Is anyone else surprised at how suddenly important email and national security is to Progressives?

[MariaThinks]

What used to be important to us:
- jobs
- climate change
- health care
- fairness in elections
- equal pay/equal work
- female rights.


with Hillary running, the two things that seem to be defining are:

1. Benghazi - which was the most important criteria to judge Hillary, until the republican insiders spilled the beans and admitted it was a made up scandal.
2. email.

If only it wasn't for the email server, we could all be happy. It seems to be the biggest foreign policy blunder of all time. Not Iraq, Not 911. Email server with retroactive top secret attributions.

[morningfog]

1. Straw man.

[floriduck]

8. And that straw man is naked as a jay bird.

[cali]

12. Embarrassingly bad op

[Ned_Devine]

2. Those issues are all still important. And yes, Iraq was the greatest FP blunder and HRC voted for it

[leveymg]

3. You weren't around here after 9/11 and when the Iraq War started.

National security has always been important to Progressives.

In fact, your community memory is very short, indeed.

[TheBlackAdder]

58. I saw the second plane hit, the towers go down, lost some Port Authority friends. Fuck this OP!

.


This OP gives the impression that backs up RW propaganda, that Progressives don't care about security.


.

[leveymg]

79. I was in traffic near National Airport and saw the smoke rising from the Pentagon. I agree.

Life hasn't been the same, and justice still hasn't been done. These continuous acts of official wrongdoing and the utter lack of accountability at the top vex us deeply.

[scscholar]

4. Government secrets stand against the people (ntxt)

[randome]

5. Not if your name is Snowden. Then it's all "Freedom! Authoritarians! Fascists!"

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Aerows]

21. If your name is Aerows and you wrote to Patrick Leahy

in 2006 in regards to Bush/Cheney documentation that "disappeared", then it should not surprise you that someone named Aerows is concerned about it now.

It's funny how a private citizen can keep better records than public servants that are required by law to keep such records.

This has as much to do with Edward Snowden as a fart in a tornado, but drag him into it anyway as some lightning rod that has nothing to do with public servants being unable to maintain the records that they are by law supposed to maintain.

Maybe you can yell something about the Pope, chairs being thrown and a Senator being afraid for her life (but not due to sniper fire).

[randome]

29. Your consistency is commendable. Others' not so much.

The intense interest in government record retention policy, however, directly mirrors the mood of that long-ago sojourn of Edward Snowden. And by 'mirrors', I mean reflects an image that is the exact opposite of the original.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Aerows]

42. LOL!

That's the best response you have to my statement?

Wave that Snowden lightning rod, randome, maybe someone will try and help you make that dog ... hunt.

[G_j]

50. anyone remember Valerie Plame?

seems there was a lot of concern about that also..

[randome]

57. Yeah, there was.

Deliberate outing of a spy versus giving national security documents to foreign corporations versus a SOS not following all the rules.

What do those 3 things have in common? Nothing. Only 2 of them have any illegality -and proven consequences- attached to them.

Clinton may not have been very 'clever' in using a private server but no one can demonstrate that any harm was caused. Yet because Sanders might benefit from seeing her as a criminal, her situation merits just as much outrage as the Valerie Plame leak. smh.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[G_j]

59. The question was about progressives

and national security concerns.

[R B Garr]

26. LMAO! So true. Looks like their duplicity is on full display.

[Aerows]

43. Oh my.

You sure told me about duplicity on full display!

[Fawke Em]

32. Snowden was trying to expose bad behavior - some of it criminal.

Clinton was hiding emails from FOIA requests.

Two very different things.

To be honest, if we had better whistleblower laws, Snowden could have made those poor practices public without having to run for his life.

[Armstead]

33. Both have to do with transparency and procedures

Personally I don't have an emotinal investment in the email thing.

But there are procedures for a reason, which is in part to protect security while also keeping officials accountable for their actions.

The e-mails are symptomatic of the "above the normal rules" assumptions of the Clintons.

[highprincipleswork]

6. We are overwhelming interested in your list, but many don't believe Hillary will deliver Progressive

results in those areas.

The e-mail server. No, I wish she would be defeated in terms of the issues you discuss, but I will not ignore the fact that she is under serious FBI investigation. Do I care so much about this? No, but I care about national security, and it doesn't take much investigation frankly to see that what she did was wrong, unauthorized, and likely put government secrets in jeopardy. Also clear is that any ordinary person would probably already be in deep, deep trouble.

Frankly, I worry about her becoming the nominee and then having her candidacy trashed by this along with Democratic chances.
I worry about this even if she is not indicted, because it doesn't take much of a negative report to smear her campaign.

