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Tue Nov 20, 2012, 05:04 PM

Anonymous Didn't "Elect Obama", but may have saved OH from Rove's hackers

This story is admittedly just a string of conjectures at this point, but it has
gotten legs (as evidenced by the number of posts/sources/stories listed below);
and in a sense is still "breaking" as information dribbles out via the InterWebs.

I find it interesting how some on DU seem absolutely horrified at the prospect
that there is any truth to Anon's claim re: hacking into ORCA, etc. to foil Rove's
evil plan to steal OH by insuring that votes in OH were counted and reported
accurately.

It's almost as if these folks believe:
A) that KKKarl Rove would never ever stoop to doing such a dastardly deed,
or
B) that somehow Rove didn't have the deepest pockets in the known Universe
in 2012 to fucking BUY the very best hackers on the planet,
or
C) that the Republican-owned "private" corporations don't really OWN voting and vote-
counting in much of the USA.
or
D) all or several of the above.



Rather than a shit-storm of acrimony and name-calling, I'm hoping that saner DU
heads will prevail, and that we can "take away" from this incident an unwavering
determination to insure that the integrity of voting and vote-counting is restored,
via getting rid of e-voting altogether and replace it with a totally transparent and
verifiable PUBLIC system of voting and vote-counting where PAPER BALLOTS are
used, much like they have in Canada.

Obama himself said "we need to fix that", referring specifically to the exceedingly
long lines at the polls, and by inference to voter suppression and electronic vote-rigging.
I'm speaking up on this, in full-throated support of Obama doing just that.

True, bama didn't even need OH to win this particular election, because it was
a freaking landslide nationwide; but this story about OH is incredibly important
and timely precisely because NOW we DO have some breathing room, NOW we
have sufficient time and public support to REALLY fix our electoral system. With
or without Anonymous, it doesn't matter: what matters is that our system is SO
corrupt, and SO broken that it can now easily be SOLD TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER,
i.e. whoever can pony up the most money to hire the best hackers in the world.


In a way, this fact is why the Anonymous story is so intriguing and so hopeful;
and is why I'm so interested in following it and learning from it. I'd like to hereby
encourage those who take umbrage at the very notion that e-voting is susceptible
to hacking, much less that Rove has hacked it, much less that Anon. intervened
to "save OH for Obama". .. I'd like to encourage you to please stop besmirching
and belittling people who have a legitimate interest in this story, and who want to
keep DU peeps who share that interest, informed about it.

Thank you. That is all.

LINKS to related stories, reports, etc.

Today's story on TRUTH-OUT: "Anonymous, Karl Rove and 2012 Election Fix?"
http://truth-out.org/news/item/12845-anonymous-karl-rove-and-2012-election-fix

The Wonkette story that is frequently referenced on this topic
http://wonkette.com/489966/anonymous-claims-it-stopped-karl-rove-from-hacking-the-election-by-hacking-orca-we-think#more-489966

Fascinating glimpses behind the FOX curtain on election night.
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/11/how-rove-fought-with-fox-over-ohio.html

Interesting post on e-security website about OH, Anon, and Rove on election night.
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/11/anonymous_claim.html

Yet another report on an e-security website about Anon's claims.
http://www.esecurityplanet.com/hackers/anonymous-we-stopped-karl-rove-from-stealing-the-election.html

Rachael Maddow report on vote-rigging in 2012 Primary to elect Mittens
&feature=related

DU OPs on the subject:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251250674
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251234069
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1850942
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1854031

