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[fun n serious]

This message was self-deleted by its author (fun n serious) on Sat Jun 25, 2016, 07:00 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Cooley Hurd]

1. Because it's not a living wage

[fun n serious]

3. It can be done. It's a big increase to what we currently have.

I think $12.00 is more reasonable and easier to put through. Some small towns and cities can not jump to $15 without it hurting business and cutting other people's jobs. Also, cutting hours that would affect medical benefits.

[Andy823]

8. I agree

$12.00 is better than nothing, and while I agree $15.00 is much better, I don' think $15.00 would pass in congress. As you stated, small towns and cities would be hard hit starting at $15.00, if it was $12.00 then voters in each state could try and get their states to raise it in larger cities that could afford it, like Seattle did. If people would put in the time to get the signatures to put raises on the ballot, and let the voters vote, they can get changes.

$12.00 can be done nationally, and it's a hell of a lot better than getting nothing if you start to high at $15.00.

[fun n serious]

9. It's nearly a $5 increase.

$15 would get shut down before it's even looked at. I live in Portland OR and we went to $15.00 on our own.

[Dustlawyer]

32. Bernie supported phasing into $15.00 per hour. That's good because it gives periods of adjustment,

but it goes to a living wage. Look how long $7.25 has been the minimum, there is a lot of ground to make up for, plus how long will it stay at $12.00 if the cap is $12.00. It will stay there for a long time! $15.00 would be better longer before it becomes too low. Business has been able to benefit from underpaying for labor for so long, why shouldn't they have to make up some ground?

In a state like Texas where we have more minimum wage jobs than any other state it would be dramatic. It might also help us turn blue when the effect boosts the Texas economy. Republicans would be hard pressed to continue to bitch about it when it would be so popular!

[SheilaT]

33. Portland, OR, minimum wage is currently $9.25

and will go up to $9.75 July 1, then $11.25 July 2017, finally $12 on July 1, 2015. Recently your mayor signed a bill that will raise your minimum to $14.75 by 2022. I have a son who lives in Portland and he is making $15/hour at a job that everywhere else would pay minimum wage, so I suspect that $15/hour is simply every common there. But it's not your legal minimum.

[fun n serious]

37. Yikes. You are right and those wages are not high enough...

I have 2 young adult children and both make above $15..

[Duckhunter935]

36. It's not 15 overnight

It's the end in several years. I wish people would acknowledge that.

[NWCorona]

2. With a $12 platform

Anyone want to bet on what the actual increase will end up being after the compromises? I'm betting $9.75 phased in over 2+ years.

[NWCorona]

6. You think there won’t be any "successful" negotiations on the final outcome?

Interesting.

[trueblue2007]

22. AND .... 12 NEEDS TO BE 12.00

WE NEED TO MARCH IN THE STREETS IF NEED BE.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

5. lol

words with no proof

[msongs]

7. if senators would stop spending so much on the MIC maybe a lot of things would change nt

[catnhatnh]

10. FDR 1936

“No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.”

[kerry-is-my-prez]

11. I'd like to see $15 but it's not realistic. Congress won't go for it.

[DemonGoddess]

12. ^^^This!!!

I also like indexing it to inflation. That means automatic INCREASES without Congressional approval.

[0rganism]

13. by the time Congress finished with a $12 min. wage proposal, we'd be lucky to get $8/hr

there's no benefit to lowballing it from the beginning; might as well start higher and negotiate down from there

[Ash_F]

14. You know Sander's plan is over 6 years?

A 63% majority of Americans support $15 over 4 years.

Sanders' plan is objectively to the right of 63% of Americans by 2 years.

$12 is waaaaaaaay to the right of the majority.

[fun n serious]

15. $15.00 min wage made it on the platform

From expanding social security, Wall Street, $15 min wage, NO death penalty, EITC and more ...

[Ash_F]

16. Yes I am very happy to hear that, but will wait for the language.

[fun n serious]

17. Ok.

Hillary is giving Bernie concessions..

[Ash_F]

18. I hope that she will also see that this is a winning position on its own merit.

That 63% surely includes many people who might be leaning towards Trump. A man who thinks there should be no minimum wage.

[fun n serious]

19. On her own platform she wanted to start at 12 right away

with increases... I'm happy she did this. I hope Bernie supporters will at least recognize her effort.

[Ash_F]

20. Are you sure she wanted to start at $12 right away?

That would be more ambitious than $15 over 6 years, and I actually would prefer that if it were true.

I am not saying I don't believe you. This is just the first I heard that.

