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Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:17 PM

Why do Wingers Think Obama is going to use the UN against America?

Serious question. And I'm embarrassed to say that I've simply never taken the time to try to understand WHY these people believe this, because I think it is utterly absurd.

But I need to better understand this to answer a relative's hate email.

Can someone give me the cliff notes version? I know it's in that 2016 movie, but I'm not watching that crap.

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Reply Why do Wingers Think Obama is going to use the UN against America? (Original post)
hamsterjill Nov 2012 OP
Scuba Nov 2012 #1
freshwest Nov 2012 #2
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #3
Skinner Nov 2012 #4
hamsterjill Nov 2012 #10
freshwest Nov 2012 #16
codjh9 Nov 2012 #5
erinlough Nov 2012 #6
Hydra Nov 2012 #7
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #8
flyingfysh Nov 2012 #9
freshwest Nov 2012 #19
arcane1 Nov 2012 #26
libdem4life Nov 2012 #11
budkin Nov 2012 #12
arcane1 Nov 2012 #13
freshwest Nov 2012 #21
Island Blue Nov 2012 #14
freshwest Nov 2012 #22
mikeysnot Nov 2012 #15
freshwest Nov 2012 #23
The Wielding Truth Nov 2012 #17
Bonhomme Richard Nov 2012 #18
DCBob Nov 2012 #20
thecrow Nov 2012 #24
frylock Nov 2012 #25
hamsterjill Nov 2012 #28
frylock Nov 2012 #31
demwing Nov 2012 #27
ashling Nov 2012 #29
longship Nov 2012 #30
doccraig67 Nov 2012 #32
BREMPRO Nov 2012 #33
ancianita Nov 2012 #34
Zoeisright Nov 2012 #35

Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:19 PM

1. Doncha know? The UN Army is waiting in Canada. They'll be coming down tomorrow ...

... to confiscate your guns and bibles.

It will be illegal to pray in your own homes.

It will be illegal to speak of God, Jeebus or Ronald Reagan.

You will be required to enter into a same-sex marriage.

"Re-education camps" have already been prepared for anyone who argues.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:19 PM

2. This has been a theme since the 1950's promulgated by the Koch started John Birch Society.

It's been continued all of these years. I've always heard about it and it was used against every Democrat. I've heard it for 50 years.

Thom Hartmann: Conservative Millennials, Boomers & Libertarians all being Conned


http://www.democraticunderground.com/101744227

It was used against JFK and his avoiding war with Russia over the Cuban missile crisis was called treason. Any sort of attempt to bring a social democracy such as Europe, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, was called submission to the 'New World Order' described by Bush, Sr.

Or, in blunter terms, Communism. Reagan jumped on the bandwagon as if he brought down the regimes in Europe that remained after the WW2 occupation by the USSR by himself, but he didn't, they did it.

The conservative mouthpieces in Congress have fought for the US to not pay its membership dues to the United Nations for a number of years. Here is one example:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/international/un_reform/paying_dues.html

Since the 1990s, the black helicopter gang of punditry has said the UN will be the invading army that will occupy the USA and start gun confiscation and rounding up people for death camps, all of the liberty-loving patriots. A certain segment fo the public has grown up believing that the UN is out to get the USA.



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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:20 PM

3. It's something they throw at all Democrats

Being insecure authoritarians, the idea of the United States being a responsible member of a diplomatic group of equals pisses them off; we're here to rule, they believe. So the UN is evil. And since Democrats are evil too, Democrats must be in cahoots with hte UN and since both the UN and the Democrats hate America...

There's really no logic there. it's a jenga tower made of panic and bullshit.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:21 PM

4. Because they believe whatever they want to believe.

Climate denial. Evolution denial. Birtherism. You-name-it. They are completely evidence-proof.

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Response to Skinner (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:26 PM

10. Skinner - THIS I see every day!!! LOL

In Texas, I rub elbows every day with idiots who cannot be persuaded with simple knowledge!!! Nuh uh...we ain't interested in no fact checkin'...

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:39 PM

16. Beck is a master at this. He throws something outrageous - like his rant against empathy, and says

that anyone that argues with that, is lying. So he puts all the disclaimers in his lectures at Beck University (ugh) just as all the pundits do.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:21 PM

5. I've been hearing/reading their crazy UN shit for years, and I will never, ever, understand it,

since I know of nothing the UN has ever done that was 'bad', nor of any effort to take over anywhere, nor has any Dem ever talked of using them to do anything here. Here's my guess: many of them are paranoid, many of them think the US is the only country that matters, don't know much or give a shit about the rest of the world, and they (barely) know the UN is some kind of world-wide organization/body, so they (in those paranoid little minds) jump to the idea that because WE (our leaders) aren't as America-Only, we'd be all for the UN taking us over.
That's probably still not quite the explanation, but they're nuts anyway, so I doubt that I'd ever 'understand' their paranoid fantasies anyway ... but that's certainly what they are.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:23 PM

6. I really believe that the tea party is

The John Birch Society. Not is like, but is.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:23 PM

7. Because they're afraid someone will come and force them

To be normal, sane rational human beings.

