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HerbChestnut

(3,649 posts)
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 01:39 AM Jun 2016

If Bernie/Hillary folks can't find common ground on *Electoral Reform* then we're in big trouble

This one should be a no-brainer, and yet there seems to be some real differences of opinion here. Automatic voter registration when turning 18 and Open Primaries is as simple as it gets. If we can't all support that then I don't even know where to start on healthcare, education, foreign policy, etc.

137 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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If Bernie/Hillary folks can't find common ground on *Electoral Reform* then we're in big trouble (Original Post) HerbChestnut Jun 2016 OP
Automatic voter registration is very different from open primaries La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2016 #1
some fight unity swhisper1 Jun 2016 #3
Some believe that only their ideas have value La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2016 #4
glad you agree with me swhisper1 Jun 2016 #9
I will never go against the wishes of the congressional black caucus on voting rights EVER La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2016 #38
I recognize what you are saying about the CBC, disenfranchisement and voting rights. avaistheone1 Jun 2016 #52
But the CBC has smarter priorities- getting rid of onerous voter ID laws and bettyellen Jun 2016 #55
You just called the Congressional Black Caucus "SACRED COWS" on Democratic Underground. Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #74
Actually I didn't. Read my post again. avaistheone1 Jun 2016 #83
Your meaning was conveyed perfectly. nt Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #85
The cbc commenting on voting rights is far more scared to me La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2016 #124
if La Lioness agreed with you on everything, then you'd both be wrong Sheepshank Jun 2016 #57
There are many who believe in "all or nothing" and would (apparently) rather have nothing ... NurseJackie Jun 2016 #58
But both candidates agreed on a $15 minimum wage and it was voted down. How does that floriduck Jun 2016 #76
What candidate other than Bernie has endorsed a $15 minimum wage? NorthCarolina Jun 2016 #136
I hear ya but Hillary did state in one of the later debates she, too, was for $15. She is or she floriduck Jun 2016 #137
Open primaries suck! Why should a Republican or Indy be able to vote for the Dem candidate? kerry-is-my-prez Jun 2016 #116
Why would I want open primaries, so those who aren't Democrats can decide who the Democratic nominee still_one Jun 2016 #126
Not in the land of identity politics tymorial Jun 2016 #127
what does 'identity politics' have to do with this? La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2016 #131
automatic registration is an answer to getting people to vote without disenfranchisement swhisper1 Jun 2016 #2
Both candidates want that. Hortensis Jun 2016 #25
Fuck open primaries, that's as easy as it gets... I've seen little need to reform what has worked in uponit7771 Jun 2016 #5
I'll say it again for you. Fuck open primaries. SaschaHM Jun 2016 #8
Open primaries make perfect sense to those Hortensis Jun 2016 #27
Many poor, PoC, gay, religious minorities are "establishment" democrats, tbh everytime I see that uponit7771 Jun 2016 #30
It's important for those who respect democracy Hortensis Jun 2016 #36
true uponit7771 Jun 2016 #37
Get out of my head, lol. Yeah, FUCK OPEN PRIMARIES X1,000,000,000,000 to the 10th Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #72
You want election reform, change the caucus's to primaries. I don't want someone who isn't a still_one Jun 2016 #128
+1 uponit7771 Jun 2016 #130
I disagree on open primaries. I don't want trouble makers voting for the worst The Second Stone Jun 2016 #6
Open primaries are uneccesary and unwise LongtimeAZDem Jun 2016 #7
As a resident of West Virginia who witnessed this behavior first-hand at the polls Lyric Jun 2016 #24
+1,000 AgadorSparticus Jun 2016 #132
^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^ LaydeeBug Jun 2016 #45
+1 Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #75
+1000! DemonGoddess Jun 2016 #97
In a DEMOCRACY you make it easy for everyone to vote. onecaliberal Jun 2016 #77
The purpose of the primaries DemonGoddess Jun 2016 #98
Primaries are held at state expense. That makes them the business of all voters in the state. merrily Jun 2016 #106
yes, primaries are held at state expense DemonGoddess Jun 2016 #108
Sorry, no. State expense makes primaries the business of all voters in the state. merrily Jun 2016 #110
It really doesn't DemonGoddess Jun 2016 #112
Sorry, your position makes no sense to me. It's about who pays, not whether it's a primary or a merrily Jun 2016 #113
I disagree. It is not just about who pays. It is about election integrity. AgadorSparticus Jun 2016 #133
Then have each party pay for its own exclusionary primary and its own party integrity. merrily Jun 2016 #135
Herding cats = Herding Democratic Party gordianot Jun 2016 #10
Not so bad these days, really. Remember, those sayings Hortensis Jun 2016 #28
We live in a post cold war world where everything is confused a major nexus in time. gordianot Jun 2016 #47
How can you be for automatic registration but against open primaries? kcjohn1 Jun 2016 #11
Closed primaries are not a barrier to vote in the General Election hack89 Jun 2016 #35
Not complicated kcjohn1 Jun 2016 #46
Conflating primaries with the GE is disingenuous. hack89 Jun 2016 #48
Its two party system kcjohn1 Jun 2016 #49
Ok. nt hack89 Jun 2016 #50
Why? Don't we want candidates that appeal to as many voters as possible? When Independents outnumber Vincardog Jun 2016 #78
If a Dem candidate appeals to an Independent hack89 Jun 2016 #79
Giving them a candidate to support is a motivator. Vincardog Jun 2016 #80
If your earlier statement is true, then apparently not much of a motivator. Nt. Amimnoch Jun 2016 #119
