How soon Hillary supporters forget PUMAs in 2008.................

[Logical]

They act like Bernie supporters being upset is a SHOCK and TERRIBLE. They did the SAME THING in 2008!

QUIT WHINING!

http://www.salon.com/2008/06/23/pumas/

If you’re a dedicated Democrat — or perhaps even one of those fed-up Republicans we’ve heard about — there’s a good chance you’re pretty stoked right about now. After a grueling but thrilling primary contest, we at last have decided on a history-making, barrier-breaking Democratic presidential candidate. You’re excited! You’re inspired! You’re ready to hit rural Ohio with enough campaign literature to choke a wavering independent!

But why do you keep hearing all these stories about grumpy old ladies still hung up on Hillary Clinton, the ones who’re threatening to make a scene at the Democratic convention in Denver, or vote for John McCain in November?

To be fair, it’s not just women. There are plenty of Clinton supporters of every demographic description who are still ticked. But yes, it’s true that the Clinton base skewed female, and that women over 30 are the most vocal of the malcontents. Some of them are calling themselves “PUMAs” (as in “Party Unity My Ass”), an acronym that makes them sound, appropriately enough, like cougars in a very bad mood. Who are these women, and why are they such buzzkills?

Remember that classic of pop-psychological cheese, “Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus”? This offensive but rhetorically useful book (yes, I’m invoking it; address your letters of complaint to [email protected]) states that often, in conflict, women simply want to be heard. They want to air their grievances and let their opponents know where they’re coming from. Now the Democratic Party is moving forward, as it must, but it is doing so without giving the Clinton women a real hearing — without letting them vent their anger. It is the social equivalent of talking over them, waving off their complaints, assuming they’ll come around. This is a mistake. This is only making things worse (even if, as Walter Shapiro notes, history says they will come around, no matter how many PUMA T-shirts and Web sites like this one may be sprouting now).

Here are the bullet points, more details at the link:

1. They are angry because their candidate lost a close contest.
2. They are angry because their historic opportunity is over.
3. They are angry about rumors that Obama may choose a woman other than Hillary Clinton as his running mate.
4. They are angry that we started to talk about sexism only once Clinton stopped being a threat.
5. They are angry at the media’s repeated denial of sexism, and they are angry at Keith Olbermann.
6. They are mad at Howard Dean.
7. They are mad at Barack Obama.
8. They are mad at Bill Clinton. Um, obviously.
9. They are mad at Mark Penn.
10. They are mad at Hillary Clinton for conceding and not taking their fight on to Denver.
11. They are mad that everyone believes them to be old, white and racist. They are mad at the people they thought were supposed to be progressives for treating them badly.
12. And finally, they are angry because they feel they are held hostage by the party by their reproductive organs.

[Proud Public Servant]

1. PUMAs were a tiny, tiny minority

of Hillary supporters, and their petulance was inconsequential.

I suspect Bernie or Bust types will be the same.

As always, I say this as a Bernie supporter.

[TheBlackAdder]

12. HRC boasted that 40% of her supporters would not vote for Obama.

.


Look at her face after she says that...

.

[Proud Public Servant]

21. So there are three possibilities

1) She overestimated her personal popularity; or

2) She was right, and did the hard work of bringing those people back into the fold; or

3) What people say the'll do in the heat of a passionate primary is different from what they will actually do in November.

Any of those is a lesson for Bernie and his supporters.

[TheBlackAdder]

26. The lesson is, this whole PUMA thing is bullshit when it comes time to vote in November.

.


People who are assholic enough not to vote are generally a constant across elections, as there will always be people who can't let go and hold sour grapes. This spans both parties, so while there is a subset of assholes Dems who won't vote, there is a subset of asshole (redundant?) Reps who won't vote either.

Most regain their senses, and this whole panic thing stems from people temporarily losing their collective shit.


.

[JTFrog]

2. Talk about a load of sexist crap.

Why in the fuck would you post that here? Is that really the picture you want to paint of yourself? After all the complaining about "BernieBros" not being sexist or misogynistic.

Yeah, you go with this.

But yes, it’s true that the Clinton base skewed female, and that women over 30 are the most vocal of the malcontents. Some of them are calling themselves “PUMAs” (as in “Party Unity My Ass”), an acronym that makes them sound, appropriately enough, like cougars in a very bad mood. Who are these women, and why are they such buzzkills?

Remember that classic of pop-psychological cheese, “Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus”? This offensive but rhetorically useful book (yes, I’m invoking it; address your letters of complaint to [email protected]) states that often, in conflict, women simply want to be heard.

[Logical]

5. LOL, most "sexist" Bernie supporters LOVE Warren. Get it yet? It is not sex.

[JTFrog]

8. Yea, we've all heard that bullshit before too.

She was already thrown under the bus here for not endorsing Bernie. You should keep those memes straight.

[Logical]

22. LOL, hill supporters whining about anything is so funny. nt

[vintx]

28. +1

The irony is so rich

[Trust Buster]

3. They're threatening people's lives now. The comparison is becoming increasingly false.

[TomCADem]

4. The Difference is PUMA Supporters Were Angry at Obama

Some PUMA supporters even flirted with voting for McCain until he picked Sarah Palin. However, Hillary did not suddenly try to throw the entire party under the bus. The big difference is that Hillary at the time knew that Obama could lose, so she was not going to burn the party down behind her by attacking it as corrupt or going "anti-Establishment." Bernie feels no such restraint, because this is probably his last and only run, which explains the attacks on everyone and everything.

