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Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:09 AM

How Karl Rove was thwarted from fixing election by cyber dudes

http://occupyforaccountability.org/index.php?q=node/1075

sent to me by Ohio State professor

42 replies, 5014 views

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Reply How Karl Rove was thwarted from fixing election by cyber dudes (Original post)
medeak Nov 2012 OP
ewagner Nov 2012 #1
BlueStreak Nov 2012 #2
Coyotl Nov 2012 #16
Cobalt Violet Nov 2012 #29
UCmeNdc Nov 2012 #3
medeak Nov 2012 #4
Denzil_DC Nov 2012 #10
Howler Nov 2012 #5
medeak Nov 2012 #6
Coyotl Nov 2012 #14
Orangepeel Nov 2012 #7
LukeFL Nov 2012 #20
jeff47 Nov 2012 #27
LukeFL Nov 2012 #30
jeff47 Nov 2012 #36
LukeFL Nov 2012 #37
jeff47 Nov 2012 #38
LukeFL Nov 2012 #39
LukeFL Nov 2012 #21
JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #8
UCmeNdc Nov 2012 #12
JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #17
Coyotl Nov 2012 #15
JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #18
juajen Nov 2012 #34
UCmeNdc Nov 2012 #9
JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #22
Kingofalldems Nov 2012 #11
Coyotl Nov 2012 #13
freshwest Nov 2012 #40
HooptieWagon Nov 2012 #19
Comrade_McKenzie Nov 2012 #23
smorkingapple Nov 2012 #24
hexola Nov 2012 #25
Botany Nov 2012 #26
Coyotl Nov 2012 #33
jeff47 Nov 2012 #28
medeak Nov 2012 #31
LukeFL Nov 2012 #41
medeak Nov 2012 #32
jeff47 Nov 2012 #35
Coyotl Nov 2012 #42

Response to medeak (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:18 AM

1. One.

Just give me ONE PIECE of solid evidence.

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Response to medeak (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:18 AM

2. That sounds like BS

"Don't do it again or else we'll turn you in" What kind of nonsense is that?

If they actually did this operation, then they will have no trouble producing documentation that could be used to prosecute the perpetrators.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 03:16 PM

16. We've been saying that for weeks now

but new threads keep popping up as if people don't read what has been discussed. Gee I wonder why?

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 11:18 AM

29. Because some of us aren't going to bullied into speaking up. n/t

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Response to medeak (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:39 AM

3. The FBI should investigate

Even if this is a remote possibility the FBI should put a top computer specialist in charge of an investigation.
Why?

To see if there is a remote possibility that these allegations are true.

There needs to be a report done for the record since these allegations can actually have consequences for the computer security for the entire nation.

Can people gain access to voting software and change election outcomes? This question includes both Karl Rove and his people as well as ANON.

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Response to UCmeNdc (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:42 AM

4. link says info given to FBI

hope it's investigated.

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Response to medeak (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 12:03 PM

10. The article's not clear

but it reads to me like they just passed on the "anonymous" letter, which I'd imagine the FBI already knew about.

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Response to medeak (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:49 AM

5. The article has even hit the Tech magazines.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Anonymous-Hactivist-Karl-Rove-Fox-News-Election,19217.html


EVERY techie I've talked to said its quite plausible with the information that Anon has givin so far. And the techies I know All work for the goverment.

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Response to medeak (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 03:12 PM

14. Lots more here on Thom Hartmann

Thom Hartmann: Why it's not crazy to think Anonymous stopped Karl Rove From Stealing the Election P2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101781222

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Response to medeak (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 11:06 AM

7. The premise of this attempted spy movie doesn't hold up

The name ORCA sounds like something from a James Bond story, so people are tring to make it into something like that. It was just a badly designed app that was supposed to send the names of voters back to a call center.

Old fashioned poll watching operations use somebody with a list of names and runners who come get the list and bring it to a phone bank so supporters who haven't voted can be nagged into it. ORCA was supposed to do that electronically.

If Rove had the ability to hack voting machines or software or tabulators, why would he do it through the phones of a bunch of volunteers?

Near the end of this story, there is a paragraph that says something like "one thing that's not clear from the letter is the relationship between cyber manipulation and ORCA." It's not clear because the premise is dumb.

