2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary doesn't need or want Bernie's supporters votes in the general election.
Last edited Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:02 AM - Edit history (1)
Do What You Want: An Open Letter to the Bernie or Bust Movement on Behalf of the Democratic Party
Trevor LaFauci April 25, 2016
Dear Friends,
Over the past month, you've been in the news quite often for your political stance in which you've stated that the only candidate you will support this election cycle is Senator Bernie Sanders. This stance has drawn a range of reactions from people like Huffington Post's H. A. Goodman that support your dedication to your candidate to those like political comedian Bill Maher who have advised you to "not be assholes." Despite Bernie Sanders' recent willingness to support Hillary Clinton as the Democratic nominee if certain conditions are met, a number of you have continued your stance to support Sanders and Sanders alone. Polls have come out showing that you represent one-quarter of Senator Sanders' supporters. If we were to extrapolate that number out, it would mean over 2 million Democratic voters would be sitting out the 2016 general election, potentially creating an extremely close race or even a Republican victory. With so much at stake, you all are probably tired of all the advice you've been given so I'll do my best to cut to the heart of what I'd like you to know:
The Democratic Party doesn't want or need your vote.
....
Sincerely,
Folks Who Have Seen Your Kind Before
Like I was saying.
edited to add: HRC and her supporters are saying and acting as if they don't want my vote. I've never said I won't vote for HRC or "Bernie or Bust", but I understand that point of view on a personal level. When HRC blows off any Bernie supporter, they they are blowing me off, too.
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)That makes it really clear.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)emulatorloo
(44,063 posts)Just cuz an asshole posts an 'open letter' doesn't make him a spokesman for the party.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)And gleefully posted here by Hillary supporters over and over and over.
Now its just an asshole blogger?
Uh huh.
Why do Hillary supporters demand Bernie "control" his supporters but this gets a pass? Because there's a large swath of Hillary supporters who agree with this.
emulatorloo
(44,063 posts)He's an asshole just like that blogger.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Brock and his minions at TPR have been Hillarys propaganda outlet from day 1. They've pushed all of Hillary's talking points attacking Bernie - sexist, racist, angry etc.
This is as close as it gets to Hillary herself.
Amazing you've missed this all these months.
emulatorloo
(44,063 posts)I said 'Trevor LaFauchi' is full of shit. And that Bernie supporters should take it for what it is. A piece of crap. You want to attack me for that? Ok.
Never followed that site. But easy to spot an asshole blogger. Why should anybody give a fuck about his bullshit?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)emulatorloo
(44,063 posts)He is full of shit.
Do you and I disagree that the blogger is full of shit? More likely than not we agree. We agree on lots of things.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Sorry.. Either DU is also full of asshole bloggers, or this is indeed a talking point and those originate somewhere due to the level of coordination for months now.
Incidentally this is how mass propaganda works. And further I had a long post warning supporters to be careful of what they wished, because they might just get it. This was over 5 months ago.
So enjoy...I will not say who I will pretend to vote because it is nobody's business, but this is one hell of a potential self inflicted wound. Myself I intend to buy some popcorn for November
emulatorloo
(44,063 posts)I'm not clear what you mean you say I should "enjoy"? What am I supposed to enjoy?
Yeah I have read lots of bullshit on DU as well. I suppose that is "enjoyable" as somebody who has an interest in the dissemination of propaganda. Intersesting to study yes. But I personally cant take any pleasure in it. It is sad.
And yeah lots of popcorn for November!
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)NT
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...who says or does something nasty on his behalf; but Hillary does not have to answer for an "asshole blogger" who posts on a forum run by her good buddy David Brock.
mkay...
emulatorloo
(44,063 posts)ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...saying:
Just cuz an asshole posts an 'open letter' doesn't make him a spokesman for the party."
Yet we are bombarded daily with tales of all the nasty BernieBros out there in the InterWebz, who are so so mean and nasty and misogynistic and why, oh why doesn't Bernie rein them in?
Get back to me when you post the same response to those as you did here. Then maybe we can talk.