We are probably in big trouble... Silver_Witch Jun 2016 #12
In 2012 it looks like 21 States had open primary's. peace13 Jun 2016 #13
15 states has open primaries to allocate delegates this year Eric J in MN Jun 2016 #17
Thanks. peace13 Jun 2016 #22
It's not like there's a poll tax, just the need to register. tirebiter Jun 2016 #14
Open primaries are broadly opposed by many Democrats, though. Lord Magus Jun 2016 #15
we have an open primary...it's called the GENERAL election where you can write in your fave msongs Jun 2016 #16
+1000 kerry-is-my-prez Jun 2016 #122
I'm not as sure as you that all Democrats want to increase democratic access to the process Vote2016 Jun 2016 #18
The Congressional Black Caucus strongly opposes open primaries pnwmom Jun 2016 #19
No open primaries MFM008 Jun 2016 #20
Good luck with that thought Contrary1 Jun 2016 #21
I'm with the CBC. No open primaries. leftofcool Jun 2016 #23
Open Primaries ? Hell no, Democratic party Members only.......thanks. stonecutter357 Jun 2016 #26
No to Open Primaries and caucuses! No no no Her Sister Jun 2016 #29
Want to vote? Register. It's free. n/t kcjohn1 Jun 2016 #51
Progressives need to stick to their guns on the open primaries. Chan790 Jun 2016 #31
Our open primaries, in Virginia, always go without a hitch. w4rma Jun 2016 #62
You have less of a problem with crossover mischief LongtimeAZDem Jun 2016 #84
The primaries *should* be all on the same day. (nt) w4rma Jun 2016 #90
I agree, but even then LongtimeAZDem Jun 2016 #93
Have you seen the laws in some of these closed primary states? They prevent people from registering. w4rma Jun 2016 #94
You'll have to provide specifics for me to answer, LongtimeAZDem Jun 2016 #96
 New York Had the Second-Lowest Voter Turnout So Far This Election Season w4rma Jun 2016 #99
And none of the problems in the article were because of closed primaries themselves LongtimeAZDem Jun 2016 #100
All of the problems had to do with the closed primaries themselves. Registering for them is hard and w4rma Jun 2016 #101
Now there's an argument I can get behind. Amimnoch Jun 2016 #120
I'll chime in and say open primaries are a bad idea justiceischeap Jun 2016 #32
Some people think they'd sully their purity by joining a party. Lord Magus Jun 2016 #109
I'm not at all a fan of open primaries; party members should get to decide candidates Recursion Jun 2016 #33
Nothing simple or good about open primaries. hack89 Jun 2016 #34
At my caucus many who supported Sanders Evergreen Emerald Jun 2016 #39
The libertarian economic philosophy is the complete opposite of socialism, pnwmom Jun 2016 #70
weed. nt Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #88
Apparently it's addled their brains. If they have brains. n/t pnwmom Jun 2016 #89
Somebody at a kegger told them they should be a libertarian Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #91
Libertarian: a Republican who owns a bong. -nt- Lord Magus Jun 2016 #111
LOL (nt) LongtimeAZDem Jun 2016 #129
Ding! Ding! Ding! BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #71
Translation: I like weed. Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #86
hahaha that is pretty funny. n/t Evergreen Emerald Jun 2016 #87
The problem is that you're envisioning reform as one side as being completely and utterly right Blue_Adept Jun 2016 #40
Good response! BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #73
I'm a "no-brainer" then Yonnie3 Jun 2016 #41
No, it is not. randome Jun 2016 #56
Automatic voter registration when turning 18 workinclasszero Jun 2016 #42
We are not going to more open primaries, ever. Tarc Jun 2016 #43
No to Open Primaries, get rid of Caucus instead. And it's not necessary to be in complete agreement Lil Missy Jun 2016 #44
Agree. It's not and even silly to imagine Hortensis Jun 2016 #54
Curious, How much of that can be done without a state legislature and governors. Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #53
Neither of those proposals are in the control of the party Gothmog Jun 2016 #59
hidden insta8er Jun 2016 #60
No Open primaries and LESS Super delegates jzodda Jun 2016 #61
Automatic voter registration should be fine. LiberalFighter Jun 2016 #63
No open primaries. PAMod Jun 2016 #64
No Open primaries. fun n serious Jun 2016 #65
That way the DNC can dictate who the candidate will be AgingAmerican Jun 2016 #67
Explain this. fun n serious Jun 2016 #81
No brainer Andy823 Jun 2016 #66
no open primaries. zappaman Jun 2016 #68
That appears to be exactly what they did in West Virginia (nt) LongtimeAZDem Jun 2016 #103
Open primaries - NEVER!! BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #69
Your concern is noted n/t NastyRiffraff Jun 2016 #82
Right? nt Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #92
automatic registration, sure DemonGoddess Jun 2016 #95
You can't have automatic registration without open primaries. It is either both or neither. w4rma Jun 2016 #102
When people say automatic registration they mean the general election La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2016 #121
It's not simple at all. CrowCityDem Jun 2016 #104
Yeah, to lower turnout and protect incumbents. (nt) w4rma Jun 2016 #105
No, to let Democrats choose who represented the Democratic Party. Lord Magus Jun 2016 #114
I gave valid reasoning. You chose to see something that wasn't there. CrowCityDem Jun 2016 #117
I'm a little disappointed. Skid Rogue Jun 2016 #107
This message was self-deleted by its author Still In Wisconsin Jun 2016 #115
Honestly... Skid Rogue Jun 2016 #123
Automatic voter registration is great. To hell with open primaries. Amimnoch Jun 2016 #118
I agree...but riversedge Jun 2016 #125
autovoter registration, OK, but we don't need open primaries and ending superdelegates ericson00 Jun 2016 #134
 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
1. Automatic voter registration is very different from open primaries
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 01:42 AM
Jun 2016