The sad thing is, I'm being dead serious. The only consistent thought in their various diatribes is that they want America to rule the world so that everyone will be exactly like them. Guns, Jeebus and a world without education and fun.

They make it sound all stirring and patriotic, but they're afraid of world peace and no hungry people. Cool, huh?

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:25 PM

8. Because, not only are they bigoted, ill informed, terrified of change, and mean spirited,

 

they are staggeringly stupid as well.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:25 PM

9. I would guess that fundamentalist religion can answer this

Fundamentalists are very concerned about the "end times", in which the Antichrist will appear, and there will be a one-world government. The UN is hardly a one-world government, but to people with this paranoid streak in their thinking, it comes close.

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Response to flyingfysh (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:43 PM

19. That is a huge part of it. And the reason they don't care about climate change. God's punishment.

They are against abortion, gays, socialism, etc. as their way of saving themselves through the Rapture or going to Heaven when they die. So it's right down in survival for them.

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Response to flyingfysh (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:59 PM

26. Ah yes, the "Left Behind" novels deal with this!

I had forgotten about that

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:29 PM

11. Here's a real-life, first-hand example of The Crazy that my sister and I still Howl about...

circa 1957 or so ... small-town/rural Wayne, Nebraska ... my Dad would sign up both he and I for slots in their 24-hour Sky Watch, with binoculars, at the local puddle-jumper airport. We were ... I kid you not ... scouring the sky for incoming Russians. And it was the UN that was making this all possible. I did feel very important as a 9 year old. And yes, he was a Bircher.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:30 PM

12. Seriously, it's like the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:33 PM

13. It's an ongoing paranoid militia white supremacist fantasy, to scare loyalty into their idiots

Kooks like Glenn Beck and Alex Jones are among the latest promoters of this nonsense. It's based on nothing.

If your relative is making the claim, the best response is either ridicule or a demand for proof

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:44 PM

21. +1,000.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:36 PM

14. One of the few bright spots last night for NC

was that a batshit crazy Republican (is there any other kind) woman who believes this shit and was running for the state house in the 1st District lost. It came down to the wire, but the Democrat won that race. Praise Cheeses!

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Response to Island Blue (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:45 PM

22. Thanks for that bit of good news.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:38 PM

15. Yeah They don't like foreigners telling them what to do and think....

but they watch fox news....

Foreign owned, foreign financed, foreign benefiting multi-national news corp fox news is A-OK!

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Response to mikeysnot (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:46 PM

23. Another irony. And good part of why they think all alternatives to fossil fuels are bogus.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:41 PM

17. It's an over-exaggeration of our cooperation with the UN in the middle east. This is a hot point

of "fear of the other" that is used a lot in propaganda. If we would see any of our laws irrationally changed to satisfy a demand by the UN then maybe you could question. But as of now,from what we know about President Obama, I see no reason to doubt his resolve to work with the UN but keep our autonomy. He needed no one's approval to go into Pakistan and get Osama bin laden. He needs no permission to drone where ever he feels the need in order to protect us.

Step back and look at how we handle foreign affairs. We are large and in charge,yet we respect other countries and try to help them govern themselves. It's a good thing to be part of a good allegiance. Those allies will work with us have less irrational fear of us and that makes a secure a safer world. The USA is stronger and more respected and will be more followed because we are more trusted.

It is a very good thing to call on the UN to guard the radicals in this world.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:41 PM

18. Because the republican DC basement generated email said so. n/t

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:44 PM

20. Faux told them.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:52 PM

24. Trust me

There is no accounting for crazy. That's why it's called crazy.
I have a relative that *hates* the UN, is stockpiling guns, was glad when our state allowed them to be carried in church, thinks everything stated above... I tried to make a deal with him regarding communications (that they be non-political) and Still he continued to quote teabag blogs as if it was actual journalism and ask if Obama is the antichrist (backed up that one with Scripture, but it was yet another blog), believes Obama is a Muslim (he once stated that he hates nobody, just the muslims). Warned me about the Obama takeover... It's ridiculous. Now he's griping because Obama didn't go to New York and swears that his area didn't ask for food, shelter, etc. during a hurricane. I checked FEMA, and of course they did ask for help, and got it. Even did the travel trailers. And that was under W's reign. Did I mention he attends one of those fundaMENTAL churches? His whole life he's been a cantankerous and mean spirited "christian". He knows it all and it's very hard to even have a conversation because he does all the talking. And the talk is straight from Crazytown.

