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Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:17 PM

Would we be btter off without these secessionist wanna-bees?

cross posted from Penigma.blogspot.com:

Not the entire states; would we be better off just without the lunatic individuals who WANT to secede?

Can we just send them away somewhere? Maybe buy one of those private islands for them, set them up with the fair market value of their property, see they are equipped to survive ---------- and then leave them to it, their own teeny tiny ever so silly little world, all their own.

Let's give them what they want - their own alternate reality paradise where they can engage in black ops conspiracy mania all they want, without annoying the heck out of the rest of us.

Let them engage in their own mini-anarchic little world of failure and folly. Provide them a good supply of silly pseudo-patriot costumes, flag props, and a whole lot of tea bags! And SPF sunscreen 30 at least, because you can bet most of them will be pale, old, crabby and flabby.

Of course, there is that nagging little detail that looms large -- they do not represent their respective states. I rather doubt they have any significant legal legs on which to stand, but standing is not essential in the lalala land of people who shove their thumbs in their ears, waggle their fingers, and try to drowned out the sounds of reality with shrill monosyllables.

I wonder how many of them are going to take the incredibly foolish step when they are turned down of trying to start another shooting war? Those domestic drones may be working overtime very soon, which is a perfectly appropriate use of them in dealing with domestic terrorists or citizens who commit treason (if, but only IF they take up arms against the lawful government of the United States, and their fellow citizens, including those in the armed forces).

Crazy conservatives; and they wonder why we find them so toxic?

From the Examiner:
Citizens in 15 states file petitions to secede from United States


Secession November 11, 2012 By: Joe Newby

As a result of Tuesday's election, Americans in 15 states have filed petitions to secede from the United States, Regina Conley reported at Red Alert Politics on Saturday.

So far, she says, residents in Louisiana, Texas, Kentucky, Colorado, New Jersey and ten other states, have filed petitions at the White House petition site requesting secession. A petition for New York to secede was file by "C R" of Grand Forks, North Dakota on Saturday.

Examiner's Sheila Carroll says those other states include Montana, North Dakota, Indiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, Alabama, Florida, Georgia and Oregon.

On November 7, the day after the election, "Michael E" from Slidell, Louisiana, filed a petition at the White House "We the People" site, requesting that Louisiana be allowed to secede.

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation," the petition reads, quoting the Declaration of Independence.

As of this writing, the petition has 8.162 signatures and needs 16,838 to reach a goal of 25,000.

On Friday, a Texas resident created a petition to secede in order to protect the standard of living Texans now enjoy.

"The US continues to suffer economic difficulties stemming from the federal government's neglect to reform domestic and foreign spending. The citizens of the US suffer from blatant abuses of their rights such as the NDAA, the TSA, etc. Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union, and to do so would protect its citizens' standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in accordance with the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no longer being reflected by the federal government," the petition reads.

As of this writing, that petition had 5,289 signatures.

The Oregon petition, started Saturday by "Kristopher W" of Tillamook, Oregon, wants the state to remain an ally of the United States and possibly vote to rejoin the Union once "the citizens of Oregon felt the Federal Government was no longer imposing" what it calls a tyrannical government that cares nothing about the future of Oregon's children."

Petitions on the White House site have 30 days to reach a threshold of 25,000 signatures.

"While these petitions serve more to make a point than to present a serious proposition, they are a physical symbol of the deep resentment for the direction in which the United States is moving under the Obama administration," Conley added.

Psssssssst! Conley? Did you NOT GET THE MEMO, or read or see or hear the news? President Obama WON re-election by a significant number of votes. Dumbass Dubya won (sort of) and he had the gall to call that a MANDATE, and POLITICAL CAPITAL. Obama has more couth than to put it that way, but the bottom line is that 1. it is unlikely you will get 25,000 valid signatures on those petitions; and 2. so what? You don't represent a point of view that deserves to be taken seriously, because you are severely factually challenged.