People can agree on some things and disagree on others.

You seem to think that one has to agree with all your ideas for unity. I'm not sure why that is. Obviously we disagreed on some things which is why we picked different candidates

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
38. I will never go against the wishes of the congressional black caucus on voting rights EVER
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:43 AM
Jun 2016

They represent those who have truly faced voter disenfranchisement and not this new hipster 'I'm too cool to register with the dem, but I'm disenfranchised if I'm not allowed to vote in their party'. No democrat should go against the wishes of the Cbc on voting rights.

 

avaistheone1

(14,626 posts)
52. I recognize what you are saying about the CBC, disenfranchisement and voting rights.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:00 AM
Jun 2016

However, there are no sacred cows or sacred people. CBC are political people and political people sometimes do things for their own reasons and as such they are capable of using their power and influence inappropriately. I think a good example is the CBC endorsement of super delegates, which I strongly believe undermines our democracy. Therefore I am diametrically opposed to the CBC on this issue. I don't resign my thinking to the CBC or to any individual or group.






 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
55. But the CBC has smarter priorities- getting rid of onerous voter ID laws and
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:05 AM
Jun 2016

I think caucuses are a much bigger problem than the super delegates. And disagree about open primaries, am not for them.

Maru Kitteh

(28,333 posts)
74. You just called the Congressional Black Caucus "SACRED COWS" on Democratic Underground.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:40 PM
Jun 2016

What the blueberry f*k has happened here?

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
124. The cbc commenting on voting rights is far more scared to me
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:01 AM
Jun 2016

Than people who lost the primary advocating for something that hurts black voters.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
58. There are many who believe in "all or nothing" and would (apparently) rather have nothing ...
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 12:20 PM
Jun 2016

... instead of finding common ground. I never really understood it myself. Aside from one's personal pride and satisfaction is being able to say "I-stood-firm" ... is that really a good alternative to making some progress instead of NO progress?

I guess some folks have different priorities that are more related to vanity and denying their adversaries any compromise ... they see anything short of total victory as being a "defeat" of some sort.



PS: I like automatic registration as well. Everyone should be automatically registered to vote in the General Election. THAT'S what I call making it easy! But when it comes to choosing a PARTY NOMINEE, the voter should at least be a MEMBER of the party! (And if you think about it, it's not that hard to do.)

 

floriduck

(2,262 posts)
76. But both candidates agreed on a $15 minimum wage and it was voted down. How does that
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:48 PM
Jun 2016

happen? I'm confused.

 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
136. What candidate other than Bernie has endorsed a $15 minimum wage?
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 12:18 PM
Jun 2016

Clinton is loosely for $12 in some areas last I heard, after being pushed to that in response to Bernie's call for $15.