I have tried to talk sense and back up any (non-political) news with sources, but it goes on today. I have blocked his emails and never did facebook with him because of all this. I am tired of it all and he won't relent the craziness, so I guess I have a lost part of my whole family. And there are others in this with him.

It's crazy, and it doesn't HAVE to make sense. That's how you know it is crazy.
It makes you exhausted and sad. There is no making sense out of crazy.
I have seen a lot of this, and trust me... don't waste your time bothering to correct these people.
I am much happier without all of it.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:55 PM

25. because clinton did the same thing when he confiscated everyone's guns

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Response to frylock (Reply #25)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:05 PM

28. And screwed Monica to boot!!!!

In their minds, at least! LOL

(Sorry!) I cracked up at your post!!! Thanks for the laugh!

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #28)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:05 PM

31. that's my standard response when idiots spout off about confiscation of guns..

"shoot, really?! i just got my guns back from clinton, dammit!" it usually shuts them up. usually.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:04 PM

27. Sovereignty

They think the US is being threatened by European Socialism, which they feel is synonymous with the UN.

At heart, they don't want anything challenging American intervention in foreign countries. They see the UN as either an opposing force, or as a competitor to our "authority."

In addition, they are bat-shit crazy.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:08 PM

29. That's simple:

they are certifiably insane!

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:15 PM

30. This goes back to 1950's John Birch Society.

On the drive from Detroit to Lansing, there was always a sign along the road "Get the US out of the UN" at Howell, MI, an apparent hotbed of John Birch lunacy. The billboard was there for years.

These are the same idiological purists who are the core of the tea baggers, and the Republican party.

The JBS was always connected to more nefarious racist groups. They have found comfort in today's Republican party.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:13 PM

32. Tell them Hillary Clinton the Secretary of State

cannot enter into international treaties. Only congress can approve treaties. However, this won't work, because the right wing nut blogesphere has pronounced it true. Don't waste your time. Just take them to take their aluminum foil hats off. The election is over.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:26 PM

33. NRA!

the radical leaders of the NRA have been pushing the fiction that the UN is going to take away our guns to create fear and donations... think that's the source of this nonsense.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:36 PM

34. It's their ongoing psychological manipulation to create alternate stories to stir fear or outrage.

Your question is a fair, simple one, but the answer is far from simple. But there are answers.

First, what they're told is part of the machinery of manufacturing consent of the so-called governed in a so-called free society.

That machinery is built early. Faith-based childhood training through various institutions is used to keep people in line. Churches help the Republicans to see 'danger' to body or soul during the campaign period. Republican media help the Republicans to feel outrage over every 'immoral' or 'unjust' decision made during the governing period. It's pretty much the creating of a social culture. The fear and outrage switches just keep getting flipped.

Second, another psychological reality of oligarchic politics is that adrenaline is addictive. Overworked, stressed workers and their children are purposely confused by their party's particular 'fact set' used make media 'news' or 'reports' that seem orderly and rational in service of creating alternating fear or outrage. "Protection racket" stories abound in authoritarian societies when some profit from 'conning' others to trust the untrustworthy.

Other psychological frames are globally used: "Us/Them", "Good/Evil" "Faithfulness/Betrayal" dualities. These get used constantly to frame the "facts" presented, whether the 'story frame' is unfounded on facts, or whether the facts are taken out of contexts or simply distorted instead of clarified about their prevalence out in the world.

Third, it's a problem of knowing the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth grounded in facts as its foundation. Exposure -- experience and education -- is everything in determining the "maps" that people create of the world and the world of politics in it.

The most simple answer leads toward emotional habit, which gets dragged along from childhood. Emotional and mental habit formation stays with us into adulthood and people seek out the experiences and information that keep those habits enforced.

My attitude about WHY is this: understanding them is the booby prize. It's not our job to 'fix' them, but every little bit of our knowing why they think the way they do might help every now and then. After years of constantly trying that, I've pretty much decided that adults are responsible for their own constructive mental and emotional change. it's not the responsibility of the rest of us.

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Response to hamsterjill (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:32 PM

35. Because they're fucking idiots.

That's all you have to say to your relative. "You're a fucking idiot."

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