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Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:19 PM

My response to my religious aunt who has a heavy heart over the election results.

She was raised in a Catholic family, grew up with Democratic parents, was a Democrat herself, but then moved to Texas and left the Church and became very religious and very conservative. It's been sad watching her transformation and while I love her, and get along with her very well, her post on Facebook tonight couldn't be ignored.

Her post:

My heart is heavy because I finally realized that we are no longer a Christian nation....one nation under God. We are a secular nation who has taken God out of everything and as a Christian who believes that God is our ultimate leader I must therefore be obedient to his laws. Gay marriage, abortion on demand all oppose God's teachings. I love my friends who have chosen the gay lifestyle and they are welcome in my home, but their lifestyle is a sin. I love my friends who have had abortions and have cried with them over having to make such a hard decision, but it's still a sin, even though I grieve for them and with them, just like God does. It's time we start being accountable for our decisions and our lifestyles. We can't ask God to bless our lives and our nation and then disregard his rules.


And my reply:

I am sorry you feel that way, Caroline. I think this speaks to why the Founding Fathers were so careful to construct a constitution that defined the importance of separation of Church and State. They realized religion is often used as a tool of division and sadly, Caroline, that's exactly what I see from your post and your tone.

We didn't reject God because we decided it was okay to embrace equality or that a woman who has been raped shouldn't be forced to carry her rape baby - that is irrelevant and again, two issues that the religious right and the Republican Party have used to successfully divide our country for the last forty-years.

You say you love your friends who've 'chosen' the gay lifestyle ... but do you? Suggesting that they are the bane of everything that is wrong with this country and holding them in such contempt is not love. It's not kindness.

Your heart is heavy today, Caroline, because it's not embraced inclusiveness. Instead, sadly, it's filled with bitterness and division and that to me is the least commendable thing about so many Christians. America is great not because we are a Christian nation ... but because we are just ONE nation. It does not matter if half that nation believes in Islam or Christianity or Judaism or even nothing ... because the power of a nation, the success of a nation, does not come from whose Christianity is bigger and better, but by whose ideas are bigger and better.

We need to stop playing the game of division or we will sink as a country because I can guarantee you, the hate on both sides - whether it's toward our President or even Republicans - is more concerning, more damaging and more devastating to our nation's future than whether Jack and John want to marry and spend the rest of their lives together living in happiness and respect.

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Arrow 63 replies Author Time Post
Reply My response to my religious aunt who has a heavy heart over the election results. (Original post)
Drunken Irishman Nov 2012 OP
Anthony McCarthy Nov 2012 #1
Drunken Irishman Nov 2012 #4
codjh9 Nov 2012 #7
southernyankeebelle Nov 2012 #16
codjh9 Nov 2012 #17
southernyankeebelle Nov 2012 #44
efhmc Nov 2012 #20
southernyankeebelle Nov 2012 #43
beac Nov 2012 #21
Wraith20878 Nov 2012 #41
southernyankeebelle Nov 2012 #42
codjh9 Nov 2012 #45
beac Nov 2012 #46
ReRe Nov 2012 #59
beac Nov 2012 #61
LynneSin Nov 2012 #55
immoderate Nov 2012 #2
codjh9 Nov 2012 #3
gademocrat7 Nov 2012 #5
louis-t Nov 2012 #6
Curmudgeoness Nov 2012 #22
Berlin Expat Nov 2012 #60
Curmudgeoness Nov 2012 #63
Lugia Nov 2012 #35
Walk away Nov 2012 #8
dmr Nov 2012 #9
GentryDixon Nov 2012 #10
southernyankeebelle Nov 2012 #19
duhneece Nov 2012 #11
Pool Hall Ace Nov 2012 #12
xfundy Nov 2012 #13
LeftofObama Nov 2012 #14
surrealAmerican Nov 2012 #15
OnionPatch Nov 2012 #50
Ilsa Nov 2012 #18
snagglepuss Nov 2012 #23
Jack Sprat Nov 2012 #24
relayerbob Nov 2012 #25
cecilfirefox Nov 2012 #26
Zoeisright Nov 2012 #27
mamayo Nov 2012 #30
mamayo Nov 2012 #28
Sophiegirl Nov 2012 #29
JNelson6563 Nov 2012 #31
identify Nov 2012 #32
Liberalynn Nov 2012 #33
NCLivin Nov 2012 #34
Mz Pip Nov 2012 #36
NightOwwl Nov 2012 #37
Uniblab Nov 2012 #38
defacto7 Nov 2012 #39
Cha Nov 2012 #40
outsideworld Nov 2012 #47
DCKit Nov 2012 #48
Kota Nov 2012 #49
Emit Nov 2012 #51
Rider3 Nov 2012 #52
EC Nov 2012 #53
ieoeja Nov 2012 #54
mgardener Nov 2012 #56
ReRe Nov 2012 #57
nakocal Nov 2012 #58
DFW Nov 2012 #62

Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:21 PM

1. My Catholic relatives

 

from my very elderly mother to my young nieces and nephews are thrilled with the results. They voted for marriage equality in Maine.

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Response to Anthony McCarthy (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:23 PM

4. I noticed Obama won the Catholic vote again!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:25 PM

7. Of course! Because he's O'bama, remember? :^)

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Response to codjh9 (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:53 PM

16. What do you mean by that?

 

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:56 PM

17. When he ran the first time, and went to Ireland (where his mom's ancestors are from), he was

very well-received, and the joke was that his name was O'bama, like O'Neil, O'Reilly, whatever, and Ireland has a large Catholic population. Hence my joke about him getting the Catholic vote...

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Response to codjh9 (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:34 PM

44. Thanks, I was wondering what was meant by it. I forgot about that.

 

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:58 PM

20. That's suppose to be his Irish name (joked about it on a trip to Ireland).

Actually is said to have Irish relatives on his mom's side.

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Response to efhmc (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:32 PM

43. Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure.

 

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:59 PM

21. I'm guessing this:



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Response to beac (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 09:50 PM

41. This is great

Thanks for sharing

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Response to beac (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:31 PM

42. Oh I see. thanks

 

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Response to beac (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:48 PM

45. Cool, thanks, I'd never seen that. Here's a t-shirt like I was talking about (if the long

link works):

&rcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tshirts.ie%2Fobamas-irish-t-shirt.html&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tshirts.ie%2Fobamas-irish-t-shirt.html&p=irish+obama+shirt&type=&no=3&tt=115&oid=B4CFCCED09C66F7449FF2B639F9DA4B89607C80B&tit=Obama’s+Irish+t-shirt+%7C+tshirts.ie&sigr=11fftnc95&sigi=11770vqp8&sigb=11roqrbsn&fr=yfp-t-521

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Response to codjh9 (Reply #45)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 08:29 AM

46. The video's from 2008, but I worked with a kid from Ireland

on election day and I can confirm that the Irish still claim O'Bama as their own.

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Response to beac (Reply #21)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:57 PM

59. Thanks

for reposting this. Those were the days, my friend. Happy days are here again!

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Response to ReRe (Reply #59)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:09 PM

61. Indeed, indeed!

I cannot stop smiling.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:34 PM

55. Vice President is Catholic

And the Delaware Catholics love him!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:23 PM

2. Good show, DI!

Well spoke.

--imm

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:23 PM

3. Damn good reply. I don't even get INTO this stuff with my crazy relatives. I mostly only

talk to the ones I agree with - well, as far as politics/religion. But your response is (not surprisingly) well-thought-out ... I hope she sees some sense in it.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:24 PM

5. Well said, Drunken Irishman

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:24 PM

6. I would have added:

"Besides, Mitt Romney is a liar. And he's not a Christian" But that's me.