 

floriduck

(2,262 posts)
137. I hear ya but Hillary did state in one of the later debates she, too, was for $15. She is or she
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:42 PM
Jun 2016

isn't. The platform resistance says she was just saying that but didn't mean it.

kerry-is-my-prez

(8,133 posts)
116. Open primaries suck! Why should a Republican or Indy be able to vote for the Dem candidate?
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:44 PM
Jun 2016

Especially a Republican. I know people who like to screw with the opposing party in the primaries. And if you're an independent, stop dicking around and register as a Democrat.

still_one

(92,108 posts)
126. Why would I want open primaries, so those who aren't Democrats can decide who the Democratic nominee
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:39 AM
Jun 2016

is?

No thank you

tymorial

(3,433 posts)
127. Not in the land of identity politics
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:43 AM
Jun 2016

Where univeral agreement does not permit nuance and questioning any portion of the collective thought elicits a response reminiscent of the borg.

I would insert sarcasm but I am not being sarcastic.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
25. Both candidates want that.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:25 AM
Jun 2016

Just being registered won't get many more people to vote, though. After all, registration has been traditionally extremely easy in most places, for most but not all groups, and look at our people's deplorable history. Those who feel it is their responsibility and care enough to put it on their to-do lists vote.

uponit7771

(90,323 posts)
5. Fuck open primaries, that's as easy as it gets... I've seen little need to reform what has worked in
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 01:52 AM
Jun 2016

... the past outside of the non democratic caucus process.

It's already been explained ad nausea that open primaries allow too much outside influence and little to no practical retort to the claim

SaschaHM

(2,897 posts)
8. I'll say it again for you. Fuck open primaries.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 01:53 AM
Jun 2016

You want to shape the agenda, choose the nominee, and lead the party? Join the damn party then. I didn't get to choose the Green, Libertarian, or Republican candidates, I don't expect them to choose the Democratic one.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
27. Open primaries make perfect sense to those
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:41 AM
Jun 2016

who believe it is vitally important to replace "establishment" Democratic voters with those who are currently too honorable and disgusted to join such a morally bankrupt party. Of course, some of us are not so confident that would be an improvement, and so we respectfully disagree.

uponit7771

(90,323 posts)
30. Many poor, PoC, gay, religious minorities are "establishment" democrats, tbh everytime I see that
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:57 AM
Jun 2016

... I think too many "others".

To many people whining about the "others" sharing power so it time to reduce their power by having open primaries and reducing the role of the SDs

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
36. It's important for those who respect democracy
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:11 AM
Jun 2016

to remember that behind the labels are actually many millions of people with their own beliefs and rights. Forgetting that is inimical to democracy.

Maru Kitteh

(28,333 posts)
72. Get out of my head, lol. Yeah, FUCK OPEN PRIMARIES X1,000,000,000,000 to the 10th
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:31 PM
Jun 2016

Everyone is invited to the party, but if you can't be bothered to RSVP, don't act all shocked and put out when the menu items are chosen for you.

still_one

(92,108 posts)
128. You want election reform, change the caucus's to primaries. I don't want someone who isn't a
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 10:43 AM
Jun 2016

Democrat, having a say in telling who the Democratic nominee should be

 

The Second Stone

(2,900 posts)
6. I disagree on open primaries. I don't want trouble makers voting for the worst
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 01:52 AM
Jun 2016

candidate. I want party members choosing the party candidate. Not non-party members and the opposition.

So if that is a demand from the non-party members, yeah, unity is going to be trouble.

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
7. Open primaries are uneccesary and unwise
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 01:52 AM
Jun 2016

There is no reason to allow anyone to vote in a primary if they are not part of the party; opening them just invites deliberate meddling by party opponents, as we saw in West Virginia.

Lyric

(12,675 posts)
24. As a resident of West Virginia who witnessed this behavior first-hand at the polls
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:14 AM
Jun 2016

I totally agree. I couldn't say a word about it at the time, but the Trumpeteers leaving our polling place laughing about voting for Sanders was infuriating. I truly believe that the Trump campaign deliberately orchestrated that whole fiasco. I know for a FACT that Trump's campaign tried to hire people to sit at polling places in Trump gear and talk to voters about something, because one of Rhythm's co-workers has a son who supports Trump and he attempted to do precisely that. Of course he got thrown off the property because apparently Trump supporters are too stupid to understand election laws. But when it comes to sabotage and deceit, they're awfully good at THAT.

I saw that not only are open primaries terrible, but last minute voter registration is terrible. Voters in primaries should have to be registered at LEAST 3 months before the election, with the SOLE exception being for people who have physically moved during that time frame and need to register at their new address. 90 days. WV doesn't have an open primary, but we DO have the ability to change your registration 30 days before a primary. Get rid of that crap. I'm tired of Repukes and crazy white supremacists screwing with our primaries. Our school board and judicial elections are a nightmare because of this crap, even if you ignore what happened at the national level.