Put another way, Hillary and her supporters had a vested interest in the Democratic party. Bernie doesn't because he see a lot of his base as coming outside of the party.

[Logical]

6. What a load of crap! nt

[TomCADem]

13. Hillary Was Not Interested In Running For President Again after 2008?

I beg to differ.

[Logical]

33. She wants to be president more than anything. Not for the country, but for her. nt

[NCTraveler]

7. So it's the same.

Then you know that Clinton supporters showed up for Obama. Great point and one we have been making.

We joined together in the end and Obama won big.

[joshcryer]

9. I find PUMA behavior unbecoming of DUers.

It's unlikely that BOBers will rally around Sanders as he supports the nominee, like the PUMAs did Clinton as she graciously bowed out and busted her ass for Obama. It will be not only an indictment on Sanders, but showing a truth of where Sanders "supporters" really stand. Against Clinton, not for Sanders. Sanders was and is their prop, and that's the true indicator of how deep their support for Sanders goes. A mile wide and an inch deep.

When there were rumors (rumors, mind you), that Clinton was going to contest the convention, DU was rightly up in arms. When Clinton came out in absolute support of Obama, released her delegates (Sanders probably won't do that), and nominated Obama by acclamation (Sanders certainly won't do that), the DU fed by rumors about Clinton's strategy couldn't believe it and was silenced completely and utterly. Skinner said they banned only 4 or so PUMAs back then. That's how quickly Clinton supporters "fell in line."

It won't be that way this go around.

[hobbit709]

11. The irony of your statement escapes you.

[joshcryer]

14. What irony?

[hobbit709]

15. your posts back in 2008.

[joshcryer]

16. Where I defended the seating of MI and FL delegates?

Where I defended the mandate along with Krugman and others?

I caucused for Edwards.

I supported the nominee and was against the idiotic PUMAs.

[hobbit709]

20. More like the one where you lambasted Clinton.

[joshcryer]

24. I've lambasted Clinton THIS cycle.

On a host of issues.

I actually defended Clinton a bit back then. I thought the sniper story and how people were freaking out about her gun story was stupid as hell. If I recall correctly the sniper story she was moved to the cockpit because it had more armor there so she made up her own version of events. And her dad showing her how to use a gun, my oh my, that was such a controversy here. (I don't even think she said she shot the gun, just that he showed her how to use it, like, you know, responsible gun owners do with their kids.)

[Bluenorthwest]

30. She said they shot ducks. Not just shot guns but hunted ducks. And not as a kid with Dad....

"I've hunted. My father taught me how to hunt. I went duck hunting in Arkansas. I remember standing in that cold water, so cold, at first light. I was with a bunch of my friends, all men. The sun's up, the ducks are flying and they are playing a trick on me. They said, 'we're not going to shoot, you shoot.' They wanted to embarrass me. The pressure was on. So I shot, and I shot a banded duck and they were surprised as I was."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/clintons-hunting-history/

She shot a duck to impress some people as an adult and then she boasted about it. I like ducks so it stuck with me. Her affectation this year is that she's very anti gun and not a duck hunter and boaster of kills. I could respect either position but not the attempt to hold both.

[joshcryer]

31. Well, I don't remember, I just thought it was such low hanging fruit.

Either way I don't care. The politics of the personal are pathetic.

[passiveporcupine]

35. Instead of telling us what Sanders and his supporters will do

You have absolutely no idea...you are projecting your assumptions as facts.

You should stick to what your candidate and her supporters will do.

You don't know Bernie and you don't know us, so please stop saying what we will or will not do.

Thanks!

[joshcryer]

36. Just wait and see.

[hobbit709]

10. How soon some of the most ardent HRC supporters here forget how much they hated her in 2008.

[Pisces]

25. I don't forget. I can still get just as angry about many of her comments and tactics. However,

I know that she is the most qualified for the job. I know that middle America is not going to vote in
A self described socialist ( doesn't matter that he is a democratic socialist. Nuance doesn't work)

I don't have the passion and enthusiasm I had in 2008, but I do have a sense of disgust that Republicans would put up a completely unqualified candidate. There is no choice in this election.
Bernie can not win at this point, people can still cast their votes and he can stay to the bitter end, he still has zero chance to get the Supers on his side.

All this I say with the memory of how angry I was with her in '08. I will be voting for Hillary, I will not be crying at her inauguration like I did for Obama.

[Sparkly]

17. Wasn't she ahead in the popular vote?

Arguably, that could be seen as the will of the people.

The delegate counts were close, too.

And still, she conceded graciously and supported President Obama.

[seabeyond]

18. PUMA of 2016. I didnt pay attention PUMA of 2008. It didn't affect the election. Same with PUMA 2016

[hrmjustin]

19. In real life I have not met one Sanders supporter who would not vote for Hillary.

Most of my friends are Sanders supporters and there is a wide range of feelings about Hillary but they all say they will vote for her in the fall.

[Logical]

23. Neither have I in person. I will vote against any GOP idiot. If that means voting for Hillary....

then of course I will.

[JoePhilly]

29. Same.

[procon]

27. You forgot to add that most of her supporters still voted for Obama.

Just like in 2008, the temper tantrums will fade, and if there is any comparison to be found between then and now, can we can also expect to see 81% of Sanders fans vote for her?

[JCMach1]

32. And there were a lot of people around (DU especially) who supported Clinton who told those people

to STFU...

Either that, or we ignored them as 'noise'... which is what they turned out to be.



Full disclosure, I have remained 'Undecided' this cycle...

[silvershadow]

34. They are insufferable. nt