[IdaBriggs]

7. Sigh. The email and server are evidence that she has issues following the rules

and telling the truth. They reflect on her views about government transparency and world peace.

We have actual laws in place to hold government officials accountable, which include keeping government records accessible to FOIA requests and classified information safe.

The Benghazi hearings happened because she had a staff member repeat lies on national television slamming a movie as the cause of an attack on an embassy. When they started the scold campaign, they opened up a can of worms that provided data on a person with zero clearance emailing NSA and CIA reports, and it appears that we were holding prisoners for transfer to facilities that allow torture, and oh, it turns out the Secretary of State was breaking a few laws, too. Finding these things out is what is supposed to happen in a two-party system.

And YES, it would have been lovely if the Democrats had done their jobs and held the Bush folk accountable for everything you mentioned. I am not sure why they didn't, which leads to the suspicion of cronyism and corruption.

My two cents. Yours may vary.

[Octafish]

9. Integrity.

It has to do with all of the items on your list because a person can TALK all day long and not DO a darn thing about them.

[pengu]

10. We don't care about Benghazi, it's bullshit

We do care about Iraq, war in Libya, pushing for war in Syria, a coup in Honduras, and bellicose rhetoric towards Iran.

And we've cared about those for a long time. A great many of us were at the Iraq war protests.

[krawhitham]

61. bingo

[cali]

11. Progressives have always been concerned about transparency.

And hill supporters look silly lecturing the rest of us about Iraq.

[Bob41213]

13. You beat me to this post...

Transparency......

[cali]

14. Oh, it's worth saving over and over.

[MariaThinks]

44. people who call other people silly and use words like embarrassing

should look in the mirror.

I've read your stuff, some of it is actually good, but some is terrible. I think dialogue should be encouraged and attacking people the way you're doing is nasty and mean spirited.

[riderinthestorm]

72. You've been here 5 months and have 4 hides. Cali's been here 12 years and has 2 hides

Someone should be looking in the mirror @ being nasty and it's not cali

[MariaThinks]

76. Give me a break. People are hiding for all sorts of reasons

[QC]

15. Anybody else surprised at how unimportant election integrity

and freedom of information/transparency are to Clintonites?

We used to care a lot about such issues around here--back when we actually discussed issues.

[cali]

17. No.

[QC]

18. Can't say that I'm surprised either. n/t

[frylock]

64. +++

[libtodeath]

81. Wish I could rec this post a thousand times.

[cali]

16. No one has said it's the biggest fp blunder of all time.

[Aerows]

19. I was concerned enough about it in 2006

to write to Patrick Leahy regarding activity that took place under Bush/Cheney, so not a single person should be surprised that I'm just as concerned about it now.

But do throw out accusations that nobody ever took any of this seriously before now, maybe that will make it less serious.

I am quite certain that floating around somewhere in my own email and in different places that I posted my inquiry you can find records of exactly what I wrote. Some of us apparently keep better records than others, even if we are just private citizens.

It seems some of our public servants could learn from such examples.

[840high]

20. Not sudden at all. More than

1 issue can be important.

[Dem2]

22. They don't actually care - it's just a fun line of attack that annoys Hillary supporters

And it's a hopeful way to get a 2nd place finisher into the nomination, disqualify the one who's earned the majority of the votes thus far.

[MariaThinks]

45. Notice the responses in this thread - how dare I even suggest this.

[Dem2]

52. Internet made an angry

that never happens, right?

They say if you're getting inflammatory responses, you're doing something right. Lol.

[MariaThinks]

53. i must be doing a lot right lately!

[Beacool]

23. That's because GDP is a mirror image of the Freepers when it comes to attacking the Clintons.

They even compare in the way that they attack them, similar talking points.

Therefore, I don't really care what either side thinks of Hillary, or Bill for that matter.

[cali]

36. You guys are woefully unprepared for the reality of the general election

[MariaThinks]

46. Sadly, i've noticed that.

[Tarc]

24. Oh I've said this for ages; Berniefans don't have the slightest interest in e-mail security

This is a convenient political football for them, nothing more.

[cali]

38. It's about transparency and her penchant for secrecy for me

[MariaThinks]

47. it sounds like when the republicans would sadly nod their heads and say benghazi whenever they

wanted to slander Hillary. That line of attack is gone so it's all emails now.

[NightWatcher]

25. It's that she's under investigation and might be charged with a crime.

Hillary's biggest weakness is that people see her as dishonest.

Now she's under investigation for lying and attempting to mislead.

Do you see the problem there?

[MariaThinks]

48. People see her as dishonest because of hundreds of millions of dollars of ads against her

in all her time serving the public.

