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Sun Nov 18, 2012, 05:36 PM

Help in responding to ACA critic on facebook

I've been through most of the obvious reasons why we will all benefit by "Obamacare" with this guys. Here is his last post. My brain is fried! I need some some help in formulating an appropriate response. Many thanks in advance!

snip....

"The affordable health care act (Obamacare) is a tax. Period. Most who have health insurance have seen it increase at a greater rate than normal and the same goes with Group. Obamacare is not going to force anyone to buy health Insurance,but it will tax everyone who does not. It will be much cheaper to pay the tax than to purchase a healthcare plan. So, we (tax payers) will still be left footing the bill for those who seek treatment for emergencies or serious illness and are not insured. The poor will be given a subsidy to buy health insurance through state insurance pools. However, states such as Louisiana and many other are not going to set them up. (Unless forced by the supreme court) for the small few you can name it helps, it punishes most everyone else. You are also going to see the largest retirement of physicians across the board. It has already begun. Longer waits and more regulations. Former Speaker of the house Pelosi's asinine push to her Democratic colleges to pass the bill then you Can read it should be criminal. Sheer stupidity. It was just what will end up as a big tax on the middle class and business with over 50 employees. I say this as an insurance agent in several states that will make a ton more commission on Obamacare if more people purchase health insurance. However, that does not mean I agree with a huge tax on the American Middle Class for not doing such. Smoke & Mirrors always hides truth."

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Response to SouthernDonkey (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 05:49 PM

1. A few things:

to respond in order:

(1) "It will be much cheaper to pay the tax than to purchase a healthcare plan. So, we (tax payers) will still be left footing the bill for those who seek treatment for emergencies or serious illness and are not insured."

This did not happen in Massachusetts, which has essentially the same system. It took a few years, but now nearly everyone has insurance. It in fact has the lowest number of uninsureds in the nation.

the state went from 90 percent of its residents insured to 98 percent, the highest rate in the nation.

While two percent of Massachusetts residents are still not covered, that compares favorably to the national average of 16 percent uninsured.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57459563/massachusetts-health-care-plan-6-years-later/


(2) "The poor will be given a subsidy to buy health insurance through state insurance pools. However, states such as Louisiana and many other are not going to set them up. (Unless forced by the supreme court) for the small few you can name it helps, it punishes most everyone else."

This one is easy. If a state doesn't set up an insurance exchange into which its citizens can buy, the federal government is going to do it and offer choices to residents of that state. This simply isn't an argument.

(3) "You are also going to see the largest retirement of physicians across the board. It has already begun."

Where has it begun? This is simply not documented. There will be a need for more primary care physicians, since for many years, fewer medical students want to do that, opting for the more lucrative specialities instead. But the ACA has built into it incentives for medical students to be trained in and establish primary care practices.

See also: http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/8311.pdf


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Response to SouthernDonkey (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 05:49 PM

2. Why bother? You can lead a TeaBagger to facts, but you can't make him think.

There's no changing a closed mind, SD. If you've already pointed out the obvious reasons and advantages to this member of the Willfully Ignorant, than there's nothing much you can do.

States that refuse to set up exchanges will allow the Federal Government to come in and set them up for them. This opens the door to universal health care, according to John Nichols - and that's exactly what Righties don't want.

The problem with that TeaBagger you're debating with is, although he calls Obamacare a "tax", he's got to know that currently, the few are paying for the many in "free" health care at a higher cost for substandard care through their premiums. He might not give a flying eff, but he's not god so who gives a shite?

Oh, and you can give him the link to the New York Times that explains the Government sponsored "public option" that will compete directly with ProfitCare health insurance in the exchanges: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/health/us-to-sponsor-health-insurance-plans-nationwide.html

And then tell him to stfu if he's making a "ton more commission on Obamacare", and be grateful.

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Response to SouthernDonkey (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 06:07 PM

3. Those complaining about having to buy health insurance or having a fine

Is what many who has medical insurance are currently doing. When the insured are paying extra to cover the uninsured. Why should I have to cover the uninsured.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #3)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 06:19 PM

7. You're not. You pay for your own coverage. Competition created by the exchanges will cause

downward pressure on your premiums, as someone in this thread observes below.