TTFN
emulatorloo
(44,063 posts)Look I'm done. I trash the guy and say he's full of shit. He's full of shit. He's worthy of nothing but dismissal.
Carry on. If you need to argue with somebody, find someone who thinks the guy isn't full of shit.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)which are supposedly the majority of Sanders supporters.
Team Clinton can't have it both ways. Either they're random assholes to be dismissed, or BernieBros are.
emulatorloo
(44,063 posts)Kittycat
(10,493 posts)Signed a 12 year DU member and 41yo mom, community volunteer, former PctCommiteeman. Now just a rabid, far-left teapartier and BernieBro.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)why should you then pay them any attention?
That is the stupidity of Bernie or Bust. It automatically makes those declaring such irrelevant.
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)How to make yourself irrelevant.
Issuing ultimatums is not a mark of maturity in politics.
It is a tendency of Ideologues though.
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)Ok.
karynnj
(59,498 posts)For these people, it might not be possible to sell them on Clinton herself. what it will come down to is that though only Clinton's name is on the ballot -- EVERY ISSUE THEY CARE ABOUT is virtually on the ballot too. On every domestic issue, while there are differences between Sanders and Clinton, they are going in the same direction. Both will do what they can to continue the Obama administration's gains with the Paris climate change, healthcare, minimum wage ... etc EVERY Republican will veto anything in the right direction on these issues. The issue of the Supreme Court is obvious. Personally, both Clintons are not my favorite Democrats, but they are Democrats and they are better than any current Republican on each of these issues.
It might also be that it is too early to make this point. For many, who actually came to think Sanders could win and for whom that is their dream, first they are still fighting as is Sanders. Unlikely does not mean impossible - even as the chance approaches zero. This is not 2008, HRC was much closer, but it is also true that by May, if everything went as predicted, Obama would get more delegates. Yet this was clearly not the time to ask Clinton people to accept Obama. Have patience -- which this year when she is so dominant -- should be easier as Clinton supporters can be very confident she will triumph.
Once Clinton has the majority of the pledged delegates and a week or so have passed, I predict that many Sanders people will admit -- that though they still do not like her -- they will vote for HRC and in many cases work for her election.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)and something tells me I'll have bounced lower by July. I was better off an independent-- I can't help but feel like I'm tacitly enabling the fuckery that Clinton has done by affixing a D to my lapel.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Given what the party's "leadership" has done in the race, when I flip back after the convention, I doubt I'll ever return. I'm a leftist, a progressive, a socialist. This party has made it clear it not only doesn't represent me, it's actually against me.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Nor do you understand that Politics is achieving the possible and not about being an Ideologue.
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)So where's the harm in that? The BOBers have said they don't want to participate.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)...is that she will lose.
If they are so sure that they will win, then sitting out is a win win for the Bernie or Busters. No Trump and no compromised votes.
If they lose, they will talk about the why they couldn't keep Bernie supporters. Party hacks love to talk about losing seats in nonelection years senate/congress votes because liberal sit out.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Clinton has offered nothing in exchange for Sanders supporters votes. And given her strong endorsements of RW policies Sanders supporters strongly oppose, it's unlikely for her to change.
The gulf between Sanders and Clinton is greater than Between Clinton and Republicans. IDK why she doesn't target Rrpublican voters...she wouldn't have to change any platform at all.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Sanders claims 5% economic growth.
The gulf is apparently one of gullibility
Clinton has plenty of policy proposals that move the country in the Progressive direction
Most Sanders supporters can see that.
The Ideologues won't though. Blind partisanship is what it is.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Clinton's status quo equals continued economic stagnation for middle and working classes.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)Thanks for the laughs.
monmouth4
(9,686 posts)over..
TransitJohn
(6,932 posts)Same night. I'm not a big Democratic Party fan. It's a center-right party, and I'm kind of a liberal.
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)I am registered as an Independent. At the March 15 primary, they asked me which ballot I wanted and I said Democratic. I cast my votes in the Democratic primary and walked out still an Independent.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Nuff said?
bigtree
(85,975 posts)...according to the essay.
I feel the same way. These aren't folks who are focused on defeating the republican nominee as much as they're focused on tearing the Democratic party down.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Very useful information going forward.