 

LaydeeBug

(10,291 posts)
45. ^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:35 AM
Jun 2016

I will fight tooth and nail against open primaries. You want to be a part of our process? Be a part of our party.

onecaliberal

(32,811 posts)
77. In a DEMOCRACY you make it easy for everyone to vote.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:48 PM
Jun 2016

Newsflash: There are more Indies than republicans or democrats. They are going to vote in the general, disenfranchising them during the primary is a fools errand. Give people something to for FOR. Stop screwing people, stop supporting corporations to the detriment of the country.

DemonGoddess

(4,640 posts)
98. The purpose of the primaries
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:34 PM
Jun 2016

is to select a PARTY's nominee. Not the Independent/Green/Libertarian/Socialist/etc nominee. Those groups have their own selections, NOT open to Democrats. Why the hell should we open ours? You want to select the nominee of a party, join the damn party. Easy.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
106. Primaries are held at state expense. That makes them the business of all voters in the state.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:21 PM
Jun 2016

If they are held at state expense all voters in the state should have something to say about the rules for voting in a primary.

If the parties want to make their own rules for primaries and be that exclusionary, then the parties need to pay for the primaries.

DemonGoddess

(4,640 posts)
108. yes, primaries are held at state expense
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:33 PM
Jun 2016

for EACH PARTY. They're for the selection of the PARTY nominee. They are not general elections. Thing is, they're usually also bundled with the LOCAL primaries. Some states hold separate ones for local, but most of them do it all at once.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
110. Sorry, no. State expense makes primaries the business of all voters in the state.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:35 PM
Jun 2016

They should decide the rules for primary voting. Any party that want to decide the rules for its own party is free to pay for its own primary.

DemonGoddess

(4,640 posts)
112. It really doesn't
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:36 PM
Jun 2016

In that case, it becomes a general election, not a selection of a party nominee, for whatever office. Or would you rather we went back to the old days where no one had any voice at all in selecting the nominee? I wouldn't.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
113. Sorry, your position makes no sense to me. It's about who pays, not whether it's a primary or a
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:38 PM
Jun 2016

Last edited Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:28 PM - Edit history (1)

general. Anything that the state does at public expense should not be dictated by any party. In my state over half the registered voters are "unenrolled" in any party.

AgadorSparticus

(7,963 posts)
133. I disagree. It is not just about who pays. It is about election integrity.
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 11:53 AM
Jun 2016

And you can't have integrity when you have Republicans voting for a democratic nominee and vice versa. Making people pick a party is not the same as telling them they can't vote.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
135. Then have each party pay for its own exclusionary primary and its own party integrity.
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 12:14 PM
Jun 2016

Making each party get exactly what it wants is not the financial responsibility of state taxpayers. That's where I started this discussion. See Reply 106.

Parties want to have it both ways, with taxpayers bearing the expense, parties calling the shots and judges saying internal party business is private stuff, not reviewable by a court. Well. fsck that. Pay for them and call all the shots, or have taxpayers pay for more democratic primaries, one or the other.

gordianot

(15,236 posts)
10. Herding cats = Herding Democratic Party
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:06 AM
Jun 2016

Some have tried with varying success. Just look at DU a similar struggle on smaller scale. There is no way I could ever be a Republican conformist so I am stuck with being a Democrat.

The Democratic Party has always been very diverse in opinion, and will always be subject to chaotic rules.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
28. Not so bad these days, really. Remember, those sayings
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:51 AM
Jun 2016

came from the days when some of the strongest conservatives in the nation, the Southern Conservative faction, were Democrats because they despised Republicans from the north even more than the larger liberal democratic faction. We were constantly having to join with moderate Republicans to outvote the knuckledraggers in our own party.

Of course, we now face a mostly united conservative front, with a fairly authoritarian top-down hierarchy and the far right dominating, a grim and dangerous reality, but at least those first-class troublemakers are no longer Democrats.

Today's Democratic Party is a collection of "identity politics" factions who are most at least leaning left, though some conservatives are still Democrats. One thing Bernie has done for us is remind us that we need to focus our energies on our collective liberal goals more and less on our various identities. Yes, we're great as far as it goes because we're the diverse American party that unites most groups, but!

gordianot

(15,236 posts)
47. We live in a post cold war world where everything is confused a major nexus in time.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:50 AM
Jun 2016

American Conservatives live without communist international threat they actually embrace a former Communist Russian and current dictator, Capitalist oligarchs have picked up the Communist international consolidation with secret negotiation trade deals, an American Socialist Democrat runs for high office as basically an American Nationalist opposing international economic consolidation, a Democratic career bureaucrat almost instantly embraces the positions of her former rival and may actually join with another Democratic icon whose main cause opposes Wall Street the source of the Democratic bureaucrat's political power, a political party reviled by its constituents for being spineless takes over floor of the people's house in an act of open and probably illegal rebellion, one of the most conservative political parties on Earth selects as it's Presidential candidate a radical con man with no real political experience and a serious narcissistic personality disorder.