23 replies, 3055 views

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Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply Anonymous Didn't "Elect Obama", but may have saved OH from Rove's hackers (Original post)
99th_Monkey Nov 2012 OP
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #1
99th_Monkey Nov 2012 #2
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #3
99th_Monkey Nov 2012 #6
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #9
99th_Monkey Nov 2012 #12
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #14
99th_Monkey Nov 2012 #15
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #17
99th_Monkey Nov 2012 #18
Coyotl Nov 2012 #4
99th_Monkey Nov 2012 #5
UCmeNdc Nov 2012 #7
Coyotl Nov 2012 #10
UCmeNdc Nov 2012 #11
99th_Monkey Nov 2012 #20
RomneyLies Nov 2012 #8
pnwmom Nov 2012 #13
99th_Monkey Nov 2012 #16
gravity Nov 2012 #19
TroglodyteScholar Nov 2012 #21
99th_Monkey Nov 2012 #22
TroglodyteScholar Nov 2012 #23

Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 05:11 PM

1. People are horrified because a story with less evidentiary support

than Birtherism is getting touted as true or likely true.

The wanker in that web video didn't even know that Orca was a digitized strike list.

Moreover, if they did have the goods on Rove, they'd release it.

This is nothing but a random jerk with a mask making shit up on the Internet.

See Chambers, Dean.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 05:29 PM

2. Which part of this do you disagree with?

"With or without Anonymous, it doesn't matter: what matters is that our system is
SO corrupt, and SO broken that it can now easily be SOLD TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER,
i.e. whoever can pony up the most money to hire the best hackers in the world.
~snip~
Obama himself said "we need to fix that", referring specifically to the exceedingly
long lines at the polls, and by inference to voter suppression and electronic vote-rigging.
I'm speaking up on this, in full-throated support of Obama doing just that. "

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 05:55 PM

3. It hasn't been proven.

Internet rumors about hacking are not proof that widespread hacking has occurred.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 06:07 PM

6. I have NEVER said, or even implied, that anything has been "PROVEN"

Straw Man Alert!!!

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 06:25 PM

9. This language is an unsupported factual claim:

what matters is that our system is
SO corrupt, and SO broken that it can now easily be SOLD TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER,
i.e. whoever can pony up the most money to hire the best hackers in the world


There is no evidence to support this proposition.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 06:51 PM

12. "...no evidence"?? You've got to be kidding me, right?

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:10 PM

14. You just linked to RIGHTWING NUTJOBS WHO CLAIM OBAMA STOLE THE ELECTION.

Here's one of your links:

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/22-signs-that-voter-fraud-is-wildly-out-of-control-and-the-election-was-a-sham

#2 There were 59 voting divisions in the city of Philadelphia where Mitt Romney did not receive a single vote. In those voting divisions, the combined vote total was 19,605 for Barack Obama and 0 for Mitt Romney.

#3 The overall voter turnout rate in Philadelphia was only about 60 percent. But in the areas of Philadelphia where Republican poll watchers were illegally removed, the voter turnout rate was over 90% and Obama received over 99% of the vote. Officials in Philadelphia have already ruled out an investigation.

#4 According to WND, one poll watcher in Pennsylvania actually claims that he witnessed voting machine software repeatedly switch votes from Mitt Romney to Barack Obama…


#18 In Wisconsin, there were allegations that Obama voters were actually being bussed in from out of state…



Citing rightwing liars to prove your point means:

Argument over, you lose.



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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:18 PM

15. We ALL deserve ACCURATE & FAIR elections

that are transparent and verifiable.

...even "Right Wing Nutjobs".

This is not a Right/Left issue, this is an issue that effects ALL Americans,
is this not true?

Attempting to discredit my OP with "OH NOES.. there's a RW website!!!"
is silly. It is correct that there are websites from all across the spectrum
crying out for the same thing: fair accurate elections that are transparent
and verifiable.

Can we simply agree on that?

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:21 PM

17. No. That rightwing blog is authored by a crazy idiot who doesn't

understand elections.

It's complete crap.

They push false rumors.

They wonder how it's possible that some black precincts in Philadelphia didn't have any Mitt Romney supporters.

It's not a legitimate complaint, but rather a sore loser trying to delegitimize the President because he doesn't like the outcome.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #17)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:23 PM

18. OK. You have my permission

to ignore that link.

Red Herring much?

What about all the other links?