Jmho of course.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)yourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,167 posts)Some rabid Hillary supporter posted another of his gems here last week under the false label of actually being from the DNC.
Guess what, Trevor, you'll have plenty to cry about later.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Which side are you on?
TheCowsCameHome
(40,167 posts)Trevor (the asshole) said so.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)onecaliberal
(32,777 posts)I can no longer enable or condone what these greedy corporatist third way neodemocrats have done to the country. I have standards and morals. If the Hillary crowd wants to elect trump, they can proceed. I will not be any part of that.
artislife
(9,497 posts)I look at Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell and the rest of my state's Dems and I feel like they are dead to me.
Time to be a thorn in their side
thesquanderer
(11,972 posts)If the Dem party wants to flip congress, it needs every vote it can get. Appealing to people outside your base and thereby potentially flipping seats in areas that are not already solid blue is important. That's what coattails are all about.
Autumn
(44,980 posts)Fuck that banned troll.
BootinUp
(47,078 posts)candidates.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)redgreenandblue
(2,088 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)HassleCat
(6,409 posts)If Hillary loses, or if we shrink our minority party status even further. I'm happy to see you're so confident in Clinton's ability to turn out voters, draw independents, etc.
TransitJohn
(6,932 posts)Of-fucking-COURSE they'll blame the left for the Democratic Party's losses, it's what they DO.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)And they're still blaming Nader for Gore's loss. Can you imagine the fury if Hillary loses?
WhiteTara
(29,692 posts)I would blame him. But, I feel sure that he will help heal the party and bring his supporters to vote Democratic in November.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)Not all his supporters are Democrats, so they owe nothing to the party. When Bernie asks his independent and moderate Republican supporters to vote for Clinton, some will and some won't. He will be blamed for whatever happens.
WhiteTara
(29,692 posts)if he keeps on saying what a shit party it is and discourages his supporters, there might be some blowback. You know? I understand that saying if the GOP gets into the WH, there will be a meltdown of our society isn't the only thing we need to consider, but it sure is important.
no_hypocrisy
(46,020 posts)RandySF
(58,477 posts)Everyone participating in the primaries knows what's at stake in November. And if they're determined to sit on their hands, there's nothing that's going to change their minds.
Matt_in_STL
(1,446 posts)RandySF
(58,477 posts)But I was also trying to rid people of the delusion that Bernie still had a reasonable path to the nomination.
LuvLoogie
(6,913 posts)You guys are hooked on those persecution endorphins.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Strike Three: Feds Catch Bernie with $10 Million in Mystery Campaign Donations
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511654302
Sanders' campaign to be what some critics have long considered it to be: a farce...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511671630
The Cult of Bernie
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511722224
So it's 'some guy' who is habitually cited by Camp Clinton, regularly mocked by anyone else on DU, the blog owner has been banned from DU as a troll more than once, but Camp Clinton loves that guy.
LuvLoogie
(6,913 posts)to appeal to as wide an array of Americans as possible without bringing on anti-social groups/individuals. I support Hillary Clinton, and I look forward to voting for her.
Who knows how she is going to reach out to Bernie and his supporters? I don't see her bending over backwards. The train is leaving the station at some point, and she's not the one driving the train. The Constitution is driving that train. November waits for nobody.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,167 posts)they wish they had the balls to write it themselves.
Persecution, my ass.
LuvLoogie
(6,913 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,167 posts)BootinUp
(47,078 posts)are pimping it.
artislife
(9,497 posts)They just are not going to vote for that woman.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Don't need the vote.
karynnj
(59,498 posts)I had never heard his name before so I searched for it to see if he was - heaven forbid - a HRC spokesperson. What I found - that came up from linked In is:
Trevor LaFauci · 2d
I currently am assisting a start-up nonprofit that is working to engage millennials in the political process. I am contributing periodic articles about this current election cycle as well as purusing various avenues to disseminate news including
This is HILARIOUS. He is assisting a start up wanting to engage millennials by telling what he estimates to be as many as 2 million to get lost. Note that this genius does this after HRC spoke of how the Sanders and Clinton people have far more in common and a lot of difference with the Republicans.