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Response to Orangepeel (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:56 PM

20. I know it sounds like a movie

But ORCA is the name of the software Romney purchased to have a strong GOTV efforts. Benefits avcoubnts have been published that Romney campaign obtained this software system to have work and activated on November 6 ONLY.

Never heard of a party spend so much money in one system to have it only work for one day.

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Response to LukeFL (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 11:05 AM

27. So...you think parties expect to heavily use their GOTV software on the day after election day? (nt)

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #27)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 12:04 PM

30. What About weeks before?

Esecially on early vote days? All this ORCA thing rounds fishy to me And looks like The dirty games KArl rove Will pay.

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Response to LukeFL (Reply #30)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 09:22 PM

36. Too many people to call.

The vast majority still vote on election day. Calling everyone who hasn't voted early would be a ton of calls, and irritate a bunch of people who were planning to vote on election day.

The Obama team used a similar system, just much better designed so that it didn't catch fire and fall over on election day.

All this ORCA thing rounds fishy to me

Nah, they're mammals.

(And in case you're wondering, it was named Orca because a component of Team Obama's software was called Narwhal, and Orcas are one of the few things that prey on narwhals.)

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #36)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 09:52 PM

37. Lol! The Obama camp made almost

8000 calls in two weeks before election day.

And yes that name sounds like a mammal

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Response to LukeFL (Reply #37)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 10:12 PM

38. 8000 calls, over 100M voters. Yeah, they were calling everyone. (nt)

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #38)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 10:53 PM

39. Just in the state of NV alone. So yes, callingt

To have strong GOTV efforts take planning, commitment from mass volunteers ( like me) and advanced technological software for support
Things we had at our disposal.

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Response to medeak (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 11:13 AM

8. Ohio's Diebold machines are not connected to a network.

Each machine counts votes independently and prints each vote on a paper roll as it's cast. The voter cannot remove the machine access card until his/her vote is completely printed out before them. Not everybody watches their vote printing out, but many do.

The machines are returned to each county's BOE for manual upload and the paper trail is delivered along with them from each precinct in a steel lock box with registered tamper proof seals by two poll workers, one from each party. They are then stored at each individual county's board for a couple years in case the election is contested. Hand written log books that must match the paper roll tallies are signed by the four precinct workers (two from each party) and stored as well.

There may be some ineffective and inefficient way to cheat a few votes somewhere along the line, but it would be a logistical nightmare, and it's too easy to get caught now. That's why Ohio Republicans focused on suppressing votes in democrat-heavy districts this year, not some science fiction based electronic hacking.

Every conspiracy theory is based in conspiracy fact, but there's always one or two puzzle pieces that have to be beat in with a hammer to make them fit, or they're just discarded from the discussion.

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Response to UCmeNdc (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 09:39 PM

17. Great soundtrack!

Last edited Fri Nov 23, 2012, 03:39 AM - Edit history (1)

In 2004 it was widely suspected that the electronic Diebold machines were tampered with to re-elect GW Bush. Republican governor Bob Taft and his lackey Sec State Ken Blackwell deleted those machines as quickly as possible in what may have been a criminal act. We'll never know.

When newly elected Democrat Ted Strickland took office in January, one of his first acts was to demand Diebold add a secure paper trail to the machines. Diebold initially balked at this requirement, claiming the technology wasn't available, When faced with a termination of contract, they wisely relented. Ohio has been using the new model since 2006 (remember the '08 election?).

The machine in he video is apparently the old Taft era "Vote Swiper TS" model. That's probably why they were able to get their hands on one to test. I doubt any county elections board would say "sure, take this one, we won't need it until the next election". The new model (Diebold Accuvote TSx) has a paper roll that prints out each vote right before the voter's eyes when he hits "cast vote". The voter cannot leave the machine before the printout is finished because the arming card remains locked in until it's done. Think Clockwork Orange.

At the end of that roll (which includes a printed final vote tally) is signed by all four precinct workers (2 Ds and 2 Rs), rolled up into the tamper proof sealed canister and placed in a steel lock box which also gets a registered tamper proof seal at the end of the day. That info is all recorded in the precinct log, which accompanies the paper rolls to the county BOE, driven there by 1 D and 1 R. At the BOE, the paper cannisters are stored for (I believe) two years in case there's a dispute or recount. The machines are reset for the next election. All election results are kept only on those paper rolls, and a recount would make the machine tallies irrelevent because the state would be reading each vote exactly as it was printed that day.