[Throd]

56. I think it was the million and millions in Wall Street bribes...er...speaking fees.

[MariaThinks]

60. there it is right there - the innuendo. Speaking fees are not bribes

you may not like it and that's fine. don't vote for her.

But to spread rumors of bribes is wrong.

[Throd]

63. Call them whatever you want. People that give you $250,000 expect a return on their investment.

[MariaThinks]

65. my point is made

[Throd]

69. Are you sure that point helps?

[frylock]

66. Well, that and all her dishonesty.

[dchill]

27. Neither progressives nor whatever you consider yourselves...

in Hillary's camp should ever have to be concerned about secure State Department emails. But there it is. Spectacularly flawed logic maims this OP.

[4139]

28. Good government, government in the sunshine has always been important!

[Fawke Em]

30. I have worked in cyber security for 10 years.

I've been a Democrat for 28 years.

Is that too sudden for you?

BTW, I can also walk and chew gum. I can be concerned with good-paying jobs, climate change, healthcare, etc. and still not want the person who may or may not lead on those policy goals (IMHO, she won't do much on those, btw) to not be a criminal who makes poor decisions.

[Demsrule86]

31. Bernie Supporters got nothing else.

She is a liberal. And is better on women's issue, guns and honestly most liberal issues...all he ever talks about is banks.

[Fawke Em]

37. LMAO!

No. She is not a liberal stalwart.

And he talks about a lot of things. That you aren't listening is on you.

BTW, she isn't better on women's issues unless you're a wealthy woman.

[MariaThinks]

49. that's what i say.

[alcibiades_mystery]

34. A true clown show

Some of these people are shameless

[lagomorph777]

35. If the e-mail coverup takes out the Dem potential nominee, none of that other stuff will happen.

And if the dem nominee is HRC and she manages to squeak out a GE win, only some of that will happen. For example "fairness in elections" does not appear to be something she would favor.

[The_Casual_Observer]

39. No surprise they want Hillary in jail

It's been this way for years.

[Bad Thoughts]

40. Watergate? Iran-Contra? Transparency? Hello?

You've been around the Democratic Party, I assume.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. You probably do not understand the intersectionality

of national security and jobs, as well as the big one in that list.. CIMATE CHANGE.

You might want to study how climate change was partly, and in large part, responsible for Syria.

[Vinca]

51. We can't run a weakened candidate in the general election or we lose.

[Press Virginia]

54. I'm more surprised that the Bush Admin has become the standard by

which HRC is to be judged.

[frylock]

67. I guess that Nader really wasn't too far off the mark after all.

[phleshdef]

55. My worry is that the public perception is way too damaging at this point...

I really don't think she did anything terrible or intentionally wrong. But at the end of the day, we have to keep the White House and this is starting to become very damaging, whether its fair or not.

[frylock]

62. I think reality is starting to sink in for Hillary Supporter.

drip drip drip

[HumanityExperiment]

68. ...trust...

HRC lacks it, this is clearly and strongly shown in polls

Feel free to add that to your 'list'

[Attorney in Texas]

70. I bitched about Bush-Cheney violating the FOIA by using private email, I bitched about Rick Perry

violating the FOIA by using private email, but I should drop those concerns when Hillary actually moves a step further away from compliance with FOIA than what Bush, Cheney, and Perry did.

If only we had a word for someone whose values were as flexible as you want them to be.

[Gothmog]

71. It is indeed amusing

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

73. Hillary thought it important when she condemned Snowden and backed the NSA.

[riderinthestorm]

74. It's only a surprise to you. There's a lot of us who've been paying attention for many years nt

[Bettie]

75. Female Rights?

The only people I know who talk about feminism or Women's Rights as "Female Rights" are right wingers.

As to national security, most of us are interested in it as well as the other issues on your little list.

One can be concerned about more than one issue.

Benghazi is a red herring. That is one situation where Clinton is not at all at fault. Bad things happen sometimes.

[CorkySt.Clair]

77. DU rec

Based on some of the bleating in this thread, it hit the mark. Well done.

[MariaThinks]

78. i try to speak the thoughtful truth

[hobbit709]

80. More like openness and evidence of bad judgment.

[BillZBubb]

82. Maria, you need to do more thinking. Seriously.

I am glad you agree that Iraq, WHICH Hillary SUPPORTED, was the biggest foreign policy blunder of all time. At least you are making progress.

[Jim Lane]

83. I'm more surprised at how suddenly UNIMPORTANT single-payer is to progressives.

In fact, some soi-disant progressives have gone beyond downplaying it and now actively oppose it.

Funny that.