Now, I know you like to listen to stupid people wind you up, who have somehow achieve a rank or title in spite of being reality-challenged, like this guy. But there is something functionally wrong with you if he makes sense. When people like this other guy (and my but you DO seem to have more than your fair share of wack-a-doodle nut jobs in Texas, by the way) try to tell you that the U.N. is coming to take over the country (or to take your guns), please - PLEASE - do try to remember that these people are an embarrassment to your state and local communities, on a par with Michele Bachmann's lunacies in Minnesota. Don't listen to them, don't pay any heed to them; they are not reliable, and they're making shit up. Frankly, if you believe this kind of bullshit, you should consider seeking custodial care of your affairs, because you are clearly mentally deficient, and not only NOT capable of running your own secessionist little state, you're of dubious ability to look after yourself without drooling.

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Arrow 36 replies Author Time Post
Reply Would we be btter off without these secessionist wanna-bees? (Original post)
Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 OP
TeamPooka Nov 2012 #1
brewens Nov 2012 #2
Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #17
LoisB Nov 2012 #3
Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #18
jbgood1977 Nov 2012 #4
politicat Nov 2012 #6
Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #25
Rwolf Nov 2012 #7
JoeyT Nov 2012 #11
Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #19
neeksgeek Nov 2012 #5
onenote Nov 2012 #14
LVZ Nov 2012 #15
onenote Nov 2012 #16
Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #28
Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #27
neeksgeek Nov 2012 #36
Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #20
davidpdx Nov 2012 #8
Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #21
davidpdx Nov 2012 #34
NCLefty Nov 2012 #9
TexasTowelie Nov 2012 #10
Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #22
Las Vegas Mixx Nov 2012 #12
Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #23
LVZ Nov 2012 #26
Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #29
LVZ Nov 2012 #31
Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #33
Sunlei Nov 2012 #13
Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #24
sandersjason Nov 2012 #30
BlueDemKev Nov 2012 #32
Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #35

Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:18 PM

1. Just keep telling them it's "We The People..."

and you're stuck with us.

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Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:21 PM

2. So we let Texas go under the condition that they let everyone that wants to move to

their state for a couple of years. Imagine their being flooded with poor white half-wits! Then once they are set up in their own country, we let Mexico know that we won't lift a finger if they invade.

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Response to brewens (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:15 AM

17. one big Texas or five little Texases (what WOULD the plural of Texas be?)

Texas doesn't have the right to secede, contrary to the nonsense promoted by Rick Perry and others. What they do have is the right to divide into five separate states - and there are some limitations on that. That would give that area more senators, but probably fewer members of Congress - a wash in terms of exchange.

Secession is not a serious option and these people are ridiculous extremists who do not deserve to be taken seriously. It wouldn't surprise me a bit to find that the majority of them were white supremacists. These people are badly factually challenged, and their assumptions are just crazy.

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Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:34 PM

3. I wish they would stop talking about it and just go. The sooner, the better.

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Response to LoisB (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:16 AM

18. emigration - to where?

The Nut Gingrich postulated a lunar colony, not a lunatic colony, but still -- Texas has the facilities to launch them into space.

Houston......we have a departure! LOL!

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Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:59 PM

4. This progressive site has postulated that it may be time for a break up

 

http://www.irregulartimes.com/secedenow.html

It's an interesting argument. I really do see two nations when I look at the national red/blue map. Perhaps an amicable break up before any shooting starts is a good idea. I'm not talking about any kind of grade school B.S. about blocking international waterways or building walls, etc. (we don't tolerate the rethugs talking that BS about Mexico so we shouldn't do that in this case either)

Anyway, I think it's an idea that would be worth discussing rationally as adults.

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Response to jbgood1977 (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:15 PM

6. Add in the Native American and Norteno States in Colorado and New Mexico.

New Mexico is no longer red at all and Colorado is more blue than purple. Even better if we can drive a long, narrow wedge up to the Lakota Nation.

Please don't leave us with Texas. They tried to steal our gold in the Civil War. We've still got issues about that.

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Response to politicat (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:36 AM

25. YES!

Every time I see a confederate flag - all I see is treason.

They see a fantasy.

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Response to jbgood1977 (Reply #4)


Response to jbgood1977 (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 04:59 AM

11. As long as you're willing to admit

that as a rational adult you're ok with The Homeland States of America killing every minority, GLBT, atheist, and liberal they find within their borders, because that's what the end result is going to be.