Now let's examine the conspiracy theory: Network transmitters have to be inserted in every machine in every one (or most) of Ohio's 88 counties. The logistics require quite a staff already, but not many people have the clearance to walk in and work on our voting machines. At this point, people who are accountable are really putting their asses on the line.

Add to that the men in the middle. The transmitters, which according to the video, have a range of a half mile. Every precinct will need someone outside to flip vote tallies (which should match the printed ballot the voter is reading). Now the circle of loyal plumbers is considerably larger- probably more than 50- and no one better talk. Not a word. There wasn't a chorus of voters this year screaming that their vote wasn't printing out the right candidate, nor has there ever been since the paper printout has been installed.

What if Diebold put the transmitters in the machines back in 2006 when they were delivered? They could get millions in benefits year after year if they get away with it. What they're gambling on that is... everything. The name Diebold would be known for insecurity, the stock would be de-listed, the multi million dollar contracts would be canceled, and someone at the top is going to prison. Those machines would be like hard evidence sitting in every one of the 88 counties just waiting to blow up in their corporate face (corporations have faces, my friend). I don't think this scenario is likely at all.

I work the polls in one of the most democratic counties in the state (2:1 Dem) Ohio, and I have every bit of faith in these machines, as well as every election here since 2006. The redundant steps taken for security and paper accounts is incredible.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 03:14 PM

15. I'm sorry, but reality is not allowed to intervene in conspiracy theories

You realize that the people who believe this stuff never consider the real operations in the physical world

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 09:45 PM

18. All conspiracy theories are based on conspiracy facts.

Unfortunately, almost every conspiracy theory has a couple puzzle pieces that just don't fit and have to be hammered in with a mallet. In the end, you have an imperfect picture of the perfect crime.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #15)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 07:34 PM

34. Ahh, contraire! I believe I will take this one to the bank.

There is nothing I would like better than to believe that we have the voting machine problem conquered. Now we just have to worry about voter suppression. Forward!

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Response to medeak (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 11:22 AM

9. Not all voting machines in Ohio are Diebold machines






Hart is another company. Listen to this report. Logs of election activity can be changed with these machines used in Ohio.

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Response to UCmeNdc (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 04:14 AM

22. All Ohio electronic voting machines have a paper trail

While there was some question about the 2004 election (the 1st year for the electronic voting here in Ohio) the newly elected democrat governor Ted Strickland demanded all machines use a paper trail to confirm the count. This has been the standard since 2006 (remember '08 when Ohio went for Obama?). Many of those who claim Rove had a "man in the middle" hack or some RF vote flipping are using news reports from 2004.

Some, like the Diebold Accuvote TSx print the vote right before the voter's eyes as it is cast. The voter cannot leave the machine before the printing is completed.

Others, like several models of the optiscan by ES&S use a hand marked ballot that is scanned into the machine.

The Hart machine is also an optical scanner type machine that requires the voter return his hand marked ballot to the poll worker.

In each case, the paper ballot is stored at the county BOE for (I think) two years in case of a dispute or recount. In all cases, the machine is reset for the next election and becomes irrelevant. If someone hacks the machines and alters the digital count, the verified paper trail is accountability that cannot be altered.

If there's any credibility that Rove or someone else changed the digital count, one only needs do a hand count audit at one suspect county and get probable cause that the election has been subjected to fraud. That sounds like a very high likelihood that the perpetrators of such a foolish plan will be caught, and even Rove isn't that arrogant. I won't even go into the logistics and large number of plumbers needed to visit and alter every voting machine in each of Ohio's 88 counties. The number of people with the clearance to drop in at a county BOE and work on their machines is so few that someone would really have to put their ass on the line for Karl Rove.

Here is a link to the three types of voting machines in Ohio and how they work. You'll notice that in every case the paper ballot is returned to the poll worker or rolled up into the machine to be removed at the end of the day, then locked in a steel box for return to the county BOE when the polls close:
http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/Upload/elections/votingsystems.aspx?page=25056#

None of the machines are connected to a network for internet hacking. There's no login and a wall outlet is the only connection in every case.

Karl Rove is smart and somewhat evil, but he's not a Batman villain. That's why he focused on misleading commercials and suppression.