I was going to tell a very religious man at my office who "prayed for Romney" that he didn't pray hard enough. I think I will hold my tongue and be civil. It was very 'mopey' around here today.

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Response to louis-t (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:05 PM

22. It was very mopey at my office too.

So sad.

I wrote "bummer" on the Romney/Ryan sign on my office door today....and someone finally tore it off my door. Hey, I certainly wasn't the one who put it there.

And although I agree that you shouldn't tell your coworker that he didn't pray hard enough, I would love to do that too....and I often wonder what their answer would be.

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Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:04 PM

60. I did have the glorious opportunity

to needle an acquaintance. She's quite the Christian fundie, I'm a Sufi Muslim, she's of course convinced I'm heading straight for Hell, and that Obama is indeed, the Beast from the Book of Revelation.

She'd said prior to the election that of course Romney would win, because her and her church were praying night and day. I replied that where I live, there really are no Muslims, just a couple of us, but that I humbly prayed to Allah that President Obama would be re-elected, and that all things are in His domain, regardless of outcome. Of course, she informed me that my "moon god" was false.

After the election, I couldn't pass up the chance for a zinger.

I told her, "Well, alhamdulillah! President Obama was re-elected. Funny.....I simply made a brief supplication, one time, and He listened to me. You and your church prayed night and day, and you lost. So.....who does God listen to, then?"

I have yet to receive a reply. If I get one, I'm sure it'll be quite testy.

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Response to Berlin Expat (Reply #60)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:16 PM

63. OMG, you have me in tears!

That is so funny I am laughing hysterically all alone. I freaked out the cat.



Since I am an atheist, you can imagine why I find that so hilarious. This fundy must be having a crisis of faith....but I am sure she will talk to her preacher and get you an answer.

Thank you for making my evening better.

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Response to louis-t (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:46 PM

35. Tell him that!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:27 PM

8. What a kind and sincere response to your Auntie's comment.

You are a better person that I am. I would have just said "Only an idiot would believe in a god that gives a shit about two guys getting married!".
That's pretty much what I said to my Dad and after a few weeks of thinking about it he agreed with me.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:34 PM

9. That was beautiful.

It brought tears to my eyes.

I just want to hug you. (((Drunken Irishman)))

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:35 PM

10. I bookmarked for later printing.

My husband is going to use it for his argument with his relatives in North Carolina who are supposed Christians. One even being a Pastors wife.

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Response to GentryDixon (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:58 PM

19. My hubby used to be a chaplains assistant in the army for 21 yrs. He has worked

 

with many different ministers, priests, and rabbis. One thing he also said that the Pentecostal and some of the fundies ministers are such big hypocrites that you ever want to meet. They are so good at saying do as I say, not as I do. What a crazy bunch.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:48 PM

11. You have a kind & loving heart...and you're eloquent to boot! nt

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:54 PM

12. Very kind, thoughtful reply to your aunt

That whole "Christian nation" and "one nation under God" stuff makes my blood boil. You handled it so well!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:56 PM

13. You showed tact and great restraint.

At this point, I'd have told her to fuck off and die. I've already said essentially that to my idiot fundie sister who stole from my parents continually, even as my mother was dying.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:10 PM

14. Great reply!

Well thought out response. I like the way you think.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:21 PM

15. I probably would have asked her ...

... what it is she likes about Christianity. Is it something about loving your neighbor, being a part of a community, living a "godly" life, or is it more about condemning others for not believing something she does?


We are not and were never intended to be a theocracy. If she thinks gay people, or women who've had abortions will have to answer to God, why does she think that answering to the police is so important anyway?

I don't know your aunt. This might not have been the right way to talk about this with her.

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Response to surrealAmerican (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 02:30 PM

50. This is what I don't get

Can't they believe in something without having it become the law of the land? No one is forcing them to go against what they believe.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:57 PM

18. Thoughtful, wonderful reply. Bookmarked nt

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:12 PM

23. Well said.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:16 PM

24. Excellent response.

 

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:17 PM

25. Fantastic Response

Did she answer back to that?