As far as moving goes, people suggesting I move can piss off. Our tribal land is here: I'm not leaving it so some self-righteous people that are lucky enough to live in a blue state can feel smug about everyone in their new country agreeing with them.

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Response to jbgood1977 (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:23 AM

19. Not that much is really red

New Mexico for example, voted for Obama. Florida voted for Obama.

The reality is that the blue states subsidize the red states, and that it is the poorer 47% that Romney referred to so contemptuously that supported Romney but actually rely on the federal government for the most help.

That disconnect with reality and reason argues for ignoring how red the red states appear to be. They wouldn't like it if they got what they are asking for; in fact they aren't doing that well anyway under their own policies -- poor education levels, high uninsured levels, poor levels of health and health care. Their insistence on failed abstinence only / pro-ignorance sex ed results in higher levels of unplanned teen pregnancies which in turn correlates to more poverty. Their anti-union 'right to be poor/right to work laws' don't produce more jobs, and do result in lower economic growth with more people not being paid adequately.

The red states are not policies for success. The rest of us in the blue states owe it to them to ignore their ideology for our greater good as a country. Without the blue states they will be polluted, ignorant, and economically destitute, dying off at earlier and earlier ages of preventable illnesses. And they will be less free.

Nation building begins at home. They want to build a 19th century nation; too bad. This is the United States and this is the 21st century.

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Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:04 PM

5. I took a good look at these petitions. What a cluster.

All of them have signatures from residents of numerous states. You'd think, if you wanted your little petition drive to have any legitimacy, that you'd insist on keeping your state's petition open to your state's residents only... I wish I had access to a CSV file for each petition. I'd dump it into Excel and run a cross-reference on the entire database. I bet you we'd find the same names popping up on several of these.

Not that it matters. These people are talking to the wrong government body, anyway! They'd need to take the matter up with their respective state governments (all of whom, I'm sure, would say something along the lines of "Get the **** out of here!").

It will be interesting to see what the White House says, assuming that any one of these does get to 25,000.

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Response to neeksgeek (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 08:01 AM

14. the words "legitimacy" and "secession petition" don't belong in a sentence together

Remember the Civil War? There is no "legitimate" path to secession.

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Response to onenote (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 08:05 AM

15. Actually, Thomas Jefferson would have disagreed with your position

During the presidency of Thomas Jefferson, a number of New England states threatened secession over the issue of the Louisiana Purchase. His response? “Whether we remain in one confederacy, or form into Atlantic and Mississippi confederacies, I believe not very important to the happiness of either part. Those of the Western confederacy will be as much our children & descendants as those of the Eastern.” Jan. 29, 1804. And “God bless them both, & keep them in Union, if it be for their good, but separate them, if it be better.”

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Response to LVZ (Reply #15)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 08:55 AM

16. Supreme Court

In Texas v. White (1869): "When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States."

So there is one legitimate way to secede: it requires the consent of the other states. And that's not going to be forthcoming no matter how many people petition for it.

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Response to onenote (Reply #16)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:40 AM

28. Exactly -- thanks for the specific citation

I didn't have it at my finger tips, but this is it precisely.

You hit it - a bullseye.

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Response to LVZ (Reply #15)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:39 AM

27. I don't think he would

He went ahead anyway with the Louisiana purchase.

It has never yet been the case that separate was better.

Or do those red states want to stop receiving more back in federal assistance from the blue states than they pay out?

I think not.

We shouldn't let the idiots and the delusional drive the bus.

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Response to onenote (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 11:13 AM

36. Just to be clear - I don't *actually* think they are legitimate.

Just trying to point out, in my clumsy, verbose way, that they are talking to the wrong people. I don't actually condone any such action.

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Response to neeksgeek (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:25 AM

20. They've probably seen the same names before

Laughter is good to relieve the stress of the White House. Think of it as cheap humor, and free therapy.

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Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 02:56 AM

8. I keep telling people the solution to this problem is easy

Ask them if they want to secede. If they say yes, tell them we are giving them their own island. Load up the C-130 fly it over the ocean dump them all out into the ocean and let the sharks take care of the rest.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:28 AM

21. Too much like the homophobic conservative answer to gays

The various idiot religious right talking heads wanted to pen up gays behind an electrified fence.