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Response to medeak (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 01:38 PM

11. Kick and Rec for all the zombies

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Response to medeak (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 03:10 PM

13. Oh man, not this crap again

Jesus Fucking Christ = Restoring Reason to Election Integrity Madness
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021851707



It is a new affliction, stinging the crazies on both ends of the political spectrum, and they have gone wild bull-horning their beliefs, lack of evidence be damned. The election fraud meme used to force voter ID laws is the supreme example. Now, a post-election mania has filled public fora and cooler minds are having to waste time damping the fires of irrationality. Marcos says it best so far:

Anonymous claims it stopped Karl Rove from hacking the vote

Jesus Fucking Christ
Rove had nothing to do with Orca. This is idiotic. As is this stupid claim that Anonymous stopped anything.
I swear to fucking god, the "Rove was going to steal the election" bullshit is patently ridiculous. And, in fact, it's CT.
So warning here, where people might or might not see it -- I will wield the ban-hammer ruthlessly against anyone who further spreads this shit.


by kos on Sat Nov 17, 2012 - http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1162678/48471137#c642


Now this in an e-mail from Bev Harris:

OF DIVERSIONS, FABRICATIONS, AND RED HERRINGS -

My e-mail seems to have two recurring themes lately, each from the opposite side of the political spectrum. It goes like this:
"Hey, have you seen this? Anonymous claims to have hacked Karl Rove's intended election manipulation."
And this:
"Are you doing anything about the rampant voter fraud that put Obama in office?"

1. The alleged "hack" by Anonymous may or may not have been real, but if it was, a careful reading indicates that it was not a hack of voting machines, but more akin to the odious phone-jamming scheme used by a Republican operative in New Hampshire some years back. Whether you wear a blue or red political shirt, this kind of attack is nothing to brag about. It involves interfering with get out the vote efforts, and regardless of which side is working on get out the vote, obstructing such efforts is uncool.

There is no credible proof that this Anonymous hack even happened. If it did, it violated the principle of encouraging political participation. We have to be careful about stories such as this, because they can divert important work on election transparency into chasing phantoms.

2. The "rampant voter fraud" claim diverts attention from where wholesale tampering actually takes place. If you plan to rig an election, you do it as an inside job, not with alleged busloads of people casting multiple votes, and not with herds of voter impersonators fooling election judges.

You do it with absentees, you do it by manipulating who can vote, you do it by altering the voting machine counts, you do it by thwarting chain of custody. In other words, it's not the outsiders -- the voters -- where the focus needs to be. Let's keep our eye on the ball. Who handled the ballots? Who watched? Who programmed the machines? Was the list loaded into electronic pollbooks the real one? Was the count interrupted for some reason? Did any ballots disappear? Were people prevented from voting? How do we know that the ballots said to have been mailed in are the same ones that were counted, and how do we know they were put into the pool by real voters rather than an elections worker?

We need to step away from our favorite political candidates to deal with the underlying structural problem. Until we fix transparency problems, actual tampering -- considerably more damaging than anything Anonymous claimed to have done -- will happen over and over.

The real problem that we have to wrap our heads around, educate others about, and solve, is public right to see and authenticate the count.

Germany ruled that the public must be able to see and authenticate every essential step of the election, without need for special expertise, and that no after the fact procedure can be substituted for the right to authenticate the original count.

That is exactly the model we here in the USA need to work towards, but first, we have to help the public understand that public controls over our own elections are the very essence of self-government, and self-government is the basis for all democratic systems.

There are four things the public must be able to see and authenticate:

1) Who can vote (voter list)
2) Who did vote (poll list)
3) Counting of the vote
4) Chain of custody



These are the fundamental issues, and we will restore these to the American public, once we properly identify them and demand these things, with no compromise and no wasting time on side issues, half-measures, or capitulation.

You may ask what you can do to help. I love that question. It's so much better than the passive "what is being done?"

Each major civil rights movement has several stages. We are now moving from the focus group stage, where we have been learning to craft the most accurate description of the problem to be solved, in the most persuasive terms, and into the distribution stage, where we are passing the message -- quite literally -- from person to person to build momentum to help tip the scales in legal and legislative efforts.

So that's what you can do: Learn to discuss election transparency in terms of basic right to self-govern, which is the principle that is the foundation for all democratic systems. To have self-governance, you have to have real, tangible, meaningful transparency.