[fun n serious]

21. That is what I am told

I will look into to be 100% sure though.

[joshcryer]

24. She advocated the $12 minimum wage over 4 years, as proposed by the EPI.

She has just been advocating what liberal think tanks have been advocating. There have been no studies on raising it to $15 over 6 years.

The $15 concession is likely not a big deal and they'd probably fall back to EPI's approach. Bring $15 over 6 to the table, accept $12 over 4. Since Republicans can't do math and we can fight hard to get back Congress, it may well pass.

Here's the EPI's page where they discuss, extensively, the $12 minimum wage: http://www.epi.org/research/minimum-wage/

Clinton says she supports the Senate Proposal, which is the same as the EPI's proposal: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-minumum-wage_us_57139f45e4b06f35cb6fd5da

Senate Proposal: http://fox61.com/2016/04/28/senate-democrats-proposing-boosting-minimum-wage-to-12/

Clinton's proposals are not that far removed from Sanders' mainly because the country has caught up to where Sanders is. Clinton goes with the safe policy stuff, as opposed to pressing for stuff, her whole staff is drafting everything, she looks it over, passes off on the "good ideas." A bureaucrat to the core.

I think a living wage would be $21 though, so it's still not getting us fully there. $15 is just bigger than $12 and is something to campaign on. edit: while replying in another thread I found the $21 figure, it's due to productivity increases, which makes a lot of sense, we can do a lot with less now: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/13/minimum-wage-productivity_n_2680639.html

And give us a basic income while we're at it...

[fun n serious]

29. Thank you!!

Very good information.

[Chathamization]

38. So it's in the platform but you want to see it taken out because you think it would hurt small towns

and small businesses?

[fun n serious]

39. No. It eases in over time and thats good.

[Chathamization]

40. Haven't all the proposals eased it in over time? I don't understand your argument about it hurting

small towns and businesses. OP seems like it's arguing against the $15 wage, but you're saying you're not?

[B Calm]

23. Discrimination against rural workers.

[My Good Babushka]

28. I agree with you

a wage is for work. It's not a charity allotment to be paid out depending on need. It's an insult to labor.

[bigwillq]

25. Because no one can live on $12/hr. $15 is not much better, but it's more than 12 (nt)

[JaneyVee]

26. Hillary is for $12/hr minimum with $15/hr in high COL areas.

The reason she is for $12/hr is because that is the current Dem senate bill that has huge consensus (among Dems not Repubs).

[fun n serious]

27. What is the consensus about do you know? nt

[JaneyVee]

30. It would easily pass if Dems had a majority.

The bill introduced by Patty Murray has broad Dem support http://fortune.com/2015/04/29/minimum-wage-congress-12-dollars/

And Hillary wants 12 as the floor with local efforts to go higher http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/15/bernie-s/does-hillary-clinton-want-15-or-12-minimum-wage/

[BlueMTexpat]

31. Here is one discussion of the bill

recently introduced in the Senate: https://newrepublic.com/article/121684/senate-democrats-proposal-raise-minimum-wage-12-has-one-risk There is also a House bill that was introduced last fall: https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/2150

These bills are why Hillary has used the $12/hr benchmark figure all along. That figure was already in these bill and wouldn't mean beginning the process from scratch if, by some miracle, the bills were able to move forward. This demonstrates a) how aware she is of what's actually going on in Congress and b) how she would coordinate closely with lawmakers rather than simply striking out ineffectively on her own tangent.

In this Congress - unless there is a sea change - ANY minimum wage increase will likely die a-borning.

I have no problem with $15/hr being in the Dem platform, concession or not. It's a stupid thing to fall on one's sword over and the minimum wage should be raised at least that much, IMO.

[CrowCityDem]

34. Something's wrong when the biggest increase ever is being called conservative, and 'not good enough'

[SheilaT]

35. One of the idiotic complaints about the $15 minimum wage

is that people pretend it's going to go into effect tomorrow, if not sooner.

All such proposals extend the time frame, and with intermediate steps, over four or six years.

I remember (reading about) when Henry Ford decided to double what his assembly line workers were making, paying then $5/day, all the other automobile company executives were outraged that he would do so. He understood the fundamental idea that his workers ought to be able to afford the product they were making. And it helped set in motion a prosperous working class.

In recent times, the heads of Walmart and Target are outraged that CostCo has always started its employees at a higher than minimum wage. And oddly enough, the company has far more loyal employees, who don't need to apply for food stamps to survive. And is still highly profitable.

A minimum wage that approaches a living wage is a good idea. And will not bankrupt companies they way its detractors claim.