with. I just think it's the kind of thing the sub-literate use to complain complain about...

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

72. The crowd I hang out with? LOL!

We don't get to pick our families.

[cwydro]

92. Masted?

[ananda]

13. You have to understand that there are some here ..

.. including me .. who remember how all this started,
and it was ugly.

The Reeps started saying "Democrat" instead of "Democratic"
because of the way it sounds, and the Freepers took it up to
always and continually accent the word "rat."

The adjective will ALWAYS be DEMOCRATIC for me.

[Coyotl]

16. With this being the most pertinent meme. But I repeat myself.

[okaawhatever]

25. That's hilariousl. I can see morans getting tripped up with the last one. nt

[GulfCoast66]

38. Well, your experience is not everyones

It was only when I began lurking here that I learned that using the term Democrat was some kind of slur that signaled a right wing troll. Because I do not think I ever heard my grandparents who were all members of the Democratic party use the term Democratic.

They said democrat. As in I am a democrat. Or I am in the democrat party. And they were all raised dirt poor. Two of them did not finish elementary school and the 'rich' side of the family had 2 high school graduates.

They were working folks and they all created a much better life for their kids and grandkids. And they would have laughed in your face if you had told them that they were using incorrect grammar when talking about the party that enabled them to remove themselves from poverty.

So let us worry less about grammar and more about policy.


Have a nice evening.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

73. Thank you :)

This is exactly what I mean.

[GulfCoast66]

18. Thank you!

I have been on pins and needles ever since I joined about this. Getting called out for saying democrat party.

Now, screw it. My grandfather always said Democrat party and he was a good democrat. If the way I vote is not good enough for you and you want to police my grammar on DU, well let's just all vote for Hillary!

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

22. Right, I've heard plenty of good Democrats

say Democrat party. I'm not going to criticize someone over a grammar issue, unless they happen to be my kid.

[okaawhatever]

26. Glad you're here! nt

[liberal N proud]

27. They are not interchangeable

I failed English in the 8th grade but even I know the difference.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

32. Congrats on knowing the difference

What is this supposed to mean for anyone that says "Democrat Party"? Are they a bad Democrat? Are they an inferior life form for not being as good at grammar? Should the grammar police arrest them?

I just think the grammar policing is a bit mean spirited and unnecessary. We have much bigger problems than Democrat versus Democratic.

[liberal N proud]

48. Grammar police have long been active on DU, I don't see it as a bad thing.

Grammar in this country has done nothing but go down hill as we use more texting and twittering (if that is what it is called).

IT has improved my overall writing both on line and professionally.

[frazzled]

35. Technocrat, bureaucrat, autocrat

All the "crats" that have negative connotations. That is why Gingrich instructed all Republicans to use the term exclusively and widely when discussing the other party in public appearances. It was a big deal back in the early 90s. It reeks of the Contract for America.

Maybe some here are too young to remember all that, but for those of us who do, it is something highly offensive and pretty close to a cardinal sin.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

37. Well, we are called Democrats

I've never found that to be negative. Why would it be any more negative to call the party the Democrat party when we are already calling everyone in the party a Democrat?

[The Wielding Truth]

47. Because it's not our name. One is a noun and one is an adjective. We are made up of Democrats who

believe in democracy. We don't believe in "Democrat". Our tenet is to be democratic.

It would not be so annoying if it weren't used as Democ-rat Party

The Democratic Party is truly our party's name. Is it a convenient slight by the Right Wing or is it too complex for them.

Would you mind being called Zing Zing Zing? No. that's not what you named yourself. Nuf said.I

would not do that unless I wished you to be uncomfortable. That is how I feel when I hear Democrat Party.

I will not mind if an older person has fondly called it Democrat all his or her life, but that is rare.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

40. I was alive in the 90's too.

I don't remember this being a big deal ever. I was a teenager then, but my dad was a life long Democrat. I never once heard him rage over the party being called the Democrat Party and raging over stupid shit was (as still is) my dad's forte.

[GusBob]

39. I tend to agree

I don't really see what the big deal is. It doesn't bother me what lexicon one uses

If it is something they say to irk us, and one lets it be a big bother, they win.

My grammar punctuation and spelling is for shit anyways, so nail me to the cross sideways.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

41. Good point, we shouldn't let the small stuff bother us

I think people usually aren't trying to be offensive when they say Democrat Party too because really there are a lot of blatantly offensive things people could say and wouldn't they just come out and say the really offensive stuff if that is what they meant? Trump and his supporters certainly don't mince words.

[VOX]

43. "Democrat" is never an adjective; if used as such, it's a "gang sign"...

If you're a Repug and use the grammatically correct Democratic (Party, candidate, etc.), your base won't hear the dog whistle.

This "code" dates back to the Joe McCarthy era.

[bmstee01]

51. I like the label

Progressive

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

67. I do too :) n/t

[athena]

54. The question is not whether you care.

The question is whether others care, and the thread you are objecting to shows that plenty of people do care.

This is a forum that values civility and empathy. When someone states clearly that something offends them, and you go on and on about how you don't care about that thing, all you are doing is displaying a horrible lack of consideration for other people's feelings and wishes.