Anyone who has become invested in any campaign understands that, in addition to any misgivings they have on the likely nominee, there is a period of grief at the loss of the hope/dream of your candidate. Certainly the Clinton supporters, who supported her in 2008, remember the disappointment of seeing their dream die. At least in NJ, where I phonebanked for Obama in the primary, there were very many who responded they wanted both -- and a Clinton/Obama ticket was seen as the best way to get that. (There were enough such calls that many of us tried to develop a coherent response to win that vote - that was at that point going to Clinton.) I think more Clinton 2008 people were positive about Obama (though preferring her) than Sanders 2016 people are about Clinton.
However, what it will come down to is that though only Clinton's name is on the ballot -- EVERY ISSUE THEY CARE ABOUT is virtually on the ballot too. On every domestic issue, while there are differences between Sanders and Clinton, they are going in the same direction. Both will do what they can to continue the Obama administration's gains with the Paris climate change, healthcare, minimum wage ... etc EVERY Republican will veto anything in the right direction on these issues. The issue of the Supreme Court is obvious. Personally, both Clintons are not my favorite Democrats, but they are Democrats and they are better than any current Republican on each of these issues.
Back to the quote, I wonder if one of the avenues he is "purusing" is posting at DU.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...could cause a Republican victory and then that the Democratic Party doesn't need the votes of potential non-voters.
It's one or the other.
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)athena
(4,187 posts)Fortunately, this time around, it looks like there will be enough smart people voting on election day to ensure that those who are trying to sabotage the democratic process by staying home will be unable to succeed in messing things up for everyone else.
TransitJohn
(6,932 posts)Not likely Democratic to begin with, simply voters that Bernie energized.
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)Lodestar
(2,388 posts)randr
(12,409 posts)One more reason to vote my conscience.
Hekate
(90,552 posts)....reinforcing their own hatred of the Democratic Party and its frontrunner.
Whatever floats your boat, so to speak.
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)It's always been there in nuance.
Hekate
(90,552 posts)I swear it's like trying to communicate with teenagers.
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)tonyt53
(5,737 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)BigMin28
(1,174 posts)doesn't need or want our vote, but the are salivating at the thought on getting Bernie's donor and email list.
If they don't need us, why would they want the list?
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)beedle
(1,235 posts)... and it's not progressives, it's the corporations.
If Bernie supporters are not needed, then fine, don't be asking for our support, and don't get all pissy when we don't give it to you.
If there ever was a case of 'dost protest too much', this has to be one of the most obvious.
So what is it? Are we 'electing Trump'? Or are we just 'meaningless protest voters that don't matter in the GE'? Pick one of those mutually exclusive claims and then act consistently ... oh, right, I'm talking to Clinton supporters, consistency is not one of their strong suites.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)athena
(4,187 posts)It says so much of what I've been thinking in the last few days. So many times, I've argued with Sanders supporters threatening to stay home on election day. So many times, trying patiently to reason with them, I've been confronted with one illogical Sanders-supporter debate tactic after another. So many times, I've wanted to say, "You know what, Hillary doesn't need your vote. Fortunately, there are enough smart people in this country that she will easily win without your vote."
If you've read that article in its entirety and are still threatening to stay home on election day, please, just stay home. If you think your decision to stay home is interesting, you're wrong. It's the most boring, the most passive, and the most intellectually lazy decision anyone could make. And it's nothing we haven't seen before.
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)athena
(4,187 posts)It's amusing that you should be complimenting others on their honesty when you began this whole thing with a dishonest statement.
There is a big difference between Hillary and her supporters. You attributed Hillary's supporters' feelings to Hillary herself. And you did it knowingly, thinking you were hurting Hillary by doing so. As so often happens with these things, you ended up shooting yourself in the foot by alerting Hillary supporters to a wonderful article by one of their own. It feels great to read one's feelings expressed so eloquently.
From now on, whenever I see a Bernie supporter on DU threatening not to vote in the general election for Hillary, I will simply post your article and quote from it. It will save me so much time not to have to put it all into my own words.