I don't think we need to do anything - other than point and laugh at them - unless some of them try to stage an armed rebellion.

We have people to take care of that - heck WE have drones, and they don't.

Once they start shooting, or planning some of the other numerous efforts, like the old geezers in Georgia who planned to kill people with Ricin, then I think it is appropriate to respond with whatever level of force is necessary to subdue them -- and relegate them to a straight jacket in a cell with mattresses for wallpaper.

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Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Reply #21)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 07:32 PM

34. Yeah very true

I worry about the people who are really demented who have guns and think the government is after them.

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Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 03:22 AM

9. 8000-25000 people want this? LOL.

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Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 03:26 AM

10. Is that supposed to be batter, better, bitter or butter?

It seems like most would apply.

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:30 AM

22. no

not really. More of a bother.

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Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 06:51 AM

12. A peaceful split worked out well for Czechoslovakia - why not the USA?

20 years ago http://www.wisegeek.com/what-was-the-velvet-divorce.htm



The Velvet Divorce was one of the most peaceful changes in political borders in the aftermath of Soviet Communism. Though the Czech Republic and Slovakia still had some kinks to work out after the Velvet Divorce, including the division of former federal property, they remained on peaceful terms with each other throughout. Both countries became members of the European Union in 2004.




"Whenever something is wrong, something is too big." --- Leopold Kohr

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Response to Las Vegas Mixx (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:33 AM

23. very simple

In the case you cite, there was consensus and agreement among intelligent and informed people with a common ground acting in a reasoned, fact based manner.

None of those apply here to these people. They have no consensus in each state, and certainly no consensus among the other states about their leaving. Both are necessary.

Lincoln permanently resolved the question of could states secede without the consent of the other states.

Everyone has had to ratify a new state to join; everyone has to agree for a state to leave.

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Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Reply #23)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:37 AM

26. nothing is permanent ... remember the "thousand year reich" ? n/t

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Response to LVZ (Reply #26)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:44 AM

29. That doesn't seem applicable here

We aren't invading anyone.

We still have a viable government and society. These are a few delusional malcontents who have suffered a severe break with factual reality, of the variety promoted on Fox news.

We are nothing like the reich, and contrary to Fake News where they make shit up, Obama is nothing like Hitler.

The Godwin principle pops up again. Sheesh.

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Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Reply #29)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 11:03 AM

31. Sheesh - the "permanent" Republican (or Democratic) majority? solid Democratic (Republican) South?

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Response to LVZ (Reply #31)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 02:49 PM

33. anyone who expects a permanent majority of any kind is probably foolish

permanent is like those other words that are so problematic, always and never.

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Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 07:08 AM

13. thousands of acres for sale cheap all over the world. what stops them from moving out?

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #13)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:34 AM

24. They like to think they are important?

I think you have to wonder why someone would make such a ridiculous gesture, knowing it is an empty gesture.

It cannot be a complete surprise to them that they are laughingstocks.

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Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:59 AM

30. Secessionist don't represent their state, or their party

Of course, there is that nagging little detail that looms large -- they do not represent their respective states.


Some of them not only don't represent their state, they don't even represent the feelings of their own party at times.

I read an article last night, Texas Republican calls Obama voters 'racist', 'maggots', about the treasurer of a local Republican party in Texas who not only thinks Texas needs to secede, actually he calls it an "amicable divorce", he basically says anyone who is not white or a Republican is a racist. The head of the party even found his comments over the top.

My family was traditionally Republican and I voted Republican for much of my adult life. But the last several years I have found the party to be going so far to the extremist views, it scares me. Calling for revolution and wanting to secede from the Union is treasonous and about as anti-American and against our founding fathers principles as one can get.

I read another article where a Fox News commentator actually was the voice of reason, admitting the party has gone way too far to the right. Hopefully they will listen to him, though I suspect they won't. I honestly fear for the future of this great country, not because of the "evil liberals", but because of the hatred and extremism being displayed by the party I once embraced.

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Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 11:55 AM

32. Definitely Yes.

There's the door, don't let it hit you on the way OUT!

Buh-bye!!

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Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 10:07 AM

35. darned tea partiers can't even spell secede properly...



It's not spelled SECDEE!

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