Competition for that insurance market will also cause downward pressure on the costs of health care, in order to construct insurance coverage packages that are attractive to the much bigger market created by the mandate.

You are not paying for anyone's insurance but you own.

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Response to patrice (Reply #7)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 06:58 PM

12. Maybe you think health facilities only charge those who have insurance or pay their bills.

Just who do you think the cost of the uninsured and those who walks the bills gets passed to? Those cost gets spread to the insured and those who pays their bill. Don't confuse the cost of insurance to cover one's cost of health care. Health facilities could not stay in business without payment for their services. The insured pays the cost for the uninsured plan and simple, this turns into a mandate for many years on those who purchase insurance.

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Response to SouthernDonkey (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 06:08 PM

4. Insurance rates should rise more slowly

I know that's happened where I work. We're in NY. This year brought BY FAR the smallest increase in our insurance premiums in the ten years I've been at my place of employment. The AFA provides the states with the ability to have much more oversight with regards to premiums.

Details at this link

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Response to SouthernDonkey (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 06:13 PM

5. Just tell the callous, stupid ass that one day he might lose his job and insurance and rest of us


will help pay his way too. The fact that so many people are uninsured -- and that it is so easy for hardworking people to become uninsured through illness or losing their job -- is a national shame.

If he/she doesn't like it, tell them to go move into a compound with other right wing bigots and leave those who take a broader view of society to make this country better for the next century. I'd tell them to move to another country, but all the civilized ones have much better health coverage ("socialized") than us.

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Response to SouthernDonkey (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 06:13 PM

6. The fines for not having insurance go into a pool to subsidize those who can't afford it. nt

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Response to SouthernDonkey (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 06:24 PM

8. My insurance coverage is ending December 9, 2012.

I have been rejected by insurance companies because of a preexisting condition. Therefore, I am eligible for the state pool in Illinois. I will be in the pool until I am Medicare eligible in August.

My insurance agent is helping me set things up. Her agency handles my auto, homeowners and farm insurance. We also have an umbrella policy. She gets NOTHING, nada, zero, no commission, for helping me with the pool's medical insurance. She is doing it because she is nice, and because we have been her customers for more than thirty years.

The point is, how is this guy making more on commissions through the pool? And is it legal for someone to be an agent in more than one state? I honestly don't know if this part of his statement is making any sense.

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Response to SouthernDonkey (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 06:28 PM

9. You say this

"We won, bitches. Obamacare is the law of the land, so shut your mouth."

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Response to SouthernDonkey (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 06:33 PM

10. Tell him ... "thank you for your concern." And then say, "Obama won, get used to it".

If that fails point out that you voted against Bush and you were against the Iraq war, but that our President "decidered" ... and that you had to suck it up and "get used to it", or be called a traitor.

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Response to SouthernDonkey (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 06:45 PM

11. EXCELLENT! EXCELLENT! EXCELLENT!

Thank you all! Great points!
The reason I need to respond is that he piped in on my cousins page with his retort. She is a young mother in Louisiana, who is Republican because that is the way she was brought up and lives. She's not well educated, and she's poor in the economic sense, but doesn't realize it. She asked simply "What will Obamacare do for me?" About 8 or 9 of her young redneck friends then all popped in to opine with one sentence typical rhetoric. So I joined in and explained all of the pre existing conditions, etc etc and provided links for sites listing the benefits. The rest of the folks shut up, because they are totally ignorant and choose to remain that way I guess. But she was very appreciative. Then this guy piped in. The only reason I am answering him, is to hopefully educate her, as well as her young ignorant friends as to the honest facts of ACA to let them see for a fact exactly how they will benefit. We HAVE to do this in the South, if we hope to ever change peoples way of thinking down here. They are way too ignorant, lazy, and unmotivated to go out on their own and get the truth!

My many thanks to all of you for your replies and your help!

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Response to SouthernDonkey (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 07:02 PM

13. Send her to the kaiser website

Healthreform.kff.og
There is good accessible information that tells her exactly what the ACA offers her family. She qualifies for subsidies of some kind, whether free insurance or tax credits, depending on how low her income is.

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Response to SouthernDonkey (Original post)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 07:16 PM

14. Spam deleted by gkhouston (MIR Team)

 

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