Specifically, "The public must be able to see and authenticate each essential step of the election, without need for special expertise, and no after-the-fact procedure can be substituted for the right to authenticate the original.

* * * * *

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #13)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 10:54 PM

40. From' the passive "what is being done?"' to saved by magic! Think of all the money spent by OFA.

Last edited Sat Nov 24, 2012, 12:10 AM - Edit history (1)

I guess I should ask for a refund of my donation. If only I'd know the 'white knights' would ride in and take care of democracy for us. Damn, I should have paid more attention to Disney movies.

Even when I was a kid, I didn't expect a hero to arrive to sweep me off my feet and save me. In fact, I was warned by the women in my family to learn, get a job and be prepared to pay my way. Always.

Wow. And all that money, phone canvassing, going to court, standing in line and worry for nothing. We don't have to do anything but 'believe.' And hope the 'cyber dudes' don't decide to swing the next election to the GOP, just 'for the lulz.'

The issue of people who are unaccountable, make threats against the nebulous PTB, reveal the private information of unimportant slobs 'just to prove to the world that they can,' claim both political parties are the same, not worth voting for... saved the vote.

Somehow, this doesn't make sense. It's rather lazy to believe that anyone is coming to rescue us from these crooks, 'just because.' It reminds me of the 'Rapture.' And if you don't believe, see, you're going to be 'Left Behind.'

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Response to medeak (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:26 PM

19. No, it was Batman and Robin who prevented Joker from hacking the vote...

and I have as much "proof" as any of the other conspiracy theorists.

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Response to medeak (Original post)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 07:48 AM

23. Just a bone for the technologically ignorant to chew on... nothing more.

 

It's like a bad script for a network television show.

And the fact that a firewall was used for offense, rather than defense... lol.

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Response to medeak (Original post)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 10:25 AM

24. Folks stop the 9/11 truther shit please!!!

I understand the scar tissue from 2000 and 2004 is still fresh for many of you but stop it. Just stop. Rove is not as powerful as you make him out to be and all you're doing is keeping his relevance alive by coming up with these bizarre conspiracies.

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Response to medeak (Original post)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 10:56 AM

25. I stopped reading at "cyber dudes" (nt)

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Response to medeak (Original post)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 11:04 AM

26. I really did election protection work in Ohio and this story does not pass the smell test to me.

The republicans big "high tech" cyber thing in Ohio was not a unseen vote flipping
operation but a an APP for smart phones that let a person scan and send the posted
voter logs ...... but being stupid they did not know that they were not allowed to do
that so @ the precinct I was watching the republican was kicked out after trying to
use her phone APP.

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Response to Botany (Reply #26)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 04:21 PM

33. The Rs couldn't even get their phone apps to work, but their magical powers were unparalled

It is interesting to go over the DU archives for 2004 and see all the trolls spewing misinformation and misdirecting the inquiries and investigations that went on LIVE in threads with multiple investigators. Now, a bunch of people are posting who have not one iota of knowledge of what has come before here on DU, or who just want to pretend that all that isn't there, true, relevant, etc. I'm reminded of how CT's are used in coverups.

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Response to medeak (Original post)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 11:11 AM

28. You need higher quality professors. (nt)

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 03:59 PM

31. not nice

friend is oncologist with Parkinsons who gives me valuable info for my husband suffering for 11 years.

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Response to medeak (Reply #31)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 11:01 PM

41. DUer thinks he's grandEr than thou

Have you read his/her other posts? Thinks knows it all and dismisses everything like we need to explain or prove to him/her.

Must have a lonely difficult life. Feel sorry for ppl like him/ her.

Superiority complex

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 04:10 PM

32. sorry for vent

have been here a long time and know the powers that be don't like to hear how great this site was long ago with amazing media and bloggers getting info here. But once in awhile I come back to throw something out there and appreciate so much the people that give support or debunk info. Your comment is not helpful in any way.

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Response to medeak (Reply #32)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 09:15 PM

35. You posted a story that's a few weeks old now, has a million other copies

with lots of people pointing out Anon hasn't actually shown that they've done anything. On all the previous iterations of this story.

And you expected....what exactly? That we'd all break out the pitchforks because someone made a claim they've failed to back up?

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #35)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 07:35 AM

42. Perhaps the idea is to keep posting

until one thread gets past critical review and reasoning
Over at Fox, they seemed to think that method works before Nov. 6

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