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:26 PM

26. You did what I refer to as 'lawying down the law'! nt ;)

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:30 PM

27. Good reply.

You were much kinder than I would have been. She's a bigot.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:35 PM

30. I disagree

she now lives surrounded by possible bigots and sometimes it may be difficult for an older person who is seeking out friends and companions not to get steered into their 'ways'. Hopefully, this letter will remind her what true 'love' is so that she can begin to believe in herself again instead of what her 'friends' may be telling her.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:30 PM

28. I only wish

that I could be as articulate. You did beautifully. I would love to hear her response if you wouldn't mind sharing it here.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:31 PM

29. Beautifully written. n/t

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:36 PM

31. I know this will sound

grandmotherly/motherly but DI, you are such a dear boy.

I think your reply to your aunt's unfortunate perspective was perfect.



Julie

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:37 PM

32. nail hit squarely on head

Great response!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:38 PM

33. Wonderful and Well Said

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:42 PM

34. Bravo.both my parents are in their 70's, catholic and have ONLY voted democratic their entire lives.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:50 PM

36. Terrific response

I have a few relatives like her who are dry angry and demoralized by this election.

Your response is perfect.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 09:09 PM

37. Beautiful

If she reads your words with an open mind and an open heart, she might feel some of that heaviness lifted.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 09:34 PM

38. Wow, incredible!

That was incredible, beautifully written. I am curious to what her response would be. Please let us know.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 09:39 PM

39. Beautiful job.

It's strong, it's concise and yet loving and respectful. People don't always realize you get a lot farther with this kind of attitude than with vitriol.

Nice reply.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 09:47 PM

40. Brilliant DI..Thank you!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:58 AM

47. beautifully written . K&R

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 11:49 AM

48. Well stated. i'm ascared of checking my email... several "aunt Carolines" in my family. nt

 

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:07 PM

49. Good response.

You put a lot of thought in to your response.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:06 PM

51. Nicely done, Irishman!

Nicely done.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:17 PM

52. I'd like to buy you a drink

Excellent response.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:26 PM

53. I just wish that they would remember or study

the history of why we didn't want religion in government. Every time kings changed religions in England there was a bloody mess while the kings men made sure everybody change religion right along with them...if they didn't they were heretics and banished, burned, quartered or whatever other brutish torturous death they could devise.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:28 PM

54. If you have any more exchanges on this, you might want to remind her that:


Had the United States ever been a Christian nation, then Catholicism would have been banned as Catholics were reviled by most citizens when this country was originally founded.

KKK tried to burn a cross at my grandparents' house back in the day because we were Catholic. Even when I was living there, I experienced virulent anti-Catholic bigotry outside our Catholic community in the Bible Belt.


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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:39 PM

56. I hope

Hope that your aunt really reads your response and takes it to heart. It was beautifully written
The hate that these 'christians' have towards anyone that is not like them is astounding.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:43 PM

57. Drunken Irishman!

That was excellent!!! On the dime! Have you ever thought about running for office? When I read your OP title, I was going to tell you to tell her to put her heart on a diet, to open it up and let some of this beautiful blinding diversity shine in. But really, you nailed it. Thanks so much for sharing..

ReRe

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 05:52 PM

58. Republican policies are anti-Christian

We are not a Christian nation because of the policies push and put in place by republicans. Jesus said to help the poor, not ignore the poor. Jesus said to feed the hungry, not let them starve. Jesus said to help the sick, not let them die.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:17 PM

62. Sorry, but how DARE she tell YOU what "God's teachings" are?

No god has ever taught her anything. Not in writing, not by email, not by burning bush.

People have taught her. THAT'S whose teachings she is citing. If that's what she believes, so be it. That's why they call it "faith" and not "knowledge." But to insist that anyone else accept that her beliefs are the teaching of some Deity she assumes exists (but does not KNOW exists) is the height of arrogance.

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