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)He's not making the case that Hillary needs and wants our votes, but he doesn't.
So say it loud and say it proud, "Democrats don't need or want Bernie supporters' votes."
athena
(4,187 posts)Show me where it says anything about what Hillary herself says or wants.
I've said it before, and I will say it again. If you are going to go around threatening not to vote for Hillary on election day, just don't vote. No one wants to hear your threats, and no one cares whether you vote or not. In fact, making threats about not voting revels such a lack of political sophistication that the person making such threats would probably not have voted in the first place.
I have done a huge amount of phone banking and canvassing. I know the typical Democratic voter. I have met people who work three jobs and simply can't make it to the polls. I have met senior citizens living in trailer parks who invited me into their homes to warm up an hour before polls closed on election day and told me proudly that they had gone out to vote. I have met one very ill senior citizen in a trailer who cried when she saw me because she couldn't vote.
So go on, keep threatening not to vote, or bragging about how you're not going to vote. It says more about you than it does about Hillary or anyone else.
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)And neither will I tell anyone to stop saying their won't vote for Hillary. They should say it as much as they want to just as you can say you will. I hope its said loudly and clearly so that you are reminded of votes you didn't have.
The decision not to vote is just as valid an expression of that citizen's will as the decision to vote for a candidate.
athena
(4,187 posts)It says "Hillary doesn't need or want your vote". That is not the title of the article you posted. Indeed, there is nothing in the article about what Hillary herself wants. There is no way you know personally what Hillary wants. So your OP is dishonest.
And it's amusing to see yet another typical Bernie-supporter tactic in your post: putting words into a Hillary supporter's mouth. I never told you to stop saying you won't vote for Hillary. Quite the contrary. As I said before, you should feel free to say it as much as you want. Scream it from the rooftops if you will. It's always good to let people know what kind of person they are dealing with. So please, go on. Respond to this post, defending your determination not to vote in the general election for Hillary. Make a new thread if you wish, threatening not to vote for Hillary. As the article you posted says, do what you want.
By the way, your vote is not a vote I will not have. For one thing, I am not the one running for president. For another, I don't think you would have voted at all. It's easy to post on the internet. It takes a very politically motivated kind of person to actually go out and vote. I will get Hillary thousands of votes this election season by making calls and knocking on doors. In fact, that's what I did last night. I really couldn't care less about the vote of any Bernie supporter on DU who threatens or brags about not voting for Hillary. Those votes never existed in the first place. And as I said before, such statements accomplish only one thing, and that is reveal the political lack of sophistication of the poster.
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)You're a phone banker and you think you can tell from what I wrote whether I would have voted for all.
For the sake of the Democrats you seek to help I implore you to stop phone banking because I'm pretty sure you're screwing it up.
athena
(4,187 posts)"Hillary doesn't need or want your vote" does not imply anything about Hillary's wishes?
You clearly know nothing about campaigning. Let me tell you some very basic things about it. When you volunteer for a campaign, making phone calls or knocking on doors, you are told simply to make contact with committed voters. You are specifically told not to waste time arguing or trying to change anyone's mind. If someone tells you they're voting for Trump or Bernie, you wish them a nice day, mark them as a Trump/Bernie supporter, and move on to the next person on your list. The campaign does not waste further resources on that person. As the campaign progresses, your list contains fewer and fewer people who are not already supporting your candidate. So, telling people that you don't support Hillary and won't be voting for her tells them that they shouldn't waste any further time on you. The article you objected to is therefore totally on the mark. If anything, it's being kind by explaining to you something you would have known already if you were more politically active.
And you are exactly right that I am doing something that the campaign would advise strongly against: don't waste time arguing with people. And that is precisely what I will do now. This was enjoyable, but it's now time to move on to other and better things. Have a nice day.
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)But I will be going to the polls to write in Bernie Sanders. When you see those Bernie votes I want you to remember that I was one of the voters you told to fuck off.
JeffHead
(1,186 posts)That makes my decision a lot easier.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)Especially since I live in a deeply red state, I can vote however I want with Hillary's blessing.