SO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY CANNOT FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO A PRIMARY OR REFORM ...

.GO FIGURE

kcjohn1

(751 posts)
11. How can you be for automatic registration but against open primaries?
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:11 AM
Jun 2016

The whole point of automatic registration is to stop barrier to voting. Having to register for party prior hand before election is burdensome barrier.

I think all primaries should be semi-open. If you are registered as independent you should be able vote for either parties. If closed, you should be able change affiliation at voting booth.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
35. Closed primaries are not a barrier to vote in the General Election
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:11 AM
Jun 2016

if you want to help a political party pick a nominee then you need to join the party. Not complicated.

kcjohn1

(751 posts)
46. Not complicated
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:48 AM
Jun 2016

If you want to vote, you need register.

If you want to vote, get an voter idea.

Sounds very Republicans. This fear of cross over voters with GOPers sabotaging is similar to fears of voting fraud

hack89

(39,171 posts)
48. Conflating primaries with the GE is disingenuous.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:51 AM
Jun 2016

there should be as few barriers to vote in the GE as possible. Allowing political parties to pick their own candidates is a completely separate issue - you don't need to be part of one to participate in the other.

kcjohn1

(751 posts)
49. Its two party system
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:55 AM
Jun 2016

These aren't some small hobby private clubs.

If the primaries has similar voter turnout as in the general you wouldn't have candidates like Trump/Hillary who are uniformly hated by the voting population.

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
78. Why? Don't we want candidates that appeal to as many voters as possible? When Independents outnumber
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:56 PM
Jun 2016

Democrats why oppose them getting involved?
Don't we all want the party to grow?
How can it grow without getting new people involved?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
79. If a Dem candidate appeals to an Independent
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:02 PM
Jun 2016

Then that Independent should be motivated to become a Dem. It is not that hard.

tirebiter

(2,535 posts)
14. It's not like there's a poll tax, just the need to register.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 02:58 AM
Jun 2016

We're talking about intraparty elections not general referendums.

Lord Magus

(1,999 posts)
15. Open primaries are broadly opposed by many Democrats, though.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 03:01 AM
Jun 2016

We don't want Republican saboteurs to be invading our nominating process.

pnwmom

(108,972 posts)
19. The Congressional Black Caucus strongly opposes open primaries
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 03:54 AM
Jun 2016

because in too many districts it will dilute the voting strength of minority voters, who are already dealing with gerrymandered districts.

So it isn't as simple as it may appear.

Some people think that declaring oneself to be a Democrat, at least for a month before the primary, isn't too much to ask.

Contrary1

(12,629 posts)
21. Good luck with that thought
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 04:33 AM
Jun 2016

All one needs to do is check out the Sanders forum. Most are gone. With entire threads disappearing, who can blame them?



 

Her Sister

(6,444 posts)
29. No to Open Primaries and caucuses! No no no
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:53 AM
Jun 2016

Wanna vote in the Democratic Primary, JOIN! It's free to join.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
31. Progressives need to stick to their guns on the open primaries.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:58 AM
Jun 2016

They're worth walking away from any effort for common ground over.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
62. Our open primaries, in Virginia, always go without a hitch.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 12:49 PM
Jun 2016

The fear of open primaries is solely an incumbent protection plan.

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
93. I agree, but even then
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:59 PM
Jun 2016

if your own party has sewn up the nomination, you are free to influence the other.

Regardless, registration lets the parties know who their constituents are. "Independents" run the full spectrum if ideologies from left to right, and polls show that most independents are center-right. So, if the party has to look outside of their registered base, that is who they will try to appeal to.

If self-described progressives want to pull the party to the left, then they need to sign up and be counted; otherwise, candidates will be forced to look elsewhere.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
94. Have you seen the laws in some of these closed primary states? They prevent people from registering.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:06 PM
Jun 2016

They prevent young people from voting in primaries. They have the lowest turnouts of any primary elections in the entire nation. You can't support that and call yourself democratic.

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
96. You'll have to provide specifics for me to answer,
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:32 PM
Jun 2016

but even if you are correct, those are problems with registration, and have nothing to do with crossover voting.

I can say that in Arizona, it is ridiculously easy to register to vote; you can even do it online.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
99.  New York Had the Second-Lowest Voter Turnout So Far This Election Season
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:38 PM
Jun 2016

As a result, only 19.7 percent of eligible New Yorkers cast a ballot, the second-lowest voter turnout among primary states after Louisiana, according to elections expert Michael McDonald. There were over 900 calls from frustrated voters to the Election Protection Coalition, more than in any other primary state.
https://www.thenation.com/article/new-york-had-the-second-lowest-voter-turnout-so-far-this-election-season/

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
100. And none of the problems in the article were because of closed primaries themselves
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:43 PM
Jun 2016

New York has major problems with their voter registration, but that in no way is an argument for open primaries at all.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
101. All of the problems had to do with the closed primaries themselves. Registering for them is hard and
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:44 PM
Jun 2016

is easy to manipulate. Two very high ranking election officials were caught manipulating registrations and were suspended, without pay, for it. They are expected to be fired.