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 05:58 PM

4. D'oh "This story is admittedly just a string of conjectures at this point"

Jesus Fucking Christ = Restoring Reason to Election Integrity Madness
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021851707

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #4)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 06:06 PM

5. You and I agree on one thing at least

We need to take steps immediately while this window of opportunity is open,
to restore the integrity of our elections.

You wrote:
We need to step away from our favorite political candidates to deal with the underlying structural problem. Until we fix transparency problems, actual tampering -- considerably more damaging than anything Anonymous claimed to have done -- will happen over and over.

The real problem that we have to wrap our heads around, educate others about, and solve, is public right to see and authenticate the count.

Germany ruled that the public must be able to see and authenticate every essential step of the election, without need for special expertise, and that no after the fact procedure can be substituted for the right to authenticate the original count.

That is exactly the model we here in the USA need to work towards, but first, we have to help the public understand that public controls over our own elections are the very essence of self-government, and self-government is the basis for all democratic systems.

There are four things the public must be able to see and authenticate:
1) Who can vote (voter list)
2) Who did vote (poll list)
3) Counting of the vote
4) Chain of custody


It's silly to be arguing about whether or not Anon did shit, or not, on election day; when the real issue
is the complete vulnerability of our current election system of voting with computers, that can be hacked
or buggered by the likes of Rove.

Would you not agree?

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #4)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 06:14 PM

7. You Do Agree that the voting machines are hack-able?

&feature=colike

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Response to UCmeNdc (Reply #7)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 06:32 PM

10. When has that ever been in dispute? If it is a computer, it is hackable.

It it uses code, it can be altered. Noone in their right mind would dispute that computers are hackable. That is NOT the issue. Why bring it up?

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 06:46 PM

11. Then we can all agree that the US needs to fix its ability to count votes

The argument over the ability of ANON to unhack a Rove hack is pointless. The reason that we cannot settle the question if the machines were hacked or not since there is no way to verify real voters votes against the machines recorded count is the real problem. That is what all future elections need. A transparent ability to count votes with a paper trail. Individual voters need a paper receipt of their votes.

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Response to UCmeNdc (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 08:25 PM

20. +100 nt

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 06:16 PM

8. Werner von Braun was pretty good with rockets, but the moon landings may have been staged.

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:07 PM

13. What I'm worried about is that some people who believe Anonymous

on the basis of NOTHING but their claims

may be lulled into thinking that we don't need a complete overhaul of our voting system to make sure that no one, not Rove and not Anonymous, can interfere with an accurate vote count.

We can't rely on our own personal Superman, Anonymous, to assure the integrity of our vote.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #13)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:20 PM

16. +100 That would concern me as well

like Obama said re: our elections "We need to fix that".

I couldn't agree more.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:38 PM

19. E) There is no evidence to support your claims

Lets focus on real efforts to steal elections like suppressing voter turnout instead of conspiracy theories.

Hackers don't have God like abilities to magically infiltrate every machine in the world. You need to have some specifics on how a hacker can accomplish such a feat before making claims. Keep the discussion grounded in reality.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:57 AM

21. "String of conjectures" is right.

Exactly what "information" has been dribbling out about this on the internet? All I can see is a lot of blog posts building on what can only be described as a dearth of facts.

And I really don't appreciate being told that wanting any evidence amounts to some kind of naivete. That is a wrongheaded and, frankly, insulting take on this. Don't we dems still pride ourselves on being members of the reality-based community?

Yes, our voting system as it exists today is vulnerable and unsuitable. This is no reason to take the right wing's lead and just believe whatever feels right to us regardless of what the facts (or lack thereof) can tell us.

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Response to TroglodyteScholar (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 03:27 PM

22. "our voting system as it exists today is vulnerable and unsuitable" Thank you.

I think that is the point of all this. That our current system of e-voting is unreliable,
vulnerable to being hacked, and needs to be replaced by the "old fashioned" way of
voting with real paper ballots, hand counted with bipartisan supervision.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #22)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:16 PM

23. I'll get behind that any day. n/t

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