I am sorry, but I have had it with this culture of "political incorrectness" in this country. Being rude and insensitive is not something to be proud of or to brag about. There are many Democrats out there who are offended by the misuse of the word "Democrat" as an adjective. I am one of them. If you are a considerate and empathetic human being, you will change your usage to avoid offending all of those people, regardless of whether the usage offends you.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

57. Isn't is rather offensive

to correct other adults on their grammar? I've always found that to be offensive. Unless they are asking for your help to correct a paper or you are their teacher in an English class, I just don't think that is something that should be done. I thought the dems wanted to have a big tent? We come across as uppity elitists when we get all up in arms about this kind of stuff.

[athena]

58. Nobody is correcting anybody's grammar.

Telling someone that the use of "Democrat" as an adjective is a slur is not correcting their grammar. It is informing them of something they appear to be unaware of. Indeed, in a case like this, it is more condescending not to say anything and let the person go around offending people without even realizing it than to point out that the use of the word "Democrat" as an adjective was invented by Republicans as a way of being disrespectful of the Democratic Party and is considered offensive by a large number of Democrats.

If a friend of yours from another country used the n-word, not realizing that it is extremely offensive to a large number of people, would you not correct them? Would you let them use that word because those who are offended by that word should just get over themselves?

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

60. I'm not offended

I've been a Democrat my whole life. I get the feeling the only democrats that are offended by Democrat Party are ones on this site. Any of them that I would come across in real life would not give a rat's ass about this. I'm will try to ask some Democrats about this around here sometime whenever I get the chance.

[athena]

63. Once again, this is not about you.

Just because you are not offended by something does not mean no one else is offended.

If you have a friend whose name is David but he goes by the nickname of Dave, then you know that he is not offended by being called "Dave". You may, however, meet another David who makes it clear that he prefers to be called David and not Dave. It would be rude to insist on calling this second person "Dave" against his wishes, and when he corrects you, tell him that he should be OK with being called "Dave" because others named David don't mind being called "Dave".

Whether or not a given Democrat is offended by the usage of the word "Democrat" as an adjective depends completely on whether they realize that this usage was invented by Republicans and is still used by them as a slur. The point of a web site like this one is to inform others. Knowledge is power. When a person learns what "Democrat Party" really means, they will be more aware of how it is used and misused in the media.

By objecting to this, you are basically saying that we should never inform others of anything, lest we offend them. And you are effectively saying that we should roll over and allow the Republican Party to decide what our party should be called.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

65. This thread is about me and the other people that agree with me

That's fine that you disagree. I'm trying to say that this isn't an important issue to all Democrats.

[Hoyt]

55. I agree. As long as person using it is a GOPer, I'm not going to correct their ignorance.

It's just not that big a deal in the scheme of racism, bigotry, warmongering, etc.

[yallerdawg]

61. It's easy to see an intentional slight in context.

"Democrat Party" can be a dead giveaway.

If anyone wants to work on improving their spelling and grammar, good for them.

Understand them working on MY spelling and grammar is very much NOT appreciated. It's an attack on the messenger, ignoring the message. We got much bigger issues!

[Sugarcoated]

64. When someone says Democrat party I stop reading.

It's an insult.

[JoePhilly]

66. + 1

[TeacherB87]

78. We just want people to stop copying Newt Gingrich and using adjectives as nouns.

Both should be reasonable on a liberal forum such as this. Republicans started misusing "Democrat" over a decade ago as a swipe at us, so it doesn't make sense for us to be doing it today. Furthermore, "Democrat" is a noun, not an adjective. The adjective is "Democratic." I know usage is not a big issue to some, but you can't blame some of us for being annoyed by this.

[Cakes488]

82. I have never heard of this being used as a slur nor the Gingrich backstory and for

someone who doesn't know all the backstory/details I would never think it was a slur...I would think that someone just used the wrong form of the word...to which I say "who cares"??? If it's supposed to be a slur it's really not very good one and I would stop giving Gingrich any credit for anything..including this.

[SalviaBlue]

88. Now you know - its a slur.

You can learn something new every day... if you pay attention.




PS: Gingrich should be credited with all of the evil and destructive things he has done to this country. Just because you choose not to look at something doesn't mean its not there.

[Cakes488]

89. Well I think that saying it's a slur is STUPID..so now you know.

[SalviaBlue]

90. Willful ignorance is

the worst kind of ignorance.

Make your own reality, ignore the truth. Good luck with that.

[Cakes488]

93. And Willful Righteousness is the worst kind of righteousness not to mention annoying.

[Sugarcoated]

94. Put him on ignore. I am

[lakeguy]

83. it's originated as a slur and should be pointed out

whether the person who said it meant it or not. there are many other slurs i could list here that people would be upset about so it's not just a grammar thing.

[ibegurpard]

97. Using Democrat as an adjective

Has always been a tell for right wing propaganda. You will continue to be called out for it so if you don't like that then don't do it.

[One of the 99]

99. You sound like a

right wing troll.