 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
120. Now there's an argument I can get behind.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:20 PM
Jun 2016

I'm completely opposed to open primaries, but I do agree it should be easy for those who want to register Democrat and join in the primary process.

I found registering Democratic Party, and staying that way for more than a couple of decades very easy where I live. If the laws in some states are making it difficult to declare yourself a Democratic Party voter, that should be a common ground/common cause goal to change it.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
32. I'll chime in and say open primaries are a bad idea
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:06 AM
Jun 2016

Seriously, if Indies want to participate in closed primaries, change your damn status prior to the primary. It really is that simple but instead people complain about closed primaries because they're too lazy to change their affiliation.


Lord Magus

(1,999 posts)
109. Some people think they'd sully their purity by joining a party.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:35 PM
Jun 2016

I really don't see any reason for the Democratic Party to cater to such nonsense.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
33. I'm not at all a fan of open primaries; party members should get to decide candidates
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:06 AM
Jun 2016

Automatic voter registration I'm 100% in favor of.

Evergreen Emerald

(13,069 posts)
39. At my caucus many who supported Sanders
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:48 AM
Jun 2016

said they were libertarian would never support a democrat (other than Sanders).

pnwmom

(108,972 posts)
70. The libertarian economic philosophy is the complete opposite of socialism,
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:30 PM
Jun 2016

so those people are idiots.

Or maybe they came as disrupters. Hurting Hillary in the primary would assist Johnson in the general.

Maru Kitteh

(28,333 posts)
91. Somebody at a kegger told them they should be a libertarian
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:45 PM
Jun 2016

They said "What's a libertarian?

"you can smoke all the weed you want man"

"cool. I'm a fucking libertarian."

"right on"

Maru Kitteh

(28,333 posts)
86. Translation: I like weed.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:33 PM
Jun 2016

No serious libertarian would be on board with free healthcare for all, free college for all and $15 minimum wage. Libertarians already think republicans are way too liberal on these kinds of issues.

Blue_Adept

(6,397 posts)
40. The problem is that you're envisioning reform as one side as being completely and utterly right
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:53 AM
Jun 2016

And as you'll see even in this thread, several Bernie supporters of various persuasions are NOT in favor of what's claimed as being desired.

Automatic registration? YES PLEASE

Open primaries? Those with lengthy experience in how primaries work beyond this singular experience are largely (not entirely) against it. There are variations to be sure.

But you know what? The way to change it? You have to work within the STATE. Primary designs are NOT controlled by the "Party" as a whole or the DNC. It's entirely the state or state party itself.

So get involved locally. And remember that what works for YOU may not work for ME. New York does what it does, MA does what it does, and largely people are generally pretty pleased by how it unfolds.

Yonnie3

(17,427 posts)
41. I'm a "no-brainer" then
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 08:54 AM
Jun 2016

No caucuses - because they are difficult for many of our party members to express their choice.
No open primaries - semi-open maybe. I want Democrats controlling their candidate choice.

BTW: Telling people that you want to agree with you that it is a "no-brainer" to disagree with you is really not a good way to start a discussion.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
42. Automatic voter registration when turning 18
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:01 AM
Jun 2016

I could support but never open primaries.

Why the hell should republicans, greens and independents have a say over who the democratic candidate is going to be?

Thats BS IMO.

And what about totally un-democratic caucuses? They should be abolished immediately!

No outrage over that eh?

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
43. We are not going to more open primaries, ever.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:06 AM
Jun 2016

If you want to vote in the Democratic Party primaries, then you can damned well find them time to register.

Lil Missy

(17,865 posts)
44. No to Open Primaries, get rid of Caucus instead. And it's not necessary to be in complete agreement
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:27 AM
Jun 2016

with Bernie supporters.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
54. Agree. It's not and even silly to imagine
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:21 AM
Jun 2016

there should be.

Most Bernie and Hillary supporters actually agreestrongly on most issues, anyway. There are a few, like our OP, who see almost nothing but points of disagreement, and that is their opinion.

Btw, Bernie said earlier that he will vote for Hillary because defeating the Republicans is our top priority. believe that is about as far as he will go in supporting her.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
53. Curious, How much of that can be done without a state legislature and governors.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:10 AM
Jun 2016

The state parties can decide to use a caucus or a primary, but automatic voter registration and open or closed primaries appear to be in the hands of state legislatures.

I like California style semi-open primaries. Let independents and decline to state voters join the Democratic Party by requesting a Democratic Primary Ballot.
For State Offices, I also like the top to winners in the primary are the candidates in the general.

Gothmog

(145,046 posts)
59. Neither of those proposals are in the control of the party
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 12:34 PM
Jun 2016

The CBC is strongly against open primaries and the CBC has far more clout than Sanders

jzodda

(2,124 posts)
61. No Open primaries and LESS Super delegates
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 12:41 PM
Jun 2016

Open primaries lend themselves to republican tricks. Rush limbaugh in 2008 lead something called "operation chaos" a plan to cause havoc and extend the primary between Clinton and Obama. Since then its been simple for me.

As to delegates we certainly don't need 700! Limit it to members of Congress and governors and maybe cabinet officials. That's still close to if not more than 300.

Compromise! Or we are all the losers.

LiberalFighter

(50,825 posts)
63. Automatic voter registration should be fine.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 01:17 PM
Jun 2016

Just work out the fine details such as when a person moves so that their registration is transferred to their new address automatically too.

Open primaries is not acceptable. Voters need to determine the party they will belong to. And only they get to decide their nominee.

PAMod

(906 posts)
64. No open primaries.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 01:33 PM
Jun 2016

You want to participate in a primary, join the party. Far as I know, we've never turned anyone away from joining.

 

fun n serious

(4,451 posts)
65. No Open primaries.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 01:35 PM
Jun 2016

Democrats pick their democratic nominee. I do not see why people can not register as a dem.

 

fun n serious

(4,451 posts)
81. Explain this.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:22 PM
Jun 2016

I mean, why not register as a dem? Otherwise we would not be democrats in a democratic party. Name change to the indy party next?

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
66. No brainer
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:17 PM
Jun 2016

Get rid of caucuses, automatic voter registration at 18, and NO open primaries. I also think voting by mail, as we do in Washington state, is also a good idea.

zappaman

(20,606 posts)
68. no open primaries.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:28 PM
Jun 2016

By the time CA voted, Trump was the nominee.
Why would we want Trump supporters voting for the weaker Dem candidate?
Cuz you know they would if they could, right?

BlueMTexpat

(15,365 posts)
69. Open primaries - NEVER!!
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:28 PM
Jun 2016

If one wants to vote for a primary candidate, one should be registered in the party for the candidate they vote for. Period.

Otherwise, why even bother to have a primary election cycle?

This has ONLY been an issue in 2016. I wonder why.

DemonGoddess

(4,640 posts)
95. automatic registration, sure
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:28 PM
Jun 2016

but no open contests. Thing is, with automatic registration, they damn well better educate these young voters as to what they need to do when it comes to voting, and not just every 4 years.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
102. You can't have automatic registration without open primaries. It is either both or neither.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:46 PM
Jun 2016

You can't be "automatically" registered to vote in the primaries if you have to openly choose a party.

 

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
104. It's not simple at all.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 09:56 PM
Jun 2016

I don't want to be looking at a scenario where we are facing an incumbent Republican, and every member of their party can vote for our weakest candidate to help them win. That would be absurd. Closed primaries have a very real purpose

Lord Magus

(1,999 posts)
114. No, to let Democrats choose who represented the Democratic Party.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:39 PM
Jun 2016

Why should Republicans get to vote on who the Democratic nominee is?

Skid Rogue

(711 posts)
107. I'm a little disappointed.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:30 PM
Jun 2016

I don't want Sanders to have much of a say about how our primaries are conducted. I don't think he likes our party very much. However, with an issue like the minimum wage we need to aim high, because the arrow will always land lower.

Response to Skid Rogue (Reply #107)

Skid Rogue

(711 posts)
123. Honestly...
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:31 PM
Jun 2016

Simply answer. American families need a bigger income. If we aimed at 20 dollars an hour, we'd probably get 12. Unfortunately, it really won't be up to the President.

 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
118. Automatic voter registration is great. To hell with open primaries.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:52 PM
Jun 2016

They should all be closed primaries, and I'm good with that not going into effect until 2014 so that it can't just be a benefit Hillary statement.

If you want to vote in a DEMOCRATIC primary, then have the strength of character to declare yourself a DEMOCRAT. If not, you have the right to vote for whomever you want in the GE.

The Democratic Party is NOT a government body or entity. There are no rights to vote to determine who is on Democratic party tickets. Democrats should decide who runs on Democratic party tickets.

You want to be an independent or non affiliated. That's everyones right, I support that right, but if you choose to go that route, then you don't deserve to have any voice at all in the selection of candidates who are in the party that I proudly declare myself a part of.

 

ericson00

(2,707 posts)
134. autovoter registration, OK, but we don't need open primaries and ending superdelegates
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 11:57 AM
Jun 2016

the GOP's nomination of Trump should show us why Superdelegates exist in the first place.

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